Show Me The Money! Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: Its not relevant. I'm saying players don't view the game based in the rulebook. Most of the time they don't know what the rules are and make complete arses of themselves when discussing incidents with referees on BT and Sky etc. But they are the ones who have played the game and know what is physically possible and what isn't. Getting your arms out of the way when your trying to block a shot of one of those issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Rob k said: What this thread does show for me is that there is no place in football for VAR - we all disagree on last nights decision so how can the ref make a decision. Just scrap it now before this nonesense goes any further and let us crack on arguing up the pub!! It's not VAR that's the problem in this instance its the handball rule that's the problem. Danny Mills made the same point in the Man City/ Shalke game the other week on the radio when a pen was given when the player had no chance of getting his arm out of the way. The ref in the game last night just played it by the letter of the law. That law is wrong to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, RedDave said: That’s four out of four refs now who all agree it was a penalty Another ref said similar last night. Rio Ferdinand and Owen Hargreaves made points about why they felt he was wrong and he couldn't answer the footballing points they made at all beyond its the rules. the ref was embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfctim Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Tbf, the ref's job isn't to make the rules, but to apply them as they are. So they didn't make the wrong decision as such, it's just that the law that they're bound by is misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, bcfctim said: Tbf, the ref's job isn't to make the rules, but to apply them as they are. So they didn't make the wrong decision as such, it's just that the law that they're bound by is misguided. The ref didnt really explain the rules either. it was cringeworthy to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadleyHeadleyer Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 4 hours ago, cidered abroad said: You've hit the nail plumb on the head. OGS is not afraid to play the young and inexperienced, even if he was maybe forced so to do. Could we, as a club that is trying hard to produce note of "Our Own", take more risks with our team selection? Could we start the games with youngsters rather than small cameos at the end? Would it have seriously altered our league position? Improved it for instance if Semenyo was banging the goals in or worsened it because we played O'Leary all season? Fortune favours the brave thinkers and decision makers? It certainly gave Man U another notable achievement last night. PS. This is not a criticism of anyone at City, rather some thoughts on what could be if we, as a club, were a bit more adventuresome. Man United have a history of bringing young players through and giving them a chance, the supporters have come to expect and even demand that that happens, so those young players are given plenty of leeway and allowed to make mistakes. i'm not sure that would happen at City, look at the stick Kelly is getting on here this season, it would take a real change in mindset for a lot of fans I think. plus United tend to have more 'easy' games (CL group stage dead rubbers, Cardiff!) where they can play those young players, City don't really have any like that unless they get favourable draws in the cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 FWIW, UEFA have said that the ref/VAR got it right. Mind you, you'd think a Governing body would say that...nope not necessarily. Sepp Blatter 2006 on various refereeing calls: Quote Both teams finished with nine men on Sunday after a game that equalled the World Cup record of 16 yellow cards and set a new mark of four reds. Blatter told Portugal's SIC television channel: "I consider the referee was not at the same level as the participants, the players. "I think there could have been a yellow card for the referee." Ivanov's amazing card spree increased the number of reds for the tournament to a record 23 - midway through the second round of the tournament. The 45-year-old sent off Costinha and Deco of Portugal and Dutchmen Khalid Boulahrouz and Giovanni van Bronckhorst, all for collecting for two cautions. He also issued yellow cards to Portugal's Maniche, Petit, Luis Figo, Ricardo and Nuno Valente and Holland's Mark van Bommel, Wesley Sneijder and Rafael van der Vaart. It was a great show with intervention by the referee that was not consistent and had a lack of fair play by some players Fifa President Sepp Blatter And once Portugal scored what turned out to be the 23rd minute-winner from Maniche, Ivanov struggled to deal with mounting indiscipline from both sides as the game degenerated into a farce. A Fifa panel is set to meet on Wednesday to decide on the officials who will be staying on in Germany for the latter stages of the tournament. But following Blatter's stinging indictment, Ivanov's hopes of further responsibilities at the World Cup look bleak. Blatter added: "This was a game of emotion, with exceptional drama in the last instant, with a deserved winner. "But it was a great show with intervention by the referee that was not consistent and had a lack of fair play by some players." Blatter on Poll after his 3 card trick amongst other errors in the same game at same tournament: Quote English referee Graham Poll will learn his World Cup fate either later on Friday or on Saturday following his blunder in handing three yellow cards to the same player during Thursday's Croatia-Australia match. Poll booked Croatia defender Josip Simunic three times, after 62 minutes, 90 minutes and in the 93rd minute -- the third minute of stoppage time -- when he finally sent him off in the Group F match in Stuttgart. FIFA president Sepp Blatter told reporters on Friday: "I place my trust in the referee's committee who will meet very soon to make an assessment on his performance. I hope they will show the tact in their handling that this matter deserves. "I cannot understand how the four people in the team refereeing the match, the referee, the assistants and the fourth official could have allowed this to happen. It is like they had a blackout," he told a media briefing. NO HELP "There were four people there, an evident error had been made. Someone should have said 'stop, stop, something is wrong here'. "That's why they have the communication system. The assistants and the fourth official have the right to call on the referee and tell him. It is not understandable how this happened." Quote Earlier on Wednesday, Blatter criticized referees for being inconsistent and not following instructions properly. "I've noted that instructions aren't being followed consistently from one match to another," Blatter was quoted as saying on Wednesday in an interview with FIFA's website. "When a coach complains to me that shirt-pulling earned his player a yellow card one night and nothing for his team's group rivals the next, how am I supposed to respond? "And then there are the tackles from behind I've seen go unpunished and the violent conduct that has escaped sanction, not to mention the serious errors made in applying the rules." Blatter's remarks reflect badly on FIFA who believed that by establishing teams of referees with regular assistants in well-practised trios, previous problems would be eradicated. Good to see he backed his refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 55 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: FWIW, UEFA have said that the ref/VAR got it right. Exactly, just as they got it right in the award of the World Cup to South Africa, Russia and Qatar and to just about any tournament and contract award to CONCACAF these past 30 years. The only reason they're not charged with bringing the game into disrepute is with decisions such as occured this week football's standing really hasn't got far to fall. UEFA/ FIFA should simply decide who their commercial sponsors wish to win and us fans may save ourselves the trouble of investing time and money into what was once a great sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Exactly, just as they got it right in the award of the World Cup to South Africa, Russia and Qatar and to just about any tournament and contract award to CONCACAF these past 30 years. The only reason they're not charged with bringing the game into disrepute is with decisions such as occured this week football's standing really hasn't got far to fall. UEFA/ FIFA should simply decide who their commercial sponsors wish to win and us fans may save ourselves the trouble of investing time and money into what was once a great sport. Ah that was FIFA though- always thought of FIFA as worse than UEFA. The rules have changed from next season though, but until then!! Don't think the idea of Russia was such a terrible one, quite a good World Cup all in all and yes extended over from USSR they do have a football tradition. South Africa was new ground never a WC in Africa before, and was more mixed, Qatar though was the worst decision of all time. CONCACAF...well FIFA and them have an interesting relationship let's say. On that note of commercial sponsors etc and the great sport- I bet sponsors would have been cheering Real Madrid- how refreshing to see that I thought, thumped by Ajax at home a tradition and class rich, but cash poor or at least modest club- just when you think football slides away, it brings back a great shock once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Ah that was FIFA though- always thought of FIFA as worse than UEFA. The rules have changed from next season though, but until then!! Don't think the idea of Russia was such a terrible one, quite a good World Cup Might as well be one organization given the common failings they share. Russia, forget the outcome and focus on the bribery that got them the tournament in the first place. Don't start me on the proposed Law changes next season should the IFab advisories get their way. In the case of handball suggesting an arm/ hand should be in a 'natural position', what the hell is that? If suggesting that subject to gravity either should be as low as possible why not go the whole hog and require the player to be in a heap on the floor? No attackers within a metre of the wall, why? There are numerous other covering laws should attackers foul or impede an opponent. One shot pens, why? So the keeper saves and the defensive team makes no attempt to play the ball, what happens next? We'll end up like the NFL (Millers 'fumble' for the Bears Vs Eagles,) everybody scratching their heads as to what to do next? Football survived with 17 or fewer laws for decades and creating more simply detracts from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Might as well be one organization given the common failings they share. Russia, forget the outcome and focus on the bribery that got them the tournament in the first place. Don't start me on the proposed Law changes next season should the IFab advisories get their way. In the case of handball suggesting an arm/ hand should be in a 'natural position', what the hell is that? If suggesting that subject to gravity either should be as low as possible why not go the whole hog and require the player to be in a heap on the floor? No attackers within a metre of the wall, why? There are numerous other covering laws should attackers foul or impede an opponent. One shot pens, why? So the keeper saves and the defensive team makes no attempt to play the ball, what happens next? We'll end up like the NFL (Millers 'fumble' for the Bears Vs Eagles,) everybody scratching their heads as to what to do next? Football survived with 17 or fewer laws for decades and creating more simply detracts from the game. None of the Governing bodies are ideal, but I believe FIFA to be worse than UEFA- funnily enough FIFA even in some aspects have got worse post Blatter believe it or not (ironically, Blatter's replacement a high up from UEFA so maybe they're all as bad etc). Any hard and fast evidence? I agree it looks suspicious, but hard and fast evidence...point me to it. Agreed, that particular law change should be looked at again- you'd be giving multiple penalties per game if it was implemented as proposed. I'll have to look into that, haven't a huge knowledge of the law changes but the offside one they kept tinkering with a good example and then extra time straight 30 mins...changed to golden goal, then silver goal..then they restored it to the original 30 mins of extra time, split into 2 15 minute periods as the new standard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 23 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said: But they are the ones who have played the game and know what is physically possible and what isn't. Getting your arms out of the way when your trying to block a shot of one of those issues. The player knows if he jumps with arms way outside the line of his body it may be a pen, deliberate or otherwise. So, unless you jump with arms by your side you run the risk of a pen whether you had the time to move the arms or not. You jump, you choose to take the risk, according the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: The player knows if he jumps with arms way outside the line of his body it may be a pen, deliberate or otherwise. So, unless you jump with arms by your side you run the risk of a pen whether you had the time to move the arms or not. You jump, you choose to take the risk, according the rules. I'm not disagreeing with you on what the rule is. Going by the rules I agree it was a penalty. My view is that the rule is unrealistic and needs changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 07/03/2019 at 08:39, South Somerset Red said: Well maybe the manager was the problem? I mean when you have a guy coming out in press conferences and saying his players are not good enough and he should've been given more money to replace them then maybe you can understand why they downed tools? Mourinho maybe a great tactician but his man management is atrocious. On today, of all days, it is perhaps worth remembering that his woman management wasn't all that clever either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 I just have to post this. I shall endeavour to translate it tomorrow, but, in brief, Neymar's father was so incensed by Cantona's celebrations that he 'aggressed' Cantona's friends.... Après la désillusion du PSG face à Manchester United (1-3), les comptes se règlent. Après Patrice Evra et Jérôme Rothen, ce serait le père de Neymar et Cantona qui auraient eu une vive altercation à l'issue du match de mercredi soir. Une information révélée par RMC Sport. «Eric Cantona et un de ses amis ont provoqué les Brésiliens en mimant un "chut" le doigt sur la bouche et en faisant d’autres gestes provocateurs. Une provocation que le père de Neymar n'a pas du tout appréciée, se sentant insulté ainsi que le club», apprend-t-on. Le père de Neymar a alors violemment repoussé l'un des amis de Cantona. Le service de sécurité est intervenu. Pour rappel, l'ancien international français avait laissé éclater sa joie sur les réseaux sociaux à l'issue du succès des Mancuniens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 17 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said: I'm not disagreeing with you on what the rule is. Going by the rules I agree it was a penalty. My view is that the rule is unrealistic and needs changing For decades football seemed to get by with a ref with his whistle aided by a couple of linesmen. Players respected the referees decision in the main, even if they probably often disagreed with it. Fast forward to the 90s - the advent of Sky, huge amounts of money coming into the game and punditry moving to a whole new level, aided by replays of incidents from every conceivable angle and super slow motion. While contentious incidents have always been debated ( the offside in the Leeds West Brom game in the 60s always comes to mind) it seems that post-match debate seems to be focussed on the major decisions, rather than the game itself, and the apparent desire to highlight mistakes. It has been this growing highlighting of "flawed" decisions, that led to the clamour for, and ultimate acceptance, of technology - initially goal line sensors ( a good idea because it measures a simple yes or no decision) and now VAR. The problem as I see it, is that the focus now moves from whether the ref got it wrong in real time, with only a split second view and in which to make a decision, to whether the VAR /ref got it wrong because of their interpretation of what they saw, the laws of the game and players intention ( was it deliberate). From something that I think we all thought would provide a quick and conclusive decision, VAR is increasingly becoming a distraction from and a barrier to the flow of the game. Worse, it seems from the R Madrid Ajax game, that the scope of VAR is ever extending, so they are looking not just at offside decisions or fouls when the goal was scored, but tracking back through phases of play to see if any offence or bak out of play occurred. This is looking more snd more like the thin end of a wedge towards NFL coverage some could soon end up with 2 hours of adverts interrupted by a game of football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 On 06/03/2019 at 22:11, Super said: PSG are the ultimate bottle jobs. Brave call from a Liverpool fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 On 06/03/2019 at 22:16, Maesknoll Red said: I deliberately didn’t comment on anything other than the penalty taker, he had nothing to do with the decision, but still showed nerve well beyond his years. Taking it on, just what has OGS done to that team, a Manager with limited experience and a failed venture in the Prem, has completely turned the fortunes of Man U around. And that, after taking over a multi trophy winner, who failed miserably. No matter what your opinion of Man U, it’s an amazing story. More to do with the Assistant Manager in my humble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Fordy62 said: Brave call from a Liverpool fan! Still praying for a miracle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 On 08/03/2019 at 14:07, CotswoldRed said: The player knows if he jumps with arms way outside the line of his body it may be a pen, deliberate or otherwise. So, unless you jump with arms by your side you run the risk of a pen whether you had the time to move the arms or not. You jump, you choose to take the risk, according the rules. At this point in time it is not in the rules of the game .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 09/03/2019 at 17:31, Cowshed said: At this point in time it is not in the rules of the game .. Fair enough, I'm not ganna consult the book. Just quoting (almost verbatim) the words of the ref in the BT show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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