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If we go up which ex-City player would you like to come back ?

Major Isewater

By Major Isewater
in Football Chat

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Completely false  Baker was signed to replace Flint, when Flint was told he had to leave. Then it was turned on him that his head was turned. Total BS. Then LJ went and pleaded for Kalas despite having spent big on Baker and then Webster. He needed a first ball winner to play alongside a player that can bring the ball out from the back. It is pretty obvious , who did Kalas replace ? Flint. In the end has the defence improved ? Slightly in terms of goals conceded, we are 2 better off conceded and 5 worse off in terms of goals scored after 39 games. The defence remains competitive at this level, the attack miles off fort an automatic push. No disgrace, you need a good defence first . 

There is a degree of truth in that, but it’s not correct. The simple facts are this:

- LJ wanted to change to a style of being comfortable with the ball at the back and building from the back. Flint isn’t conducive to that 

- Our first choice centre backs last season were Baker and Flint - so we already had a “first baller” to play alongside Webster

- Webster was signed on the day Flint left. We needed the funds from one to get the other. Most key, you don’t need to be an identikit player to be a replacement. It was a replacement of a different, better, style. Are you accusing LJ of bull in the article?

- The first choice centre half’s at the start of the season were Baker and Webster

- We signed Kalas only after the QPR away game when Pisano was centre half. At that point we were rumoured for James Collins (a first ball CH) as Baker was injured and Bailey Wright for longer than expected

- So, If you tell me Kalas was Bakers replacement, I agree. He wasn’t Flints.

Bottom line is this, returning to the subject. We used the funds from a player who had reached his ceiling to buy his replacement, playing in the same position who had a higher ceiling. Flint wouldn’t get in our side as he’s too “bubbled” on his own game and not good enough at playing out from the back. I was maybe in the minority as I was happy when he was sold (helped that I knew of Webster) as I believed he unbalanced the side a lot despite individual qualities. So I wouldn’t have him back, not in a promotion chasing side or definitely not next level up

 

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Bristol Oil Services

Bristol Oil Services

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

There is a degree of truth in that, but it’s not correct. The simple facts are this:

- LJ wanted to change to a style of being comfortable with the ball at the back and building from the back. Flint isn’t conducive to that 

- Our first choice centre backs last season were Baker and Flint - so we already had a “first baller” to play alongside Webster

- Webster was signed on the day Flint left. We needed the funds from one to get the other. Most key, you don’t need to be an identikit player to be a replacement. It was a replacement of a different, better, style. Are you accusing LJ of bull in the article?

- The first choice centre half’s at the start of the season were Baker and Webster

- We signed Kalas only after the QPR away game when Pisano was centre half. At that point we were rumoured for James Collins (a first ball CH) as Baker was injured and Bailey Wright for longer than expected

- So, If you tell me Kalas was Bakers replacement, I agree. He wasn’t Flints.

Bottom line is this, returning to the subject. We used the funds from a player who had reached his ceiling to buy his replacement, playing in the same position who had a higher ceiling. Flint wouldn’t get in our side as he’s too “bubbled” on his own game and not good enough at playing out from the back. I was maybe in the minority as I was happy when he was sold (helped that I knew of Webster) as I believed he unbalanced the side a lot despite individual qualities. So I wouldn’t have him back, not in a promotion chasing side or definitely not next level up

 

Flint is in a promotion chasing side, remember  (well, they were up until about last Tuesday) and part of a non-too-shabby defence, either; statistically, a better one than ours this season. Which some people tend to overlook for some reason. And as @billywedlock says, this season's defence is "better" by 2 goals conceded at the same stage - another fact overlooked by some. We are better - and better looking - in possession at the back, but not significantly at stopping the opposition scoring.

Flint is also playing now for a boss that "fancies" him, which he wasn't here. All very important to a player.

Whether he was too big for his boots here, and an undermining influence, I cannot say. Nor can anyone else on here.

The point about Flint going at the top of his value is a good one - we had Flint at the right time, and moved him on at the right time. Now we have Webster at the right time.

The defence has been porous recently, too, just when we really need them to be the opposite; just as we are chasing a play off place. 

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Flint is in a promotion chasing side, remember  (well, they were up until about last Tuesday) and part of a non-too-shabby defence, either; statistically, a better one than ours this season. Which some people tend to overlook for some reason. And as @billywedlock says, this season's defence is "better" by 2 goals conceded at the same stage - another fact overlooked by some. We are better - and better looking - in possession at the back, but not significantly at stopping the opposition scoring.

Flint is also playing now for a boss that "fancies" him, which he wasn't here. All very important to a player.

Whether he was too big for his boots here, and an undermining influence, I cannot say. Nor can anyone else on here.

The point about Flint going at the top of his value is a good one - we had Flint at the right time, and moved him on at the right time. Now we have Webster at the right time.

The defence has been porous recently, too, just when we really need them to be the opposite; just as we are chasing a play off place. 

Just to be clear, I don’t have any evidence or any gut feel AF was too big for his boots while he was here and apologies if that was the impression. My problem with him was more that I felt he was too hyper focused on his own game that, even if he played well in isolation, it often resulted in a poor team performance as he didn’t do the unseen work that helps others. I realise that’s not a popular view on OTIB but as @Davefevs and others may vouch, I have been consistent in it even when AF was here.

As for the other points - Pulis is renowned as ultra defensive. With that in mind, it’d be strange if Boro didn’t have a good goals conceded record. However, per their forum (again, I realise not always the most accurate source particularly after a defeat), they definitely consider AF to be the weakest link:

https://fansonline.net/middlesbrough/mb/view.php?id=5894639

I’d also say we’ve got more porous while going through a GK crisis - but are still winning games so that’s testament to the team effort, totally agree though I would like us to look far tighter than we did against Wigan.

Bringing it back to the point again, Webster replaced Flint; Kalas replaced Baker. Both Webster and Kalas are better than Flint, and he, from the (admittedly biased after a loss Boro forum) is not having the best of times at a promotion chasing side. So, I stand by my last assertion :)

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Gary Collier...no contest

An earlier poster commented on the spine - mentioned Wedlock,  Kellard and Big John.

I'd go Collier, Gow, Cheesley

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just to be clear, I don’t have any evidence or any gut feel AF was too big for his boots while he was here and apologies if that was the impression. My problem with him was more that I felt he was too hyper focused on his own game that, even if he played well in isolation, it often resulted in a poor team performance as he didn’t do the unseen work that helps others. I realise that’s not a popular view on OTIB but as @Davefevs and others may vouch, I have been consistent in it even when AF was here.

As for the other points - Pulis is renowned as ultra defensive. With that in mind, it’d be strange if Boro didn’t have a good goals conceded record. However, per their forum (again, I realise not always the most accurate source particularly after a defeat), they definitely consider AF to be the weakest link:

https://fansonline.net/middlesbrough/mb/view.php?id=5894639

I’d also say we’ve got more porous while going through a GK crisis - but are still winning games so that’s testament to the team effort, totally agree though I would like us to look far tighter than we did against Wigan.

Bringing it back to the point again, Webster replaced Flint; Kalas replaced Baker. Both Webster and Kalas are better than Flint, and he, from the (admittedly biased after a loss Boro forum) is not having the best of times at a promotion chasing side. So, I stand by my last assertion :)

True. 

I liked Flint, but he was not a leader. He knew he was best when concentrating on HIS game. That is fair enough, he gave us some fantastic performances. It’s why he didn’t want to be captain. 

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Totally agree, but as I could only pick one...

Based on your forum name Im guessing you're a similar age to me, so we are allowed a bit of leeway.

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RedM

RedM

Posted
Posted

Apart from Moysie...

For pure pie in the Sky fantasy I would love to bring back Albert. I loved watching him and his fun attitude, he never got to experience good times with us so bring him back and we can love him again.

But the return of Tammy would be immense, almost on par with hearing about the return of Scotty all those years ago

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

I've actually looked into Tammy's underlying numbers a bit. Briefly.

The basic conclusion to date is he is so much more clinical than Diedhiou- but that aside there seem to be a lot of similarities.

He is better yes, but in the PL will a relatively limited all-round game- and I appreciate he is 21 and time is very much on his side to kick right on wherever he ends up- but would that relatively limited all-round game in a likely bottom half side be a good fit? Reid has a better all-round game, certainly when adjusted for Tammy's first PL season and Reid's final one with us.

Not an argument for or against, just a different angle that strips out sentiment.

I suppose though of the likely to be realistic best players we could sign in that respect, who have played for us and are still going at a decent level he would be right up there if not top.

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