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Rich

The Kiwi keeper

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Let's be positive, I'll start.

His first game at championship level which is frenetic. This was his first game in months, cut him some slack

His kicking was bad but, it was into the wind and others (remember Webster) misplaced passes all night and they didn't have to kick into the wind every time.

Ipswich new he'd be a little slow, so closed down really quickly. So many times they reached him as he received the ball.

Our players never helped him by playing too slow, or too fast passes back to him.

His first touch was bad on two/three occasions, others he was fine, he'll get quicker.

His catching was ok and he pulled of some good saves and one very good save.

I predict he'll turn into a very good signing for us.

Be positive.

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9 minutes ago, Rich said:

Let's be positive, I'll start.

His first game at championship level which is frenetic. This was his first game in months, cut him some slack

His kicking was bad but, it was into the wind and others (remember Webster) misplaced passes all night and they didn't have to kick into the wind every time.

Ipswich new he'd be a little slow, so closed down really quickly. So many times they reached him as he received the ball.

Our players never helped him by playing too slow, or too fast passes back to him.

His first touch was bad on two/three occasions, others he was fine, he'll get quicker.

His catching was ok and he pulled of some good saves and one very good save.

I predict he'll turn into a very good signing for us.

Be positive.

Think between all the criticism in various threads on Tuesday there were a few comments re mitigating factors.

Having watched him in the practice net on Saturday I'd say:

  1. he likes to punch it out like most continental keepers 
  2. he gets down well for a big guy, especially those in the awkward spot just outside the “stop it with an outstretched foot” zone
  3. pribsbly needs to lose a few pounds (don’t we all)

He will have to adapt very quickly to the stuff with his feet though.

I don’t think Lee has helped either of our two fit keeper’s confidence with comments over the past 2 games...nor the insight that each has 45 minutes to prove who is no1 with a friendly v Cardiff on Saturday.

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I'll make a comparison. Max won't come off his line when the ball is about to reach an opposition player near to goal. Marinovic seems to like a tackle and comes to collect or kick, even if he's lacking a little pace at the moment.

He seems to have the more natural ability desire needed to play in goal.

Of course, I could be wrong and that's as good as it gets, I doubt that though. 

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Don't make excuses - he was the worst keeper I've seen at Ashton Gate and I've been going since 1967!  It was panic stations every time the ball went near him and the defence were unsettled by his antics.

I really hope he never plays for us again.

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8 minutes ago, !james said:

 

Three slow bouncing back passes and each closed down quickly by an Ipswich player and a punch out which went straight up in the air. The wind had got worse in the second half so kicking was affected by the wind especially when hurried. We never closed their keeper down, or put him under the same pressure to test him in those conditions.

I'll reserve judgement and give him a chance, you don't play at the level he has by being a donkey. He needs to sharpen up pretty quickly though.

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Let’s give the lad another game as the pressure was on him on his debut and having had little time to get to know his team mates etc.. The break will allow him to do that and relax a bit. May pay us to put him in an U23 game if there is one before the next Championship game. There is a good keeper there so let’s not write him off to soon.

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3 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Don't make excuses - he was the worst keeper I've seen at Ashton Gate and I've been going since 1967!  It was panic stations every time the ball went near him and the defence were unsettled by his antics.

I really hope he never plays for us again.

Started watching the same time as me then. You are of course entitled to your opinion, which is based on one match, played in very blustery conditions, in a new team, a new league and put under pressure by under hit passes and quickly closed down by the opposition.

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Thought he pulled off some good saves and looked to move the ball out quick when in his hands, but not confident kicking under pressure. The last 5 minutes with several bad kicks when we were desperate to kick a goal have tainted what was not a bad debut with the exception of the 1st minute.

Think we are missing Niki massively as he gives the defence the confidence to push on along with his quick distribution, it's no coincidence our run finished without him.

 

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57 minutes ago, WECANDO said:

Let’s give the lad another game as the pressure was on him on his debut and having had little time to get to know his team mates etc.. The break will allow him to do that and relax a bit. May pay us to put him in an U23 game if there is one before the next Championship game. There is a good keeper there so let’s not write him off to soon.

Not sure if you’ve seen / heard, but LJ told Gregor that City are playing Cardiff in a behind closed doors game on Saturday.  Max and Stefan get 45 minutes each to prove they’re the no1.

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1 hour ago, Rich said:

I'll reserve judgement and give him a chance, you don't play at the level he has by being a donkey. He needs to sharpen up pretty quickly though.

What level is that? He’s spent the majority of his career in the German 4th tier and was released from the MLS after a year...

The New Zealand national side is also absolutely tragic so not giving him that either...

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14 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

What level is that? He’s spent the majority of his career in the German 4th tier and was released from the MLS after a year...

The New Zealand national side is also absolutely tragic so not giving him that either...

 

This I believe is a Semi-Pro league too. Doesn't surprise me after Tuesday

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1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Don't make excuses - he was the worst keeper I've seen at Ashton Gate and I've been going since 1967!  It was panic stations every time the ball went near him and the defence were unsettled by his antics.

I really hope he never plays for us again.

Frankie had a nightmare debut - cost us a goal directly from a hideous error - but we stuck by him and he came good...at least this Kiwi guy’s antics didn’t cost us a goal....

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9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Frankie had a nightmare debut - cost us a goal directly from a hideous error - but we stuck by him and he came good...at least this Kiwi guy’s antics didn’t cost us a goal....

Frankie had a nightmare first few months and it took him a while to come good... but at least he came in with a good reputation from Derby and had earned 12 caps for the u21’s. We also had him on a 3 year deal and were playing in the league below so was worth persisting, although he did spend a fair bit of time out the side in that first season.

Marinovic clearly isn’t good enough and I’d say theres a very high chance he never will be. We’re pushing for promotion and can’t afford to chuck goals away for the sake of bedding someone in who won’t even be here past May. O’Leary must come back in.

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2 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Frankie had a nightmare first few months and it took him a while to come good... but at least he came in with a good reputation from Derby and had earned 12 caps for the u21’s. We also had him on a 3 year deal and were playing in the league below so was worth persisting, although he did spend a fair bit of time out the side in that first season.

Marinovic clearly isn’t good enough and I’d say theres a very high chance he never will be. We’re pushing for promotion and can’t afford to chuck goals away for the sake of bedding someone in who won’t even be here past May. O’Leary must come back in.

Yep Frankie had caps for England U21s when he joined us and this Kiwi keeper has 24 full international caps and has also played in the U20 World Cup. I’m not saying he should take Max’s place, I really couldn’t see why he took Max’s place to start with, another mind-boggling decision by LJ....but I just gave the example of Frankie’s debut as to why someone shouldn’t be written off after one game...

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48 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

What level is that? He’s spent the majority of his career in the German 4th tier and was released from the MLS after a year...

The New Zealand national side is also absolutely tragic so not giving him that either...

I don't think he's been in the NZ team since 2017

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2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Yep Frankie had caps for England U21s when he joined us and this Kiwi keeper has 24 full international caps and has also played in the U20 World Cup. I’m not saying he should take Max’s place, I really couldn’t see why he took Max’s place to start with, another mind-boggling decision by LJ....but I just gave the example of Frankie’s debut as to why someone shouldn’t be written off after one game...

As I mentioned previously let’s not big up his caps for New Zealand (who haven’t even called him up since 2017), as the standard is horrendous. Currently sat in the rankings one place above Tajikistan in 119th, and 5 places behind Sierra Leone who our academy keeper Sesay has been getting called up to. Recent results include a draw against the Solomon Islands, a defeat to Kenya and a 1-0 win over the mighty Chinese Taipei...

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54 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

The New Zealand national side is also absolutely tragic so not giving him that either...

New Zealand were the only undefeated team at the 2010 World Cup.....

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After this season, he will be gone. Adequate as a desperation signing, but very unlikely to make the grade. Personally I would give Max some game time, he did OK earlier in the season, and will, most likely, still be a City player next season.

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3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

New Zealand were the only undefeated team at the 2010 World Cup.....

Read my post above. 9 years is clearly a long time in football...

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3 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Read my post above. 9 years is clearly a long time in football...

And you incorrectly said the Kiwi spent the majority of his career in the 4th tier of German football - he played more games in their 3rd tier than any other....again, like Frankie who has spent the majority of his career at tier 3 or below...this new keeper can’t help his nationality so there is absolutely zero point in slagging off the international team of the country he has played for 24 times...all I originally said was, writing someone off after one game can sometimes be wrong...

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First touch when played to feet was awful. Very difficult night for kicking out wide accurately. His quick distribution from hands was very good I thought. 

Yes he likes to punch: many do. At least he didn't punch straight down to an opponents feet, like Max  did on Saturday!

Made three of four decent saves, and held onto the ball on a wet and windy night.

He's our 4th choice, emergency, keeper - what do people expect?!

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Was a poor performance don’t get me wrong but I don’t blame Marinovic whatsoever, LJ should of never dropped Max in the first place, hasn’t put a foot wrong, then to come out and say after Tuesday’s game that it was already planned that Max would play v Leeds and Marinovic v Ipswich well and truly stunned me! What an awful way of managing. The club had their hands tied when bringing in another keeper as we could only bring in one on a free transfer, not too many around and had to get one in sharpish. Signed Marinovic who hasn’t played a game for 5 months, never played in England, or even at a decent level, had been with us for not even a week so doesn’t know his team mates or get used to how we play,yet LJ somehow came to a decision that it would be a great idea to throw him straight in at the deep end. Along with playing 4 at the back and a lone striker v the leagues bottom side that was a shocker from start to finish for LJ, about time he held his hands up for some of these huge mistakes that everyone can see bar himself, maybe that’s what Macca was having a pop at him for?

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Yes I think it has been a massive overreaction by many(me included!). He probably is not that bad and I get we needed another one in with Maenpaa and FF out for the season. That said, think it should be Max’s shirt until he loses it with his own mistakes. Max has seen us through 4-5 games this season relatively comfortably and why not continue? 

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14 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

Was a poor performance don’t get me wrong but I don’t blame Marinovic whatsoever, LJ should of never dropped Max in the first place, hasn’t put a foot wrong, then to come out and say after Tuesday’s game that it was already planned that Max would play v Leeds and Marinovic v Ipswich well and truly stunned me! What an awful way of managing. The club had their hands tied when bringing in another keeper as we could only bring in one on a free transfer, not too many around and had to get one in sharpish. Signed Marinovic who hasn’t played a game for 5 months, never played in England, or even at a decent level, had been with us for not even a week so doesn’t know his team mates or get used to how we play,yet LJ somehow came to a decision that it would be a great idea to throw him straight in at the deep end. Along with playing 4 at the back and a lone striker v the leagues bottom side that was a shocker from start to finish for LJ, about time he held his hands up for some of these huge mistakes that everyone can see bar himself, maybe that’s what Macca was having a pop at him for?

100%.  What a way to manage the position that is so reliant on confidence.  Been very complimentary of Lee of late, but this decision he got completely wrong.  The Semenyo start on LM/LW was another, and tainted my excitement of him starting when I realised the position he was being asked to play.

Two weeks Lee to go back to clarity of selection with hopefully a recovered group of players.

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9 hours ago, !james said:

 

I was hoping for a top six finish but recent results have knocked my confidence a bit Having watched this footage I think we’ve had it now. Shame really, the playoffs would have a fantastic end to the season.  

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if you’ve seen / heard, but LJ told Gregor that City are playing Cardiff in a behind closed doors game on Saturday.  Max and Stefan get 45 minutes each to prove they’re the no1.

Then the man truly is an idiot in reference to man management-

Clueless.

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7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

And you incorrectly said the Kiwi spent the majority of his career in the 4th tier of German football - he played more games in their 3rd tier than any other....again, like Frankie who has spent the majority of his career at tier 3 or below...this new keeper can’t help his nationality so there is absolutely zero point in slagging off the international team of the country he has played for 24 times...all I originally said was, writing someone off after one game can sometimes be wrong...

Erm, no he didn’t. He played 30 odd games for SV Wehen Wiesbaden’s reserves, the actual first team side were in the 3rd tier whom he played for twice. All his other appearances came in 3 seasons for SpVgg Unterhaching, who were relegated from the third tier in his first season and then spent the next 2 in the fourth.

He can’t help his nationality of course but that doesn’t mean his caps are noteable.

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38 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Erm, no he didn’t. He played 30 odd games for SV Wehen Wiesbaden’s reserves, the actual first team side were in the 3rd tier whom he played for twice. All his other appearances came in 3 seasons for SpVgg Unterhaching, who were relegated from the third tier in his first season and then spent the next 2 in the fourth.

He can’t help his nationality of course but that doesn’t mean his caps are noteable.

Apologies, I thought SpVgg Unterhaching were in the third tier when this keeper was there. Anyway, all I was saying in my original post was that Frankie’s debut proves you shouldn’t write off someone after just one game.

That’s all - but you’ve just basically slagged off the New Zealand team, quoting their recent results as some sort of justification why a Kiwi keeper is rubbish. Yet you’ve also acknowledged that Marinovic hasn’t played for NZ for a couple of years, so their recent results obviously cannot be down to him.

Anyway, this has gone too far off piste, I said someone shouldn’t be written off after just one game....that’s all. Have a good weekend, cheers...

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1 hour ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Erm, no he didn’t. He played 30 odd games for SV Wehen Wiesbaden’s reserves, the actual first team side were in the 3rd tier whom he played for twice. All his other appearances came in 3 seasons for SpVgg Unterhaching, who were relegated from the third tier in his first season and then spent the next 2 in the fourth.

He can’t help his nationality of course but that doesn’t mean his caps are noteable.

 SpVgg Unterhaching have a lot in common with Bristol City. If we ever played them in Germany in a pre-season friendly the local wits in SpVgg would call it SpVgg Unteraching v BCFC Unterachieving.

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14 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

 SpVgg Unterhaching have a lot in common with Bristol City. If we ever played them in Germany in a pre-season friendly the local wits in SpVgg would call it SpVgg Unteraching v BCFC Unterachieving.

It's not often you get wordplay in German on here.  And I have to say that is my favourite of the day so far. 😛

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2 minutes ago, marmite said:

He obviously wasn't up to championship speed so LJ shouldn't have played him. Managers fault. End of.

Yep, definitely wasn’t ready....we don’t know if he is good enough either, but in terms of signing a GK for cover, beggars can’t be choosers.

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A lot of people on here were saying Maenpaa was rubbish before he'd kicked a ball in the Summer. I think he's got to be given another chance, we didn't lose the game because of him he had no chance from Kelly's shot. Although he's not played at a high level club-wise he's played in some big games for New Zealand against top players. Given we've got a top goalkeeping coach I saw enough there for him to work with, LJ may be considering him as our number 2 for next season if as seems possible Frankie is being released. I like Max as well but he does look a bit inexperienced and nervous in the heat of battle. 

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11 hours ago, italian dave said:

First touch when played to feet was awful. Very difficult night for kicking out wide accurately. His quick distribution from hands was very good I thought. 

Yes he likes to punch: many do. At least he didn't punch straight down to an opponents feet, like Max  did on Saturday!

Made three of four decent saves, and held onto the ball on a wet and windy night.

He's our 4th choice, emergency, keeper - what do people expect?!

What do people expect?

A pro who demonstrates the behaviours the team needs. 

How do the team play? How does this player play? Do the technical attributes meet? 

I have read the thread and others and it's unclear what this keeper is good at. Prior to being signed the questions above should be covered.

Very good players and average can have the crisis of confidence this keeper had. Confidence is fed by ability. If the player lacks ability he will not to be able to carry out team tasks and performances like the keepers can then be logically expected.

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Anyone writing the new keeper off after 1 game, with 5 days training with the team, with no competitive game for months, is absolutely bananas.

Almost as bananas as LJ for playing him.

Thank God he didn't cost us a goal.  Of course the keeper should get another chance, after training with the team for a few weeks, with no pressure of games to contend with, just like this two week period we have now.

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8 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

What do people expect?

A pro who demonstrates the behaviours the team needs. 

How do the team play? How does this player play? Do the technical attributes meet? 

I have read the thread and others and it's unclear what this keeper is good at. Prior to being signed the questions above should be covered.

Very good players and average can have the crisis of confidence this keeper had. Confidence is fed by ability. If the player lacks ability he will not to be able to carry out team tasks and performances like the keepers can then be logically expected.

 No-one's going to argue with any of that, but the implication (I'm not sure whether that's yours, but it certainly seems to be the view of some) that he doesn't have the attributes, he's not good at anything, the club didn't consider his abilities, behind his lack of confidence is a lack of ability etc, is just such an over-reaction. 

He simply wasn't that bad. He screwed up two backpasses to feet, well anyone who was at Huddersfield a couple of years ago will tell you FF can easily do that, and cost you a goal. He punched when he might have caught, but at least he didn't punch straight down to an opposing forward as Max did on Sat. He didn't manage the defence like a good keeper does, well hardly surprising he's only just met most of them. Other than that he did OK. 

And as for the club, no they possibly haven't done their homework to the degree they'd have liked, but they probably didn't expect to be having to look for an emergency keeper at this stage of the season. 

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11 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

Was a poor performance don’t get me wrong but I don’t blame Marinovic whatsoever, LJ should of never dropped Max in the first place, hasn’t put a foot wrong, then to come out and say after Tuesday’s game that it was already planned that Max would play v Leeds and Marinovic v Ipswich well and truly stunned me! What an awful way of managing. The club had their hands tied when bringing in another keeper as we could only bring in one on a free transfer, not too many around and had to get one in sharpish. Signed Marinovic who hasn’t played a game for 5 months, never played in England, or even at a decent level, had been with us for not even a week so doesn’t know his team mates or get used to how we play,yet LJ somehow came to a decision that it would be a great idea to throw him straight in at the deep end. Along with playing 4 at the back and a lone striker v the leagues bottom side that was a shocker from start to finish for LJ, about time he held his hands up for some of these huge mistakes that everyone can see bar himself, maybe that’s what Macca was having a pop at him for?

Agree with most of what you say, but I think the suggestion that Max hasn't put a foot wrong is a little rose tinted! Others could have done better in the build up to Leeds goal, but Max was far from blameless too. And his punching was awful, not only unnecessary on at least one occasion, but no height, no distance, no power, and at least one could potentially have cost a goal. 

I agree though, still would have played him on Tuesday, I think he's done enough for us to have that level of confidence in him. 

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14 hours ago, Rich said:

Let's be positive, I'll start.

His first game at championship level which is frenetic. This was his first game in months, cut him some slack

His kicking was bad but, it was into the wind and others (remember Webster) misplaced passes all night and they didn't have to kick into the wind every time.

Ipswich new he'd be a little slow, so closed down really quickly. So many times they reached him as he received the ball.

Our players never helped him by playing too slow, or too fast passes back to him.

His first touch was bad on two/three occasions, others he was fine, he'll get quicker.

His catching was ok and he pulled of some good saves and one very good save.

I predict he'll turn into a very good signing for us.

Be positive.

Yeh right,! 

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I'm normally very supportive of Johnson's decisions, but he 100% got this one wrong. 

Don't blame the player at all, it was crazy for him to be dropped in to that situation, especially considering we now have almost three weeks without a game, for him to get up to speed in training/friendlies. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

What do people expect?

A pro who demonstrates the behaviours the team needs. 

How do the team play? How does this player play? Do the technical attributes meet? 

I have read the thread and others and it's unclear what this keeper is good at. Prior to being signed the questions above should be covered.

Very good players and average can have the crisis of confidence this keeper had. Confidence is fed by ability. If the player lacks ability he will not to be able to carry out team tasks and performances like the keepers can then be logically expected.

Did you actually watch the game?  And do you have any idea what you are saying?

I imagine you can list half a dozen great goalkeepers, with all the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

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Should we leave this thread alone as I expect that Stefan Marinovic is feeling as devastated as all Kiwis (and all other moderate people) following the atrocity in Christchurch NZ.

Edited by cidered abroad

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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Should we leave this thread alone as I expect that Stefan Marinovic is feeling as devastated as all Kiwis (and all other moderate people) following the atrocity in Christchurch NZ.

Oh give over.

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4 hours ago, Chivs said:

Did you actually watch the game?  And do you have any idea what you are saying?

I imagine you can list half a dozen great goalkeepers, with all the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

Yes and yes.

It  would be hard to create a list of affordable players with     ALL the desired attributes, which is why I would not do so. 

I also did not use the word great. 

It is is easier to look at key qualities of the player and the team needs. The keeper in question may not be at ease  playing out to feet and hitting wide areas.  His other attributes could outweigh that consideration. It's a normal  process of recruitment. 

If  I asked you what are this keepers key skills? Very frequently you or another would be able to highlight what they are. In this case it appears people do not know what this keepers qualities are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Yes and yes.

It  would be hard to create a list of affordable players with     ALL the desired attributes, which is why I would not do so. 

I also did not use the word great. 

It is is easier to look at key qualities of the player and the team needs. The keeper in question may not be at ease  playing out to feet and hitting wide areas.  His other attributes could outweigh that consideration. It's a normal  process of recruitment. 

If  I asked you what are this keepers key skills? Very frequently you or another would be able to highlight what they are. In this case it appears people do not know what this keepers qualities are.

 

 

So you are saying that this recruitment is very suspect because people do not know what this keeper's qualities are.  Rightio.

I'll ask again in a slightly different way:  can you list one affordable goalkeeper, with some of the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

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19 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

What level is that? He’s spent the majority of his career in the German 4th tier and was released from the MLS after a year...

The New Zealand national side is also absolutely tragic so not giving him that either...

Actually a higher regular level than the other option we have. Unfortunately Max is a shrinking violet when it comes to getting down and dirty regards having the desire to stop the ball going in the net. I've seen enough of him to know that he's quite confident with the ball at his feet, the other parts of the goal keepers skills come naturally to some and some have to learn them, he is still in the learning camp. He's played only seven games for us where results aren't too impressive, we've won two drawn one but lost four. I don't think Max is particularly brave, so is more likely to stay on his line than risk getting too close to the striker, two goals have been scored against him at the South Stand goal where he could and should have come out and at least narrowed the angle, the most recent being against Leeds where he should have dived forward to cut out the header across goal, or come forward to narrow the angle, he decided to jump up in the air like a startled kitten. The other was against Stoke, where the bloke had time to bring the ball down on his chest on the six yard line and volley past Max as he stood on his line. I don't think either of the other three keepers would have been as slow in putting their bodies at risk to stop a goal bound attempt. So, rather than write the bigger keeper off straight away, I'm prepared to give him a chance, as I'm very sure that Max aint up to the task of being a 1st team goalie just yet.

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31 minutes ago, Chivs said:

So you are saying that this recruitment is very suspect because people do not know what this keeper's qualities are.  Rightio.

I'll ask again in a slightly different way:  can you list one affordable goalkeeper, with some of the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

 

Rightio I was pointing out how little people know about this player and what his skills are. 

If the intent is for City to play out? Does the player possess that ability? What attributes do you think the team needs in a keeper?

Last season around march I suggested signing a keeper available on a free -  Tim Krul. I also suggested at a cost Adam Webster ... It's in my post history. Both I felt could progress the way the ball was moved through the first third.

That would be recruiting to a model of play. A possession based principle.

City don't seek to monopolise possession. Mr Johnson could view the keepers foot skill as a low priority.  So unless you know what's in  Mr Johnson's mind  I can't answer your ?'s.

 Max is more than decent at distributing the ball which makes me hope he was left out due it the new recruit being equally as good in that dept, and he had a  game affected simply by nerves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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