BS4 on Tour... Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, harrys said: All about opinions, unfortunately i’m Old enough to remember Pele, Best, Cruyff and all the Mavericks of the 70’s but no-one comes close to Messi, my dear old dad used to say that Puskas was far and away the best player he ever saw (after big John of course) You’re right - my dear Dad used to wax lyrical about Di Stefano and Duncan Edwards .... opinions are what makes it great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: “A few seasons” ??!!! Best played 705 games - and Messi has played for longer than 12 years (15 years) yet he’s only played 6 games more than Best at this point ... and Best had zero protection from defenders kicking lumps out of him....whilst Messi has enjoyed flourishing in an era when every slight touch is an infringement... Apart from the 300-odd appearances he made for Man United, Best's career was spent at insignificant clubs. Even at Man United, his goals to games ratio pales in comparison to Messi's. Don't get me wrong, he was still fabulous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Pele. Messi is very very good. Ronaldo is very good. Pele is the grand master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said: Apart from the 300-odd appearances he made for Man United, Best's career was spent at insignificant clubs. Even at Man United, his goals to games ratio pales in comparison to Messi's. Don't get me wrong, he was still fabulous! “300-odd” appearances for Man United?! Best played nearly 500 times for Man Yoo .... but I agree with the end of your post....but, different eras, different pitches, different rules - not easy to compare players from vastly different times .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isawjonshaw Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Bobby Charlton felt his wasn’t fit too lace Duncan Edwards boots! So the lad was obviously something special! George Best has to be in the mix to do what he did on the pitches he played on. As much as I don’t want to say it, for me Maradona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverRed Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Apart from the 300-odd appearances he made for Man United, Best's career was spent at insignificant clubs. Even at Man United, his goals to games ratio pales in comparison to Messi's. Don't get me wrong, he was still fabulous! And there in lies the rub. The best player or the best goal scorer? Which are we talking about? Pele certainly knew who the best player was! If you play up front with Dennis Law and Bobby Charlton you May not get as many. By the time Tommy Doc took over at Utd George was a hopeless alcoholic. So yes his career was cut short by disease but that’s a different subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: “300-odd” appearances for Man United?! Best played nearly 500 times for Man Yoo .... but I agree with the end of your post....but, different eras, different pitches, different rules - not easy to compare players from vastly different times .... Yep, always impossible to compare, same as with tennis stars. I think you have to favour the players who have had the discipline to fulfil their potential over those who have not though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, REDOXO said: And there in lies the rub. The best player or the best goal scorer? Which are we talking about? Messi is both for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Messi is both for me Not for me. Best goal scorer? Well you can take your pick. Messi Ronaldo Pele Rush Lineker even Rooney, for a few. All decent forwards. The rest is academic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Not for me. Best goal scorer? Well you can take your pick. Messi Ronaldo Pele Rush Lineker even Rooney, for a few. All decent forwards. The rest is academic! Best goalscorer can more or less be decided on stats alone. None of the above match Messi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 44 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Why wouldn’t he? I don't think is so much a question of asking whether Messi would have survived back in Best's day, but more a question of asking how good Best would have been in the modern era. With modern training methods and the way players are looked after, Best's "lifestyle" would not probably have limited his career at the top the way it did in his day. Playing on modern manicure pitches, in perfect condition right through the season, wearing modern, light weight boots and with the protection now afforded skilful players by the modern interpretation of rules and penalising of almost any physical contact, Best would have been the equal of Messi and Ronaldo, and especially if he was playing in a team stuffed full of the best players in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Just now, AshtonGreat said: Best goalscorer can more or less be decided on stats alone. None of the above match Messi Well there we are then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 P.s. Ian Rush's record is surprisingly crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said: P.s. Ian Rush's record is surprisingly crap Well there we are then. Guess he’s out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, downendcity said: I don't think is so much a question of asking whether Messi would have survived back in Best's day, but more a question of asking how good Best would have been in the modern era. With modern training methods and the way players are looked after, Best's "lifestyle" would not probably have limited his career at the top the way it did in his day. Playing on modern manicure pitches, in perfect condition right through the season, wearing modern, light weight boots and with the protection now afforded skilful players by the modern interpretation of rules and penalising of almost any physical contact, Best would have been the equal of Messi and Ronaldo, and especially if he was playing in a team stuffed full of the best players in the world. I would totally argue the opposite. Had Best been an alcoholic in today's game, he'd have played in the Championship at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Current era - Messi Past era’s - Pele, followed by Johnan Cruyff Football has changed in many ways over the decades so comparing past greats with current greats is an impossible ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said: I would totally argue the opposite. Had Best been an alcoholic in today's game, he'd have played in the Championship at best Best was an alcoholic from his very first drink. Same had he been around today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Thats not my point though; my point is that he wouldnt have fared so well in the modern game as an alcoholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: I would totally argue the opposite. Had Best been an alcoholic in today's game, he'd have played in the Championship at best As I said earlier different days different cultures. If Messi had not been taken to Barcelona from Argentina as a kid and born in the 40s he may have been an alcoholic who knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, REDOXO said: And there in lies the rub. The best player or the best goal scorer? Which are we talking about? Pele certainly knew who the best player was! If you play up front with Dennis Law and Bobby Charlton you May not get as many. By the time Tommy Doc took over at Utd George was a hopeless alcoholic. So yes his career was cut short by disease but that’s a different subject. P.s. I need to pull you up on this. Pele has recently claimed that Neymar is better than Messi. Great footballer but clearly a terrible judge of football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, REDOXO said: As I said earlier different days different cultures. If Messi had not been taken to Barcelona from Argentina as a kid and born in the 40s he may have been an alcoholic who knows.... Can't argue with that RED. I've enjoyed the debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: P.s. I need to pull you up on this. Pele has recently claimed that Neymar is better than Messi. Great footballer but clearly a terrible judge of football But he didn’t say he was better than best. Pele is a terrible judge of a footballer. Yeah. Good night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 No mentions of Beckenbauer, Cruyff or Maradona. Charlton underrated too. Will always be subjective....different eras, pitches, countries, leagues etc. I always say a good player in one era would find a way to be a good player in another era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said: That ain’t comparing like for like - the state of pitches, interpretations of rules etc, have all changed. Messi wouldn’t have survived back in the day, yet Best would have absolutely thrived in today’s watered-down version of football ... Doesn’t have to be like for like. If he thinks Messi is the greatest ever then that’s what he thinks ... You’ve no idea how either player would do in a different era. Messi is the greatest of all time. We’re privileged to be able to watch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, David Brent said: Doesn’t have to be like for like. If he thinks Messi is the greatest ever then that’s what he thinks ... You’ve no idea how either player would do in a different era. Messi is the greatest of all time. We’re privileged to be able to watch him. I disagree - but respect your views... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Calculus said: Pele : 3 World Cups 77 goals in 92 appeatanxrs for Brazil. 650 goals in 694 for Santos and Cosmos. Love pele but a lot of his goals were in exhibition matches to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, REDOXO said: George Best was the greatest player of all time. Can you even imagine what he could of done in today’s football with Lovely pitches and semi-contact rules!? He would have struggled. He was unfit and unprofessional. Wouldn't have lasted 30 minutes in todays game. Todays games are 10x quicker, tactically far more advanced and defenders are better because of this. You simply do not see many mavericks at the top level these days. I will add that Pele has to be among the biggest enigmas in Football. I simply dont even include him in my top 50 players of all tome let alone number 1. He would score a goal down the park and count them, and similarly to George Best most of the goals I have seen from him have defenders just wondering around the pitch. Standards have improved, Pele wasn't even Brazil's best player in 1962 world cup, it was Garrincha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Pele. Seemingly every skill possible he performed in a game where intimidation and attempting to/injuring an opponent was the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBW Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 4 hours ago, REDOXO said: George Best was the greatest player of all time. Can you even imagine what he could of done in today’s football with Lovely pitches and semi-contact rules!? Was the best OF HIS time. I'm a firm believer in evolution. We have more knowledge on diet, exercise, analysis and every other area of sport than we ever did, to assume someone from 30+ years ago was better despite having none of these modern day advantages, PLUS not having the facilities and money available to help further their careers like we can now is ignorant and insulting to modern day players. All of them are more athletic, take better care of their bodies and so on, pure talent will only take you so far, after that you need more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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