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DownendRed97

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22 hours ago, shelts said:

The manager has got the team playing with fear .  No spark at all . No one wants the ball and when we do have it we just pass sideways like a Danny Wilson side!!

One up top against bottom of the league at home . A new low . 

That final sentence scares me. 

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On 13/03/2019 at 07:23, sglosbcfc said:

You can criticise 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 as much as you like but it is the formation that has seen us massively overachieve. Only the most optimistic City fans were predicting we'd be in this position at this stage of the season. Some of the more pessimistic were predicting relegation.

It is effective away from home. as can be seen by our excellent away recored.........however at home when we need to be on the front foot and dominate.,  it is particularly ineffective, as can be seen by our extremely poor home record.  Lj is supposedly an excellent coach, so he needs to formulate a pattern of play that works at home, so far he is not up to it, and it appears to be his achilles heel.

 

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6 minutes ago, maxjak said:

It is effective away from home. as can be seen by our excellent away recored.........however at home when we need to be on the front foot and dominate.,  it is particularly ineffective, as can be seen by our extremely poor home record.  Lj is supposedly an excellent coach, so he needs to formulate a pattern of play that works at home, so far he is not up to it, and it appears to be his achilles heel.

 

Spot on. It's also a system that is so rigidly adhered to that other coaches have no difficulty predicting us and setting up to counter.

I know no one likes a tinker-man, but for God sake shake it up sometimes and make it a bit difficult for opponents to guess what we'll do!

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1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Spot on. It's also a system that is so rigidly adhered to that other coaches have no difficulty predicting us and setting up to counter.

I know no one likes a tinker-man, but for God sake shake it up sometimes and make it a bit difficult for opponents to guess what we'll do!

Funnily enough I was thinking about the up coming Sheff U game, and wondered if LJ might switch things around. I know it's unlikely, as the current system is working ok away , but. The home game is the only time this year ( I think) that we have started with a back 3, he went to try and stop Sheff playing (They were the highest scoring team in the first half then apparently) , and pushed on a bit in the 2nd half.
If we did go 3 at the back , we could have a MF 3 and 2 up front, plus we have the players to do it. 

                        Oleary
       Kalas - Webster - Wright
Hunt/Pisano                       DaSilva

       Brownhill - Pack - Morrell/Walsh

              Diedhiou - Weimann/Taylor

 

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On 13/03/2019 at 07:23, sglosbcfc said:

You can criticise 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 as much as you like but it is the formation that has seen us massively overachieve. Only the most optimistic City fans were predicting we'd be in this position at this stage of the season. Some of the more pessimistic were predicting relegation.

Overachieve away from home where its suited to a counter-attacking game. At home its easily contained by visitors who sit deep, hence 7 wins from 19.

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LJ instigated a formation that has worked well away as many others have highlighted.

However, his inability to either adapt it or even play to a different style at home, is emphasized by the dismal points gained at Ashton Gate. And perhaps even more serious, an average of only a couple or three attempts on target per game. In short, we have been seriously bored for a very large part of our home games.

I've renewed but am already thinking I have made a wrong decision.

How many of the 15,000 ST holders have decided not to buy yet?

How many have definitely decided not to renew?

And if the number of renewals now is well below what the club expected, how will SL deal with this? Grin and bear it or take action to make next season's home games more entertaining and productive!

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8 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

LJ instigated a formation that has worked well away as many others have highlighted.

However, his inability to either adapt it or even play to a different style at home, is emphasized by the dismal points gained at Ashton Gate. And perhaps even more serious, an average of only a couple or three attempts on target per game. In short, we have been seriously bored for a very large part of our home games.

I've renewed but am already thinking I have made a wrong decision.

How many of the 15,000 ST holders have decided not to buy yet?

How many have definitely decided not to renew?

And if the number of renewals now is well below what the club expected, how will SL deal with this? Grin and bear it or take action to make next season's home games more entertaining and productive!

If you decide not to renew because under Johnson you are not happy with improved league positions every season (likely to be the case this season although I know the season is not over), one of our best league finishes for 40 years, highest crowds for 40 years, a league cup semi for the first time in 30 years and FA cup fifth round for first time in 18 years, then you might be better supporting Celtic, Bayern or Benfica where you are pretty much guaranteed a trophy every season.

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Regarding now many will renew, listening to the people around me in the Dolman on Tuesday most were patient but bored. I think they can take losing but not losing with a fight and a bit of passion. There were encouraging voices in the main and of course a few who weren’t happy, but I think even the most placid supporter is being tested with what’s on offer at home.

A few I spoke to said they weren’t renewing but were going to pick and chose games as they travelled from South Devon etc. I think many will do this especially with the lack of Saturday 3pm games and tv coverage/streaming. Yes they do realise IF we ever got to the Premier League this is standard but it’s not what they anticipated when signing up to their ST’s this time last year. 

I cant blame them, I only live a few miles away from AG but if I had to drive a couple of hours on a wet February night after a ‘home’ match, a match where we just passed the ball hopelessly around the defence with no player moving or wanting the ball and then seeing it hoofed aimlessly only to have it back down our throats, I think I would be picking and choosing too. 

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9 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

LJ instigated a formation that has worked well away as many others have highlighted.

However, his inability to either adapt it or even play to a different style at home, is emphasized by the dismal points gained at Ashton Gate. And perhaps even more serious, an average of only a couple or three attempts on target per game. In short, we have been seriously bored for a very large part of our home games.

I've renewed but am already thinking I have made a wrong decision.

How many of the 15,000 ST holders have decided not to buy yet?

How many have definitely decided not to renew?

And if the number of renewals now is well below what the club expected, how will SL deal with this? Grin and bear it or take action to make next season's home games more entertaining and productive!

Official site says we have more renewals at this point than we ever have. 

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41 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

If you decide not to renew because under Johnson you are not happy with improved league positions every season (likely to be the case this season although I know the season is not over), one of our best league finishes for 40 years, highest crowds for 40 years, a league cup semi for the first time in 30 years and FA cup fifth round for first time in 18 years, then you might be better supporting Celtic, Bayern or Benfica where you are pretty much guaranteed a trophy every season.

I have renewed. No I do not want to support Celtic or Bayern, but having lived in Portugal, would like Os Encarnardos to stay above Porto.

Back to City. It is, IMO, simply incredible that we are sixth/seventh in the table with ten games to go, with such an appalling home record.

A side that wins away on a regular basis, normally does so by having a solid defence and being able to hit teams on the break. That is City this season and long may it continue.

But getting away wins is the icing on the cake. Successful sides build the points total by being solid at home, making it a fortress where others fear to tread. Only on odd occasions are games lost, usually to the team ten points adrift at the bottom of the league.

Away form can, at times, become very fragile, but home form is the rock on which to build. Fans are happy and look forward to each match. Can anyone honestly say that they look forward with confidence to our home games this season?

If the miracle happens, we win promotion via the play offs, does anyone believe that winning away in the Prem and losing at home, would bring us enough points to stay up?

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9 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

LJ instigated a formation that has worked well away as many others have highlighted.

However, his inability to either adapt it or even play to a different style at home, is emphasized by the dismal points gained at Ashton Gate. And perhaps even more serious, an average of only a couple or three attempts on target per game. In short, we have been seriously bored for a very large part of our home games.

I've renewed but am already thinking I have made a wrong decision.

How many of the 15,000 ST holders have decided not to buy yet?

How many have definitely decided not to renew?

And if the number of renewals now is well below what the club expected, how will SL deal with this? Grin and bear it or take action to make next season's home games more entertaining and productive!

Do you think this team and squad is good enough to play multiple styles of football?

Mr Johnson has been criticised for being muddled in his thinking and over complicating things. A different style home and away?

Cardiff, Fulham and Wolves last season made little change to their approaches over the season.

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43 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Do you think this team and squad is good enough to play multiple styles of football?

Mr Johnson has been criticised for being muddled in his thinking and over complicating things. A different style home and away?

Cardiff, Fulham and Wolves last season made little change to their approaches over the season.

Teams can still tweak within a certain basic framework though...

E,g, We could play a more attacking 4-4-1-1 vs certain sides, a more defensive 4-1-4-1 vs others. Likewise if we went 4-3-3, something I've been pro for a while- don't mean Paterson as on of the 2nd line of 4 in the 4-1-4-1 I mean a 4-3-3, we could tweak emphasis on attack/defence dependent on the opposition. A more reactive 4-3-3 in Game A, more proactive in Game B for example- but still the same basic framework.

Sheffield United I notice seem to have found a different dimension- usually the same system but finally appear to have started winning uglier or toughing it out- either due to injuries or in-game red cards but I associate them with a distinct style of play...but Wilder has started to tinker a little, but same formation in the main. OTOH, Leeds play the same way each week and Norwich usually like to try and dominate the ball where possible.

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On 12/03/2019 at 22:43, Carey 6 said:

Below average ? the bloke has 11 goals, he’s often extremely isolated & puts an absolute shift in most weeks. 

He’s a decent Championship striker but he needs help. When Semenyo played next to him at Blackburn the difference was crazy, likewise when Taylor is on the pitch he gets more space & causes more problems. 

He's sh1te.

 

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26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Teams can still tweak within a certain basic framework though...

E,g, We could play a more attacking 4-4-1-1 vs certain sides, a more defensive 4-1-4-1 vs others. Likewise if we went 4-3-3, something I've been pro for a while- don't mean Paterson as on of the 2nd line of 4 in the 4-1-4-1 I mean a 4-3-3, we could tweak emphasis on attack/defence dependent on the opposition. A more reactive 4-3-3 in Game A, more proactive in Game B for example- but still the same basic framework.

Sheffield United I notice seem to have found a different dimension- usually the same system but finally appear to have started winning uglier or toughing it out- either due to injuries or in-game red cards but I associate them with a distinct style of play...but Wilder has started to tinker a little, but same formation in the main. OTOH, Leeds play the same way each week and Norwich usually like to try and dominate the ball where possible.

The poster mentions a different style. Posts here are a myriad of ideas and significant change. 

You are making the point I would. Good teams frequently change little.

Bristol City have adequate and good players. Good enough to accommodate lots of change and learning? My answer would be an unequivocal no. 

Yes Leeds and Norwich change little. And it shows in differing ways. That learning requires focus and time.

New style, styles in March? With city's players?

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13 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Funnily enough I was thinking about the up coming Sheff U game, and wondered if LJ might switch things around. I know it's unlikely, as the current system is working ok away , but. The home game is the only time this year ( I think) that we have started with a back 3, he went to try and stop Sheff playing (They were the highest scoring team in the first half then apparently) , and pushed on a bit in the 2nd half.
If we did go 3 at the back , we could have a MF 3 and 2 up front, plus we have the players to do it. 

                        Oleary
       Kalas - Webster - Wright
Hunt/Pisano                       DaSilva

       Brownhill - Pack - Morrell/Walsh

              Diedhiou - Weimann/Taylor

 

I like the sentiments of this but have some Qs / Thoughts:

  • Is Wright the right person to play left side of a 3.  History shows us that when he has to play on his left foot he is very poor and stifles any passing down the left side, and if coming back on his right, enters congestion.
  • Would Baker be a better bet, naturally left sided.  Concerns that we might get exposed down the sides, but I've not seen that per se.  Not the greatest footballer, and I suspect you would like your side-CBs to start attacks
  • Kelly?  Again naturally left sided, and might be his best position at his current development stage
  • Play Webster there, because he can bring the ball out better than anyone.  Who do you then play centrally?  

Interestingly we went back 3 v Preston, but played Kalas (RCB), Baker (SW), Webster (LCB).  I think LJ played Baker in the middle for two reasons:

  1. to not leave him exposed down the sides
  2. allow Webster to be the split CB to bring it forward

As it happened it was probably our worst team performance of the season!  We didn’t match them up as LJ stated we did (he got it massively wrong that day imho), Preston just turned us round with the lively running of Maguire, Robinson and Barkhuizen, and squeezed us in.  A strategy I think we could do much more than we attempt, especially when we can’t play through them...but you need runners up front.

  • could we have gone Webster, Kalas, Baker...could Kalas be the non-marker?  I think he has it in his locker to be a non-warrior.  
  • Or Wright, Kalas, Webster?

Maybe Preston was a bad game to go 352....and we shouldn’t base it on that.

The RWB thoughts:

  • could Brownhill play RWB...we shouldn’t need it with Hunt, he ought to be the 1st choice, but at least cover

The LWB thoughts:

  • Dasilva the natural, but O’Dowda and Kelly capable.

Midfield:

Would like to see a flat 3 in there, thoughts of a 5212, ala Luke Freeman, just leave the 2 CMs exposed as in a 442.  If you had two terriers, maybe, but Pack isn’t.  This is where I could see a 3 for Brownhill (RCM), Pack, O’Dowda (LCM).  Brownhill and O’Dowda able to drift between the lines and join the front two.  Korey Smith would come in in either RCM or CM.

Up Front:

Quite simply a partner for Diedhiou...any of Weimann, Taylor, Palmer, Paterson, Semenyo....or actually any two from 6.  Paterson and Palmer could make one of the midfield 3 to rotate them.  And away from home you might go a bit more 5311.

If this was going to be our new way, I think we could recruit more effectively....but on the flip side, we might as well get rid of our true wingers Eliasson, Watkins and possibly Adelakun.  Eisa too.

I do think we have the players currently available.  

The likes of Vyner and Moore might have more of a chance of playing in a back three.  Morrell and Walsh add cover in the 3 midfield positions also.

 

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On 12/03/2019 at 23:59, shelts said:

The manager has got the team playing with fear .  No spark at all . No one wants the ball and when we do have it we just pass sideways like a Danny Wilson side!!

One up top against bottom of the league at home . A new low . 

Alan Dicks had his team playing with Fear, didn’t do them much harm.

  

 

One for the older  gentlemen and gentle ladies.

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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I have renewed. No I do not want to support Celtic or Bayern, but having lived in Portugal, would like Os Encarnardos to stay above Porto.

Back to City. It is, IMO, simply incredible that we are sixth/seventh in the table with ten games to go, with such an appalling home record.

A side that wins away on a regular basis, normally does so by having a solid defence and being able to hit teams on the break. That is City this season and long may it continue.

But getting away wins is the icing on the cake. Successful sides build the points total by being solid at home, making it a fortress where others fear to tread. Only on odd occasions are games lost, usually to the team ten points adrift at the bottom of the league.

Away form can, at times, become very fragile, but home form is the rock on which to build. Fans are happy and look forward to each match. Can anyone honestly say that they look forward with confidence to our home games this season?

If the miracle happens, we win promotion via the play offs, does anyone believe that winning away in the Prem and losing at home, would bring us enough points to stay up?

At this moment in time ‘ staying up ‘ is the least of our worries.

If ,by some footballing miracle , we do go up this season then I wouldn’t want SL to risk the long term future of the club by exceeding the budget, which , for all his faults , is something I’m convinced he wouldn’t do .

We go up ,we bring in a few new faces and sink or swim within our framework.

Other ‘ smaller ‘ clubs have made a fist out of it without bankrupting themselves. I strongly favour the Burnley approach.

If we did come straight back down then we go again with a bigger reputation to attract better players and those  , oh so cuddly, parachute payments.

 

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2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Alan Dicks had his team playing with Fear, didn’t do them much harm.

  

 

One for the older  gentlemen and gentle ladies.

Keith Fear a very talented footballer. But lacked, what shall we call it, application.

Too often the wrong side of a defender to receive a pass for it to be a coincidence.

Pato reminds me of him. Are they related?

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24 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Keith Fear a very talented footballer. But lacked, what shall we call it, application.

Too often the wrong side of a defender to receive a pass for it to be a coincidence.

Pato reminds me of him. Are they related?

My dad was friends with a local bookmaker. Keith Fear spent a lot of his leisure time in his establishment. Mind you he wasn't the only player that did....

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I like the sentiments of this but have some Qs / Thoughts:

  • Is Wright the right person to play left side of a 3.  History shows us that when he has to play on his left foot he is very poor and stifles any passing down the left side, and if coming back on his right, enters congestion.
  • Would Baker be a better bet, naturally left sided.  Concerns that we might get exposed down the sides, but I've not seen that per se.  Not the greatest footballer, and I suspect you would like your side-CBs to start attacks
  • Kelly?  Again naturally left sided, and might be his best position at his current development stage
  • Play Webster there, because he can bring the ball out better than anyone.  Who do you then play centrally?  

Interestingly we went back 3 v Preston, but played Kalas (RCB), Baker (SW), Webster (LCB).  I think LJ played Baker in the middle for two reasons:

  1. to not leave him exposed down the sides
  2. allow Webster to be the split CB to bring it forward

As it happened it was probably our worst team performance of the season!  We didn’t match them up as LJ stated we did (he got it massively wrong that day imho), Preston just turned us round with the lively running of Maguire, Robinson and Barkhuizen, and squeezed us in.  A strategy I think we could do much more than we attempt, especially when we can’t play through them...but you need runners up front.

  • could we have gone Webster, Kalas, Baker...could Kalas be the non-marker?  I think he has it in his locker to be a non-warrior.  
  • Or Wright, Kalas, Webster?

Maybe Preston was a bad game to go 352....and we shouldn’t base it on that.

The RWB thoughts:

  • could Brownhill play RWB...we shouldn’t need it with Hunt, he ought to be the 1st choice, but at least cover

The LWB thoughts:

  • Dasilva the natural, but O’Dowda and Kelly capable.

Midfield:

Would like to see a flat 3 in there, thoughts of a 5212, ala Luke Freeman, just leave the 2 CMs exposed as in a 442.  If you had two terriers, maybe, but Pack isn’t.  This is where I could see a 3 for Brownhill (RCM), Pack, O’Dowda (LCM).  Brownhill and O’Dowda able to drift between the lines and join the front two.  Korey Smith would come in in either RCM or CM.

Up Front:

Quite simply a partner for Diedhiou...any of Weimann, Taylor, Palmer, Paterson, Semenyo....or actually any two from 6.  Paterson and Palmer could make one of the midfield 3 to rotate them.  And away from home you might go a bit more 5311.

If this was going to be our new way, I think we could recruit more effectively....but on the flip side, we might as well get rid of our true wingers Eliasson, Watkins and possibly Adelakun.  Eisa too.

I do think we have the players currently available.  

The likes of Vyner and Moore might have more of a chance of playing in a back three.  Morrell and Walsh add cover in the 3 midfield positions also.

 

When you look at the options , it does look promising.

LCB...... to be honest I did kind of forget about Baker. I just assume that Wright would play, as LJ does seem to want to get him in if possible. Kelly , I would be happier seeing him at LCB than at LWB. He looks a bit rabbit in the headlights when faced with open space down the wing. Ipswich away shoes he can do it . I usually put Webster centre of a 3 , mainly because he suites that Beckenbauer type role (one for the kids), he's comfortable bringing the ball out and would leave a solid defence with Kalas and Baker (or Kelly or Wright), in place. Could be a potent weapon if we ever got decent movement around him as he comes out.

The WB's I think depends on opposition and situation. DaSilva is an obvious and natural choice, but I think ODowda could do a job. Kelly , for me , is not a natural fit, he looks to pass back far more often than take the ball forward when space opens up. The added cover of the 3 may give him more confidence, who knows. RWB , I think Hunt could do this easily. Then you have JB, who has done it , although I do think he is wasted a little wide. That said , his levels have dropped recently.

I'm a fan of Walsh, so I'd love to see him given a run in a 3. Pack to sit a little and JB and LW making runs. Alternatively , Korey and Pack with JB or LW would give a more solid feel to it. I like what I've seen from Morrell too , loved that clip from Ipswich away when it's him telling the others to calm down. I think he does deserve more minutes.

I completely agree , a front 2 Fam and anyone else please. 

I really do think this , not just could work , but would work. There are options all over the pitch , and would be easy to adapt to most situations. We do need to change something , at home if not away. We need more threat, and I think Ipswich showed we need to be able to overload MF at times to stop teams playing around us.

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51 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

When you look at the options , it does look promising.

LCB...... to be honest I did kind of forget about Baker. I just assume that Wright would play, as LJ does seem to want to get him in if possible. Kelly , I would be happier seeing him at LCB than at LWB. He looks a bit rabbit in the headlights when faced with open space down the wing. Ipswich away shoes he can do it . I usually put Webster centre of a 3 , mainly because he suites that Beckenbauer type role (one for the kids), he's comfortable bringing the ball out and would leave a solid defence with Kalas and Baker (or Kelly or Wright), in place. Could be a potent weapon if we ever got decent movement around him as he comes out.

The WB's I think depends on opposition and situation. DaSilva is an obvious and natural choice, but I think ODowda could do a job. Kelly , for me , is not a natural fit, he looks to pass back far more often than take the ball forward when space opens up. The added cover of the 3 may give him more confidence, who knows. RWB , I think Hunt could do this easily. Then you have JB, who has done it , although I do think he is wasted a little wide. That said , his levels have dropped recently.

I'm a fan of Walsh, so I'd love to see him given a run in a 3. Pack to sit a little and JB and LW making runs. Alternatively , Korey and Pack with JB or LW would give a more solid feel to it. I like what I've seen from Morrell too , loved that clip from Ipswich away when it's him telling the others to calm down. I think he does deserve more minutes.

I completely agree , a front 2 Fam and anyone else please. 

I really do think this , not just could work , but would work. There are options all over the pitch , and would be easy to adapt to most situations. We do need to change something , at home if not away. We need more threat, and I think Ipswich showed we need to be able to overload MF at times to stop teams playing around us.

That's funny you mentioned Der Kaiser....when I wrote my reply that went through my head re Webster in the middle.  In our country the sweeper tends to only cover the side-CBs, but in the Italian and German games of yesteryear they were instrumental in coming out with the ball centrally.  Webster could easily do that, my only question is whether there is space to do that in the modern game.  I think you could drill that and it would open the midfield up or give option to give easier passes into the midfield or out to the WBs.

Lee - you've got 2 weeks to perfect it!!!!!

 

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