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Max o'leary


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On ‎12‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 10:23, Davefevs said:

And yet you don’t balance your argument with any of the saves he’s made.  

Personally, I would rather play Max and accept it being unfortunate if ultimately injuries to Frank and Niki cost us play-offs / promotion.  He will benefit from the experience, and ultimately City will too, because he’ll be “more ready” next time.

In terms of stats and highlights from my memory:

Brentford - clean sheet (so no errors to add to glaringly large amount of goals conceded) and two fantastic saves, one a point blank reaction save, the other tipping a Watkins shot on the angle against 

Hull - clean sheet (so no errors to add to glaringly large amount of goals conceded) and one brilliant save early on when he was going the wrong way.

Stoke - one goal conceded, no chance as Fletcher was allowed to control a ball 7-8 yards out and volley home.

Reading - conceded 3 - Meite scored from a 12 yard shot having been presented with the ball from a defensive mistake.  Kelly curled a 25 yarder in.  It’s the kind of long-range goal that Frankie has a slight weakness with.  3rd goal, breakaway, sidefoot from 10 yards.  So still nothing to add to the glaringly large amount of goals conceded.

Preston - no goals conceded after coming on as sub.  General consensus was that he was assured and confident

Leeds - yep, potentially at fault, but it was the same kind of ball across the 6 yard box where staying on his line meant he saved v Hull and West Brom.  Ya win some ya lose some. Some 1 error in total so far.

Sheffield Utd - 2 conceded.  First one, the fault wasn’t with staying on his line (when Diedhiou got tripped by Sharp), but failing to react and get a hand to the header.  A bit static with his reactions.  Baldock’s cross to Sharp for the second he had no chance with.

Boro - clean sheet, plus important saves.

Wigan - Reece James worldy....although still think a keeper should dive for everything...ya never know.  But it was a bit of a brilliant-mishit from James.  Second goal, bit of head tennis 15 yards from goal, so Max shouldn’t be coming anyway.  No fault for that goal by staying on his line.

West Brom - no chance with Gayle’s header.  No chance he can come through the crowd for Dawson’s flick on for Rodriguez’s goal either.  Plus 2/3 other really good saves.

So I name it a grand total of 1 goal conceded by staying on his line.  If you want to add Leeds then 2....in 10 league games (9 starts - 11 conceded in total, including games against all of the top 4).

If you’d said you wish he came off his line more but not added the bit about glaring amount of goals, I'd agree to an extent.  There have been times when he hasn’t been totally committed / confident coming into a pack of players....but it’s not true that it has cost us goals.  I think his positioning when the ball is 25 yards from goal, should be 2-3 yards further off his line...Frankie is the same.

As a 22 year old keeper he has a lot to learn, but he has covered our two experienced keepers as well as we could’ve expected imho.

Sorry to go through in detail, I just think there is too much criticism on this forum when it’s not justified.  Feel free to counter my arguments.

Sorry Dave, I don't see why I should mention or balance my argument with the saves he's made, he is supposed to after all, even at his youngish age. Pickford as an example made 29 appearances in the premiership at the age of 21. My comparison is only of age and not ability in that respect. After watching the highlights, I stand by my original statement and that was, referring to his inclination to react to shots, however close in to goal, as opposed to narrow the angle or intercept the ball. He has a tendency to let the defenders take responsibility, by staying on his line and trying to save a shot, rather than to smother a shot. I believe this is a natural instinct you either have or don't. A natural desire to keep the ball out by going in where you might get hurt. Can't say I appreciate the sarcastic references to "glaringly large amount of goals conceded". I referred to four goals which I believe could have been prevented, looking through the highlights, there are a couple more that you've mentioned that he could/should have done better at. So, even if it were only four goals conceded in his ten games and twenty five minutes, I think that does constitute a glaringly large amount of goals in the total of fourteen conceded in those appearances, especially when there were similar situations in other games where the striker has hit the ball straight at him, in those cases people are classing them as great saves, I beg to differ. As you say, you win some you lose some. 

I think it was cowshed who stated that kicking is two thirds of the art of keeping goal in todays game.  Obviously that is a very important part of the game which Max has so far been very good at but, positioning, organising and generally preventing goals by being positive in your actions are in my opinion, far more important. As a young keeper, he will learn and improve those aspects of his game. It is a specialist position within the team but, also one where you have to put your body on the line to prevent conceding, I'm just not sure he has that will/desire or physical presence. It is also a position which leaves you open to more scrutiny than outfield players and as such takes a brave person to stand between the sticks. I hope to be proven wrong regards his desire to go in where it hurts to prevent a goal and he goes on to have a good future in the game.

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27 minutes ago, Rich said:

Sorry Dave, I don't see why I should mention or balance my argument with the saves he's made, he is supposed to after all, even at his youngish age. Pickford as an example made 29 appearances in the premiership at the age of 21. My comparison is only of age and not ability in that respect. After watching the highlights, I stand by my original statement and that was, referring to his inclination to react to shots, however close in to goal, as opposed to narrow the angle or intercept the ball. He has a tendency to let the defenders take responsibility, by staying on his line and trying to save a shot, rather than to smother a shot. I believe this is a natural instinct you either have or don't. A natural desire to keep the ball out by going in where you might get hurt. Can't say I appreciate the sarcastic references to "glaringly large amount of goals conceded". I referred to four goals which I believe could have been prevented, looking through the highlights, there are a couple more that you've mentioned that he could/should have done better at. So, even if it were only four goals conceded in his ten games and twenty five minutes, I think that does constitute a glaringly large amount of goals in the total of fourteen conceded in those appearances, especially when there were similar situations in other games where the striker has hit the ball straight at him, in those cases people are classing them as great saves, I beg to differ. As you say, you win some you lose some. 

I think it was cowshed who stated that kicking is two thirds of the art of keeping goal in todays game.  Obviously that is a very important part of the game which Max has so far been very good at but, positioning, organising and generally preventing goals by being positive in your actions are in my opinion, far more important. As a young keeper, he will learn and improve those aspects of his game. It is a specialist position within the team but, also one where you have to put your body on the line to prevent conceding, I'm just not sure he has that will/desire or physical presence. It is also a position which leaves you open to more scrutiny than outfield players and as such takes a brave person to stand between the sticks. I hope to be proven wrong regards his desire to go in where it hurts to prevent a goal and he goes on to have a good future in the game.

Rich, more than entitled to your opinion, that’s what it’s all about.

For info he didn’t play in either game against Birmingham.  We will have to agree to disagree Re Stoke.  I don’t see a contested header 12-15 yards out falling to Fletcher 7-8 yards out as making any difference.  Had he been 6 yards off his line from the original cross, I'd argue he was wrongly positioned in the first place.  Which goal v Wigan do you blame his being stuck on his line for?  First or second?

For Info Pickford’s 29 appearances were by age of 23, not 21 (16/17 season)...he’s now 25.  But equivalent age to Max is now, so fair comparison...if based on age, not on pedigree, 

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rich, more than entitled to your opinion, that’s what it’s all about.

For info he didn’t play in either game against Birmingham.  We will have to agree to disagree Re Stoke.  I don’t see a contested header 12-15 yards out falling to Fletcher 7-8 yards out as making any difference.  Had he been 6 yards off his line from the original cross, I'd argue he was wrongly positioned in the first place.  Which goal v Wigan do you blame his being stuck on his line for?  First or second?

For Info Pickford’s 29 appearances were by age of 23, not 21 (16/17 season)...he’s now 25.  But equivalent age to Max is now, so fair comparison...if based on age, not on pedigree, 

Don't know why I said Brum, I meant Leeds. Ayling headed the ball back across the six yard line and he could almost have walked out to pick it up. He chose to stay still, until jumping up and to the side, once the ball had reached the striker. Against Stoke, he might have thought Kelly would have dealt with it but again, he chose to not close down the striker who had time to bring it down and volley it into the net. Had he come out as Fletcher was receiving the ball, bare in mind he's  watched the flight of the ball, he would have been right on top of him, restricting his ability to shoot. Wigan, in my opinion, I think he thought it was going high and wide but, it completely surprised him. He looked stunned to see it in the net, others around me also thought he didn't go for it, as he thought it was going wide . The second Wigan goal he decided to sit down twice and try to stop the shot with his feet, bit harsh maybe but, he seemed slow to react. I am not on a witch hunt, just pointing out that we might well suffer due to his inexperience. Yet our other available GK has been completely written off by our experts on this forum, after one game, in which he was not to blame for an inept team performance, in terrible gusting conditions, where he was put under constant pressure from poorly hit back passes from team mates, the closing down from the opposition and his own lack of recent game time. That is ******* ridiculous.

As for Pickford, yes, the site I looked on had him playing two seasons in 2017/2018, so I removed an extra year.

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16 minutes ago, Rich said:

Yet our other available GK has been completely written off

I don't think he's been completely written off, but most could see he was totally not up to speed with championship football and more than a bit rusty. He very nearly cocked up a clearance in the first couple of minutes by under estimating the guy closing him down, and from that moment on you could see the defence was totally lacking in any confidence in him and it affected the performance of the team. I don't blame the guy, it was a very poor decision to play him.

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23 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

I don't think he's been completely written off, but most could see he was totally not up to speed with championship football and more than a bit rusty. He very nearly cocked up a clearance in the first couple of minutes by under estimating the guy closing him down, and from that moment on you could see the defence was totally lacking in any confidence in him and it affected the performance of the team. I don't blame the guy, it was a very poor decision to play him.

To be honest, some of the comments on here and the Facebook page are comical in their ignorance. It seems that just because a few have posted negative comments, others have to copy like sheep, to court favour themselves.

I watched him in the warm up and thought he looked a bit slow, obviously the opposition would also know of him and his abilities, so targeted him, just as they would do with Max or any player not quite up to the pace. I honestly think he wasn't helped  by his team mates who dropped some passes short, or slow, possibly through a lack of confidence in him. We also must remember that the conditions were awful and got worse for the second half, with the wind gusting towards the South Stand, something people didn't consider in his after match crucifixion. He wasn't the only player to suffer in the conditions but, he took the brunt of the criticism for the team, in a poor team performance.

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