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Bielsa - Don't believe the hype


Harry

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We've had Marcelo Bielsa pretty rammed down our throats all season since he joined Leeds.  Obviously he came in as a 'big' name.  The media have been all over him.  Leeds fans thought they were going to witness the 2nd coming.

I've been wondering about him though.  He's clearly been categorised as some sort of 'character' in the managerial game, but is that deceiving us all to his actual ability as a manager.  I've looked at his history :

He started off quite well.  Winning the Argentinian league on penalties (they play 2 seasons of 19 games and the winners of each season play each other in a final - they finished 1st in the opening season and 8th in the closing season).

They then won the 'closing season' again 2 years later.

He roamed around Mexico for 4 seasons, without any success.

He then returned to Argentina and won another 'closing' season.

He got the Argentinian national job.  Qualified for the 2002 World Cup where they went out at the Group Stage - that's a huge failure.

He was unemployed for 3 years after that.

Came back to take Chile to the 2010 World Cup, where they went out in the 2nd round.

Went to Bilbao.  Finished 10th & 12th in the league in 2 seasons, but did get them to the final of the Europa League.  For context, Braga & Fulham had made the finals the 2 years prior.  He was sacked after 2 years.

Next was Marseille.  They were top at Christmas and ended up 4th.  He left after 1 season.

Turned up in Lazio.  Where he lasted 2 days!

Next was Lille.  He was sacked after 6 months.

And now he's wound up at Leeds, where he's lauded as some sort of managerial god.

Looking at his record, he hasn't achieved anything outside of a couple of Argie titles.  In fact, you could argue that he's failed almost everywhere.  He took Bilbao from a team that finished 6th in the league to 10th & 12th.  He failed to get a talented Argentina squad out of the group stage at a World Cup.  He's done nothing at Atlas, America, Marseille & Lille, and he's courted controversy most places he's been.

So, I'm asking - can anyone please explain to me what it is about Bielsa that he is so revered.  What is the hype?

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So, I'm asking - can anyone please explain to me what it is about Bielsa that he is so revered.  What is the hype?

It is not hype. His methods influence some of the worlds best coaches. His tactics are so brave and innovative, sometimes out there he is named El Loco. His ideas on defensive high lines (40 metres +) and aggressive pressing now influence this Country. He influenced Guardiola and that influenced the world via his Bilbao side. Ideas we now talk about Bielsa did first or close to it.

His training to meet the demands of high tempo football legendary.

His preparation … Well the FL have to change the rules here. 

You can be a great coach and win very little - Bielsa has developed football coaching.  

 

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36 minutes ago, Harry said:

We've had Marcelo Bielsa pretty rammed down our throats all season since he joined Leeds.  Obviously he came in as a 'big' name.  The media have been all over him.  Leeds fans thought they were going to witness the 2nd coming.

I've been wondering about him though.  He's clearly been categorised as some sort of 'character' in the managerial game, but is that deceiving us all to his actual ability as a manager.  I've looked at his history :

He started off quite well.  Winning the Argentinian league on penalties (they play 2 seasons of 19 games and the winners of each season play each other in a final - they finished 1st in the opening season and 8th in the closing season).

They then won the 'closing season' again 2 years later.

He roamed around Mexico for 4 seasons, without any success.

He then returned to Argentina and won another 'closing' season.

He got the Argentinian national job.  Qualified for the 2002 World Cup where they went out at the Group Stage - that's a huge failure.

He was unemployed for 3 years after that.

Came back to take Chile to the 2010 World Cup, where they went out in the 2nd round.

Went to Bilbao.  Finished 10th & 12th in the league in 2 seasons, but did get them to the final of the Europa League.  For context, Braga & Fulham had made the finals the 2 years prior.  He was sacked after 2 years.

Next was Marseille.  They were top at Christmas and ended up 4th.  He left after 1 season.

Turned up in Lazio.  Where he lasted 2 days!

Next was Lille.  He was sacked after 6 months.

And now he's wound up at Leeds, where he's lauded as some sort of managerial god.

Looking at his record, he hasn't achieved anything outside of a couple of Argie titles.  In fact, you could argue that he's failed almost everywhere.  He took Bilbao from a team that finished 6th in the league to 10th & 12th.  He failed to get a talented Argentina squad out of the group stage at a World Cup.  He's done nothing at Atlas, America, Marseille & Lille, and he's courted controversy most places he's been.

So, I'm asking - can anyone please explain to me what it is about Bielsa that he is so revered.  What is the hype?

O’Driscoll syndrome.

:yes:

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17 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

So, I'm asking - can anyone please explain to me what it is about Bielsa that he is so revered.  What is the hype?

It is not hype. His methods influence some of the worlds best coaches. His tactics are so brave and innovative, sometimes out there he is named El Loco. His ideas on defensive high lines (40 metres +) and aggressive pressing now influence this Country. He influenced Guardiola and that influenced the world via his Bilbao side. Ideas we now talk about Bielsa did first or close to it.

His training to meet the demands of high tempo football legendary.

His preparation … Well the FL have to change the rules here. 

You can be a great coach and win very little - Bielsa has developed football coaching.  

 

Apart from all that , What has Bielsa ever done for us ? 

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26 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

So, I'm asking - can anyone please explain to me what it is about Bielsa that he is so revered.  What is the hype?

It is not hype. His methods influence some of the worlds best coaches. His tactics are so brave and innovative, sometimes out there he is named El Loco. His ideas on defensive high lines (40 metres +) and aggressive pressing now influence this Country. He influenced Guardiola and that influenced the world via his Bilbao side. Ideas we now talk about Bielsa did first or close to it.

His training to meet the demands of high tempo football legendary.

His preparation … Well the FL have to change the rules here. 

You can be a great coach and win very little - Bielsa has developed football coaching.  

 

All well and good. He may have great ideas and philosophies, but he hasn’t turned that into success - whereas others he’s supposedly influenced have done. 

So, based on that - why would you want to employ him. You’re better off employing one of his disciples. 

He clearly has great ideas but can’t deliver on them. 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

All well and good. He may have great ideas and philosophies, but he hasn’t turned that into success - whereas others he’s supposedly influenced have done. 

So, based on that - why would you want to employ him. You’re better off employing one of his disciples. 

He clearly has great ideas but can’t deliver on them. 

100%

I would want him to also oversee more than just the XI and create a universal playing approach from the academy upwards including training methodology. 

Totally out thought Lee Johnson recently and its not a reflection of LJ. And has quickly implemented a style of play at Leeds in months and raised the profile of their club. He will leave a lasting legacy of influence and ideas behind .. 

 

 

 

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I have done a few things on Bielsa on our forum if you are interested.

Some think he is overhyped and what not but its up to opinion.

Edit oh ffs, I'll just copy them here and if you fancy reading feel free?

They are extremely long. 

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Theres a bit of worry with the reoorted fee for Dan James, while the Welsh international is clearly talented with a lot of potential he is nowhere near the finished article. 

So if reports are to be believed the fee for James will be close to the fee we paid for proven Championship striker Patrick Bamford.

Seems a lot of money, but imo the one key to this is Bielsa, its reported MB is driving this, he has seen something in James that he really likes, and for that reason Daniel James is worth the fee.

MB is a great coach, a man who legends of the game such as Inter icon Javier Zanetti regard as vital in there careers. 

But what isnt talked about as much as how great a coach he is, is what an incredible eye for talent he has. 

In the early 1990s Bielsa joined Mexican side Atlas FC as a Director Of Football (he later became the manager/head coach), his job was to identify the next generation of stars, coach and train them. He revolutionised scouting in Mexico, to this day Bielsa's methods are still widely used in Mexico. 

Bielsa personally helped identify and train many future legends of Mexican Football during his time there. Jared Borgetti, the 2nd highest Mexican national goalscorer behind Javier Hernandez, Pavel Pardo the 2nd highest Mexican national team appearance maker who had a decent spell in Germany with Stuttgart, Mexican goalkeeping legend Oswaldo Sanchez and the best known in Europe of the bunch former Barcelona and Monaco cb Rafael Marquez. 

The impact Bielsa had on Mexican football is legendary, without his eye for talent and scouting ways they may never have found many of there all time greats.

Similarly his dedication and eye for talent saw Bielsa famously drive around Argentina looking for young players and casually discovering future Argentina cb and La Liga stallwart Maurcio Pochettino and possibly one of the best number 9s of all time Serie A and Argentina goal machine Gabriel Batistuta.

But thats just the start of it, even as National Team manager Bielsa had an eye for spotting the players of the future before they were established at club level. 

In 1999 Pablo Aimar was still a bit part player for River Plate, not yet the skillful playmaker who helped Valencia to 2 La Liga titles or the player that was one of the heroes of Lionel Messi. He had yet to establish himself, but Bielsa saw something in Aimar, giving him his international debut in the Summer of 1999, the following season Aimar inspired River and very soon he was on his way to La Liga. 

There are many more instances of MB being able to see the potential in a young player before most people, Claudio Bravo was trying to establish himself at Colo-Colo in the early 2000s, Bielsa gave him his international debut and made the young man his number 1 before European football had cottoned on.

In July 2003 Bielsa gave a small but fiesty midfielder his international debut, the 19 year old had not played a minute of senior club football,  16 years late this teenager is a multiple La Liga and Champions league winner and his countries most capped player, the 19 year old was Javier Mascherano.

But its not just as an international manager Bielsa has a keen eye for talent and potential, he was the manager who realised Javi Martinez could play cb, he was the manager who realised Dimitri Payet was a number 10 not a winger. 

He was the manager who spotted the potential in 2 of the best defenders in the world, Benjamin Mendy and Aymeric Laporte and gave them there breakthrough while at Marseille and Bilbao.

He saw the talent Mario Lemina had at Marseille and gave him a chance, Lemina went on to join Juventus and then became Southamptons record signing.

And since we are talking about Bielsa as a scout.

In February 2015 a Local newspaper in Marseille reported that Bielsa had identified his main target for that summer, as fate would have it that player was due to play vs Marseille that very evening, he was awesome, inspiring his side to a victory away in Marseille. 

Marseille however wernt willing to fully back Bielsa, they did make an offer but it was lower then needed, the midfielder ended up going elsewhere.

That midfielder is now a World Cup and multiple time Premier league winner, a PFA player of the year and a multiple time fans player of the year, it was N'Golo Kante.

Funnily enough Bielsa had identified his ideal cm partner for Kante as well, Marseille missed out on him to, today PSG are trying to buy him from Everton, Idrissa Gueye.

Bielsa has an extraordinary eye for talent and potential, if he wants James then thats good enough for me, Marseille didnt back there manager and missed out on two of the best midfielders in the world. 

Lille despite the difficult time Bielsa had there did back Bielsa when he identified a pretty unspectacular 21/22 year old  striker/winger, the French side made sure to sign the player Bielsa identified.

That player today is wanted by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester City, Arsenal and many more, he is the most highly wanted striker in Europe with a price tag of £80million.

Lille backed Bielsa when he identified Nicolas Pepe, £8mil seemed ludicrous, he is now worth 10xs that.

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He is a respected coach, an influential coach, but that doesnt necessarily mean he is a successfulone.

Of course in this day and age Football fans judge success quite black and white in most cases, trophies is successful, no trophies not successful.

Its a bit simplistic, but that is how Bielsa gets judged and the main criticism, his lack of trophies, something the man himself has been very open about. 

“I can’t say I’m a successful head coach, I’d rather say the opposite. “One of the things you hear the most when people talk about me is the lack of trophies. You can verify this.” Said Bielsaearlier this month.

But can you really define a successful manager by what trophies he has won? There should be some context surely, some clubs just arent likely to win trophies, most clubs in fact. 

And actually when you look at Bielsa's 2 longest spells in European club football i think he was successful on both counts, 3 seasons at Bilbao and Marseille combined, not 1 trophy to show for it, but imo still successful.

To show why, we need a bit of a history lesson, will start with Athletic Bilbao.

Bilbao are one of the founding members of La Liga and one of only 3 La Liga clubs to never be relegated  (the other 2 are exactly who you would expect). They are 8 time La Liga Champions (4th most) and 24 time Copa Del Rey winners (2nd best), they also have a very successful Ladies Football team to.

All the more impressive when you remember there strict policy of only using Basque players, either from there academy or other Basque clubs, there are no raiding Argentina and Brazil and places for Bilbao.

So Bilbao are a very important club in Spain and a very successful one. However, this is where context is important regarding Bielsa's time there.

While Bilbao have had success historically, since 1956 they have only won 2 La Liga titles, in 82/83 and 83/84, the latter was also the season they won there last Copa Del Rey, Javier Clemente in the 1980s was the last Bilbao manager to deliver trophies to Bilbao.

Since 1984 Bilbao havent really achieved anything of note, nothing in fact if you define success purely by trophies. 

And this is where Bielsa defence comes in.

10th and 12th placed finishes sound poor, but context is important. 

Ok the 2nd season wasnt great, but the 1st season had Bilbao finishing 10th with a squad of 23 playing a 60 plus game season and losing the Copa Del Rey to the best clubs side in the World,Barcelona. Since they last won the Copa Del Rey 35 years ago Bilbao have only made the final 4 times, once was Bielsa. 

But more impressive, Bilbao have never won a European title, they have only got close twice, The UEFA Cup in 1977 where they were runners up, and The Europa League in 2012 under Bielsawhere they ended up losing in the final to Atletico Madrid who finished 5th in La Liga and only a few months later would destroy Champions League winners Chelsea 4-1 in the UEFA Super Cup final, Madrid were on the upturn winning La Liga in 2014.

So but for the bad fortune of having to face one of the best club sides of all time in one domestic final and a face a club who were on the upturn in Madrid who have gone on to finish top 3 every La Liga season since, win the league and be runners up in the Champions league twice, Bilbao could have won the double in Bielsa's first season.

Thats successful isnt it? 

And then Marseille.

They again are one of Frances most successfulclubs, 9 time Ligue 1 Champions and the only French club to win the Champions League. 

They last won Ligue 1 in 2010 under Didier Deschamps, however the season before Bielsathey finished 6th, under Bielsa they finished 4th, so improvement, that's successful isnt it? The season after Bielsa they finished 13th.

Furthermore Bielsa's points total of 69 has quite often in the past been enough to win the Title, indeed its considerably more then Marseille got for 3 of there 4 titles late 80s early 90s. Its also more then Marseille got when they finished 2nd in the mid 2000s. 

Since the 1932/33 season they have played in 43 league seasons of 38 games including Bielsa's season, they have finished with a lower points total then Bielsa did in 37 of those seasons and in some cases finished higher up the league including during 5 title winning seasons.

Furthermore in the recorded history i can find on Marseille since 1933 Marseille have only had a better goal difference then the +34 they had under Bielsa 11 times. 

This is why context is important, on the face of it Bielsa may consider himself unsuccessful, and his critics may to.

But history shows us that he is being unnecessarily harsh on himself, with a bit of luck at Bilbao and Marseille Bielsa could have won league titles and European cups and Domestic Cups in the past. 

Critics can say what they want but Bielsa almost lead Bilbao to there only European success ever, only 1 other coach has got as close as Bielsa did in there history and that was decades before.

He almost lead Bilbao to there first domestic trophy in 35 years and only there 4th final during that time. 

He got a better points total then Marseille managed in 5 of there 9 Ligue 1 titles. 

In 84 years only 11 managers have bettered his goal difference at Marseille. 

His Argentina record wasnt without highlight, the 2004 Copa America runners up medal was the closest Argentina had gotten to winning it since they did win it in 1993, 4 tournaments had past since then. They also won it in 1991 but prior to that you have to go back another 5 tournaments till 1967 when they were runners up again for the next best before Bielsa.

He also lead them to there first ever Olympic Gold, they had failed 9 times previously.

And then his last 16 with Chile, that was successful, apart from revolutionising Chilean and playing a large part in them repeating the last 16 feat 4 years later in 2014 with his mentoring of that group of players (he wasnt manager then).

In 15 World Cups including the 2010 one that Chile tried to play in. 

They only bettered last 16 once in 1962 where they finished 3rd, prior to Bielsa they hadnt qualified since the 1998 World Cup where they did reach the last 16 to.

So what Bielsa did was the joint 2nd best they had done in there history at the time.

Bielsa is widely respected because he is a successful coach, when context is used he definitely is. 

He was successful enough for Argentina to offer him the national team job again in 2016. He was successful enough for Real Madrid to make contact with him over whether he would be interested in the Madrid job back in 2004.

He was successful enough for Inter Milan and Barcelona  to pursue him while he was at Bilbao (reportedly he made it clear he wouldn't leave Bilbao because he had a project to finish when Barcelona asked if he would be interested if and when Pep went).

He is successful enough for a side currently top 10 in the premier league to be looking at him (and approaching him in 2016 to).

He was successful enough for 2 Premier League teams to make contact in 2015 (West Ham and Swansea). 

He was successful enough to be offered the Sampdoria job in the summer of 2015 (and reject it) they had finished 7th in Serie A the previous season.

He was successful enough to be given the job at Lazio who had finished 5th the previous season then walk away from it when they lied to him.

When context is given the cries of "he hasnt won anything, never had a big job waaaaaa" look daft.

He has had big jobs, Marseille and Bilbao are historically two of the biggest jobs in there countries.

He could have had even more big jobs, Lazio, Sampdoria, Inter Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid. 

People find it hard to believe this, that he'd reject teams like that, especially the last 3. But he did, Inter more then once.

Barcelona and Inter because he wanted to show loyalty to Bilbao, and Madrid because he wanted a rest after the Argentina job.

Thats not to say he would definitely have got the Real Madrid and Barcelona job, but as hard as it is for his critics to accept, he was the original prime candidate on both occasions and in the case of Barcelona he had the backing of the star man, he was Lionel Messi's choice.

Bielsa may lack trophies, but circumstances and bad luck played a huge part in that.

Doesn't make him "unsuccessful", he has a fine body of work to be proud of in European club football and International football.

He could have gone to the top clubs like Inter and Barcelona and probably won league titles and whatever.

But he showed loyalty to Bilbao at the time, and very nearly he won a double there to.

He is a very successful coach, trophies dont define a manager, just ask Pep Guardiola.

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Thanks for the comprehensive answer Cjay. 

In short, he was a bit unlucky to not win something with Bilbao and he’s good at spotting and nurturing talent. 

I’ll stand by my earlier comment that he’s probably someone you’d want to be your Director of Football rather than your manager. 

Clearly has something about him then, but not a manager you’d necessarily bring in to win something. Which is what Leeds need. 

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He wouldn’t be managing Leeds if he was Alf Ramsey in his prime, but he has a fantastic reputation.

Im not entirely sure of the point of this thread especially because he has done well with Leeds this season and has played entertaining and successful football, looking like it could end up with promotion to the premiership.

Could be a good thread at the end of the season..

On the LUFC forum

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10 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thanks for the comprehensive answer Cjay. 

In short, he was a bit unlucky to not win something with Bilbao and he’s good at spotting and nurturing talent. 

I’ll stand by my earlier comment that he’s probably someone you’d want to be your Director of Football rather than your manager. 

Clearly has something about him then, but not a manager you’d necessarily bring in to win something. Which is what Leeds need. 

I think his job at Bilbao 1st season was pretty remarkable given the way they operate, a very small talent pool available, the side was made up of mainly free transfers, players who cost less then £1mil and youth team players.

With those resources to get a squad of 23 to a midtable finish and 2 cup finals and then lose to two of the best in Europe at the time was very unfortunate and equally very impressive.

The the 4th place with Marseille was very decent.

I think MB is his own worst enemy at times, very stubborn, wants a small squad, thats going to have an impact.

People will always look at his trophy haul and criticise but i do think thats a bit simplistic.

Understand your point about us but at the same time we are 3rd, he has transformed us with a month or so of work pre season not the years other managers have taken, that takes a very special coach imo.

 

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

We've had Marcelo Bielsa pretty rammed down our throats all season since he joined Leeds.  Obviously he came in as a 'big' name.  The media have been all over him.  Leeds fans thought they were going to witness the 2nd coming.

I've been wondering about him though.  He's clearly been categorised as some sort of 'character' in the managerial game, but is that deceiving us all to his actual ability as a manager.  I've looked at his history :

He started off quite well.  Winning the Argentinian league on penalties (they play 2 seasons of 19 games and the winners of each season play each other in a final - they finished 1st in the opening season and 8th in the closing season).

They then won the 'closing season' again 2 years later.

He roamed around Mexico for 4 seasons, without any success.

He then returned to Argentina and won another 'closing' season.

He got the Argentinian national job.  Qualified for the 2002 World Cup where they went out at the Group Stage - that's a huge failure.

He was unemployed for 3 years after that.

Came back to take Chile to the 2010 World Cup, where they went out in the 2nd round.

Went to Bilbao.  Finished 10th & 12th in the league in 2 seasons, but did get them to the final of the Europa League.  For context, Braga & Fulham had made the finals the 2 years prior.  He was sacked after 2 years.

Next was Marseille.  They were top at Christmas and ended up 4th.  He left after 1 season.

Turned up in Lazio.  Where he lasted 2 days!

Next was Lille.  He was sacked after 6 months.

And now he's wound up at Leeds, where he's lauded as some sort of managerial god.

Looking at his record, he hasn't achieved anything outside of a couple of Argie titles.  In fact, you could argue that he's failed almost everywhere.  He took Bilbao from a team that finished 6th in the league to 10th & 12th.  He failed to get a talented Argentina squad out of the group stage at a World Cup.  He's done nothing at Atlas, America, Marseille & Lille, and he's courted controversy most places he's been.

So, I'm asking - can anyone please explain to me what it is about Bielsa that he is so revered.  What is the hype?

Harry. Oh Harry!! Bielsa is a world class manager. He simply rates the one player you hate ?

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46 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

You lost all credibility when you said Mendy and Laporte are some of the best defenders in the world. Whilst they are good players they are far from being the best.

Mendy maybe not so much, injuries seem to have derailed him.

Laporte is imo, even Pep described him as "the best left sided cb in the world".

He is Manchester Cities 1st choice cb, only Ederson has started more league games and they are one of the top sides in the world.

All open to opinion of course.

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There's something very odd about him.

I was sat behind him at the Leeds game and he was pacing up and down like that old polar bear in Bristol Zoo, he had some very strange mannerisms. 

Then that interview least Saturday with his sidekick translator who looks like a mafia hitman, again very odd. 

I'm just waiting for a weird story to emerge about him, like he's got that Sky reporter locked in his basement

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1 hour ago, Kevin Brady said:

Harry. Oh Harry!! Bielsa is a world class manager. He simply rates the one player you hate ?

Who’s that? Ian Holloway? Only person I’ve ever hated. Didn’t know Bielsa was a fan? 

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The innovator of the modern day high tempo pressing game. Lots of people do this nowadays. In many ways even if Lee doesn't know it, he's been massively influenced by Bielsa.

Why's Luke Ayling there to head the ball across goal? That's what Bielsa coaches.

When the manager consistently gets the teams working hard and attacking, they tend to be liked. When they're successful beyond normal means and history they tend to be revered. He's definitely a manager that asks a lot of his players and they need to buy in real hard for him to be successful. 

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14 hours ago, Cjay said:

Theres a bit of worry with the reoorted fee for Dan James, while the Welsh international is clearly talented with a lot of potential he is nowhere near the finished article. 

So if reports are to be believed the fee for James will be close to the fee we paid for proven Championship striker Patrick Bamford.

Seems a lot of money, but imo the one key to this is Bielsa, its reported MB is driving this, he has seen something in James that he really likes, and for that reason Daniel James is worth the fee.

MB is a great coach, a man who legends of the game such as Inter icon Javier Zanetti regard as vital in there careers. 

But what isnt talked about as much as how great a coach he is, is what an incredible eye for talent he has. 

In the early 1990s Bielsa joined Mexican side Atlas FC as a Director Of Football (he later became the manager/head coach), his job was to identify the next generation of stars, coach and train them. He revolutionised scouting in Mexico, to this day Bielsa's methods are still widely used in Mexico. 

Bielsa personally helped identify and train many future legends of Mexican Football during his time there. Jared Borgetti, the 2nd highest Mexican national goalscorer behind Javier Hernandez, Pavel Pardo the 2nd highest Mexican national team appearance maker who had a decent spell in Germany with Stuttgart, Mexican goalkeeping legend Oswaldo Sanchez and the best known in Europe of the bunch former Barcelona and Monaco cb Rafael Marquez. 

The impact Bielsa had on Mexican football is legendary, without his eye for talent and scouting ways they may never have found many of there all time greats.

Similarly his dedication and eye for talent saw Bielsa famously drive around Argentina looking for young players and casually discovering future Argentina cb and La Liga stallwart Maurcio Pochettino and possibly one of the best number 9s of all time Serie A and Argentina goal machine Gabriel Batistuta.

But thats just the start of it, even as National Team manager Bielsa had an eye for spotting the players of the future before they were established at club level. 

In 1999 Pablo Aimar was still a bit part player for River Plate, not yet the skillful playmaker who helped Valencia to 2 La Liga titles or the player that was one of the heroes of Lionel Messi. He had yet to establish himself, but Bielsa saw something in Aimar, giving him his international debut in the Summer of 1999, the following season Aimar inspired River and very soon he was on his way to La Liga. 

There are many more instances of MB being able to see the potential in a young player before most people, Claudio Bravo was trying to establish himself at Colo-Colo in the early 2000s, Bielsa gave him his international debut and made the young man his number 1 before European football had cottoned on.

In July 2003 Bielsa gave a small but fiesty midfielder his international debut, the 19 year old had not played a minute of senior club football,  16 years late this teenager is a multiple La Liga and Champions league winner and his countries most capped player, the 19 year old was Javier Mascherano.

But its not just as an international manager Bielsa has a keen eye for talent and potential, he was the manager who realised Javi Martinez could play cb, he was the manager who realised Dimitri Payet was a number 10 not a winger. 

He was the manager who spotted the potential in 2 of the best defenders in the world, Benjamin Mendy and Aymeric Laporte and gave them there breakthrough while at Marseille and Bilbao.

He saw the talent Mario Lemina had at Marseille and gave him a chance, Lemina went on to join Juventus and then became Southamptons record signing.

And since we are talking about Bielsa as a scout.

In February 2015 a Local newspaper in Marseille reported that Bielsa had identified his main target for that summer, as fate would have it that player was due to play vs Marseille that very evening, he was awesome, inspiring his side to a victory away in Marseille. 

Marseille however wernt willing to fully back Bielsa, they did make an offer but it was lower then needed, the midfielder ended up going elsewhere.

That midfielder is now a World Cup and multiple time Premier league winner, a PFA player of the year and a multiple time fans player of the year, it was N'Golo Kante.

Funnily enough Bielsa had identified his ideal cm partner for Kante as well, Marseille missed out on him to, today PSG are trying to buy him from Everton, Idrissa Gueye.

Bielsa has an extraordinary eye for talent and potential, if he wants James then thats good enough for me, Marseille didnt back there manager and missed out on two of the best midfielders in the world. 

Lille despite the difficult time Bielsa had there did back Bielsa when he identified a pretty unspectacular 21/22 year old  striker/winger, the French side made sure to sign the player Bielsa identified.

That player today is wanted by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester City, Arsenal and many more, he is the most highly wanted striker in Europe with a price tag of £80million.

Lille backed Bielsa when he identified Nicolas Pepe, £8mil seemed ludicrous, he is now worth 10xs that.

Other than that what has MB ever done for us ? 

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14 hours ago, Cjay said:

He is a respected coach, an influential coach, but that doesnt necessarily mean he is a successfulone.

Of course in this day and age Football fans judge success quite black and white in most cases, trophies is successful, no trophies not successful.

Its a bit simplistic, but that is how Bielsa gets judged and the main criticism, his lack of trophies, something the man himself has been very open about. 

“I can’t say I’m a successful head coach, I’d rather say the opposite. “One of the things you hear the most when people talk about me is the lack of trophies. You can verify this.” Said Bielsaearlier this month.

But can you really define a successful manager by what trophies he has won? There should be some context surely, some clubs just arent likely to win trophies, most clubs in fact. 

And actually when you look at Bielsa's 2 longest spells in European club football i think he was successful on both counts, 3 seasons at Bilbao and Marseille combined, not 1 trophy to show for it, but imo still successful.

To show why, we need a bit of a history lesson, will start with Athletic Bilbao.

Bilbao are one of the founding members of La Liga and one of only 3 La Liga clubs to never be relegated  (the other 2 are exactly who you would expect). They are 8 time La Liga Champions (4th most) and 24 time Copa Del Rey winners (2nd best), they also have a very successful Ladies Football team to.

All the more impressive when you remember there strict policy of only using Basque players, either from there academy or other Basque clubs, there are no raiding Argentina and Brazil and places for Bilbao.

So Bilbao are a very important club in Spain and a very successful one. However, this is where context is important regarding Bielsa's time there.

While Bilbao have had success historically, since 1956 they have only won 2 La Liga titles, in 82/83 and 83/84, the latter was also the season they won there last Copa Del Rey, Javier Clemente in the 1980s was the last Bilbao manager to deliver trophies to Bilbao.

Since 1984 Bilbao havent really achieved anything of note, nothing in fact if you define success purely by trophies. 

And this is where Bielsa defence comes in.

10th and 12th placed finishes sound poor, but context is important. 

Ok the 2nd season wasnt great, but the 1st season had Bilbao finishing 10th with a squad of 23 playing a 60 plus game season and losing the Copa Del Rey to the best clubs side in the World,Barcelona. Since they last won the Copa Del Rey 35 years ago Bilbao have only made the final 4 times, once was Bielsa. 

But more impressive, Bilbao have never won a European title, they have only got close twice, The UEFA Cup in 1977 where they were runners up, and The Europa League in 2012 under Bielsawhere they ended up losing in the final to Atletico Madrid who finished 5th in La Liga and only a few months later would destroy Champions League winners Chelsea 4-1 in the UEFA Super Cup final, Madrid were on the upturn winning La Liga in 2014.

So but for the bad fortune of having to face one of the best club sides of all time in one domestic final and a face a club who were on the upturn in Madrid who have gone on to finish top 3 every La Liga season since, win the league and be runners up in the Champions league twice, Bilbao could have won the double in Bielsa's first season.

Thats successful isnt it? 

And then Marseille.

They again are one of Frances most successfulclubs, 9 time Ligue 1 Champions and the only French club to win the Champions League. 

They last won Ligue 1 in 2010 under Didier Deschamps, however the season before Bielsathey finished 6th, under Bielsa they finished 4th, so improvement, that's successful isnt it? The season after Bielsa they finished 13th.

Furthermore Bielsa's points total of 69 has quite often in the past been enough to win the Title, indeed its considerably more then Marseille got for 3 of there 4 titles late 80s early 90s. Its also more then Marseille got when they finished 2nd in the mid 2000s. 

Since the 1932/33 season they have played in 43 league seasons of 38 games including Bielsa's season, they have finished with a lower points total then Bielsa did in 37 of those seasons and in some cases finished higher up the league including during 5 title winning seasons.

Furthermore in the recorded history i can find on Marseille since 1933 Marseille have only had a better goal difference then the +34 they had under Bielsa 11 times. 

This is why context is important, on the face of it Bielsa may consider himself unsuccessful, and his critics may to.

But history shows us that he is being unnecessarily harsh on himself, with a bit of luck at Bilbao and Marseille Bielsa could have won league titles and European cups and Domestic Cups in the past. 

Critics can say what they want but Bielsa almost lead Bilbao to there only European success ever, only 1 other coach has got as close as Bielsa did in there history and that was decades before.

He almost lead Bilbao to there first domestic trophy in 35 years and only there 4th final during that time. 

He got a better points total then Marseille managed in 5 of there 9 Ligue 1 titles. 

In 84 years only 11 managers have bettered his goal difference at Marseille. 

His Argentina record wasnt without highlight, the 2004 Copa America runners up medal was the closest Argentina had gotten to winning it since they did win it in 1993, 4 tournaments had past since then. They also won it in 1991 but prior to that you have to go back another 5 tournaments till 1967 when they were runners up again for the next best before Bielsa.

He also lead them to there first ever Olympic Gold, they had failed 9 times previously.

And then his last 16 with Chile, that was successful, apart from revolutionising Chilean and playing a large part in them repeating the last 16 feat 4 years later in 2014 with his mentoring of that group of players (he wasnt manager then).

In 15 World Cups including the 2010 one that Chile tried to play in. 

They only bettered last 16 once in 1962 where they finished 3rd, prior to Bielsa they hadnt qualified since the 1998 World Cup where they did reach the last 16 to.

So what Bielsa did was the joint 2nd best they had done in there history at the time.

Bielsa is widely respected because he is a successful coach, when context is used he definitely is. 

He was successful enough for Argentina to offer him the national team job again in 2016. He was successful enough for Real Madrid to make contact with him over whether he would be interested in the Madrid job back in 2004.

He was successful enough for Inter Milan and Barcelona  to pursue him while he was at Bilbao (reportedly he made it clear he wouldn't leave Bilbao because he had a project to finish when Barcelona asked if he would be interested if and when Pep went).

He is successful enough for a side currently top 10 in the premier league to be looking at him (and approaching him in 2016 to).

He was successful enough for 2 Premier League teams to make contact in 2015 (West Ham and Swansea). 

He was successful enough to be offered the Sampdoria job in the summer of 2015 (and reject it) they had finished 7th in Serie A the previous season.

He was successful enough to be given the job at Lazio who had finished 5th the previous season then walk away from it when they lied to him.

When context is given the cries of "he hasnt won anything, never had a big job waaaaaa" look daft.

He has had big jobs, Marseille and Bilbao are historically two of the biggest jobs in there countries.

He could have had even more big jobs, Lazio, Sampdoria, Inter Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid. 

People find it hard to believe this, that he'd reject teams like that, especially the last 3. But he did, Inter more then once.

Barcelona and Inter because he wanted to show loyalty to Bilbao, and Madrid because he wanted a rest after the Argentina job.

Thats not to say he would definitely have got the Real Madrid and Barcelona job, but as hard as it is for his critics to accept, he was the original prime candidate on both occasions and in the case of Barcelona he had the backing of the star man, he was Lionel Messi's choice.

Bielsa may lack trophies, but circumstances and bad luck played a huge part in that.

Doesn't make him "unsuccessful", he has a fine body of work to be proud of in European club football and International football.

He could have gone to the top clubs like Inter and Barcelona and probably won league titles and whatever.

But he showed loyalty to Bilbao at the time, and very nearly he won a double there to.

He is a very successful coach, trophies dont define a manager, just ask Pep Guardiola.

All this wonderful post summed up by the phrase «  with a bit of luck « 

 

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Marcelo Bielsa is well-known because of his tactical approach, whereas Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp, and Jose Mourinho are well-known because of success, and then down to the style of play that gives them that success.

I believe in the hype of Bielsa, and I was actually surprised to see him join a club in the Championship, since IMO he could've probably landed a job at a relegation threatened club in the Premier League. What surprised me the most is that his team has continued their push up the table, because one of the known issues with "Bielsaball" is that his teams start out brilliantly, and fall to pieces when the players are understandably tired.

If they get promoted, fair play to Leeds, but I'm really interested to see how long he lasts in the Premier League.

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