Will Steve Lansdown go for it this summer?

[Lrrr]

57 minutes ago, RedM said:

I don’t think SL has ever really refused to back LJ, but LJ knows SL’s limits and hasn’t asked for what he knows he won’t get.

However it looks like LJ will have delivered what he was told to, to finish in a higher position than we did last season, after selling three first team regulars as we know. I think LJ will now go to SL and say he has secured decent loan players this season and recruited well.

If the remit next year is again to finish higher than this year ( I think we will be 7th or 8th this season) then LJ has every right to expect to bring in ready made quality, which probably means as big of an investment as we’ve ever made, which against many of the teams we count as rivals isn’t much. Saying that teams like Preston are only two wins behind us and have spent almost nothing I don’t think. 

I'm not sure we need huge investment, I don't think we'll spend more than £15m give or take, I just think our outgoings will be smaller this year and we'll bring in less players but of a higher standard.

[shelts]

Not a chance . We have a model and they will stick with it . Shame as where only a couple of class players away from top three 

[Pezo]

I can't see us changing our model that is giving results, what that model actually is following the purchase of Webster, Hunt, Watkins last season I'm not as sure as I once was. I assume its still players at a resellable age that are as high quality as possible for a price we can afford. 

[Robbored]

57 minutes ago, RedM said:

I don’t think SL has ever really refused to back LJ, but LJ knows SL’s limits and hasn’t asked for what he knows he won’t get.

However it looks like LJ will have delivered what he was told to, to finish in a higher position than we did last season, after selling three first team regulars as we know. I think LJ will now go to SL and say he has secured decent loan players this season and recruited well.

If the remit next year is again to finish higher than this year ( I think we will be 7th or 8th this season) then LJ has every right to expect to bring in ready made quality, which probably means as big of an investment as we’ve ever made, which against many of the teams we count as rivals isn’t much. Saying that teams like Preston are only two wins behind us and have spent almost nothing I don’t think. 

Excellent points RedM.............

SL puts heavy demands on his senior employees and expects them to implement his strategy and so far LJ has delivered....but surely SL knows that at some point LJ will have achieved all he can within said strategy and will need a war chest to strengthen in certain areas.

The issue won’t necessarily be the fee but the wages..........better quality players demand higher wages........and that can open a can of worms within any squad.

[Lez]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I don’t think SL has ever really refused to back LJ, but LJ knows SL’s limits and hasn’t asked for what he knows he won’t get.

However it looks like LJ will have delivered what he was told to, to finish in a higher position than we did last season, after selling three first team regulars as we know. I think LJ will now go to SL and say he has secured decent loan players this season and recruited well.

If the remit next year is again to finish higher than this year ( I think we will be 7th or 8th this season) then LJ has every right to expect to bring in ready made quality, which probably means as big of an investment as we’ve ever made, which against many of the teams we count as rivals isn’t much. Saying that teams like Preston are only two wins behind us and have spent almost nothing I don’t think. 

This is a good point.

SL said at beginning of season the aim is to improve the league position. I agree 7th or 8th is most likely, meaning we will have to invest in order to progress....especially with a new crop of teams going down and therefore more clubs in receipt of parachute payments.

A top quality striker to build on what we have plus a couple more would suffice....but it is needed without question.

[Eastendboy1965]

8 hours ago, Lez said:

We are clearly missing a creative CAM and an out and out proven striker....kodjia, assombalonga, Adams type footballer.

Will SL pay for proven quality? We progress every season and it's excellent to see.....but we do need that bit of quality that we are missing.

Will he sign proven championship quality? What are people's thoughts for this summer?

No Mate, he won't.

We are a selling club. A club like ...Villa for example are a forward thinking club -  Kodja,  Adomah, Abraham -  each of which used to wear our shirt ...

...Premier league under Lansdown ? that is doubtful, I am afraid. Much easier and safer for him to run as a Championship club, that's why we sell our best players during the summer.

Its a plaything, and its not his ambition to run a premier league club... and to have to deal with big agents and big fees. 

[Loosey Boy]

Can see him investing another £15-20m this summer but this time, on quality/proven players ie expect us to sign only three, possibly four players for this money

[KeepUpLino]

8 hours ago, Lez said:

We are clearly missing a creative CAM and an out and out proven striker....kodjia, assombalonga, Adams type footballer.

Will SL pay for proven quality? We progress every season and it's excellent to see.....but we do need that bit of quality that we are missing.

Will he sign proven championship quality? What are people's thoughts for this summer?

Will we ****... the reason I haven't

 renewed this season..... Happy to tread water IMO

[Lez]

2 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Can see him investing another £15-20m this summer but this time, on quality/proven players ie expect us to sign only three, possibly four players for this money

I would be happy with that 

[Lrrr]

16 minutes ago, Eastendboy1965 said:

No Mate, he won't.

We are a selling club. A club like ...Villa for example are a forward thinking club -  Kodja,  Adomah, Abraham -  each of which used to wear our shirt ...

...Premier league under Lansdown ? that is doubtful, I am afraid. Much easier and safer for him to run as a Championship club, that's why we sell our best players during the summer.

Its a plaything, and its not his ambition to run a premier league club... and to have to deal with big agents and big fees. 

Spend beyond your means in hope of making your way back to the promised land is forward thinking? If they don't go up this season they're apparently a good £20m down on what will be needed to meet FFP and will have to sell at least Grealish if not more. I would rather take our approach than theirs anytime.

[The Original OTIB]

9 hours ago, Lez said:

We are clearly missing a creative CAM and an out and out proven striker....kodjia, assombalonga, Adams type footballer.

Will SL pay for proven quality? We progress every season and it's excellent to see.....but we do need that bit of quality that we are missing.

Will he sign proven championship quality? What are people's thoughts for this summer?

No.

[ChippenhamRed]

51 minutes ago, Eastendboy1965 said:

No Mate, he won't.

We are a selling club. A club like ...Villa for example are a forward thinking club -  Kodja,  Adomah, Abraham -  each of which used to wear our shirt ...

...Premier league under Lansdown ? that is doubtful, I am afraid. Much easier and safer for him to run as a Championship club, that's why we sell our best players during the summer.

Its a plaything, and its not his ambition to run a premier league club... and to have to deal with big agents and big fees. 

Aston Villa, former League champions, former European Champions, biggest club in the country’s second biggest city, capable of averaging 40k+ plus in the top division....yet currently 5th in the Championship in their third consecutive season in the second tier and very nearly went into administration this season.

Is that where “forward thinking” gets you?

[ChippenhamRed]

8 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

All the loanees will go including Kalas, plus anyone else who will get a few bob in;

We will then re-build and "go again" we must also give them much time to gel and the xmas window will also be needed to fine tune things.

We will not bring in any championship quality for those positions that we have been desperate to fill for many seasons now; we will also no doubt go down the loan road and repeat over the coming seasons again and again, building for the future but knocking it down before we get anywhere.

This season again will show we lack the ambition to make a forward move when in a great position, just like last season.

I know many have hope still, but its not reality.

League One 12th

League One 1st

Championship 18th

Championship 17th

Championship 11th

Championship 7th

...And all while working with a moderate budget.

Let me know when you spot the trend. Is that the trajectory of a club “knocking it down before we get anywhere”?

The facts show that any “knocking down” we have done in the past six years has brought about an improvement in League position the following year.

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

League One 12th

League One 1st

Championship 18th

Championship 17th

Championship 11th

Championship 7th

...And all while working with a moderate budget.

Let me know when you spot the trend. Is that the trajectory of a club “knocking it down before we get anywhere”?

The facts show that any “knocking down” we have done in the past six years has brought about an improvement in League position the following year.

And then there comes the moment when you hit the ceiling and have to alter the plans or you go backwards. 

We are at that point in my opinion.

Fighting above your weight can only last so long before it finally gets too much and the walls come tumbling down.

 

[mozo]

7 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

League One 12th

League One 1st

Championship 18th

Championship 17th

Championship 11th

Championship 7th

...And all while working with a moderate budget.

Let me know when you spot the trend. Is that the trajectory of a club “knocking it down before we get anywhere”?

The facts show that any “knocking down” we have done in the past six years has brought about an improvement in League position the following year.

You've illustrated your point very well there. 

It does lead us however to the question of what is needed now to keep improving on that.

Lets say Kalas and DaSilva go elsewhere and Kelly and Semenyo get their transfers, what will be needed then?

[Bar BS3]

18 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

And then there comes the moment when you hit the ceiling and have to alter the plans or you go backwards. 

We are at that point in my opinion.

Fighting above your weight can only last so long before it finally gets too much and the walls come tumbling down.

 

I agree that that can definitely happen, but I can’t see how being 1 point off the play off places with a game in hand confirms that we have “hit our ceiling” just yet. 

[ScottishRed]

14 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

And then there comes the moment when you hit the ceiling and have to alter the plans or you go backwards. 

We are at that point in my opinion.

Fighting above your weight can only last so long before it finally gets too much and the walls come tumbling down.

 

Could not agree more Major.

I give the squad and coaches full credit this season, if we do fall short of the top 6 it has been a tremendous effort but the next step, if we need to make it, is the hardest and that requires investment and stability.

I have said previously if we just miss out on promotion I suspect our HC will be looking for that investment, should that not be forthcoming I suspect he will consider his options - it is going to be hugely difficult to deliver continuous improvement without investment.

I am not LJ’s biggest fan BUT, despite some crucial and potentially costly miscalculations, he HAS done well this season, that will have been noted elsewhere and he is hugely ambitious, and rightly so.

Whatever happens over the next few weeks it’s going to be a very interesting summer.

[JBFC II]

8 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

Will we ****... the reason I haven't

 renewed this season..... Happy to tread water IMO

Interesting, can I ask if you renewed last season when we finished lower than this season, or the year before when we again finished lower, or the year before when again we finished lower... 

If you aren't renewing after the 2nd best season in the clubs recent history then I really don't know what you're doing supporting us... 

[JBFC II]

8 hours ago, Eastendboy1965 said:

No Mate, he won't.

We are a selling club. A club like ...Villa for example are a forward thinking club -  Kodja,  Adomah, Abraham -  each of which used to wear our shirt ...

...Premier league under Lansdown ? that is doubtful, I am afraid. Much easier and safer for him to run as a Championship club, that's why we sell our best players during the summer.

Its a plaything, and its not his ambition to run a premier league club... and to have to deal with big agents and big fees. 

Aston villa a forward thinking club? The club that has spent over 100 million on transfer fees alone to fail to get out of the championship? 

As for Lansdown not wanting us to go up, I've never quite understood why people say that. It's complete rubbish

[Beni71]

I think Lansdown and the club will be more ambitious with its signings but it won’t break the bank. I think the stance SL is taking with FFP with other clubs/chairman will drive/dictate that. 

[mozo]

The thing for me is that we need a net improvement. If we sign three good players but lose our Chelsea loanees and another first team regular, then it's not an improvement. We need to have a stronger squad in spite of outgoings. 

[ChippenhamRed]

39 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

And then there comes the moment when you hit the ceiling and have to alter the plans or you go backwards. 

We are at that point in my opinion.

Fighting above your weight can only last so long before it finally gets too much and the walls come tumbling down.

 

 

22 minutes ago, mozo said:

You've illustrated your point very well there. 

It does lead us however to the question of what is needed now to keep improving on that.

Lets say Kalas and DaSilva go elsewhere and Kelly and Semenyo get their transfers, what will be needed then?

 

19 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I agree that that can definitely happen, but I can’t see how being 1 point off the play off places with a game in hand confirms that we have “hit our ceiling” just yet. 

Very fair comments here.

I agree that more substantial investment may well be needed to take us that step further, including a willingness to spend more on wages. But I also think that our incremental improvement over the past five years helps us in that aim. We are now seen as an established, top half Championship team with realistic play off prospects. That will surely enhance our ability to buy better players. That might not necessarily mean buying household names. But it may mean we can more frequently nab players like Webster; players with he potential to improve and make us good enough to get there. It also makes further high profile loans like Kalas even more likely.

But the main thrust of my argument is that the overtly negative outlook of @Bri Stool City does not fairly reflect the consistent progress we have made in recent years. In other words, he’s talking bollocks.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

 

 

Very fair comments here.

I agree that more substantial investment may well be needed to take us that step further, including a willingness to spend more on wages. But I also think that our incremental improvement over the past five years helps us in that aim. We are now seen as an established, top half Championship team with realistic play off prospects. That will surely enhance our ability to buy better players. That might not necessarily mean buying household names. But it may mean we can more frequently nab players like Webster; players with he potential to improve and make us good enough to get there. It also makes further high profile loans like Kalas even more likely.

But the main thrust of my argument is that the overtly negative outlook of @Bri Stool City does not fairly reflect the consistent progress we have made in recent years. In other words, he’s talking bollocks.

Consistent progress built on loans mainly, a cheap option that adds nothing to real progress at this club. Signings that are worth anything are quickly off loaded to other clubs who are after real progress and building squads to make a sustained challenge.

Please tell me though the names of the players that you think will still be here next season, those that we can build a promotion challenging team around?.

Maybe you are one of the few who really think we will be battling in the play offs in the coming weeks, even with our game advantage.

We lack a midfield general and a proven championship goalscorer, and cover in other positions, other teams in with a shout don't.

We wont be buying better players just hoping the loan market will see us through another season of hope and little else.

Talking bollocks maybe I am but its what I believe and SL will not be investing multi millions in our playing staff either, anytime soon, its not the plan.

[Notbarrymanc]

LJ is looking to recruit in 7 positions (GO CD LB RB DM CAM ST). 

 

They will have earmarked some gems that will go on to turn a profit in the long run. They will also fill some holes with loaners. However, the two positions they’ve tried and failed in recent times (GK ST) will require a more aggressive approach to ensure successful recruitment. SL knows all about aggressive recruitment.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised to see us in for an Assombalonga, I would be surprised if the likes of Assombalonga came to us, however, as we’re still perceived to be an unfashionable footballing backwater. 

[JBFC II]

8 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Consistent progress built on loans mainly, a cheap option that adds nothing to real progress at this club. Signings that are worth anything are quickly off loaded to other clubs who are after real progress and building squads to make a sustained challenge.

Please tell me though the names of the players that you think will still be here next season, those that we can build a promotion challenging team around?.

Maybe you are one of the few who really think we will be battling in the play offs in the coming weeks, even with our game advantage.

We lack a midfield general and a proven championship goalscorer, and cover in other positions, other teams in with a shout don't.

We wont be buying better players just hoping the loan market will see us through another season of hope and little else.

Talking bollocks maybe I am but its what I believe and SL will not be investing multi millions in our playing staff either, anytime soon, its not the plan.

The progress hasn't been built on loans, that's rubbish. Yes we've had some good loanees brought in, but that's all part of the progression and Dasilva, Palmer and kalas can all be bought for next season according to rumours on here. 

The second point is the same for every club in the country outside of the top 6, that's not unique to us. 

I'm confident we won't lose anyone this summer, although if we get any ridiculous offers we will have to sell, we aren't in a position to stop players playing higher level football.

The fact Weare in our position without a proven goalscorer and midfield general is surely a good thing? Shows how well LJ and his coaching staff have done to get us into this position in the first place. 

A bit like we didn't buy better players last summer? Or the summer before that? It's what the club does, sell our own players of for inflated fees and bring in players who are better. 

I hope SL doesn't take the aston villa/stoke route, which is what you seem to want. It won't get us anywhere good. This way of season on season progression is much better in the long run

[1960maaan]

Depends what you consider “going for it”

Spending £30m on 3 players , and holding what we’ve got ain’t going to happen. If we can hold onto DaSilva and Kalas (minimum £7m?) , then add a holding MF and a striker who has some sort of track record, while not selling any of our contracted players. You could consider that going for it, net spend of about £17m might be possible. FFP will come into it, as will the ambition/choices of players. COD looks likely to leave, Taylor? Pisano?Baker?FF? Plus a few others maybe. All impacts on what we need to bring in.

If we stick with a MF 3, we have a creative player on the books, Walsh is 2 footed, spots a pass and is always looking for runners. I think a ball winner is the missing piece in there, not sure we have a chance but aren’t we after the lad at Motherwell ? I do think a lot rests on Kalas and DaSilva’s decisions at the end of the year, a playoff spot might help that.

[ChippenhamRed]

46 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Consistent progress built on loans mainly, a cheap option that adds nothing to real progress at this club. Signings that are worth anything are quickly off loaded to other clubs who are after real progress and building squads to make a sustained challenge.

Please tell me though the names of the players that you think will still be here next season, those that we can build a promotion challenging team around?.

Maybe you are one of the few who really think we will be battling in the play offs in the coming weeks, even with our game advantage.

We lack a midfield general and a proven championship goalscorer, and cover in other positions, other teams in with a shout don't.

We wont be buying better players just hoping the loan market will see us through another season of hope and little else.

Talking bollocks maybe I am but its what I believe and SL will not be investing multi millions in our playing staff either, anytime soon, its not the plan.

Name one.

[Unan]

With a player like Gayle I think we’d be fighting for too 2. We could revert back to our solid 4 in defence & be strong enough upfront to actually score goals. Wether SL would actually ‘go for it’ though? Probably not.

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

Consistent progress built on loans mainly, a cheap option that adds nothing to real progress at this club. Signings that are worth anything are quickly off loaded to other clubs who are after real progress and building squads to make a sustained challenge.

Please tell me though the names of the players that you think will still be here next season, those that we can build a promotion challenging team around?.

Maybe you are one of the few who really think we will be battling in the play offs in the coming weeks, even with our game advantage.

We lack a midfield general and a proven championship goalscorer, and cover in other positions, other teams in with a shout don't.

We wont be buying better players just hoping the loan market will see us through another season of hope and little else.

Talking bollocks maybe I am but its what I believe and SL will not be investing multi millions in our playing staff either, anytime soon, its not the plan.

Even if the progress was built on loans you can't say there has been no real progress, the level of players we've signed permanently over the last few seasons has increased and again this summer I expect us to be able to attract better players again, if this has been supported by loan players then so be it.

Who have we signed who we've then quickly offloaded? Assume you'll say Kodjia but when a player refuses to play for you there aren't many options left other than let him rot out of the squad for a while so we decided to cash in on almost 5 times what we signed him for, no one would disagree it was good business for us.

We won't have to sell anyone in the summer, we won't be under any pressure from FFP thanks to last summer so if any of our better players were to leave it will be because we're getting a price we're happy with rather than being bullied into it. 

Why should we not be fighting for the play offs? It is still in our hands, its very defeatist and negative to say we won't be, not saying having an opinion that we won't do so is wrong but can't criticise others for believing.  

Don't disagree with the idea we need bolstering in the centre of the park, need a true ball winner and either fully back Walshy as the one to unlock a defence or need someone more experienced. As for striker, Diedhiou scored enough last season to be considered a proven goalscorer, a bit down on what we'd have wanted this season but given we've played 1 up top a lot this season and few rotation options its been tough on him. If Weimann had actually had his onside disallowed goals he'd be up around 15 for the season so the goals are there in the 2 of them, probably a third scoring option to allow rotation for fitness/tactical reasons is required though.

Can you tell me the lottery numbers as you seemingly know how we'll go about our summer business... while I think we will get a couple of loanees in, I don't think we'll be relying on them, as linked back to point 1 having loan players has helped boost us and the level of players we've signed on a permanent deals. Linking back to the point about not being tight on FFP this summer I think we could spend more, last summer we couldn't afford to spend much more with that risk of FFP. 

[TonyTonyTony]

Even if we miss out on the playoffs, I would imagine SL considering this season another year of progress. On that basis I assume he would think that his model is working and it will be more of the same.

Id probably do the same to be honest