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Birmingham FFP


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12 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Don’t think that is true - the EFL were not happy with them signing him but they allowed him to be registered as they were going to be ‘working through the issues’ together.

Dont know if it has been mentioned previously on this thread but Brum face another FFP case regarding refusing to sell Che Adams in January - that is being viewed as an ‘aggravated breach’ and will attract a bigger points deduction, which will be effective next season.

All of this is IF the EFL have the cajones to push the points deductions through!

Aggravated breach would be 9 points next season if proven I believe.

Plus they are likely in breach for this season in any case- half season results showed them losing between £13-17m depending on what figures are Birmingham and which other parties (their parent company BSH in Hong Kong showed big half-yearly losses).

That should be another punishment on top- unsure if they would then not count the last 2 years results towards it and judge it on its merits (or lack of) for the existing season. Think they might- i.e. they could only lose £13m + deductions...but likely they'll breach this lower threshold as they breached the rolling 3 year one.

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For this season...

Perhaps I'm cynical but I think that's a bit of a cop out from the EFL in regards to sanctions yet again. 

They're 7 points off the playoffs with 10 or so games left, this deduction puts them 5 points off the relegation zone so the reality is there's little chance of them going down with their squad.

If the EFL really wanted to make a statement of intent they'd have enforced it for the start of next season.

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@BessexRED I don't think it's entirely a cop out- because imagine the flak the EFL would have got if Birmingham's morale had soared from zero points removed this year, and they reach the playoffs and often the side with momentum carries them forward to win them.

They could very easily get a points deduction next season too, it's been mooted in fact in recent weeks. They have likely breached it this season too even on the one year rule and refusing to sell Adams in January...only makes it worse surely?

9 points...well it ends their playoff hopes but doesn't quite put them in a relegation battle- then again, 5 points and a tough run in- still have to go to WBA, and host Sheffield United, Leeds and Derby...not safe yet perhaps?

You'd think it would be on main Talksport as opposed to just TS2 because it's quite a big watershed, landmark moment...

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/birmingham-city-overspending-financial-fair-play-punishment-delay-championship

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26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@BessexRED I don't think it's entirely a cop out- because imagine the flak the EFL would have got if Birmingham's morale had soared from zero points removed this year, and they reach the playoffs and often the side with momentum carries them forward to win them.

They could very easily get a points deduction next season too, it's been mooted in fact in recent weeks. They have likely breached it this season too even on the one year rule and refusing to sell Adams in January...only makes it worse surely?

9 points...well it ends their playoff hopes but doesn't quite put them in a relegation battle- then again, 5 points and a tough run in- still have to go to WBA, and host Sheffield United, Leeds and Derby...not safe yet perhaps?

You'd think it would be on main Talksport as opposed to just TS2 because it's quite a big watershed, landmark moment...

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/birmingham-city-overspending-financial-fair-play-punishment-delay-championship

Not a complete cop out but it's a weak and mainly ineffective punishment.

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3 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Remember they also have to face an 'aggravated breach' charge for refusing to sell Che Adams in January.

My understanding is that if found guilty that punishment will be from the start of next season. 

Hope so 

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5 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

Not a complete cop out but it's a weak and mainly ineffective punishment.

Wouldn't say so- slight cop out at most.

5 points can be whittled down pretty quickly...remember the effect on morale or lack of now having gone from 6th place outsiders, to the verge of a relegation scrap.

They still have to go to Rotherham and Reading which is on the last day...if it sticks they'll be joint 19th with Wigan (well 18th on GD) and their next 3 games? WBA away, Leeds and then Sheffield United at home. They've also lost 4 on the bounce...

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3 minutes ago, Sturny said:

And just saw the deduction is for right now. They should've had the 9 points deducted for next season! 

I agree. 

Starting a new season on  -9 points is a significant number to make up. 3 wins just to be on par......

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4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I agree. 

Starting a new season on  -9 points is a significant number to make up. 3 wins just to be on par......

May yet get that as well for 2 reasons.

Potential aggravated breach i.e. not selling Che Adams plus the fact that even on one yearly results, they may well have broken FFP this year too.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wouldn't say so.

5 points can be whittled down pretty quickly...remember the effect on morale or lack of! They still have to go to Rotherham and Reading which is on the last day...

Deductions don't generally hurt teams internally, they tend to galvanise teams and create an "us vs them" mentality mate.

Remains to be seen what happens with them but I'd suggest there's a very slim chance of them going down. 

It's a shame we didn't finish the job back in 2017.

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2 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

Deductions don't generally hurt teams internally, they tend to galvanise teams and create an "us vs them" mentality mate.

Remains to be seen what happens with them but I'd suggest there's a very slim chance of them going down. 

It's a shame we didn't finish the job back in 2017.

Yeah I really wanted it back then- our final nail in the coffin after the late rally under Benny was that game in 1999...vs Birmingham.

Would have been great.

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3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Leeds went from minus 15 to zero/par in five games under Dennis Wise...

Big club, third tier...but it can galvanise yes.

Birmingham I'm not so sure on as they cannot for example renew Michael Morrison's contract he's their captain under EFL business plan and they may well have to sell Che Adams as well to try and reach compliance, in a League like this? Slightly trickier...

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah I really wanted it back then- our final nail in the coffin after the late rally under Benny was that game in 1999...vs Birmingham.

Would have been great.

We had been on the beach for a week already before that game it seemed, completely toothless. Brum mustn’t have been able to believe their luck, fans and team. Would’ve loved to have sent them down that day. 

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Oh! Interesting!

According to Birmingham forum, SSN article says they are still under investigation for signing Pedersen- the aggravated breach could yet kick in...:fingerscrossed:

Footnote at the bottom of the article.

Quote

Birmingham are facing an investigation into their signing of Danish defender Kristian Pedersen, who was bought in June 2018, when the club were under a "soft embargo".

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19 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

Deductions don't generally hurt teams internally, they tend to galvanise teams and create an "us vs them" mentality mate.

Remains to be seen what happens with them but I'd suggest there's a very slim chance of them going down. 

It's a shame we didn't finish the job back in 2017.

That is very true.

We will find out pretty quickly whether it galvanises them or not.  I do think it’s different starting the season with minus points to getting a deduction this late.  Player bonuses for league placing now hit....how will they react?

But those first 3 games back....West Brom (a), Leeds (h) and Sheffield United (a) will tell us everything.  The teams at the bottom like Reading and even Rotherham have started winning games rather than drawing / losing and it looks a battle all of a sudden.

You would think they have more than enough to stay up, but I think this decision, importantly, now sets the precedent.

Villa, Wednesday, etc, might be sweating!!

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41 minutes ago, Sturny said:

And just saw the deduction is for right now. They should've had the 9 points deducted for next season! 

(Assuming they stay up) Why give them extra Championship ££? that's rewarding the offense.

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25 minutes ago, hodge said:

See 'Arry is still shirking any responsibility for the position they're in

Harry wasn’t in charge of the books, or the transfers, they had a director of football responsible for that, much like Ashton here,

 

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1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Harry wasn’t in charge of the books, or the transfers, they had a director of football responsible for that, much like Ashton here,

 

I took that interview with a pinch of salt. He then went onto claim that he'd basically never heard of Jota, Dean or Colin who they all signed on deadline day. Colin I could believe, Dean maybe but Jota was the best player in the league for the 5 months he was back at Brentford so I don't buy it whatsoever.

If true, he shouldn't have been given an opportunity at this level as he's clearly out of touch.

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