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Devereux

Johnson - where he ranks

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There is always a lot of debate about whether LJ is a good manager for us or not. Here are some selected rankings for you.

What stands out for me is he has some pretty decent overall stats given he has managed all his games in Tier 2 (most have managed a lot in lower tiers). Plus if you only take Tier 2, to be ranked 3rd or 4th against all our 30-odd managers at that level in all those stats is pretty impressive. 

He also has a very decent cup win% where I was surprised to see BOD above him (albeit from fewer games)

Games Managed: 12th of 32

  1. Alan Dicks (641)
  2. Bob Hewison (460)
  3. Fred Ford (361)
  4. Pat Beasley (355)
  5. Alex Raisbeck (336)
  6. Terry Cooper (324)
  7. Joe Jordan (268)
  8. Gary Johnson (239)
  9. Sam Hollis (229)
  10. Danny Wilson (225)
  11. Harry Thickett (222)
  12. Lee Johnson (155)

Overall Win% (10 games min.): 11th of 31

  1. Danny Wilson (48%)
  2. Steve Cotterill (46%)
  3. Pat Beasley (46%)
  4. John Ward (45%)
  5. Harry Thickett (45%)
  6. Terry Cooper (44%)
  7. Sam Hollis (43%)
  8. Alex Raisbeck (43%)
  9. Fawthrop/Rosenior/Burnside (42%)
  10. Joe Jordan (42%)
  11. Lee Johnson (41%)
  12. Gary Johnson (40%)

Milestones

  • He was the 12th of 32 perm managers to reach 150 games. At that point he was ranked 10/12 win% (39%).
  • He was the 15th of 32 perm managers to reach 100 games. At that point he was ranked 7/15 win% (44%).

League Tier 2 only - games managed: 4th of 31

  1. Alan Dicks (373)
  2. Sam Hollis (197)
  3. Alex Raisbeck (152)
  4. Lee Johnson (137)
  5. Gary Johnson (132)

League Tier 2 only - wins: 3rd of 31

  1. Alan Dicks (135)
  2. Sam Hollis (90)
  3. Lee Johnson (52)

League Tier 2 only - Win% (10 games min.): =3rd of 31

  1. Harry Thickett (71%)
  2. Sam Hollis (46%)
  3. George Hedley (38%)
  4. Pat Beasley (38%)
  5. Lee Johnson (38%)

Cup games only - Win% (perm managers only): 3rd of 32

  1. Joe Palmer (67%) - 6 games
  2. Sean O'Driscoll (67%) - 6 games
  3. Lee Johnson (61%) - 18 games

 

DISCLAIMER: Data may have errors, hope not!

Edited by Devereux
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Obviously doing a very good job despite what his detractors might say. He is definitely in the top three in my time since the late 90s and heading to the top one if he keeps us top half Champ or better consistently.

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22 minutes ago, Devereux said:

There is always a lot of debate about whether LJ is a good manager for us or not. Here are some selected rankings for you.

What stands out for me is he has some pretty decent overall stats given he has managed all his games in Tier 2 (most have managed a lot in lower tiers). Plus if you only take Tier 2, to be ranked 3rd or 4th against all our 30-odd managers at that level in all those stats is pretty impressive. 

He also has a very decent cup win% where I was surprised to see BOD above him (albeit from fewer games)

Games Managed: 12th of 32

  1. Alan Dicks (641)
  2. Bob Hewison (460)
  3. Fred Ford (361)
  4. Pat Beasley (355)
  5. Alex Raisbeck (336)
  6. Terry Cooper (324)
  7. Joe Jordan (268)
  8. Gary Johnson (239)
  9. Sam Hollis (229)
  10. Danny Wilson (225)
  11. Harry Thickett (222)
  12. Lee Johnson (155)

Overall Win% (10 games min.): 11th of 31

  1. Danny Wilson (48%)
  2. Steve Cotterill (46%)
  3. Pat Beasley (46%)
  4. John Ward (45%)
  5. Harry Thickett (45%)
  6. Terry Cooper (44%)
  7. Sam Hollis (43%)
  8. Alex Raisbeck (43%)
  9. Fawthrop/Rosenior/Burnside (42%)
  10. Joe Jordan (42%)
  11. Lee Johnson (41%)
  12. Gary Johnson (40%)

Milestones

  • He was the 12th of 32 perm managers to reach 150 games. At that point he was ranked 10/12 win% (39%).
  • He was the 15th of 32 perm managers to reach 100 games. At that point he was ranked 7/15 win% (44%).

League Tier 2 only - games managed: 4th of 31

  1. Alan Dicks (373)
  2. Sam Hollis (197)
  3. Alex Raisbeck (152)
  4. Lee Johnson (137)
  5. Gary Johnson (132)

League Tier 2 only - wins: 3rd of 31

  1. Alan Dicks (135)
  2. Sam Hollis (90)
  3. Lee Johnson (52)

League Tier 2 only - Win% (10 games min.): =3rd of 31

  1. Harry Thickett (71%)
  2. Sam Hollis (46%)
  3. George Hedley (38%)
  4. Pat Beasley (38%)
  5. Lee Johnson (38%)

Cup games only - Win% (perm managers only): 3rd of 32

  1. Joe Palmer (67%) - 6 games
  2. Sean O'Driscoll (67%) - 6 games
  3. Lee Johnson (61%) - 18 games

 

DISCLAIMER: Data may have errors, hope not!

Hollis had two spells(at least) should be broken down.

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Meaningless OP. It's extremely difficult to compare players from different eras although class and quality can be compared.

However, there are many more factors to take account of with managers.

The financial state of the club at different times. On this depends the standard of players that were with the club.

The quality of Academy/Youth to progress to first team. Youth policy up to ten years before a manager comes in is relevant.

Coaching skills, man management, injuries and countless other factors. Even the quality of the playing surface.

And as an extreme factor, a decision about pay to first team players made in haste and euphoria in May 1955 by chairman Harry Dolman, was the major factor in a relegation season four/five years later.

So a decent idea for a thread but IMO, impossible to quantify the differences between our managers. Perhaps the "Gut Feeling" method is best.

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Interesting post but, as the saying goes, there are lies, dammed lies, and statistics. It’s impossible to rank managers’ performance just by percentage of games won etc, as this doesn’t tell the whole story surrounding the circumstances at the club at the time. For me, the achievements of Terry Cooper must beat that of all other managers due to the circumstances at the club when he was manager. As City sank to the bottom of the 4th division (as it was then), there was no money, hardly any players and hardly and staff of any sort at the club. The fact that the club survived and TC achieved promotion was a miracle 

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1 hour ago, Devereux said:

He also has a very decent cup win% where I was surprised to see BOD above him (albeit from fewer games)

....in that case we are in trouble!

 

CC6D408B-3AC9-4606-BF68-A03BC9E93F43.jpeg

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1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

Meaningless OP. It's extremely difficult to compare players from different eras although class and quality can be compared.

However, there are many more factors to take account of with managers.

The financial state of the club at different times. On this depends the standard of players that were with the club.

The quality of Academy/Youth to progress to first team. Youth policy up to ten years before a manager comes in is relevant.

Coaching skills, man management, injuries and countless other factors. Even the quality of the playing surface.

And as an extreme factor, a decision about pay to first team players made in haste and euphoria in May 1955 by chairman Harry Dolman, was the major factor in a relegation season four/five years later.

So a decent idea for a thread but IMO, impossible to quantify the differences between our managers. Perhaps the "Gut Feeling" method is best.

Funny how you never found it meaningless when the stats were used to support sacking LJ which you thoroughly agreed with,

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@Devereux if it’s not too much trouble is it possible to work out comparative points per game (rather than win %) for all managers based on old-school 2 points for a win and modern 3 points for a win.  Interested to see what difference it made....plus I think points per game is a better barometer than win %.

No probs if not.

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Anybody who can’t appreciate that LJ is doing a good job here, doesn’t deserve people taking the time to collate statistics & comparisons..! 

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3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Meaningless OP. It's extremely difficult to compare players from different eras although class and quality can be compared.

However, there are many more factors to take account of with managers.

The financial state of the club at different times. On this depends the standard of players that were with the club.

The quality of Academy/Youth to progress to first team. Youth policy up to ten years before a manager comes in is relevant.

Coaching skills, man management, injuries and countless other factors. Even the quality of the playing surface.

And as an extreme factor, a decision about pay to first team players made in haste and euphoria in May 1955 by chairman Harry Dolman, was the major factor in a relegation season four/five years later.

So a decent idea for a thread but IMO, impossible to quantify the differences between our managers. Perhaps the "Gut Feeling" method is best.

The financial state of the club at different times....

I suppose your slant depends very much on whether you are comparing the £££ available to a BC manager versus the £££ available to one in the past.

Or whether you correctly factor in the relative wealth or not of the opposition at the time.

With parachute payments a fairly recent thing, I suspect you get a very different answer with the second approach as to how well LJ truly is doing.

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7 hours ago, mozo said:

I hope he can exceed his dad

So do I as that would mean winning promotion!

Right now the pinnacle of LJs management achievement in the league is taking us to an 11th place finish in tier2... he needs to better that this season to start with.

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The stats are interesting. For me, on gut feeling alone and going back to 1990, I would put him ahead of everyone but Jordan, Gary Johnson and Cotterill. Not sure exactly how I would rank those four as it hard to make a direct comparison. Obviously a promotion would put LJ first on that list.

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57 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The stats are interesting. For me, on gut feeling alone and going back to 1990, I would put him ahead of everyone but Jordan, Gary Johnson and Cotterill. Not sure exactly how I would rank those four as it hard to make a direct comparison. Obviously a promotion would put LJ first on that list.

In terms of most enjoyable Managerial ride - it's got to be the double with SC but then he was abject in Champ for whatever reason.

The best management at highest level since last in tier 1 has got to be GJ in play off final season and now LJ keeping us in the Champ and improving position every year.

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The best manager we've had in my lifetime. 

Bristol City have played some of the best football I have seen us play since I've been supporting the club.  I really don't care about what anyone else says, I'm loving the club and the direction we are going in, right from the under 16's through to the first team squad. We, as supporters, should be buzzing for the future. 

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10 hours ago, reddoh said:

Hollis had two spells(at least) should be broken down.

Hollis had two spells (in the football league) as follows:

Spell 1: Sep 1902 - Feb 1905

  • Overall - 137 games
  • Overall - Win% 48%
  • Tier 2 - See above
  • Tier 2 - See above

Spell 2: Jan 1911 - Mar 1913

  • Overall - 92 games
  • Overall - Win% 29%
  • Tier 1 - 18 games
  • Tier 1 - Win% 22%
  • Tier 2 - 71 games
  • Tier 2 - Win% 32%

Likewise Joe Jordan had two spells as follows:

Spell 1: Mar 1988 - Sept 1990

  • Overall - 138 games
  • Overall - Win% 51%
  • Tier 2 - 4 games
  • Tier 2 - Win% 50%

Spell 2: Nov 1994 - Mar 1997

  • Overall - 130 games
  • Overall - Win% 32%
  • Tier 2 - 30 games
  • Tier 2 - Win% 23%
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8 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Funny how you never found it meaningless when the stats were used to support sacking LJ which you thoroughly agreed with,

It wasn't the stats that influenced me.

It was the miserable three / four month succession of games when we looked like a team of seven year olds with a manager who appeared to not have a clue what he was doing. And the fact that it happened every season, including this one for those with short memories.

At last, we appear to have a consistency of performance. The results may fluctuate, it will be very good if we keep winning, but if we perform yet lose, then I'll believe we have the right person at the helm.

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39 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

The best manager we've had in my lifetime. 

Bristol City have played some of the best football I have seen us play since I've been supporting the club.  I really don't care about what anyone else says, I'm loving the club and the direction we are going in, right from the under 16's through to the first team squad. We, as supporters, should be buzzing for the future. 

We won't be seeing much, if any, more from you on here then, sir. Shame.

I enjoy coming on here to see what everyone else says; if everyone only said what I say, well, there wouldn't be much point of this platform.

Hearing what other people have to say is pretty important, in all aspects of life, I fi ...... are you still with me @Badger08 ?.... nope, he's gone.

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6 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

The financial state of the club at different times....

I suppose your slant depends very much on whether you are comparing the £££ available to a BC manager versus the £££ available to one in the past.

Or whether you correctly factor in the relative wealth or not of the opposition at the time.

With parachute payments a fairly recent thing, I suspect you get a very different answer with the second approach as to how well LJ truly is doing.

I was thinking of how little funds were available to managers like Fred Ford, Alan Dicks and Terry Cooper who worked miracles. Yet how good funding was squandered by some. EG. Danny Wilson.

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Devereux if it’s not too much trouble is it possible to work out comparative points per game (rather than win %) for all managers based on old-school 2 points for a win and modern 3 points for a win.  Interested to see what difference it made....plus I think points per game is a better barometer than win %.

No probs if not.

Assuming only Permanent managers, Points Per Game is as follows:

All League games (assuming 2pts for win prior to 1981/82 season) = 8th of 32 perms

  1. Steve Cotterill - 1.65
  2. Danny Wilson - 1.65
  3. John Ward - 1.61
  4. Terry Cooper - 1.57
  5. Gary Johnson - 1.52
  6. Joe Jordan - 1.48
  7. Brian Tinnion - 1.43
  8. Lee Johnson - 1.39

Tier 2 league games (assuming 2pts for win prior to 1981/82 season) = 3rd of 25 perms

  1. Harry Thickett- 1.58
  2. Gary Johnson - 1.41
  3. Lee Johnson - 1.39

All League games (assuming 3pts for a win for everyone) = 3rd of 32 perms

  1. Steve Cotterill - 1.65
  2. Danny Wilson - 1.65
  3. John Ward - 1.61
  4. Harry Thickett - 1.59
  5. Pat Beasley - 1.59
  6. Terry Cooper - 1.57
  7. Alex Raisbeck - 1.53
  8. Gary Johnson - 1.52
  9. Sam Hollis - 1.51
  10. Fred Ford - 1.49
  11. Joe Jordan - 1.48
  12. Brian Tinnion - 1.43
  13. Lee Johnson - 1.39

Tier 2 league games (assuming 3pts for a win for everyone) = 4th of 25 perms

  1. Harry Thickett - 2.29
  2. Sam Hollis - 1.58
  3. Gary Johnson - 1.41
  4. Lee Johnson - 1.39
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1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

In terms of most enjoyable Managerial ride - it's got to be the double with SC but then he was abject in Champ for whatever reason.

The best management at highest level since last in tier 1 has got to be GJ in play off final season and now LJ keeping us in the Champ and improving position every year.

It's an interesting one. Absolutely agree on the first bit. Even if Cotterill didn't perform in the Championship, there is no doubt at all in my mind that our League One and JPT double season was the most I've enjoyed being a Bristol City supporter, and that's got to count for a lot. My feeling is the problem was we had a playing style that was set up to overwhelm weaker teams, which didn't translate to the Championship where we were playing teams equal or stronger to us but it led to some brilliant performances in that season we went up and was probably the closest I've seen to us playing Total Football.

With GJ's first season, it was brilliant and incredible to be challenging but it was also one of the seasons where we had a team high on confidence from a previous promotion, a low number of injuries (beyond an utterly crucial one in the play-off final), a system that really suited the players and a number of players achieving a level of form they would never again replicate in their careers. That is not to denigrate GJ's achievements - he created the conditions for all that to happen - but it does feel now we're in a much more sustainable position that any point when we have been in the second tier in my memory. Of course teams like Ipswich and countless more before them show quickly that can change and a team can find itself destablised and in relegation trouble but , at the moment, it feels like we've got a squad of Championship-level players, a sustainable financial position and a good chance of more Championship-level players coming up from the youth team. 

That's not all down to LJ of course, and I don't know whether it makes him the best manager but, if LJ were to resign tomorrow, then his replacement would have a stronger base to work with than any incoming Bristol City manager I can remember. 

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11 hours ago, Devereux said:

There is always a lot of debate about whether LJ is a good manager for us or not. Here are some selected rankings for you.

What stands out for me is he has some pretty decent overall stats given he has managed all his games in Tier 2 (most have managed a lot in lower tiers). Plus if you only take Tier 2, to be ranked 3rd or 4th against all our 30-odd managers at that level in all those stats is pretty impressive. 

He also has a very decent cup win% where I was surprised to see BOD above him (albeit from fewer games)

Games Managed: 12th of 32

  1. Alan Dicks (641)
  2. Bob Hewison (460)
  3. Fred Ford (361)
  4. Pat Beasley (355)
  5. Alex Raisbeck (336)
  6. Terry Cooper (324)
  7. Joe Jordan (268)
  8. Gary Johnson (239)
  9. Sam Hollis (229)
  10. Danny Wilson (225)
  11. Harry Thickett (222)
  12. Lee Johnson (155)

Overall Win% (10 games min.): 11th of 31

  1. Danny Wilson (48%)
  2. Steve Cotterill (46%)
  3. Pat Beasley (46%)
  4. John Ward (45%)
  5. Harry Thickett (45%)
  6. Terry Cooper (44%)
  7. Sam Hollis (43%)
  8. Alex Raisbeck (43%)
  9. Fawthrop/Rosenior/Burnside (42%)
  10. Joe Jordan (42%)
  11. Lee Johnson (41%)
  12. Gary Johnson (40%)

Milestones

  • He was the 12th of 32 perm managers to reach 150 games. At that point he was ranked 10/12 win% (39%).
  • He was the 15th of 32 perm managers to reach 100 games. At that point he was ranked 7/15 win% (44%).

League Tier 2 only - games managed: 4th of 31

  1. Alan Dicks (373)
  2. Sam Hollis (197)
  3. Alex Raisbeck (152)
  4. Lee Johnson (137)
  5. Gary Johnson (132)

League Tier 2 only - wins: 3rd of 31

  1. Alan Dicks (135)
  2. Sam Hollis (90)
  3. Lee Johnson (52)

League Tier 2 only - Win% (10 games min.): =3rd of 31

  1. Harry Thickett (71%)
  2. Sam Hollis (46%)
  3. George Hedley (38%)
  4. Pat Beasley (38%)
  5. Lee Johnson (38%)

Cup games only - Win% (perm managers only): 3rd of 32

  1. Joe Palmer (67%) - 6 games
  2. Sean O'Driscoll (67%) - 6 games
  3. Lee Johnson (61%) - 18 games

 

DISCLAIMER: Data may have errors, hope not!

Good to see Danny Wilson top of the win %, appreciate he never got the promotion he IMO deserved, I loved the football we played under him, very exciting

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1 hour ago, Devereux said:

Assuming only Permanent managers, Points Per Game is as follows:

All League games (assuming 2pts for win prior to 1981/82 season) = 8th of 32 perms

  1. Steve Cotterill - 1.65
  2. Danny Wilson - 1.65
  3. John Ward - 1.61
  4. Terry Cooper - 1.57
  5. Gary Johnson - 1.52
  6. Joe Jordan - 1.48
  7. Brian Tinnion - 1.43
  8. Lee Johnson - 1.39

Tier 2 league games (assuming 2pts for win prior to 1981/82 season) = 3rd of 25 perms

  1. Harry Thickett- 1.58
  2. Gary Johnson - 1.41
  3. Lee Johnson - 1.39

All League games (assuming 3pts for a win for everyone) = 3rd of 32 perms

  1. Steve Cotterill - 1.65
  2. Danny Wilson - 1.65
  3. John Ward - 1.61
  4. Harry Thickett - 1.59
  5. Pat Beasley - 1.59
  6. Terry Cooper - 1.57
  7. Alex Raisbeck - 1.53
  8. Gary Johnson - 1.52
  9. Sam Hollis - 1.51
  10. Fred Ford - 1.49
  11. Joe Jordan - 1.48
  12. Brian Tinnion - 1.43
  13. Lee Johnson - 1.39

Tier 2 league games (assuming 3pts for a win for everyone) = 4th of 25 perms

  1. Harry Thickett - 2.29
  2. Sam Hollis - 1.58
  3. Gary Johnson - 1.41
  4. Lee Johnson - 1.39

Wow, Devereaux, amazing, your time and effort into putting all this information here is very impressive.

Quality thread, excellent data.

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8 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

The financial state of the club at different times....

I suppose your slant depends very much on whether you are comparing the £££ available to a BC manager versus the £££ available to one in the past.

Or whether you correctly factor in the relative wealth or not of the opposition at the time.

With parachute payments a fairly recent thing, I suspect you get a very different answer with the second approach as to how well LJ truly is doing.

Swings and roundabouts though, yes we can argue he's doing better on a budget but we're still losing money and he has a man to help him on that front which previous managers didn't. We've also improved the training facilities, invested more in youth and spent a lot more on equipment for the players making he's got a much higher quality of youth player to bring into the team without having to make deals with other clubs in order to strengthen. 

I'm not saying LJ is doing bad, he's not in the slightest but he also has the job at a point where the club is far more advanced and supportinv than it was when his predecessors had, not to mention had any other manager had the run of defeats LJ had last season they would have more than likely been released. 

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1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Good to see Danny Wilson top of the win %, appreciate he never got the promotion he IMO deserved, I loved the football we played under him, very exciting

Exciting (reckless..?) Football, but Danny Wilson failed in the relatively achievable objective of getting us out of the 3rd tier. With the players he had at his disposal, he didn’t do a very good job, in failing to get promoted. 

He also oversaw (allowed..?) a complete lack of discipline  professionalism, which ultimately (possibly) cost several talented players the careers that they may have enjoyed, under better management. 

Fun..? Yes. Sustainable..? No

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22 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Exciting (reckless..?) Football, but Danny Wilson failed in the relatively achievable objective of getting us out of the 3rd tier. With the players he had at his disposal, he didn’t do a very good job, in failing to get promoted. 

He also oversaw (allowed..?) a complete lack of discipline  professionalism, which ultimately (possibly) cost several talented players the careers that they may have enjoyed, under better management. 

Fun..? Yes. Sustainable..? No

Yes, it is easy to explain Danny Wilson's high win percentage. Despite having the highest budget in the division he took us to 9th, 7th, 3rd (play off failure), and 3rd (play off failure). So of course he racked up a lot of wins but never did what his job was, which was to get us up. It was also disappointing that in his fourth year here he was still living in Chesterfield, which suggests a lack of commitment to the city and the club. It would have been better for him to get us promoted in his first or second season and then have three years fighting off relegation in the Championship. That would have been a poor win percentage but a better managerial tenure overall. 

Still, watching Thorpe, Bell, Tinnion, and Murray put teams to the sword most weeks did have its moments................

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1 hour ago, Boston Red said:

Yes, it is easy to explain Danny Wilson's high win percentage. Despite having the highest budget in the division he took us to 9th, 7th, 3rd (play off failure), and 3rd (play off failure). So of course he racked up a lot of wins but never did what his job was, which was to get us up. It was also disappointing that in his fourth year here he was still living in Chesterfield, which suggests a lack of commitment to the city and the club. It would have been better for him to get us promoted in his first or second season and then have three years fighting off relegation in the Championship. That would have been a poor win percentage but a better managerial tenure overall. 

Still, watching Thorpe, Bell, Tinnion, and Murray put teams to the sword most weeks did have its moments................

As did all the free shots of aftershock that the players would buy you, when you bumped into them in town..! 

It was great fun, as a youngster, but compared to how things are not, was completely mid-managed. 

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2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

That's not all down to LJ of course, and I don't know whether it makes him the best manager but, if LJ were to resign tomorrow, then his replacement would have a stronger base to work with than any incoming Bristol City manager I can remember. 

Agree in the main.  I would say that LJ took over a good squad of players, albeit in a poor position.

@Devereux legend 👍

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2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Exciting (reckless..?) Football, but Danny Wilson failed in the relatively achievable objective of getting us out of the 3rd tier. With the players he had at his disposal, he didn’t do a very good job, in failing to get promoted. 

He also oversaw (allowed..?) a complete lack of discipline  professionalism, which ultimately (possibly) cost several talented players the careers that they may have enjoyed, under better management. 

Fun..? Yes. Sustainable..? No

Absolutely. The squad that Wilson couldn't get promoted was more talented than the one that GJ did take up.

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6 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

The stats are interesting. For me, on gut feeling alone and going back to 1990, I would put him ahead of everyone but Jordan, Gary Johnson and Cotterill. Not sure exactly how I would rank those four as it hard to make a direct comparison. Obviously a promotion would put LJ first on that list.

I'd agree with you, Jordon delivered promotion and a 9th place tier 2 finish, Cotterill the brilliant double season and GJ so near to promotion to the prem. At the moment the best LJ has done in the league is 11th place finish, he needs to improve on that this season as SL is on record as expecting it.

Edited by old_eastender

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1 hour ago, old_eastender said:

I'd agree with you, Jordon delivered promotion and a 9th place tier 2 finish, Cotterill the brilliant double season and GJ so near to promotion to the prem. At the moment the best LJ has done in the league is 11th place finish, he needs to improve on that this season as SL is on record as expecting it.

Its tricky because he can't offer the league one promotion that many of the others have so we can only compare his success at this level, and include a cup semi too. 

If we finish 8th in the league or higher does LJ rate higher than Jordan? 

And if we lose in the play-off final (shudder) does he rate as level with his dad?

 

Edited by mozo

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8 hours ago, Devereux said:

Hollis had two spells (in the football league) as follows:

Spell 1: Sep 1902 - Feb 1905

  • Overall - 137 games
  • Overall - Win% 48%
  • Tier 2 - See above
  • Tier 2 - See above

Spell 2: Jan 1911 - Mar 1913

  • Overall - 92 games
  • Overall - Win% 29%
  • Tier 1 - 18 games
  • Tier 1 - Win% 22%
  • Tier 2 - 71 games
  • Tier 2 - Win% 32%

Likewise Joe Jordan had two spells as follows:

Spell 1: Mar 1988 - Sept 1990

  • Overall - 138 games
  • Overall - Win% 51%
  • Tier 2 - 4 games
  • Tier 2 - Win% 50%

Spell 2: Nov 1994 - Mar 1997

  • Overall - 130 games
  • Overall - Win% 32%
  • Tier 2 - 30 games
  • Tier 2 - Win% 23%

What a dark day that was in September 1990, took us years to recover from that. I often wonder what our path would have been had he stayed. 

Our time must come. Got to stop thinking haven't we done well. We're in the top six because we're good enough. Go up in the play-offs or die trying I say.

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Danny Wilson 48% win rate. Played the best footie I’ve seen at AG  in decades. Such a shame he didn’t win anything.

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As always and with every subject, Stats can be misleading but factual whereas opinions will vary for numerous reasons.

This topic is the same.I'm lucky enough to have seen the AD era and was sad when thousands turned against him for many years and hope that doesn't happen for this great LJ era.

I suppose the only way it won't is if he leaves us at the top position of our recent (45) year history?

For many on here LJ will be the highest rank in their lifetime of watching.Well done Lee.

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Danny Wilson 48% win rate. Played the best footie I’ve seen at AG  in decades. Such a shame he didn’t win anything.

47.35% - don’t round it up!

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23 hours ago, Fatknacker said:

It's an interesting analysis...thank you, I'm surprised AD isn't higher in Tier 2

We spent a long time one lower reaches of the 2nd division while AD was 'building for the future'! First 5 years we didn't finish above 14th. There was a bit more patience in those days; there would be a few coronaries on OTIB if LJ was given that level of tolerance! 

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1 hour ago, italian dave said:

We spent a long time one lower reaches of the 2nd division while AD was 'building for the future'! First 5 years we didn't finish above 14th. There was a bit more patience in those days; there would be a few coronaries on OTIB if LJ was given that level of tolerance! 

I'm sure your analysis is spot on, I just didn't remember us being that bad for that long but upon reflection, AD was here for a long time before our great youth team players filtered into the 1st XI...Merrick, Gow, Richie et all.

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On 06/02/2019 at 09:01, Moments of Pleasure said:

We won't be seeing much, if any, more from you on here then, sir. Shame.

I enjoy coming on here to see what everyone else says; if everyone only said what I say, well, there wouldn't be much point of this platform.

Hearing what other people have to say is pretty important, in all aspects of life, I fi ...... are you still with me @Badger08 ?.... nope, he's gone.

Nope, nodded off.  Does it need explaining that it was just a turn of phrase?  What moron would take that literally? Oh, no, you did.......... oh, nope, he's gone. 

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20 hours ago, Robbored said:

Danny Wilson 48% win rate. Played the best footie I’ve seen at AG  in decades. Such a shame he didn’t win anything.

Sadly he will always be remembered for the Playoff final disaster.

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2 hours ago, Super said:

Sadly he will always be remembered for the Playoff final disaster.

Not by me - although it was a huge disappointment.

I remembered him for the great football he delivered. They were halcyon days under Wilson.

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not by me - although it was a huge disappointment.

I remembered him for the great football he delivered. They were halcyon days under Wilson.

Has “Halcyon” had its definition changed to “failing to produce when it really mattered, probably because of over intoxication” 

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9 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Has “Halcyon” had its definition changed to “failing to produce when it really mattered, probably because of over intoxication” 

They were all piss artists for sure....but his teams produced some scintillating stuff nonetheless.

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3 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Nope, nodded off.  Does it need explaining that it was just a turn of phrase?  What moron would take that literally? Oh, no, you did.......... oh, nope, he's gone. 

So, you do care what other people have to say! Wonderful. 

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28 minutes ago, Robbored said:

They were all piss artists for sure....but his teams produced some scintillating stuff nonetheless.

Often only in the last 15 mins, as I recall. 

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