4222 explained...LJ ein Leipziger :-)

[spudski]

Good explanation on how it works and why it can't be used over long periods throughout a season.

 

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/12/15/13924976/rb-leipzig-bundesliga-title-naby-keita

https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/tactics-how-rb-leipzig-have-blitzed-the-bundesliga

 

 

[Robbored]

No wonder you’re so knowledgeable regarding formations and tactics Spudski.

Fascinating stuff. 

 

[Prinny]

That perfectly highlights the strengths and weaknesses of what the system does.

If you wonder why we need runners in midfield. If you wonder why Jack Hunt got exposed when we started with it. If you wonder why Kasey Palmer didn't start, this shows it.

[East End Old Boy]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

Good explanation on how it works and why it can't be used over long periods throughout a season.

 

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/12/15/13924976/rb-leipzig-bundesliga-title-naby-keita

https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/tactics-how-rb-leipzig-have-blitzed-the-bundesliga

 

 

Thanks for posting, now you could almost change Leipzig to Bristol City!

[spudski]

23 minutes ago, Prinny said:

That perfectly highlights the strengths and weaknesses of what the system does.

If you wonder why we need runners in midfield. If you wonder why Jack Hunt got exposed when we started with it. If you wonder why Kasey Palmer didn't start, this shows it.

Exactly...and much more. It's easy to understand and a good watch for any fan who wishes to understand why certain systems can't be employed all the time.

[Rudolf Hucker]

Thanks Spud. Very interesting.

One of the best things, I think, that any coach can have in his armoury is the ability to change systems by game or in game. To be adaptable; to do things differently; to keep the opposition guessing.

LJ caught out WBA on Tuesday by using a system that the opposition hadn't expected. It worked long enough for us to take advantage and completely screwed up WBA's own game plan. It was clever, inventive and a joy to watch. Dean Smith will have more questions than answers about how we will line up on Saturday and that's a good thing. Advantage LJ.

Of course to be versatile in this way, you need Brownhills and Palmers and the ability to keep them all happy. That's a challenge but one that LJ seems to be handling well.

 

[TonyTonyTony]

That was great.

We are lucky to have a manager who wants to learn and brave enough to mix things up. We have probably used most formations this season at various times and I think that’s what LJ wants - a team that is drilled in several formations and can switch as and when needed. 

Compare and contrast that with more “experienced” managers who only play one way. No thanks

[Lrrr]

Probably no coincidence after LJ's visit a while ago, trip well worth it by the looks. 

[Red Skin]

Really interesting.  Thanks for posting.   

As other have said it's great to have a manager that is willing to learn.  Not just from other football team, but anyone working in elite performance.

It's a cliché when players taught about great team spirit, but to work in an environment where you are challenged to learn and progress so much must make it really interesting place to be.   It's obvious Marlon is pursuing a coaching career, and I won't bet against other working under LJ taking a similar path. 

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

Good explanation on how it works and why it can't be used over long periods throughout a season.

 

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/12/15/13924976/rb-leipzig-bundesliga-title-naby-keita

https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/tactics-how-rb-leipzig-have-blitzed-the-bundesliga

 

 

Thanks Spud.  When I heard LJ refer to 4222 and Leipzig (in his interview) I questioned whether it was a bit of spin on his part, because I’d assumed 4222 was 2DMs, 2CMs and 2CFs, ie. massively narrow and that’s not what I saw on Tuesday.  What I did see was the front 6 condensed in more of a narrow hexagon (if that makes sense).....and that is exactly what the TIFO video explains.  

In some respects it’s not far away from what he started last season with, but the movement to a back 4 of CBs, stopped its true implementation.  With 2 midfielders like Webster and Pack (or Smith for either), your industrious Brownhill and on Tuesday, a more energetic Eliasson, coupled with Weimann swapping to allow the odd breather, it was a perfect “surprise” set-up.  Had Hunt not got withdrawn, him and Dasilva would’ve supplemented attacks whilst Pack and Webster covered.  

In the first half we were quite content to let them (West Brom) have it wide....but there was little room inside, so it was perfect cover for the intelligence of Gayle and Rodriguez.

Well done LJ.

The tactic itself will work again. But the surprise factor may be gone.

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks Spud.  When I heard LJ refer to 4222 and Leipzig (in his interview) I questioned whether it was a bit of spin on his part, because I’d assumed 4222 was 2DMs, 2CMs and 2CFs, ie. massively narrow and that’s not what I saw on Tuesday.  What I did see was the front 6 condensed in more of a narrow hexagon (if that makes sense).....and that is exactly what the TIFO video explains.  

In some respects it’s not far away from what he started last season with, but the movement to a back 4 of CBs, stopped its true implementation.  With 2 midfielders like Webster and Pack (or Smith for either), your industrious Brownhill and on Tuesday, a more energetic Eliasson, coupled with Weimann swapping to allow the odd breather, it was a perfect “surprise” set-up.  Had Hunt not got withdrawn, him and Dasilva would’ve supplemented attacks whilst Pack and Webster covered.  

In the first half we were quite content to let them (West Brom) have it wide....but there was little room inside, so it was perfect cover for the intelligence of Gayle and Rodriguez.

Well done LJ.

The tactic itself will work again. But the surprise factor may be gone.

I think LJ said we used it for a bit against Sheffield United and scored 2 while we did, he said we're on 5 goals from about 55 minutes of using the 4-2-2-2.

I think the surprise factor will always be there as it's not commonly used, especially not over here, and 50ish minutes of use after 40odd games is a tiny percentage of game time.

The main surprise with starting it on Tuesday I think came from the team selection. With 3 CBs named and 2 full backs/wing backs everyone expected a 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, rather than Webster being in midfield.

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I think LJ said we used it for a bit against Sheffield United and scored 2 while we did, he said we're on 5 goals from about 55 minutes of using the 4-2-2-2.

I think the surprise factor will always be there as it's not commonly used, especially not over here, and 50ish minutes of use after 40odd games is a tiny percentage of game time.

The main surprise with starting it on Tuesday I think came from the team selection. With 3 CBs named and 2 full backs/wing backs everyone expected a 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, rather than Webster being in midfield.

The bit that made me think he was playing something different was Eliasson’s selection....as couldn’t see him playing anywhere “inside”. 

[Robin Wood]

On the efl show on quest last night the useless Dean Ashton quoted us playing a 4 2 3 2 formation hope the efl don't find out we played with 12 players 

[JamesBCFC]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The bit that made me think he was playing something different was Eliasson’s selection....as couldn’t see him playing anywhere “inside”. 

Thought Eliasson might have played the Pato role, think he did that against Sheffield United in the home game.

[Pezo]

57 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The bit that made me think he was playing something different was Eliasson’s selection....as couldn’t see him playing anywhere “inside”. 

That was the thing that confused me, I thought we looked really unbalanced with the way sky thought we would set up. 

[Show Me The Money!]

Must be very satisfying for players as well as the gaffer where a system is worked on like this over a period of time in training to then show its worth in an actual game

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Robin Wood said:

On the efl show on quest last night the useless Dean Ashton quoted us playing a 4 2 3 2 formation hope the efl don't find out we played with 12 players 

Other than the minor fact that Dean Ashton said 4 2 2 2, your comment about what he said about our formation was spot on.

[Curr Avon]

16 hours ago, spudski said:

Good explanation on how it works and why it can't be used over long periods throughout a season.

 

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/12/15/13924976/rb-leipzig-bundesliga-title-naby-keita

https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/tactics-how-rb-leipzig-have-blitzed-the-bundesliga

 

 

Excellent post Spudski. This formation also helped to expose the Baggies weakness playing out from the back. Pressing high won our first goal when Pack robbed Livermore and another turnover almost gifted Eliasson a second. During Sky's post match coverage they showed a montage of goals conceded by the Baggies due to high pressing.

Another plus was how we how we constantly got bodies ahead of the ball in attacking positions in the first half. It was a joy to watch City take risks in the knowledge that their equidistant lines could counterpress any loose balls, whilst maintaining a stranglehold on the game.