Swede Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 The hearing has started. Looks likely they'll get a 12 point deduction especially as they signed that Scandinavian full back despite being told not to by the EFL. I'm still waiting for QPR to get a hefty fine and points deduction as their case is surely worse than the blues. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Swede said: The hearing has started. Looks likely they'll get a 12 point deduction especially as they signed that Scandinavian full back despite being told not to by the EFL. I'm still waiting for QPR to get a hefty fine and points deduction as their case is surely worse than the blues. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Thought the QPR case was settled a while ago? 12 point deduction would send Birmingham to 19th and 2 points above the relegation zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just read the sky sports news article on it and they understand because of how long it could take that Birmingham could avoid it this season (surely baring promotion) and start next season on -12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, hodge said: Thought the QPR case was settled a while ago? 12 point deduction would send Birmingham to 19th and 2 points above the relegation zone QPR offended some time ago under the old rules under which points deduction was not an option. Even when they were relegated and fell back into the "clutches" of the EFL and their ffp penalties, they got the original fine reduced dramatically by (IIRC) arguing that paying the full fine would put the club's future in jeopardy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, downendcity said: QPR offended some time ago under the old rules under which points deduction was not an option. Even when they were relegated and fell back into the "clutches" of the EFL and their ffp penalties, they got the original fine reduced dramatically by (IIRC) arguing that paying the full fine would put the club's future in jeopardy! Something along those lines, for Birmingham apparently the EFL recommendation is a 12 point deduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, hodge said: Just read the sky sports news article on it and they understand because of how long it could take that Birmingham could avoid it this season (surely baring promotion) and start next season on -12 Great. So if they have a spectacular finish to the season and go up via the play offs, they can avoid it altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Port Said Red said: Great. So if they have a spectacular finish to the season and go up via the play offs, they can avoid it altogether! Think EFL could step in if Birmingham even make the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, Swede said: The hearing has started. Looks likely they'll get a 12 point deduction especially as they signed that Scandinavian full back despite being told not to by the EFL. I'm still waiting for QPR to get a hefty fine and points deduction as their case is surely worse than the blues. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Look, if they just give us the 3 points back, we'll say no more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Curr Avon said: Look, if they just give us the 3 points back, we'll say no more about it. Whereas the rovers are planning on suing them in about 3 seasons time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, JonDolman said: -12 next season would be better. They could well get relegated then. -12 now and I'd fancy them to stay up. I think 12 points now would put a massive load of pressure on them, esoecially with a few of the teams starting to pick up points in the relegation mix. 5 minutes ago, JonDolman said: How about other clubs? Villa for example. How do they get away with the unbelievable amounts they lose? Let’s see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Swede said: The hearing has started. Looks likely they'll get a 12 point deduction especially as they signed that Scandinavian full back despite being told not to by the EFL. I'm still waiting for QPR to get a hefty fine and points deduction as their case is surely worse than the blues. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. QPR settled last July. A figure of £65m was being talked about IIRC. It turned out ot be £17m fine plus £3m costs = £20m of yer actual money. Payable over ten years. And £22m of loans to be converted to equity; something Steve does most years without being forced to do it. So about a third of the propsctive fine; paybale over ten years. http://qprdot.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=80969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerox6060 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 12 points now please, took them at 100/1 to go down before Christmas based on this points deduction ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 49 minutes ago, JonDolman said: How about other clubs? Villa for example. How do they get away with the unbelievable amounts they lose? I doubt they are that bad at the moment, with parachute payments. However, if they don’t go up this season, then next season they could be in trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, xerox6060 said: 12 points now please, took them at 100/1 to go down before Christmas based on this points deduction ... Got them at 12-1 earlier this evening. You did well. 1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said: I doubt they are that bad at the moment, with parachute payments. However, if they don’t go up this season, then next season they could be in trouble... Not so sure. @Mr Popodopolous Thinks they might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC11 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 What the EFL say and what they do is anyone’s guess along with the rest of the authorities who run the game here and abroad. Depends what 3 person panel they’ve randomly chosen this time around. 2 hours ago, JonDolman said: How about other clubs? Villa for example. How do they get away with the unbelievable amounts they lose? I reckon we wouldn’t have to wait too long to find out, aslong as they don’t go up this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, BCFC11 said: What the EFL say and what they do is anyone’s guess along with the rest of the authorities who run the game here and abroad. Depends what 3 person panel they’ve randomly chosen this time around. I reckon we wouldn’t have to wait too long to find out, aslong as they don’t go up this time around. It's been referred to the VAR panel for their decision, so heaven help us al! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 hours ago, xerox6060 said: 12 points now please, took them at 100/1 to go down before Christmas based on this points deduction ... You did very well indeed- nice work! 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: Got them at 12-1 earlier this evening. You did well. Not so sure. @Mr Popodopolous Thinks they might be. I'd have thought so, yeah. It's not a done deal that they will fail but unless they have somehow slashed the wage bill- and I mean slashed- they're bound to fail IMO. Not only fail, but by a bigger margin i.e. 3 year loss over and above FFP than Birmingham too which is just inexcusable with what £88-90m of parachute payments in 3 years- absolutely ludicrous if they have say missed it by £10m over 3 seasons with all that cushion! I was reading in places it'd be somewhere between £25-30m (that'd be £41-42m, £33-34m and somewhere in the region of £14-15m) and that's with parachute payments which makes Birmingham's Redknapp season- well that makes Birmingham despite their travails look like a bunch of skinflints!! @BCFC11 Correct. You never know...I think the EFL are pretty slow and laborious too, which is not what you need with submission of projected accounts and in-season punishments on the table. Very disappointed with how they are and have been going about many aspects of this. God knows how Shaun Harvey is being linked with the FA- but then again Governing bodies- as you say! @Eddie Hitler That punishment is such a joke. Yes it hits the owners in the pocket a bit, though to me that FFP fine should have counted towards their FFP losses- say it's over 10 years. They settled in one hit, but if it's over 10 years that means that the £13m loss plus academy etc expenditure- well the remaining £17m/10 is £1.7m per season. The way to make that work would to have had it come out of their annual budget- so if they lose £14.7m that's FFP failed. They should have had to lose £13m per season inclusive of the fine so £11.3m basically (plus deducted infrastructure, academy etc). That would have been a punishment and deterrent- but to have it in one hit during parachute payments year and have owners pay a chunk- and not count towards FFP in any case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 I just hope the decision comes out quickly and well ahead of the next set of fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I just hope the decision comes out quickly and well ahead of the next set of fixtures. Personally I hope it's drawn out until the Friday before the last set of fixtures when they are 10 points above the relegation places and then they get relegated to a last minute reading winner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 It'll never happen. There's talk like this every season of some random team and nothing ever comes from it. Wish something did though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, Sturny said: It'll never happen. There's talk like this every season of some random team and nothing ever comes from it. Wish something did though.. EFL are clearly pushing hard for stringent penalties/punishment so why do you think this is the case? Up to the independent panel now though- three people, don't know any of the individuals who would be on it- but it would seem it comprises a representative from Birmingham, a representative from the EFL and an independent chairman. Assuming majority vote, simple 2-1 as opposed to anything unanimous or abstentions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC11 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: I just hope the decision comes out quickly and well ahead of the next set of fixtures. I think points will be deducted, and Birmingham know it aswell, so they will be using whatever delaying tactics they can to draw this out as long as possible in the hope that the points deduction is taken from next season. IMO the case is being heard here and now so the points deduction (if that’s the outcome) should be taken as soon as it’s concluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMWANG50 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 They have effectively been playing with an ineligible player all season so they will definitely get a points deduction of some sort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: - but it would seem it comprises a representative from Birmingham, a representative from the EFL and an independent chairman. I read all three were independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: I read all three were independent. Perhaps a representative on behalf of Birmingham, a representative on behalf of EFL then independent chairman. Definite difference between on behalf of and from- important distinction to draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Drew Peacock said: I read all three were independent. Knowing the way football is run, it's probably one from Birmingham City, one from the Blue half of Birmingham and one from Gary Monk's BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 Fair Play Panel 11.1 The League shall create a Fair Play Panel to: 11.1.1 consider any challenge by a Championship Club, Promoted Championship Club or Relegated Club to a decision of The League in respect of the determination of its Fair Play Result and the consequences thereof, including (by way of example and without limitation): (a) assessment of transactions with Related Party(ies) above or below fair value; (b) the imposition of an Embargo in accordance with the provisions of Rule 6; (c) refusal of permission to register a Player; and 11.1.2 consider any application for Permitted Exceptional Items to be considered in calculating the Fair Play Result. 11.2 The Fair Play Panel shall be made up of any two of the independent directors of the Board of The League (excluding the Chief Executive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 9 hours ago, TMWANG50 said: They have effectively been playing with an ineligible player all season so they will definitely get a points deduction of some sort Don’t think that is true - the EFL were not happy with them signing him but they allowed him to be registered as they were going to be ‘working through the issues’ together. Dont know if it has been mentioned previously on this thread but Brum face another FFP case regarding refusing to sell Che Adams in January - that is being viewed as an ‘aggravated breach’ and will attract a bigger points deduction, which will be effective next season. All of this is IF the EFL have the cajones to push the points deductions through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, ScottishRed said: Don’t think that is true - the EFL were not happy with them signing him but they allowed him to be registered as they were going to be ‘working through the issues’ together. Dont know if it has been mentioned previously on this thread but Brum face another FFP case regarding refusing to sell Che Adams in January - that is being viewed as an ‘aggravated breach’ and will attract a bigger points deduction, which will be effective next season. All of this is IF the EFL have the cajones to push the points deductions through! I believe this is why SL wanted MA on the EFL board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: I believe this is why SL wanted MA on the EFL board! Just need to get Leeds in the position then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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