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The Kiwi keeper


Rich

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38 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Erm, no he didn’t. He played 30 odd games for SV Wehen Wiesbaden’s reserves, the actual first team side were in the 3rd tier whom he played for twice. All his other appearances came in 3 seasons for SpVgg Unterhaching, who were relegated from the third tier in his first season and then spent the next 2 in the fourth.

He can’t help his nationality of course but that doesn’t mean his caps are noteable.

Apologies, I thought SpVgg Unterhaching were in the third tier when this keeper was there. Anyway, all I was saying in my original post was that Frankie’s debut proves you shouldn’t write off someone after just one game.

That’s all - but you’ve just basically slagged off the New Zealand team, quoting their recent results as some sort of justification why a Kiwi keeper is rubbish. Yet you’ve also acknowledged that Marinovic hasn’t played for NZ for a couple of years, so their recent results obviously cannot be down to him.

Anyway, this has gone too far off piste, I said someone shouldn’t be written off after just one game....that’s all. Have a good weekend, cheers...

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1 hour ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Erm, no he didn’t. He played 30 odd games for SV Wehen Wiesbaden’s reserves, the actual first team side were in the 3rd tier whom he played for twice. All his other appearances came in 3 seasons for SpVgg Unterhaching, who were relegated from the third tier in his first season and then spent the next 2 in the fourth.

He can’t help his nationality of course but that doesn’t mean his caps are noteable.

 SpVgg Unterhaching have a lot in common with Bristol City. If we ever played them in Germany in a pre-season friendly the local wits in SpVgg would call it SpVgg Unteraching v BCFC Unterachieving.

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14 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

 SpVgg Unterhaching have a lot in common with Bristol City. If we ever played them in Germany in a pre-season friendly the local wits in SpVgg would call it SpVgg Unteraching v BCFC Unterachieving.

It's not often you get wordplay in German on here.  And I have to say that is my favourite of the day so far. ?

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2 minutes ago, marmite said:

He obviously wasn't up to championship speed so LJ shouldn't have played him. Managers fault. End of.

Yep, definitely wasn’t ready....we don’t know if he is good enough either, but in terms of signing a GK for cover, beggars can’t be choosers.

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A lot of people on here were saying Maenpaa was rubbish before he'd kicked a ball in the Summer. I think he's got to be given another chance, we didn't lose the game because of him he had no chance from Kelly's shot. Although he's not played at a high level club-wise he's played in some big games for New Zealand against top players. Given we've got a top goalkeeping coach I saw enough there for him to work with, LJ may be considering him as our number 2 for next season if as seems possible Frankie is being released. I like Max as well but he does look a bit inexperienced and nervous in the heat of battle. 

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11 hours ago, italian dave said:

First touch when played to feet was awful. Very difficult night for kicking out wide accurately. His quick distribution from hands was very good I thought. 

Yes he likes to punch: many do. At least he didn't punch straight down to an opponents feet, like Max  did on Saturday!

Made three of four decent saves, and held onto the ball on a wet and windy night.

He's our 4th choice, emergency, keeper - what do people expect?!

What do people expect?

A pro who demonstrates the behaviours the team needs. 

How do the team play? How does this player play? Do the technical attributes meet? 

I have read the thread and others and it's unclear what this keeper is good at. Prior to being signed the questions above should be covered.

Very good players and average can have the crisis of confidence this keeper had. Confidence is fed by ability. If the player lacks ability he will not to be able to carry out team tasks and performances like the keepers can then be logically expected.

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Anyone writing the new keeper off after 1 game, with 5 days training with the team, with no competitive game for months, is absolutely bananas.

Almost as bananas as LJ for playing him.

Thank God he didn't cost us a goal.  Of course the keeper should get another chance, after training with the team for a few weeks, with no pressure of games to contend with, just like this two week period we have now.

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8 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

What do people expect?

A pro who demonstrates the behaviours the team needs. 

How do the team play? How does this player play? Do the technical attributes meet? 

I have read the thread and others and it's unclear what this keeper is good at. Prior to being signed the questions above should be covered.

Very good players and average can have the crisis of confidence this keeper had. Confidence is fed by ability. If the player lacks ability he will not to be able to carry out team tasks and performances like the keepers can then be logically expected.

 No-one's going to argue with any of that, but the implication (I'm not sure whether that's yours, but it certainly seems to be the view of some) that he doesn't have the attributes, he's not good at anything, the club didn't consider his abilities, behind his lack of confidence is a lack of ability etc, is just such an over-reaction. 

He simply wasn't that bad. He screwed up two backpasses to feet, well anyone who was at Huddersfield a couple of years ago will tell you FF can easily do that, and cost you a goal. He punched when he might have caught, but at least he didn't punch straight down to an opposing forward as Max did on Sat. He didn't manage the defence like a good keeper does, well hardly surprising he's only just met most of them. Other than that he did OK. 

And as for the club, no they possibly haven't done their homework to the degree they'd have liked, but they probably didn't expect to be having to look for an emergency keeper at this stage of the season. 

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11 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

Was a poor performance don’t get me wrong but I don’t blame Marinovic whatsoever, LJ should of never dropped Max in the first place, hasn’t put a foot wrong, then to come out and say after Tuesday’s game that it was already planned that Max would play v Leeds and Marinovic v Ipswich well and truly stunned me! What an awful way of managing. The club had their hands tied when bringing in another keeper as we could only bring in one on a free transfer, not too many around and had to get one in sharpish. Signed Marinovic who hasn’t played a game for 5 months, never played in England, or even at a decent level, had been with us for not even a week so doesn’t know his team mates or get used to how we play,yet LJ somehow came to a decision that it would be a great idea to throw him straight in at the deep end. Along with playing 4 at the back and a lone striker v the leagues bottom side that was a shocker from start to finish for LJ, about time he held his hands up for some of these huge mistakes that everyone can see bar himself, maybe that’s what Macca was having a pop at him for?

Agree with most of what you say, but I think the suggestion that Max hasn't put a foot wrong is a little rose tinted! Others could have done better in the build up to Leeds goal, but Max was far from blameless too. And his punching was awful, not only unnecessary on at least one occasion, but no height, no distance, no power, and at least one could potentially have cost a goal. 

I agree though, still would have played him on Tuesday, I think he's done enough for us to have that level of confidence in him. 

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14 hours ago, Rich said:

Let's be positive, I'll start.

His first game at championship level which is frenetic. This was his first game in months, cut him some slack

His kicking was bad but, it was into the wind and others (remember Webster) misplaced passes all night and they didn't have to kick into the wind every time.

Ipswich new he'd be a little slow, so closed down really quickly. So many times they reached him as he received the ball.

Our players never helped him by playing too slow, or too fast passes back to him.

His first touch was bad on two/three occasions, others he was fine, he'll get quicker.

His catching was ok and he pulled of some good saves and one very good save.

I predict he'll turn into a very good signing for us.

Be positive.

Yeh right,! 

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I'm normally very supportive of Johnson's decisions, but he 100% got this one wrong. 

Don't blame the player at all, it was crazy for him to be dropped in to that situation, especially considering we now have almost three weeks without a game, for him to get up to speed in training/friendlies. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

What do people expect?

A pro who demonstrates the behaviours the team needs. 

How do the team play? How does this player play? Do the technical attributes meet? 

I have read the thread and others and it's unclear what this keeper is good at. Prior to being signed the questions above should be covered.

Very good players and average can have the crisis of confidence this keeper had. Confidence is fed by ability. If the player lacks ability he will not to be able to carry out team tasks and performances like the keepers can then be logically expected.

Did you actually watch the game?  And do you have any idea what you are saying?

I imagine you can list half a dozen great goalkeepers, with all the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

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4 hours ago, Chivs said:

Did you actually watch the game?  And do you have any idea what you are saying?

I imagine you can list half a dozen great goalkeepers, with all the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

Yes and yes.

It  would be hard to create a list of affordable players with     ALL the desired attributes, which is why I would not do so. 

I also did not use the word great. 

It is is easier to look at key qualities of the player and the team needs. The keeper in question may not be at ease  playing out to feet and hitting wide areas.  His other attributes could outweigh that consideration. It's a normal  process of recruitment. 

If  I asked you what are this keepers key skills? Very frequently you or another would be able to highlight what they are. In this case it appears people do not know what this keepers qualities are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Yes and yes.

It  would be hard to create a list of affordable players with     ALL the desired attributes, which is why I would not do so. 

I also did not use the word great. 

It is is easier to look at key qualities of the player and the team needs. The keeper in question may not be at ease  playing out to feet and hitting wide areas.  His other attributes could outweigh that consideration. It's a normal  process of recruitment. 

If  I asked you what are this keepers key skills? Very frequently you or another would be able to highlight what they are. In this case it appears people do not know what this keepers qualities are.

 

 

So you are saying that this recruitment is very suspect because people do not know what this keeper's qualities are.  Rightio.

I'll ask again in a slightly different way:  can you list one affordable goalkeeper, with some of the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

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19 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

What level is that? He’s spent the majority of his career in the German 4th tier and was released from the MLS after a year...

The New Zealand national side is also absolutely tragic so not giving him that either...

Actually a higher regular level than the other option we have. Unfortunately Max is a shrinking violet when it comes to getting down and dirty regards having the desire to stop the ball going in the net. I've seen enough of him to know that he's quite confident with the ball at his feet, the other parts of the goal keepers skills come naturally to some and some have to learn them, he is still in the learning camp. He's played only seven games for us where results aren't too impressive, we've won two drawn one but lost four. I don't think Max is particularly brave, so is more likely to stay on his line than risk getting too close to the striker, two goals have been scored against him at the South Stand goal where he could and should have come out and at least narrowed the angle, the most recent being against Leeds where he should have dived forward to cut out the header across goal, or come forward to narrow the angle, he decided to jump up in the air like a startled kitten. The other was against Stoke, where the bloke had time to bring the ball down on his chest on the six yard line and volley past Max as he stood on his line. I don't think either of the other three keepers would have been as slow in putting their bodies at risk to stop a goal bound attempt. So, rather than write the bigger keeper off straight away, I'm prepared to give him a chance, as I'm very sure that Max aint up to the task of being a 1st team goalie just yet.

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31 minutes ago, Chivs said:

So you are saying that this recruitment is very suspect because people do not know what this keeper's qualities are.  Rightio.

I'll ask again in a slightly different way:  can you list one affordable goalkeeper, with some of the attributes needed by our team, sitting around, out of contract, waiting for the March call?

 

Rightio I was pointing out how little people know about this player and what his skills are. 

If the intent is for City to play out? Does the player possess that ability? What attributes do you think the team needs in a keeper?

Last season around march I suggested signing a keeper available on a free -  Tim Krul. I also suggested at a cost Adam Webster ... It's in my post history. Both I felt could progress the way the ball was moved through the first third.

That would be recruiting to a model of play. A possession based principle.

City don't seek to monopolise possession. Mr Johnson could view the keepers foot skill as a low priority.  So unless you know what's in  Mr Johnson's mind  I can't answer your ?'s.

 Max is more than decent at distributing the ball which makes me hope he was left out due it the new recruit being equally as good in that dept, and he had a  game affected simply by nerves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

Rightio I was pointing out how little people know about this player and what his skills are. 

If the intent is for City to play out? Does the player possess that ability? What attributes do you think the team needs in a keeper?

Last season around march I suggested signing a keeper available on a free -  Tim Krul. I also suggested at a cost Adam Webster ... It's in my post history. Both I felt could progress the way the ball was moved through the first third.

That would be recruiting to a model of play. A possession based principle.

City don't seek to monopolise possession. Mr Johnson could view the keepers foot skill as a low priority.  So unless you know what's in  Mr Johnson's mind  I can't answer your ?'s.

 Max is more than decent at distributing the ball which makes me hope he was left out due it the new recruit being equally as good in that dept, and he had a  game affected simply by nerves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not just nerves, terrible conditions. The infamous punch! I watched the flight of the ball on replay a few times and his timing was correct to meet the flight of the ball, unfortunately, the ball moved a little right at the death because of the wind and he ended up slightly more underneath it than he seemed to have planned for. He punched the ball straight upwards from about the six yard line, from where I was sitting we were lucky the lino never gave a corner as Fammy hooked the ball clear from behind the line. So, because of the wind, the ball travelled backwards about 7 yards, not easy conditions. Not over protecting him, as anyone is fair game for criticism, just pointing out other factors to make a more accurate assessment.

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Terrible decision from LJ to drop max, who has proven he can cut it in he Champ. Kiwi was signed as a fourth choice and should have remained on the bench .  

At this level it’s important a keeper can play out from the back and be comfortable with ball at his feet. Marinovic was most certainly not comfortable and appears to lack sureness of touch/control. 

Not his fault but he should be sub, as a last ditch option. You could see defence were unsettled and didn’t trust his kicking so were much higher up the pitch second half, uncertain about either passing back or him picking them out to build from the back. Max is good at these things . 

Big fail from LJ, not unlike the Semenyo Start vs one of the leagues best and most attaching right backs.

Hopefully with a break,  heads are cleared and we go for it during the final 10 games with some smarter management . Still all to play for. 

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14 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

What it does show is a club with our lack of  real “clout” at this level will not do much better than Niki as number 1 and Frank number 2. It’s a shame we don’t have a 28 year old Maenppa.

Couldn’t agree more.  Hoping these little niggly calf injuries are sorted, and his overall lack of games in his career means he can go on another 2/3 seasons.  I really like him.

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15 hours ago, Rich said:

Not just nerves, terrible conditions. The infamous punch! I watched the flight of the ball on replay a few times and his timing was correct to meet the flight of the ball, unfortunately, the ball moved a little right at the death because of the wind and he ended up slightly more underneath it than he seemed to have planned for. He punched the ball straight upwards from about the six yard line, from where I was sitting we were lucky the lino never gave a corner as Fammy hooked the ball clear from behind the line. So, because of the wind, the ball travelled backwards about 7 yards, not easy conditions. Not over protecting him, as anyone is fair game for criticism, just pointing out other factors to make a more accurate assessment.

Which is why I did not mention it.

I did have a quick google and found.

https://soccersouls.com/gerrard-would-be-very-clever-to-sign-this-top-class-shot-stopper-for-rangers-and-it-would-be-a-game-changer/

The 6ft 3in shot-stopper has sharp reflexes and is also good on the ground. However, his distribution and handling skills can be poor at times.

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He was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs early on, but he improved as the game wore on. Once he gets up to Championship speed he may well prove useful. 

For no good reason, I got the impression that the players would have been happier with Max O'Leary on Tuesday night and I felt that his absence contributed to a lacklustre performance all round. 

Hoping for improvement all round

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1 hour ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

He was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs early on, but he improved as the game wore on. Once he gets up to Championship speed he may well prove useful. 

For no good reason, I got the impression that the players would have been happier with Max O'Leary on Tuesday night and I felt that his absence contributed to a lacklustre performance all round. 

Hoping for improvement all round

Trust is the answer, That’s why our defence has been so good for most of the season with Maenpaa and O’Leary between the sticks - LJ messed up the Ipswich game, naivety!

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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Which is why I did not mention it.

I did have a quick google and found.

https://soccersouls.com/gerrard-would-be-very-clever-to-sign-this-top-class-shot-stopper-for-rangers-and-it-would-be-a-game-changer/

The 6ft 3in shot-stopper has sharp reflexes and is also good on the ground. However, his distribution and handling skills can be poor at times.

I was referring to your statement : "and he had a  game affected simply by nerves". I was pointing out that other factors were at play.

 

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