fao Julie H

[RedM]

1 hour ago, BCFC11 said:

So why do the club have to pay these OTT policing costs if a) They are nowhere to be seen inside the stadium when it all kicked off, despite being warned/all over social media leading up to the game that trouble was likely? b) It’s the club’s decision whether or not to hold the away fans back or not? Surely they should be overruling whoever’s decision it was to let them leave at the same time.

And any extra money we have made from selling those extra tickets has probably gone on the police bill and no doubt the fine we will get for not controlling fans.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's happened and it's bad. We'll have to take it on the chin.

What is now VERY important is that lessons are learnt and are learnt quickly for five reasons.

1) Wolves at home 17th February (though it could be Shrewsbury still which solves a problem). Unless there are pressing reasons, don't away sides get 15% of allocation in FA Cup which is about 4k away fans...challenging!

2) Birmingham at home on 26th Feb is it. Now they certainly aren't the worst and it's a Tuesday isn't it? That'll help.

However if in a playoff push still, they'll bring a decent following, but if they've been docked 12-15 pts over FFP they maybe in quite volatile mood?

3) Leeds at home. 3pm kickoff, will fill whatever allocation they get. Both teams riding quite high but SL's call for a points deduction in the mind.

4) WBA at home on a Tuesday night in April I believe it is. Now not a lot wrong with WBA fans but they'll bring a big following- that alone should have people on alert.

5) Derby at home final home game of the season, penultimate game for both. Shaping up to be a major game in the playoff race, 3pm kickoff isn't it- Derby surely bring a big away allocation for that. 

Therefore for varying reasons, club and police will need to be across each of these games. Need to put proper plans into place etc.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Jebus, this  thread is like stepping back into a time warp and so many prejudices and fear are on display it's untrue. Balme police, blame ANYONE because it wasnt us etc.

Simple facts here is that the toxic tribal football mentality hasnt been rid. People still want to evoke the 'glory' days of the 1970's and 1980's and want to 'defend' our terf against the Jack Army.

It's depressing that so many go 'ooh there will be trouble, forgetting there has to be two sides to have trouble. and  playing silly buggers over a game of football, is both ridiculous and utterly stupid.

But 'we' won, or our crew or whatever needed to have the once over? Did they heck as like

4 Police Officers, 1 Police Horse and 1 Police Dog, got injured because of idiots being idiots. Instead of engaging in the same behaviour, condoning it or blaming the Police, perhaps we should look closer to home and look at why so many want to cause aggro?

We're saints? No, no we're not. Crews across the country still rate us as 'handy' in some kind of horrible version of fight club that has gone horribly wrong.

Football is a game, to be watched and enjoyed. Not a battle ground to wage war (whichever war it's about see Red Star Belgrade, Egypt, Span and the rest if you want to do the history) because people want a ruck.

Dont entertain or big up the twonks involved and guess what they go away as there's no attention ( proven lots) however we still as a club still seem keen to blame ourselves. Some of the Combat 21 leaders were from city and I've heard everything from No surrender to the IRA and more and seen all kinds of crap from our fans. Perhaps you know we're part of the problem as well.

Whatever your thoughts. We definitely should not be blaming others because we are still neanderthals who have never grown in 40 odd years. It's a game. It;s that simple.  Why treat it as anything else?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Jebus, this  thread is like stepping back into a time warp and so many prejudices and fear are on display it's untrue. Balme police, blame ANYONE because it wasnt us etc.

Simple facts here is that the toxic tribal football mentality hasnt been rid. People still want to evoke the 'glory' days of the 1970's and 1980's and want to 'defend' our terf against the Jack Army.

It's depressing that so many go 'ooh there will be trouble, forgetting there has to be two sides to have trouble. and  playing silly buggers over a game of football, is both ridiculous and utterly stupid.

But 'we' won, or our crew or whatever needed to have the once over? Did they heck as like

4 Police Officers, 1 Police Horse and 1 Police Dog, got injured because of idiots being idiots. Instead of engaging in the same behaviour, condoning it or blaming the Police, perhaps we should look closer to home and look at why so many want to cause aggro?

We're saints? No, no we're not. Crews across the country still rate us as 'handy' in some kind of horrible version of fight club that has gone horribly wrong.

Football is a game, to be watched and enjoyed. Not a battle ground to wage war (whichever war it's about see Red Star Belgrade, Egypt, Span and the rest if you want to do the history) because people want a ruck.

Dont entertain or big up the twonks involved and guess what they go away as there's no attention ( proven lots) however we still as a club still seem keen to blame ourselves. Some of the Combat 21 leaders were from city and I've heard everything from No surrender to the IRA and more and seen all kinds of crap from our fans. Perhaps you know we're part of the problem as well.

Whatever your thoughts. We definitely should not be blaming others because we are still neanderthals who have never grown in 40 odd years. It's a game. It;s that simple.  Why treat it as anything else?

No need to be quoting "we" as in it is every City fan that gets involved or condones such rubbish. Many fans just go to watch football and enjoy themselves, and yes we have a small percentage of idiots (as do most clubs). 

[reddoh]

42 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Jebus, this  thread is like stepping back into a time warp and so many prejudices and fear are on display it's untrue. Balme police, blame ANYONE because it wasnt us etc.

Simple facts here is that the toxic tribal football mentality hasnt been rid. People still want to evoke the 'glory' days of the 1970's and 1980's and want to 'defend' our terf against the Jack Army.

It's depressing that so many go 'ooh there will be trouble, forgetting there has to be two sides to have trouble. and  playing silly buggers over a game of football, is both ridiculous and utterly stupid.

But 'we' won, or our crew or whatever needed to have the once over? Did they heck as like

4 Police Officers, 1 Police Horse and 1 Police Dog, got injured because of idiots being idiots. Instead of engaging in the same behaviour, condoning it or blaming the Police, perhaps we should look closer to home and look at why so many want to cause aggro?

We're saints? No, no we're not. Crews across the country still rate us as 'handy' in some kind of horrible version of fight club that has gone horribly wrong.

Football is a game, to be watched and enjoyed. Not a battle ground to wage war (whichever war it's about see Red Star Belgrade, Egypt, Span and the rest if you want to do the history) because people want a ruck.

Dont entertain or big up the twonks involved and guess what they go away as there's no attention ( proven lots) however we still as a club still seem keen to blame ourselves. Some of the Combat 21 leaders were from city and I've heard everything from No surrender to the IRA and more and seen all kinds of crap from our fans. Perhaps you know we're part of the problem as well.

Whatever your thoughts. We definitely should not be blaming others because we are still neanderthals who have never grown in 40 odd years. It's a game. It;s that simple.  Why treat it as anything else?

lets do the time warp again.

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's happened and it's bad. We'll have to take it on the chin.

What is now VERY important is that lessons are learnt and are learnt quickly for five reasons.

1) Wolves at home 17th February (though it could be Shrewsbury still which solves a problem). Unless there are pressing reasons, don't away sides get 15% of allocation in FA Cup which is about 4k away fans...challenging!

ONLY after consultation with SAG which involves the Police

2) Birmingham at home on 26th Feb is it. Now they certainly aren't the worst and it's a Tuesday isn't it? That'll help.

It will!

However if in a playoff push still, they'll bring a decent following, but if they've been docked 12-15 pts over FFP they maybe in quite volatile mood?

3) Leeds at home. 3pm kickoff, will fill whatever allocation they get. Both teams riding quite high but SL's call for a points deduction in the mind.

Not making a mess of this is important 

4) WBA at home on a Tuesday night in April I believe it is. Now not a lot wrong with WBA fans but they'll bring a big following- that alone should have people on alert.

They will sell what we give them. We can cap at 2000 which could apply to all clubs after Saturday if control is a problem

5) Derby at home final home game of the season, penultimate game for both. Shaping up to be a major game in the playoff race, 3pm kickoff isn't it- Derby surely bring a big away allocation for that. 

Yep there is a theme here huge games the Police need to be ready as do the club. There will be a lot more!

Therefore for varying reasons, club and police will need to be across each of these games. Need to put proper plans into place etc.

YEP not ******* it up is important!

 

 

 

 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Jebus, this  thread is like stepping back into a time warp and so many prejudices and fear are on display it's untrue. Balme police, blame ANYONE because it wasnt us etc.

Simple facts here is that the toxic tribal football mentality hasnt been rid. People still want to evoke the 'glory' days of the 1970's and 1980's and want to 'defend' our terf against the Jack Army.

It's depressing that so many go 'ooh there will be trouble, forgetting there has to be two sides to have trouble. and  playing silly buggers over a game of football, is both ridiculous and utterly stupid.

But 'we' won, or our crew or whatever needed to have the once over? Did they heck as like

4 Police Officers, 1 Police Horse and 1 Police Dog, got injured because of idiots being idiots. Instead of engaging in the same behaviour, condoning it or blaming the Police, perhaps we should look closer to home and look at why so many want to cause aggro?

We're saints? No, no we're not. Crews across the country still rate us as 'handy' in some kind of horrible version of fight club that has gone horribly wrong.

Football is a game, to be watched and enjoyed. Not a battle ground to wage war (whichever war it's about see Red Star Belgrade, Egypt, Span and the rest if you want to do the history) because people want a ruck.

Dont entertain or big up the twonks involved and guess what they go away as there's no attention ( proven lots) however we still as a club still seem keen to blame ourselves. Some of the Combat 21 leaders were from city and I've heard everything from No surrender to the IRA and more and seen all kinds of crap from our fans. Perhaps you know we're part of the problem as well.

Whatever your thoughts. We definitely should not be blaming others because we are still neanderthals who have never grown in 40 odd years. It's a game. It;s that simple.  Why treat it as anything else?

I saw no problems until Swansea supporters obviously hell bent on a punch up swarmed toward the City supporters. Of course they will react it’s human nature. Yours included if someone was running toward you with thought of lumping you. 

I agree the Police have done a good job for years and I find it ridiculous that some have been over the top in criticism of them. However the silver lining is they will not make a mess of policing big games again of which there are now plenty coming!

The fact we have not had so many for a few years is part of the difficulty. Timely reminder for everyone that this stuff still happens

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Good points @REDOXO , good to know that the 4k for Wolves isn't cut and dried. I suppose the counter point on that is Wolves brought good numbers in that game at the end of 2017 and I don't remember anything noticeable in the ground trouble wise. Who knows what SAG and police will decide?

As for the future big games this season, I'd tentatively suggest the following changes:

1) Don't get a group in an escort (numbers seem to range between 200-800?) to the ground in a derby 20 mins after kickoff. Don't see how that helps!

2) Have several police at the Dolman-Atyeo corner from the get-go as we have had in prior big games, ie Wolves last season I believe was one.

3) Pair them up with senior, experienced stewards. Not young ones, not KB. Stand manager, supervisor and other albeit not one of those, an ordinary but experienced steward who can draw on experience etc.

4) IF police not in this area, have them very close by so they can get there within 30 seconds of unrest beginning, not 2 minutes.

5) If there are people on either side- and it's a fine line to walk-doing more than the usual mutual banter police/senior steward need to have serious word with fan about behaviour if it looks like it could cause a situation that incites opposing fans beyond chanting into genuine trouble or risk of it.

The best football policing and stewarding, and again you want to try to keep atmosphere/crowd banter too, entails an ability to stop trouble before it starts.

Then you have other areas for debate e.g. size of allocation, holding back fans. I think those first 5 points though regardless of debates about allocation and holding back fans are a must moving forward though.

[New Dazzler]

52 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good points @REDOXO , good to know that the 4k for Wolves isn't cut and dried. I suppose the counter point on that is Wolves brought good numbers in that game at the end of 2017 and I don't remember anything noticeable in the ground trouble wise. Who knows what SAG and police will decide?

As for the future big games this season, I'd tentatively suggest the following changes:

1) Don't get a group in an escort (numbers seem to range between 200-800?) to the ground in a derby 20 mins after kickoff. Don't see how that helps!

2) Have several police at the Dolman-Atyeo corner from the get-go as we have had in prior big games, ie Wolves last season I believe was one.

3) Pair them up with senior, experienced stewards. Not young ones, not KB. Stand manager, supervisor and other albeit not one of those, an ordinary but experienced steward who can draw on experience etc.

4) IF police not in this area, have them very close by so they can get there within 30 seconds of unrest beginning, not 2 minutes.

5) If there are people on either side- and it's a fine line to walk-doing more than the usual mutual banter police/senior steward need to have serious word with fan about behaviour if it looks like it could cause a situation that incites opposing fans beyond chanting into genuine trouble or risk of it.

The best football policing and stewarding, and again you want to try to keep atmosphere/crowd banter too, entails an ability to stop trouble before it starts.

Then you have other areas for debate e.g. size of allocation, holding back fans. I think those first 5 points though regardless of debates about allocation and holding back fans are a must moving forward though.

Spot on with all of this post, it was crazy that the OB were not in that corner from the start of the gates being open.   I remember at least a couple of really low-risk games in the last couple of seasons where there have been loads of Police presence outside the ground, as well as inside where there has been zero chance of anything kicking off between the fans.  I can't remember which teams we were playing (which sort of says it all as those sort of games, with relation to no potential crowd issues don't really stick in the memory) but it was sort of Wigan/Brentford/Fulham level with a few hundred away fans and no real need for any Police presence, as per the recent Bolton games.

So I was slightly gobsmacked to see no OB in that corner until it all kicked off the other day.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good points @REDOXO , good to know that the 4k for Wolves isn't cut and dried. I suppose the counter point on that is Wolves brought good numbers in that game at the end of 2017 and I don't remember anything noticeable in the ground trouble wise. Who knows what SAG and police will decide?

As for the future big games this season, I'd tentatively suggest the following changes:

1) Don't get a group in an escort (numbers seem to range between 200-800?) to the ground in a derby 20 mins after kickoff. Don't see how that helps!

2) Have several police at the Dolman-Atyeo corner from the get-go as we have had in prior big games, ie Wolves last season I believe was one.

3) Pair them up with senior, experienced stewards. Not young ones, not KB. Stand manager, supervisor and other albeit not one of those, an ordinary but experienced steward who can draw on experience etc.

4) IF police not in this area, have them very close by so they can get there within 30 seconds of unrest beginning, not 2 minutes.

5) If there are people on either side- and it's a fine line to walk-doing more than the usual mutual banter police/senior steward need to have serious word with fan about behaviour if it looks like it could cause a situation that incites opposing fans beyond chanting into genuine trouble or risk of it.

The best football policing and stewarding, and again you want to try to keep atmosphere/crowd banter too, entails an ability to stop trouble before it starts.

Then you have other areas for debate e.g. size of allocation, holding back fans. I think those first 5 points though regardless of debates about allocation and holding back fans are a must moving forward though.

4k for Wolves is not cut and dried at all. The FA Cup provides for up to 15% (Rules are completely different for Championship games) but they must be agreed by The SAG and as such as the Constabulary will have an input. In view of The Saturday debacle, and the ground itself, Wolves will get something akin to the away end minus some buffer on both sides I suspect.

Some Swansea fans were hell bent on a punch up. Some of this was because their club is in trouble. Huw something Welsh resigned after the game!

The point is. This is the very tippy tip of the iceberg that we are heading toward with big fixtures...This may be a blessing as if Leeds among others rear up Saturday will look pretty tame and that was the warning! 

[YorkshireSection]

18 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Really....

Turnstiles can be overridden..... people can push through them...... just because our resident police person said it defiantly happened doesn't mean its the truth!

Could she honestly stand in court and swear under oath that every single Swansea fan that entered the ground on Saturday had a ticket?? 

Yes police lie under oath all the time.

[richwwtk]

5 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I saw no problems until Swansea supporters obviously hell bent on a punch up swarmed toward the City supporters. Of course they will react it’s human nature. Yours included if someone was running toward you with thought of lumping you. 

I agree the Police have done a good job for years and I find it ridiculous that some have been over the top in criticism of them. However the silver lining is they will not make a mess of policing big games again of which there are now plenty coming!

The fact we have not had so many for a few years is part of the difficulty. Timely reminder for everyone that this stuff still happens

 

The Swansea fans seemed more hell bent on getting into the corner nearest the City fans and then posturing and chanting rather than actually getting into a punch up. Watching it live and on the video it is clear that only City fans had any thoughts of actually getting to the opposition fans for a fight. The Swansea fans weren't the ones getting onto the pitch in order to attack opposition fans.

The massed gesturing, chanting and posturing is part of football. What makes it more tribal than other sports and enhances the atmosphere. It's the overexcited fools without the intelligence or self control to stop it spilling over into violence that annoy me.

[BigAl&Toby]

11 hours ago, archie andrews said:

let it go ffs......far worse has happened over the years

Thanks for that Archie.

I will. I’ll not mention it again.

Let’s all hope that any review leads to lessons being learned and that the situation never arises again.

After all fans arriving late due in part to the actions of those who are tasked with crowd safety has never happened before has it?

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

4 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

Yes police lie under oath all the time.

So are you saying that @JulieH may not be completely be telling the truth on here?? I'm shocked at such a statement....... 

[Natchfever]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good points @REDOXO , good to know that the 4k for Wolves isn't cut and dried. I suppose the counter point on that is Wolves brought good numbers in that game at the end of 2017 and I don't remember anything noticeable in the ground trouble wise. Who knows what SAG and police will decide?

As for the future big games this season, I'd tentatively suggest the following changes:

1) Don't get a group in an escort (numbers seem to range between 200-800?) to the ground in a derby 20 mins after kickoff. Don't see how that helps!

2) Have several police at the Dolman-Atyeo corner from the get-go as we have had in prior big games, ie Wolves last season I believe was one.

3) Pair them up with senior, experienced stewards. Not young ones, not KB. Stand manager, supervisor and other albeit not one of those, an ordinary but experienced steward who can draw on experience etc.

4) IF police not in this area, have them very close by so they can get there within 30 seconds of unrest beginning, not 2 minutes.

5) If there are people on either side- and it's a fine line to walk-doing more than the usual mutual banter police/senior steward need to have serious word with fan about behaviour if it looks like it could cause a situation that incites opposing fans beyond chanting into genuine trouble or risk of it.

The best football policing and stewarding, and again you want to try to keep atmosphere/crowd banter too, entails an ability to stop trouble before it starts.

Then you have other areas for debate e.g. size of allocation, holding back fans. I think those first 5 points though regardless of debates about allocation and holding back fans are a must moving forward though.

Outside of the stadium is where the issues generally are Mr P and there was certainly recent trouble with Wolves in North Street which won't have been forgotten. 

In that regard, as always, A&SP knows best how to control matters, based upon its extensive intelligence, organisation, and most importantly, people skills.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Thanks for that Archie.

I will. I’ll not mention it again.

Let’s all hope that any review leads to lessons being learned and that the situation never arises again.

After all fans arriving late due in part to the actions of those who are tasked with crowd safety has never happened before has it?

I think it's the sense of entitlement to know and know now.

The police fked up, we know that, they know that and a review will be forthcoming. At the same time a group of fans fked up.

All the questions you've asked will I am sure be part of a review and will feed in to the planning for future events, but right now in the immediate aftermath let that review happen before wanting trigger responses.

The bigger priority for the police right now than responding to your queries will be - I'm sure - to take them on board as well as the other difficult questions put to them regarding their policing operation and review areas for improvement, whilst at the same time trying to identify any individuals who carried out criminal acts and to put them to justice.  Summary - there is a lot going on, whilst still policing a large, metropolitan area; chill a bit. 

[KevP]

1 hour ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

So are you saying that @JulieH may not be completely be telling the truth on here?? I'm shocked at such a statement....... 

Just a hunch TM.....you're not Old Bill by any chance are you.....??

[phantom]

Something else that was odd was Swansea supporters were let through this gate, away supporters are always directed around the road to the other end of the stand, I would love to know who authorised this gate being opened as it could have been absolute carnage as a result. Also intriguing why any other away fan is turned back but these were allowed through? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

Outside of the stadium is where the issues generally are Mr P and there was certainly recent trouble with Wolves in North Street which won't have been forgotten. 

In that regard, as always, A&SP knows best how to control matters, based upon its extensive intelligence, organisation, and most importantly, people skills.

Yeah for sure LP, the worse issues are away from the ground. By Wolves North Street, presumably you mean April 2017? I recall reading about some issues there.

Still, I believe my points would help with the situation in the ground itself.

@REDOXO Agree- if lessons are learnt, blessing in disguise. Good to know what 4k Wolves not cut and dry (though 1pm on a Sunday may help). Definitely a buffer zone on either side will help (don't think there's such a risk of Lansdown-Away end confrontation but who knows- can't be complacent)!

[Natchfever]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah for sure LP, the worse issues are away from the ground. By Wolves North Street, presumably you mean April 2017? I recall reading about some issues there.

Still, I believe my points would help with the situation in the ground itself.

@REDOXO Agree- if lessons are learnt, blessing in disguise. Good to know what 4k Wolves not cut and dry (though 1pm on a Sunday may help). Definitely a buffer zone on either side will help (don't think there's such a risk of Lansdown-Away end confrontation but who knows- can't be complacent)!

Agree with what you say in the ground, and I appreciate of course that you are fully aware of the risks surrounding visiting supporters away from the match which require immediate attention.

[GoonerRobin]

Ah but I have a cunning plan where I won't need a ticket see: about a week before the game i'm gonna come on here under a pseudonym such as 'ISLINGTON', mouthing off about how we're going to bring 10k fans to your barn and swamp both ends etc. Now the next bit does require a leap of faith but this will be picked up by the old bill on their new intelligence machines (Dell laptop) which can analse data, including 'big data' such as 'social media'. When they smugly start herding fans from the station, now aware of this very 'real' threat to take over AG I'll be poised to join the throng halfway down Cumberland Road (around 3 hours later) by which point the match will have kicked off causing boisterous banter to turn toxic by the time we reach the ground - faced with 800 screaming mockneys ready to kick off,  the turnstiles will be opened and in I stroll, ready to start pointing menacingly at the bumpkins in E block - sound vaguely familiar

[Maesknoll Red]

On 03/02/2019 at 09:21, Gakoe said:

I’m not saying anyone should lose their job CR. If this had been mentioned before I certainly don’t agree. I was just replying to the poster that said the police shouldn’t have to put up with this stuff. My point was, it’s what they’re paid (handsomely) to do.

Paid handsomely you wouldn’t catch me doing their job for the money they earn, it’s far from handsome.

[myol'man]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Something else that was odd was Swansea supporters were let through this gate, away supporters are always directed around the road to the other end of the stand, I would love to know who authorised this gate being opened as it could have been absolute carnage as a result. Also intriguing why any other away fan is turned back but these were allowed through? 

Bonkers if that gate was opened post match

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Something else that was odd was Swansea supporters were let through this gate, away supporters are always directed around the road to the other end of the stand, I would love to know who authorised this gate being opened as it could have been absolute carnage as a result. Also intriguing why any other away fan is turned back but these were allowed through? 

Was this taken pre-match, during the escort or post-match?

If it was during the escort with the late arrivals given home fans in home ends already then MAYBE it could be alright to fast track a bit, but any other time it's a very risky at best decision.

[WhistleHappy]

Perspective, things have moved on big time for recent generations....

Look what grandad was upto 40/50years ago...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1970s+football+hooligans&FORM=HDRSC2 

[phantom]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was this taken pre-match, during the escort or post-match?

If it was during the escort with the late arrivals given home fans in home ends already then MAYBE it could be alright to fast track a bit, but any other time it's a very risky at best decision.

Was taken pre-match about 1450, where the "tension" was in the air already by that time

Was amazed to see this gate get opened

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Was taken pre-match about 1450, where the "tension" was in the air already by that time

Was amazed to see this gate get opened

Well that's a definite surprise then- opening that gate at that time in this game to let fans in!

Could have backfired definitely- our away stewards usually seem to contain things quite well and a sign that they're pretty good is you never or very seldom see complaints to FSF_Faircop by away fans about them unlike at a lot of grounds, so I wonder why it was opened.

[REDOXO]

7 hours ago, richwwtk said:

The Swansea fans seemed more hell bent on getting into the corner nearest the City fans and then posturing and chanting rather than actually getting into a punch up. Watching it live and on the video it is clear that only City fans had any thoughts of actually getting to the opposition fans for a fight. The Swansea fans weren't the ones getting onto the pitch in order to attack opposition fans.

The massed gesturing, chanting and posturing is part of football. What makes it more tribal than other sports and enhances the atmosphere. It's the overexcited fools without the intelligence or self control to stop it spilling over into violence that annoy me.

Well that may be your view, however if 50-200 people run in a certain direction which is in fact only a few feet away its pretty certain they are up for it. The thought you do not react in strength to defend yourself and the those (Women Kids Old Men etc) around you is absurd

The fact is nothing would have happened if the charge had not happened and trying to argue otherwise is futile.

Mass Chanting and Posturing are part of Football, those who go away will tell you that...Charging is not and is a provocation and is 100% meant to be (I have been charged personally at WHU, Chelsea, Aldershot, Newport, Arsenal and a dozen other grounds, at no time did I ever think I or my father would not get hit if they got hold of us) the over excited fools that started the issue and raised Saturday's game to an 11 page thread came from Swansea!

[phantom]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well that's a definite surprise then- opening that gate at that time in this game to let fans in!

Could have backfired definitely- our away stewards usually seem to contain things quite well and a sign that they're pretty good is you never or very seldom see complaints to FSF_Faircop by away fans about them unlike at a lot of grounds, so I wonder why it was opened.

Honestly not sure - any idea why @JulieH ?

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, phantom said:

Honestly not sure - any idea why @JulieH ?

@phantom with that gate open they would have to still go through turnstiles wouldn't they? 

The picture makes me think that perhaps the Constabulary knew the escort was going to be late and opened extra gates and turnstiles so as not to get pressure outside. But who knows!. I'm sure that will all come out!!. The slowness of the escort seems to be the key issue from where I'm sitting!