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where's the joy

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now that the season is set to fall away from us, i am struggling to remember a game where we have played 2 halves of good, attractive football.

i am not bashing the manager just saddened that there have been so few shots on goal, goals, incidents and attractive patterns of play.

how much better did our centre forward look with Reid up top with him before the big exit of our 3 best players and how much crisper was our passing last year?

i've renewed my season ticket praying that we start playing football on the floor next year and unearth a striker from our midfield.

praying that at least Vyner is ready to step up and that COD stays, plays in the middle and starts scoring goals. 

praying not expecting

how do you see it?

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43 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

now that the season is set to fall away from us, i am struggling to remember a game where we have played 2 halves of good, attractive football.

i am not bashing the manager just saddened that there have been so few shots on goal, goals, incidents and attractive patterns of play.

how much better did our centre forward look with Reid up top with him before the big exit of our 3 best players and how much crisper was our passing last year?

i've renewed my season ticket praying that we start playing football on the floor next year and unearth a striker from our midfield.

praying that at least Vyner is ready to step up and that COD stays, plays in the middle and starts scoring goals. 

praying not expecting

how do you see it?

4-3-3 would have helped with this given the sales and the need to tweak, but with a few exceptions- and when I say 4-3-3 I mean like v Stoke 2nd half with Walsh coming in, LJ has not been keen.

The scoring stats can be misleading- how many times have we hit the woodwork, or had goals wrongfully disallowed? Need to factor these in. Are you talking just at home or away too? Mind you, any stat including woodwork taken in isolation can mislead.

Attractive patterns of play? Can agree, not as good as last year.

Norwich at home was enjoyable IMO, especially given our confidence was slowly growing. Swansea away was enjoyable...Sheffield United was a good tactical game and tbh happy with that. Hull 2nd half we piled some pressure on- when we went 4-3-3.

Last season, I'd argue our most attractive or maybe the wrong word, best footballing period was the Paterson-Reid combination in the 4-4-1-1. Before that it wasn't always so technical- goals yes, but control? Not so much. We had a bit more possession last year but more importantly did more with it, but we can rewrite history a bit. Yes the football was undoubtedly better last season- but we were more clinical too. Stats show this and goals always increase positivity, which is natural. Would argue this philosophy came to an end post first half Sheffield Wednesday for its final peak, but overall mid January, early February perhaps.

Yes we attacked, but we lacked the control thereafter...

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38 minutes ago, Unan said:

Norwich, Blackburn, Stoke, Swanse, Brentford, West Brom, Sheffield United.

 

Off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more.

Certainly been a lot more shocking games at home.

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Taken on baseline stats:

Home games:

19 Played, Scored 22 goals.

However. Weimann and Pisano wrongly disallowed goals- you'd hope to get one, so 24 it would be or 23.

Woodwork

  • Middlesbrough twice
  • Sheffield Wednesday once
  • Hull once
  • Stoke twice
  • Millwall once
  • Rotherham (albeit vs 10 and 9 men) once
  • Bolton twice
  • Ipswich once

Potentially another 12-13 goals, no? Elements of luck and plain old crap finishing at play here too...

It's not been great at times, but let's not rewrite history- we certainly could have scored more at home.

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44 minutes ago, Unan said:

Norwich, Blackburn, Stoke, Swanse, Brentford, West Brom, Sheffield United.

 

Off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more.

I don't think you could argue we put in a '90 minute performance' for any of those to be honest

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49 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

now that the season is set to fall away from us, i am struggling to remember a game where we have played 2 halves of good, attractive football.

i am not bashing the manager just saddened that there have been so few shots on goal, goals, incidents and attractive patterns of play.

how much better did our centre forward look with Reid up top with him before the big exit of our 3 best players and how much crisper was our passing last year?

i've renewed my season ticket praying that we start playing football on the floor next year and unearth a striker from our midfield.

praying that at least Vyner is ready to step up and that COD stays, plays in the middle and starts scoring goals. 

praying not expecting

how do you see it?

I've always said performances mean nothing if we are not winning. That's what football is about 

When your winning ...no one cares how. The unbeaten run we experienced  didn't produce the best football we've ever seen...but the buzz it created over rides that 

The thing with City under Johnson....is we have to many of these dodgy spells. And these dodgy spells throw up some absolute dire, un-inspirational performances where he looks completely incapable of turning things round in time to stop a slide 

This season for me (certainly all of 2018) ....has been one of the least enjoyable times I've had in my 25 years as a season ticket. We had a nice little run at the start of 2019 but have well and truly dropped back into streaky Lee's ways.

Only renewed this year because of my old man. Next season I just can't justify wasting £400+ on crap performances and a match day experience that is more watered down then the beer they serve in the ground 

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26 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I've always said performances mean nothing if we are not winning. That's what football is about 

 When your winning ...no one cares how. The unbeaten run we experienced  didn't produce the best football we've ever seen...but the buzz is created over rides that 

 The thing with City under Johnson....is we have to many of dodgy spells. And these dodgy spells throw up some absolute dire, un-inspirational performances.

This season for me (certainly all of 2018) ....has been one of the least enjoyable times I've had in my 25 years as a season ticket. We had a nice little run at the start of 2019 but have well and truly dropped back into streaky Lee's ways.

Only renewed this year because of my old man. Next season I just can't justify wasting £400+ on crap performances and a match day experience that is more watered down then the beer they serve in the ground 

11 woodwork strikes and 2 disallowed goals under questionable circs at home this season...no element of luck/not finishing good chances created?

Not necessarily defending LJ as I still wonder about some of his tactics and selections, but would be interesting to know what you suggest he does to create an increased entertainment factor. Team, tactics, blueprint?

I'm intrigued by that bolded bit however. 25 years an ST Holder yeah?? 20 years for me but if for the purposes of this we exclude LJ's ups and downs.

  • Ward and Benny season.
  • Pulis
  • Early part of GJ- we lost 9 in a row and were in the relegation zone as late as mid February 2006.
  • The very end of GJ reign was poor but still his era was the best times taken as a whole in my 20 years or so.
  • Coppell and Millen season
  • Millen and McInnes season
  • McInnes and S'OD season
  • S'OD in League One...and Cotterill's early period even though he restored pride and got us fighting again, we were still in the drop zone at the start of March 2014. Which is fine, sometimes you have to go backwards to progress but Christ...
  • The end of Cotterill's time- which is a shame as he did wonders for the most part.

Before my time, but can only assume 1993-May 1998 was the land of milk and honey for you? :yes: Wasn't Osman mid 90's, plenty of people on here talk about his reign in a less than positive fashion.

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4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I don't think you could argue we put in a '90 minute performance' for any of those to be honest

Also have to factor in the opposition as there are two sides on that pitch- assuming the Norwich and Sheffield United games referred to are the home ones.

 2 of those are the current top 2 and were good performances considering, West Brom away we started like a train- could have been 2 or 3 up early on and they were fortunate to win in the end.

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19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Also have to factor in the opposition as there are two sides on that pitch- assuming the Norwich and Sheffield United games referred to are the home ones.

 2 of those are the current top 2 and were good performances considering, West Brom away we started like a train- could have been 2 or 3 up early on and they were fortunate to win in the end.

I'd agree they were good performances, but you could also argue that with the Sheffield united game we were lucky to get a win with the guilt edged chances they missed. Despite that though, I'd agree that those three are the closest to a full performance we've come. 

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8 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Didn't do all of those but Blackburn and Stoke at home were second half performances as I recall.

Stoke more so IMO. We started alright v Blackburn then we conceded and they took over a bit first half IIRC. V Stoke we piled it on 2nd half, Walsh and our 4-3-3 looked very good I thought and a mix of woodwork and Butland saved them from a fairly heavy loss.

We weren't exactly run off the park in the first half, possibly a bit unlucky to be losing at halftime v Stoke but definitely were going for it 2nd half.

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7 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Didn't do all of those but Blackburn and Stoke at home were second half performances as I recall.

Blackburn was 2 good halves, minus a 15 minute purple patch, & we didn’t dominate Stoke first half but we were, IMO, entertained.

I don't think many teams will have games were they totally dominate for 90 minutes in the Championship, if that’s what the question meant. 

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45 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I've always said performances mean nothing if we are not winning. That's what football is about 

When your winning ...no one cares how. The unbeaten run we experienced  didn't produce the best football we've ever seen...but the buzz it created over rides that 

The thing with City under Johnson....is we have to many of these dodgy spells. And these dodgy spells throw up some absolute dire, un-inspirational performances where he looks completely incapable of turning things round in time to stop a slide 

This season for me (certainly all of 2018) ....has been one of the least enjoyable times I've had in my 25 years as a season ticket. We had a nice little run at the start of 2019 but have well and truly dropped back into streaky Lee's ways.

Only renewed this year because of my old man. Next season I just can't justify wasting £400+ on crap performances and a match day experience that is more watered down then the beer they serve in the ground 

Have to agree its been dire football at home.most teams play with attacking wingbacks these days but oh god miss the wingers flying down the wings getting me out my seat and creating chances for whoever is upfront fammy works hard but even Abraham would stuggle with the supply this year

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28 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Have to agree its been dire football at home.most teams play with attacking wingbacks these days but oh god miss the wingers flying down the wings getting me out my seat and creating chances for whoever is upfront fammy works hard but even Abraham would stuggle with the supply this year

Abraham's all round game isn't all that good at this stage. Maybe it has improved at Aston Villa but game keeps evolving...

One up front, a fairly crowded midfield or perhaps both is the new way at decent levels- Leeds and Norwich both play with it and Sheffield United have their wingbacks which enables 2 up front- but a packed centre gives some security.

Tactical blueprint, plan for entertainment...? Interested to know.

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42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

11 woodwork strikes and 2 disallowed goals under questionable circs at home this season...no element of luck/not finishing good chances created?

Not necessarily defending LJ as I still wonder about some of his tactics and selections, but would be interesting to know what you suggest he does to create an increased entertainment factor. Team, tactics, blueprint?

I'm intrigued by that bolded bit however. 25 years an ST Holder yeah?? 20 years for me but if for the purposes of this we exclude LJ's ups and downs.

  • Ward and Benny season.
  • Pulis
  • Early part of GJ- we lost 9 in a row and were in the relegation zone as late as mid February 2006.
  • The very end of GJ reign was poor but still his era was the best times taken as a whole in my 20 years or so.
  • Coppell and Millen season
  • Millen and McInnes season
  • McInnes and S'OD season
  • S'OD in League One...and Cotterill's early period even though he restored pride and got us fighting again, we were still in the drop zone at the start of March 2014. Which is fine, sometimes you have to go backwards to progress but Christ...
  • The end of Cotterill's time- which is a shame as he did wonders for the most part.

Before my time, but can only assume 1993-May 1998 was the land of milk and honey for you? :yes: Wasn't Osman mid 90's, plenty of people on here talk about his reign in a less than positive fashion.

My theory is when you are younger City winning is everything.

Just being at AG and the whole occasion is exciting, and you can't wait to cheer at the final whistle if City have won. How they won doesn't matter as long as you leave the ground to 'Congratulations'.As you get older, and have been through all the periods you highlight above, and many more besides, there is a cumulative effect and, leaving the ground feeling you have been entertained - preferably by City, but also having seen a good match - and have actually enjoyed being at AG becomes ever more important. 

All too often - again - this season, the majority of games have simply not entertained or been enjoyable, and City's performances have mostly been sporadic and unsatisfying even if we've won.

Why can't it be like the 2nd half of the Stoke game more often, and for 90 minutes?

The Ipswich game really peed me off to the extent I was wondering what the hell I was doing there long before the end. Such crap, such a waste of time.It's really hard work to justify a £500 spend with the promise of similar next season, hence I haven't done so yet.

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8 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

My theory is when you are younger City winning is everything.

Just being at AG and the whole occasion is exciting, and you can't wait to cheer at the final whistle if City have won. How they won doesn't matter as long as you leave the ground to 'Congratulations'.As you get older, and have been through all the periods you highlight above, and many more besides, there is a cumulative effect and, leaving the ground feeling you have been entertained - preferably by City, but also having seen a good match - and have actually enjoyed being at AG becomes ever more important. 

All too often - again - this season, the majority of games have simply not entertained or been enjoyable, and City's performances have mostly been sporadic and unsatisfying even if we've won.

Why can't it be like the 2nd half of the Stoke game more often, and for 90 minutes?

The Ipswich game really peed me off to the extent I was wondering what the hell I was doing there long before the end. Such crap, such a waste of time.It's really hard work to justify a £500 spend with the promise of similar next season, hence I haven't done so yet.

Interesting take, agree with some of that. Definitely more happy clappy, enthusiasm when you win...still one of the best periods in our recent history though, of a generation in fact this one.

Now entertainment means different things to different people. How do we measure it- goals? Not many of them, agreed! Possession? Not much of that, a lot of the time- granted.Maybe averaging 53% at home, pretty average fare. Chances created? Now this is where it gets interesting- do you factor in when bemoaning the relatively low entertainment 11 strikes of the woodwork and 2 potentially wrongly disallowed goals? That bumps up the chances created aspect- actually statistics show we have created decent numbers even at home this season overall, isn't the problem then wasteful finishing/bad luck and in the case of the disallowed goals, refereeing? I think we should expect more but at the same time could, should have more goals than we have at home. Arguably the case that we don't do enough and certainly not of late done enough, with the possession we have had.

Was a rhetorical question but here's a rhetorical response. The answer to your Stoke question is there are 2 sides on the pitch, oddly enough. Also that was though the 2nd half excellent, partly down to Stoke's bunker like defence- Rowett likes those tactics, yet many on here have clamoured for him in the past. Oh how boring his football can be- not in a long ball type Pulis style but pragmatic nonetheless.

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13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Abraham's all round game isn't all that good at this stage. Maybe it has improved at Aston Villa but game keeps evolving...

One up front, a fairly crowded midfield or perhaps both is the new way at decent levels- Leeds and Norwich both play with it and Sheffield United have their wingbacks which enables 2 up front- but a packed centre gives some security.

Tactical blueprint, plan for entertainment...? Easy to criticise, both you and @Andy082005 show that.

Mate i wouldnt mind if our midfield was good enough an actually won most of the battles your forwards or forward in our position needs to be supplied or supported .

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6 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Mate i wouldnt mind if our midfield was good enough an actually won most of the battles your forwards or forward in our position needs to be supplied or supported .

Oh agree, we need to support whoever is up front better. Would actually consider Weimann as lone striker, well I say lone striker 4-3-3/4-5-1 depending on phases of play- certainly wouldn't leave him isolated at home especially.

Just think time to drop Diedhiou perhaps, 4-3-3 Weimann up front getting 2 of O'Dowda, Eliasson, Paterson or Palmer up in and around, then Brownhill, Pack and one other...Morrell could help fill the gap? Or obviously if fit, one of Smith and Walsh but we need to get back to some fluid football if we can- the current setup isn't quite working from a results POV and was hit and miss from an entertainment one too I thought.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Taken on baseline stats:

Home games:

19 Played, Scored 22 goals.

However. Weimann and Pisano wrongly disallowed goals- you'd hope to get one, so 24 it would be or 23.

Woodwork

  • Middlesbrough twice
  • Sheffield Wednesday once
  • Hull once
  • Stoke twice
  • Millwall once
  • Rotherham (albeit vs 10 and 9 men) once
  • Bolton twice
  • Ipswich once

Potentially another 12-13 goals, no? Elements of luck and plain old crap finishing at play here too...

It's not been great at times, but let's not rewrite history- we certainly could have scored more at home.

22 goals in 19 games is very poor so the lack of entertainment is probably correct 

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30 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

My theory is when you are younger City winning is everything.

Just being at AG and the whole occasion is exciting, and you can't wait to cheer at the final whistle if City have won. How they won doesn't matter as long as you leave the ground to 'Congratulations'.As you get older, and have been through all the periods you highlight above, and many more besides, there is a cumulative effect and, leaving the ground feeling you have been entertained - preferably by City, but also having seen a good match - and have actually enjoyed being at AG becomes ever more important. 

All too often - again - this season, the majority of games have simply not entertained or been enjoyable, and City's performances have mostly been sporadic and unsatisfying even if we've won.

Why can't it be like the 2nd half of the Stoke game more often, and for 90 minutes?

The Ipswich game really peed me off to the extent I was wondering what the hell I was doing there long before the end. Such crap, such a waste of time.It's really hard work to justify a £500 spend with the promise of similar next season, hence I haven't done so yet.

There maybe an amount of truth in your first sentence. There have been many worse times during my City career. 7-1 away to Northampton, an Easter Saturday in 1960 when we conceded two goals in 90th minute to give the relegation nail a solid hammering with a 2-3 defeat. There are dozens of other times not worth remembering. Many caused by lack of investment in the playing staff, injuries to key players, poor managers, poor players.

I think what hurts me so much now, is that we have 90% of a super modern stadium, a perfect pitch that does not appear lacking in grass at any stage of the season, a quality of squad and those coming through the Academy that is possibly the best we've ever had, except maybe on very few occasions (1909, 1955, 1976-79).

Yet we are having to watch such turgid home games with only one or two attempts on target. Dismal first halves, usually with a soft goal conceded, followed by a gung ho last twenty minutes desperately trying to get an equaliser or winner. If a goal happens, then most seem happy, and conveniently ignore / forget the dross that preceded it.

Perhaps I am getting old but I go to football and rugby for entertainment, excitement and quality of performance. I can put up with losing so long as we give it a go.

And Mr Johnson's football is not giving me what I want.

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24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh agree, we need to support whoever is up front better. Would actually consider Weimann as lone striker, well I say lone striker 4-3-3/4-5-1 depending on phases of play- certainly wouldn't leave him isolated at home especially.

Just think time to drop Diedhiou perhaps, 4-3-3 Weimann up front getting 2 of O'Dowda, Eliasson, Paterson or Palmer up in and around, then Brownhill, Pack and one other...Morrell could help fill the gap? Or obviously if fit, one of Smith and Walsh but we need to get back to some fluid football if we can- the current setup isn't quite working from a results POV and was hit and miss from an entertainment one too I thought.

Yes not  disagreeing with your comment but the question was do you feel youve been entertained whilst  doing better or was ive not enjoyed home games so much this season got ticket for sheff unt away and season ticket next year lets hope he plays more attractive stuff next year

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16 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes not  disagreeing with your comment but the question was do you feel youve been entertained whilst  doing better or was ive not enjoyed home games so much this season got ticket for sheff unt away and season ticket next year lets hope he plays more attractive stuff next year

In many ways no, but we've been unlucky not to score more goals IMO.

24 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

22 goals in 19 games is very poor so the lack of entertainment is probably correct 

11 woodwork and 2 arguably wrongly disallowed goals too though...in 19 games that's quite high- don't you recall the near misses?

That indicates more chances are being created than the baseline goals per game would suggest. Because when more chances are created, the underlying entertainment isn't always so bad.

Let's turn it on its head though...what you really want and I guess we all really want is entertaining football that wins games or winning football that entertains. Those Sunderland and Hull games would have neutrals cheering to the rafters...yet we were all thoroughly pissed off as we dropped 4 valuable points.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In many ways no, but we've been unlucky not to score more goals IMO.

11 woodwork and 2 arguably wrongly disallowed goals too though...in 19 games that's quite high- don't you recall the near misses?

That indicates more chances are being created than the baseline goals per game would suggest.

Most of our near misses come late on when we are chasing the winner, you would probably be on to a winner if you could buy a season ticket just for the second half of games

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10 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Most of our near misses come late on when we are chasing the winner, you would probably be on to a winner if you could buy a season ticket just for the second half of games

Not always.

Off the top of my head...

  • Middlesbrough 2 woodwork- yes agreed, we were pushing hard and it was late- though we deserved the loss, 2-1 would have been fairer.
  • Sheffield Wednesday- Kelly woodwork first half.
  • Hull woodwork- 2nd half but not too late in game.
  • Stoke at home- Diedhiou hit it twice, fairly sure one was in first half. First half v them wasn't so terrible anyway.
  • Didn't we hit it 1st half at home to Millwall.
  • Unsure on timings v Rotherham or Bolton but get the feeling they were 2nd half, if not quite late.
  • Ipswich was first half wasn't it?

I'll double check these though- memory maybe hazy.

Disallowed goals? Pisano was definitely 2nd half v QPR, Weimann was first half v Swansea when it was all kicking off.

Mixed bag tbh, bit more of an emphasis on first half but by no means most.

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1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

I don't think you could argue we put in a '90 minute performance' for any of those to be honest

How many teams, outside the top 2 or 3,  in this (or any division) regularly put on 90 minutes of dominating, free flowing, attacking yet defensively sound football..? 

I think some people on this thread might be confusing turning up at Ashton Gate, with turning up at the Ethihad or the Nou camp..! 

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2 hours ago, where's the joy said:

now that the season is set to fall away from us, i am struggling to remember a game where we have played 2 halves of good, attractive football.

i am not bashing the manager just saddened that there have been so few shots on goal, goals, incidents and attractive patterns of play.

how much better did our centre forward look with Reid up top with him before the big exit of our 3 best players and how much crisper was our passing last year?

i've renewed my season ticket praying that we start playing football on the floor next year and unearth a striker from our midfield.

praying that at least Vyner is ready to step up and that COD stays, plays in the middle and starts scoring goals. 

praying not expecting

how do you see it?

Entertained?

Ive been entertained for 30 years by supporting my local club with friends and family.

If all fans judged their existence on footballing entertainment there would only be 3 clubs with fans.

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