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City18

Drop Diedhou

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Now this is likely a terrible suggestion, but having watched Fam struggle upfront for the last couple of games now being continuously bullied by the oppositions defence, could Marley Watkins be trialled in that role?

He has experience playing up front, is quite a physical player and his touch cannot be any worse than Diedhou's. If not then I'd at least like to see him on the bench to add a physical option when we are next losing a game and resort to just hitting mindless balls into the box.

I also think Diedhou's continuous offsides last night (3 early on) was a large contributing factor into the frustration and later hostile atmosphere at parts yesterday and the guy could do with a rest from the team. Would we have faired better against them last night if we had played with Taylor and Weimann as a front two like we did at the start of the season? I think we would certainly have caused them more problems.

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Scored a fair few headers at Barnsley - Why not use him as an option for a bit more physical presence when we do just resort to long ball again

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5 minutes ago, Super said:

Or just give him a strike partner?

That would be an ideal situation, but I don't think he plays particularly well alongside Weimann or Taylor so maybe the sum of the team without him might be better than having him in the team

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6 minutes ago, City18 said:

That would be an ideal situation, but I don't think he plays particularly well alongside Weimann or Taylor so maybe the sum of the team without him might be better than having him in the team

In what formation- do we decide to sacrifice possession and go for a more counter attacking 4-4-2?

How do our tactics and shape change to necessitate this- does it sacrifice defensive or midfield security and control- though there was little of this last night!

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I would like to see us go back to basics - play a 4-4-2 with Taylor and Semenyo up front just for one half and if not working revert to whatever LJ thinks. Just try something different. It seems when the going gets tough he only trusts the same few faces and they are the ones who look dead on their feet and struggling.

I can’t work out if it’s honourable or stupidity but I know a fair few of our squad surely hand on heart do not see a future here !?!

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21 minutes ago, City18 said:

That would be an ideal situation, but I don't think he plays particularly well alongside Weimann or Taylor so maybe the sum of the team without him might be better than having him in the team

Hang on a minute, are you suggesting playing Taylor over Fammy? 

Taylor’s scoring record is not much better than Franky Fieldings!

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I suggested playing Watkins up front earlier in the season for the same reason, strength, good in the air and touch can't be worse. Pace wise i haven't seen but again can't be any slower. Can imagine he's quite intelligent and will make decent runs. 

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Any striker would struggle up top alone with how we have been currently playing. Nobody is getting near Fam, so it is no wonder he looks isolated, would like to see Palmer come back in now and provide more of an outlet. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In what formation- do we decide to sacrifice possession and go for a more counter attacking 4-4-2?

How do our tactics and shape change to necessitate this- does it sacrifice defensive or midfield security and control- though there was little of this last night!

We just don't seem to be making anything of our possession any more. We used to play fast flowing football, switching the ball quickly and hammering their wings and the midfield was picking out killer passes. We are now lethargically passing the ball around the back before lumping the ball at Diedhou. We are being tightly marked up top, not doing enough creative movement and the killer passes are no longer their. We still seem to pump mindless crosses into the box as our main form of attack, yet how many are Diedhou winning? Paterson is currently our main support to Diedhou but he doesn't ever win a header. On a number of occasions when diedhou missed the ball it ends up going over Eliassons head. We need more physical presence in the box.

If we are not making all this possession work for us anymore than yeah maybe we sacrifice the possession and go more direct. Currently, oppositions are putting both centre backs to bully diedhou and then the full backs can push further forward and limit us for space.  

5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Is Watkins fit to play?

Probably not. He's been a sick note all season.

He played and scored for the reserves against forest a week or so ago I believe

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8 minutes ago, City18 said:

We just don't seem to be making anything of our possession any more. We used to play fast flowing football, switching the ball quickly and hammering their wings and the midfield was picking out killer passes. We are now lethargically passing the ball around the back before lumping the ball at Diedhou. We are being tightly marked up top, not doing enough creative movement and the killer passes are no longer their. We still seem to pump mindless crosses into the box as our main form of attack, yet how many are Diedhou winning? Paterson is currently our main support to Diedhou but he doesn't ever win a header. On a number of occasions when diedhou missed the ball it ends up going over Eliassons head. We need more physical presence in the box.

If we are not making all this possession work for us anymore than yeah maybe we sacrifice the possession and go more direct. Currently, oppositions are putting both centre backs to bully diedhou and then the full backs can push further forward and limit us for space.  

He played and scored for the reserves against forest a week or so ago I believe

What possession? Certainly no dominance of it since Birmingham at home or Wolves 2nd half. Vs Leeds 46%, vs Ipswich at home 50% or thereabouts, Norwich away it was 41% and at Preston it was a little above 50%. Agree though we definitely seem to be doing less with the ball, but maybe more direct- but I dunno about direct but counterattacking definitely would be something I'd consider as a necessary tradeoff for playing a legitimate 4-4-2. 4-4-2, intense pressing in certain zones and fast turnovers maybe...in any case the balance feels wrong to me.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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6 minutes ago, City18 said:

 

He played and scored for the reserves against forest a week or so ago I believe

Can't be fully fit otherwise he would surely be on the bench?

Edited by cidered abroad

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10 minutes ago, swanker said:

Hang on a minute, are you suggesting playing Taylor over Fammy? 

Taylor’s scoring record is not much better than Franky Fieldings!

Purely off stats this season,

Fammy 2489 minutes played - 11 Goals - 3 Assists (226 mins per goal) (830 mins per assist) (178 mins per goal/assist)

Taylor 1101 minutes played - 3 Goals - 5 Assists (367 mins per goal) (220 mins per assist) (137 mins per goal/assist)

 

While he may get fewer goals, he contributes considerably more to the team

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15 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

I suggested playing Watkins up front earlier in the season for the same reason, strength, good in the air and touch can't be worse. Pace wise i haven't seen but again can't be any slower. Can imagine he's quite intelligent and will make decent runs. 

I just find Diedhou so frustrating to watch. Touch is atrocious, very selfish player and forever offside. Also for a player in the team playing a target man role, he very rarely wins a header or if he does it doesn't go to a team mate

Got to be worth a try

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Fam isn't the issue to me. Our main issue is that Pack and Brownhill are running on empty having played the vast majority of games. Morell / Walsh (injuries aside) could cover but they are just that at the moment - cover, in that P + B are a cut above when on form. 

As I've said elsewhere the extended break will benefit them more than anybody else. I can only imagine how our season would have gone had we had Smith to rotate with them all season...not withstanding we are still doing v well anyway.

Edited by steveybadger
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3 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Fam isn't the issue to me. Our main issue is that Pack and Brownhill are running on empty having played the vast majority of games. Morell / Walsh (injuries aside) could cover but they are just that at the moment - cover, in that P + B are a cut above when on form. 

As I've said elsewhere the extended break will benefit them more than anybody else. I can only imagine how our season would have gone had we had Smith to rotate with them all season...not withstanding we are still doing v well anyway.

Smith I believe played a full 90 for the reserves the other day, unless this is a youth with surname Smith?

Will be great to get him back in, a genuine first team challenger

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Only seen Watkins once recently, total wet blanket, but who knows ? Given a chance in the middle could be a different story  - worth a try (but FFS not in the last 10 minutes with the game all but gone!)

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Lj has to try something differant , its a hard watch at the minute going through the motions , we have taylor , watkins , adelukan , semenyo , morrell , why did we let hegelar go when he was primarilly a cm option ? 

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12 minutes ago, City18 said:

I just find Diedhou so frustrating to watch. Touch is atrocious, very selfish player and forever offside. Also for a player in the team playing a target man role, he very rarely wins a header or if he does it doesn't go to a team mate

Got to be worth a try

He's had far more poor games then good ones. He can't seem to stay on his feet when he's got the ball or it just bounces off him. Not much movement either. From that YouTube video Watkins doesn't look bad and has a bit of pace. A few of those goals he scored Famara would've lost control of the ball before getting into the box!

Edited by paul_fox

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1 hour ago, City18 said:

 also think Diedhou's continuous offsides last night (3 early on) 

In fairness - 1 the replay showed he was onside. 1 was touch and go and the other we didn’t get a replay of... so he could have possibly been onside in all 3!

 

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11 minutes ago, City18 said:

Smith I believe played a full 90 for the reserves the other day, unless this is a youth with surname Smith?

Will be great to get him back in, a genuine first team challenger

Harvey Smith? CB recalled from his loan at Hereford on 1st March perhaps?

https://www.herefordfc.co.uk/news-harvey-smith-returns-to-bristol-city/

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5 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

In fairness - 1 the replay showed he was onside. 1 was touch and go and the other we didn’t get a replay of... so he could have possibly been onside in all 3!

 

Ah sadly didn't get the joys of the replay at the game - just trusted the lines man. Just didn't seem to be in particularly promising or attacking positions so no need to be pressing the line this tightly

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We seriously lack any strike force. Think our season and hope of making the top 6 is buggered because of it.

Again last night Famara was awful.

Nearly everything breaks down when the ball goes to him.

Even if he wins the ball in his 50/50 battle with his opponent, the ball the majority of the time is lost in the next transition.

He simply doesn't suit our system of play imo.

He's not good with ball to feet, and not the best at winning crosses.

So LJ could play through the lines or from out wide with crosses...the result will still be the same...average to poor for the standard we are looking for which is top 6.

He's good at defending set pieces and unsettling defenders during our set pieces...but that's pretty much it imo.

Everyone loves a trier...but he isn't what we need for a Promotion push.

Please prove me wrong Famara.

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Fammy is one of our hardest working players. Leading the line on his own he often gets battered but still puts the effort in. He's often too isolated for the midfield/wingers to feed of him

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2 hours ago, City18 said:

Now this is likely a terrible suggestion, but having watched Fam struggle upfront for the last couple of games now being continuously bullied by the oppositions defence, could Marley Watkins be trialled in that role?

He has experience playing up front, is quite a physical player and his touch cannot be any worse than Diedhou's. If not then I'd at least like to see him on the bench to add a physical option when we are next losing a game and resort to just hitting mindless balls into the box.

I also think Diedhou's continuous offsides last night (3 early on) was a large contributing factor into the frustration and later hostile atmosphere at parts yesterday and the guy could do with a rest from the team. Would we have faired better against them last night if we had played with Taylor and Weimann as a front two like we did at the start of the season? I think we would certainly have caused them more problems.

Anybody bar him ffs Mo Eisa the one an only  6th minute sub appearance at Bolton would be a better shout

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The entire point of having a larger squad is to rotate out-of-form players out, and to bring players on the outside into the first-team squad.

I think Deidhou is doing fine, but we've got other options that should be considered, and if Deidhou is out of form he should be dropped.

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We have no one of comparable ability to come in. Diedhou isnt messi, but hes by far our most effective forward. It didnt take a genius to work out in January what we needed and it didnt happen. If you want to blame someone for that, ashton, lj and sl are where you look, not diedhou.

likewise, whoever thought that forward options of weimann, watkins, taylor and eisa would allow us to be competitive in the championship needs their heads read. Thats about 5 million quids worth of deadwood that no one will want to take off our hands.

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He needs a striker playing around him. Do people still think we aren't missing Bobby Reid?!

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This is why he will not be dropped - Wiemann has played similar amount of minutes and scored 5 less.

Do you want us to try and finish in the top 6 or not?

Screenshot_20190313-131742_Samsung Internet.jpg

Edited by Taz

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6 minutes ago, Taz said:

This is why he will not be dropped - Wiemann has played similar amount of minutes and scored 5 less.

Do you want us to try and finish in the top 6 or not?

Screenshot_20190313-131742_Samsung Internet.jpg

When you factor in goal + assist though? The equation changes...

Diedhiou still the more productive of the 2, but the gap undoubtedly narrows.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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The lack of support and service he gets gives a him bad image. One up top, against 2 centre backs is s tough ask. We either play balls up to him that if he wins there isn’t often anyone to lay it off to. Or we play along the lines looking for runners in behind. That’s not his game I don’t think. Feel sorry for him it that regard. We miss Bobby Reid a lot in both these cases. Could Semenyo play that role? Possibly from what I’ve seen. Paterson and Taylor don’t have that in their game. 

Edited by Redbo

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12 minutes ago, Taz said:

This is why he will not be dropped - Wiemann has played similar amount of minutes and scored 5 less.

Do you want us to try and finish in the top 6 or not?

Screenshot_20190313-131742_Samsung Internet.jpg

But Weimann has not been played as solo striker since Fammy returned.

Weimann is played out wide - a position he didn't score many goals at Derby and, surprise, surprise, he isn't scoring from here.

Weimann can only score as an out and out striker, not a pretend winger.

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Perhaps if we stopped bringing him back for every corner and free kick in and around the box he would not look so done in and be able to make a few positive runs. After  the ball is cleared he's then expected to get forward to receive it. 

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2 hours ago, City18 said:

I just find Diedhou so frustrating to watch. Touch is atrocious, very selfish player and forever offside. Also for a player in the team playing a target man role, he very rarely wins a header or if he does it doesn't go to a team mate

Got to be worth a try

I guy of late 70s sits next to me and he used to just smile at me when FD fell over under little pressure now he's actually got to the point of finding it hard to contain his laughter..... 2 quality strikers 2 quality CM and someone to replace TK in the summer if we're serious next year about our ambitions as over the coming weeks will simply fade away. 

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40 minutes ago, Taz said:

This is why he will not be dropped - Wiemann has played similar amount of minutes and scored 5 less.

Do you want us to try and finish in the top 6 or not?

Screenshot_20190313-131742_Samsung Internet.jpg

This also doesn't account for the fact Weimann is primarily not being played as a striker, instead playing out on the wing.

Interestingly when played up top for Aston villa primarily in the Premier League he scored 12 goals and got 6 assists in 2772 minutes of football, a goal return similar to that of Famara this season in the league with more assists too.

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3 hours ago, spudski said:

We seriously lack any strike force. Think our season and hope of making the top 6 is buggered because of it.

Again last night Famara was awful.

Nearly everything breaks down when the ball goes to him.

Even if he wins the ball in his 50/50 battle with his opponent, the ball the majority of the time is lost in the next transition.

He simply doesn't suit our system of play imo.

He's not good with ball to feet, and not the best at winning crosses.

So LJ could play through the lines or from out wide with crosses...the result will still be the same...average to poor for the standard we are looking for which is top 6.

He's good at defending set pieces and unsettling defenders during our set pieces...but that's pretty much it imo.

Everyone loves a trier...but he isn't what we need for a Promotion push.

Please prove me wrong Famara.

How would you set up for the remaining games then? 

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2 hours ago, Redbo said:

The lack of support and service he gets gives a him bad image. One up top, against 2 centre backs is s tough ask. We either play balls up to him that if he wins there isn’t often anyone to lay it off to. Or we play along the lines looking for runners in behind. That’s not his game I don’t think. Feel sorry for him it that regard. We miss Bobby Reid a lot in both these cases. Could Semenyo play that role? Possibly from what I’ve seen. Paterson and Taylor don’t have that in their game. 

In all fairness he did  play a lot better when Semenyo came on at Preston. It gave their two centre backs more to do and gave Fam more space.

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I would be tempted to drop Wiemann and Diedhou , they both try hard but aren't very clinical or good.

I would start with Matty up top with Palmer in the number ten role, Play O'Dowda and Elliason out deep, and Brownhill and Pack in the middle. Then Webster, Kalas at the back with Da Silva and Hunt as wingbacks. Max in goal. 

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6 hours ago, City18 said:

Scored a fair few headers at Barnsley - Why not use him as an option for a bit more physical presence when we do just resort to long ball again

Christ ! No way is that the Watkins that we signed.

This guy looks sensational compared to the Watkins I've seen playing for us.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Christ ! No way is that the Watkins that we signed.

This guy looks sensational compared to the Watkins I've seen playing for us.

 

 

Tbf has Watkins actually been given a chance ? He's had 5-10 minute cameos at most. 

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5 hours ago, City18 said:

I just find Diedhou so frustrating to watch. Touch is atrocious, very selfish player and forever offside. Also for a player in the team playing a target man role, he very rarely wins a header or if he does it doesn't go to a team mate

Got to be worth a try

At the moment, it's even worse than that - it's super-kalas-tragic-Johnson-Diedhiou is atrocious.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

When you factor in goal + assist though? The equation changes...

Diedhiou still the more productive of the 2, but the gap undoubtedly narrows.

This is true, but with the price tag taken into consideration as well, he isn't going to be benched. I think its also no coincidence that when the team play better, so does Fam. He's just not good enough when others around him are below par, and that in turn shows off his weaknesses more - first touch etc.

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

But Weimann has not been played as solo striker since Fammy returned.

Weimann is played out wide - a position he didn't score many goals at Derby and, surprise, surprise, he isn't scoring from here.

Weimann can only score as an out and out striker, not a pretend winger.

Again true, but when he does get a chance in a match, he's hardly clinical either.

2 hours ago, City18 said:

This also doesn't account for the fact Weimann is primarily not being played as a striker, instead playing out on the wing.

Interestingly when played up top for Aston villa primarily in the Premier League he scored 12 goals and got 6 assists in 2772 minutes of football, a goal return similar to that of Famara this season in the league with more assists too.

See above. If he was getting into positions and scoring from them, you could argue that he should be playing alongside/instead of Fam.

 

His best spell for us was at the beginning of the season when Fam was suspended, but the goals did dry up. Yes he was moved out of being the primary striker, but when he has played he's hardly setting the place alight himself.

 

Fact remains that we are missing Reid, and haven't replaced him.

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7 hours ago, Super said:

Or just give him a strike partner?

Yes, yes and yet more yes! He is isolated so can be teamed up on, having someone else there to make the opposition defence split their concentration and attention, it's so bloody obvious it's infuriating! Especially if that other person can control the ball and shoot on target

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2 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

How would you set up for the remaining games then? 

I really don't think we can change it now...it is what it is.

We've done well to be in 6th place...built around a strong defence.

I think we've become confused up front.

 

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