Coombsy Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Swede said: The debt amounting is internal debt so doesn't affect the day-to-day running of the club, and my commitment to the club and its long-term aims remains as strong as ever. I think he's got that wrong. "Internal debt" IS the day to day running costs. I would say "external debt" (using his terminology) would be the UWE facility that the university agreed to proceed on, or new training ground he's building, or the various planning applications and studies he's carried out, or the re build of the memorial ground stand by stand he's currently undertaking. All of which are tied up in confidentiality agreements so unfortunately he can't talk about them. Their day to day running costs are completely unsustainable without continually propping up with new investment and he can't keep borrowing on the only asset they have which is the run down stadium. Pot and pi55 in comes to mind That’s why he don’t run a bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, BS2 Red said: £24m? That’s nothing to Wael, he does have an expensive watch you know. Hahahahaha, a £15,000 IWC. SL probably wears one of those when he’s grouting the bathroom. 1 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Swede said: The debt amounting is internal debt so doesn't affect the day-to-day running of the club, and my commitment to the club and its long-term aims remains as strong as ever. I think he's got that wrong. "Internal debt" IS the day to day running costs. I would say "external debt" (using his terminology) would be the UWE facility that the university agreed to proceed on, or new training ground he's building, or the various planning applications and studies he's carried out, or the re build of the memorial ground stand by stand he's currently undertaking. All of which are tied up in confidentiality agreements so unfortunately he can't talk about them. Their day to day running costs are completely unsustainable without continually propping up with new investment and he can't keep borrowing on the only asset they have which is the run down stadium. Pot and pi55 in comes to mind I think he means that the 'internal debt' is owed to himself so is not (hehehe) a problem. Even so, shaky use of language with someone whose family had supposedly made their money from banking. You'd think he'd be a little more financial savvy in his speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myol'man Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 Home to Rochdale today then, another massive crowd expected at the glorious Al-Qida Arena Should be pushing 6,000 if the rain stays off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old parkender Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said: Hahahahaha, a £15,000 IWC. SL probably wears one of those when he’s grouting the bathroom. That was another gas exaggeration as well, it was a Franck mueller black conquistador, approx £6k. Not like the gas to inflate numbers is it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 12 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Spot on - **** em - they tried to steal Ashton Gate from us when we were on our knees, and ever since they trot out the same old shite - “we’re the oldest league club in Bristol, we’ve been around since 1883, you’ve been around since 1982”... I always respond to that crap with stuff like: There has been a football club called Bristol Rovers FC since 1899 There has been a football club called Bristol City FC since 1897 Bristol Rovers FC joined the football league in 1920 Bristol City FC joined the football league in 1901 Bristol City FC has played continuously in the football league for the last 119 years Bristol Rovers FC has played continuously in the football league for the last 4 and a half years Bristol City FC has played at its current home for 116 years Bristol Rovers FC has played at its current home for 24 years ....they listen to all this and then just gawp, with gormless open mouths and nothing to add - because they can’t argue with any of it - they then just slowly turn away and slink off back to their mothers’ back bedrooms to think about the truth ... All true and conveniently ignored by Gasheads and, sadly not known by many City fans. The fact that we never actually went bankrupt is also omitted. A deal was agreed with the creditors for payments of 20pence in the pound, this was agreed with creditors and after payment of all agreed debts, the company was wound up. The registration of the club as a football league member never lapsed and as such we have ALWAYS been BCFC regardless of an admin change. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: I would read that statement differently and do think that he is correct to say that. If it was external debt then you have covenants to meet and security to put up. Banks can become like shadow directors requiring you to put business plans to them for them to approve or reject. Also if there is more financing required then it's going to come at a huge price for a company in financial difficulty as was seen with Nick Higgs' "Wonga" loans. As it is they can continue to spend on players and, hey, maybe even the ground without a bank saying "No". They do remain in full control of the company. All that you are saying about their instability applies x4 to us. We have a rich owner prepared to put money in to fund those losses. A loss of £4m a year is a lot to keep funding without radical cuts so just maybe they do as well. You hit the nail on the head. Without large investment and ultimately sustainable investment the majority of football league clubs would be in the same predicament. That is why our ground's had investment, that's why the training facility is being built, that's why there's plans for the arena and further developments to help to offset future investment in the Football/Rugby to make it more sustainable. In other words there's a massive difference between the two professional (in its broadist sense) football clubs of Bristol, and the gap is getting wider. In fact I would further go on to say that the more we progress both on and off the field only goes to further highlight those inadequacies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Swede said: You hit the nail on the head. Without large investment and ultimately sustainable investment the majority of football league clubs would be in the same predicament. That is why our ground's had investment, that's why the training facility is being built, that's why there's plans for the arena and further developments to help to offset future investment in the Football/Rugby to make it more sustainable. In other words there's a massive difference between the two professional (in its broadist sense) football clubs of Bristol, and the gap is getting wider. In fact I would further go on to say that the more we progress both on and off the field only goes to further highlight those inadequacies. I absolutely agree. However I detect a new tenor in the communication from Wael that gas fans seem to be missing. Following the death of their father this year the family wealth and control of same has been redistributed. Wael will be richer in his own right. I go along with the takeover being a land deal that went wrong but what Wael is now saying is that he's going to keep underwriting the losses and trying to improve it. Whether he has sufficiently deep pockets to keep losing £3m a year is another matter but for the short to medium term this looks to be the case. I'm surprised by the gloom and doom amongst the fewers tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Taz said: £24m and absolutely nothing to show for it. You could understand it if they had just finished building a new state of the art stadium, and were at the top end of the league fighting for the title - a bit like us putting the double winning team together by taking the best available players of the league. Shit ground, shit players, and their biggest prospect since £10m Matty Taylor (whatever happened to him btw?), has reverted back to type and stopped scoring goals. It's ok though, the nice man with a lovely watch says he's doing everything within his power to ensure the future of the club Exactly this. Many clubs with debt have invested in structure (stadium) and or team to create a basis on which to repay the debt. The others are heading the way of Bury. Which road do Rovers fans think they are heading down..?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 58 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: I absolutely agree. However I detect a new tenor in the communication from Wael that gas fans seem to be missing. Following the death of their father this year the family wealth and control of same has been redistributed. Wael will be richer in his own right. I go along with the takeover being a land deal that went wrong but what Wael is now saying is that he's going to keep underwriting the losses and trying to improve it. Whether he has sufficiently deep pockets to keep losing £3m a year is another matter but for the short to medium term this looks to be the case. I'm surprised by the gloom and doom amongst the fewers tbh. Perhaps Wael feels slightly bullish now that he's sailing alone. Problem is, as the saying in Texas goes, he's all hat and no cattle. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said: I absolutely agree. However I detect a new tenor in the communication from Wael that gas fans seem to be missing. Following the death of their father this year the family wealth and control of same has been redistributed. Wael will be richer in his own right. I go along with the takeover being a land deal that went wrong but what Wael is now saying is that he's going to keep underwriting the losses and trying to improve it. Whether he has sufficiently deep pockets to keep losing £3m a year is another matter but for the short to medium term this looks to be the case. I'm surprised by the gloom and doom amongst the fewers tbh. Reading all your upbeat missives on this thread, are you a closet sag apologist ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, slartibartfast said: Reading all your upbeat missives on this thread, are you a closet sag apologist ? No. I admit I don't share the active dislike but I have been very much taking the piss and was pointing out a few pages ago that the financial guarantee expired in May. Since they I have been wrong-footed by the accounts coming out early and the statement from Wael about carrying on as they are. That's a big change and instead of counting down to the point when the equity would be exhausted I now think that doesn't matter and they'll be fine for several years at least. That I recognise the change in their financial situation doesn't make me a closet gashead; piss-taking will now need to be confined to the state of their ground, that they have somehow appointed a PE teacher as manager, and that they are sliding down the league a rare of knots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said: Hahahahaha, a £15,000 IWC. SL probably wears one of those when he’s grouting the bathroom. I’m sure Steve has staff to carry out such duties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 29 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: No. I admit I don't share the active dislike but I have been very much taking the piss and was pointing out a few pages ago that the financial guarantee expired in May. Since they I have been wrong-footed by the accounts coming out early and the statement from Wael about carrying on as they are. That's a big change and instead of counting down to the point when the equity would be exhausted I now think that doesn't matter and they'll be fine for several years at least. That I recognise the change in their financial situation doesn't make me a closet gashead; piss-taking will now need to be confined to the state of their ground, that they have somehow appointed a PE teacher as manager, and that they are sliding down the league a rare of knots. So, are you of the opinion that he will carry on letting his own debts carry on building up against the value of the rugby ground? That is effectively what they are, interest charged for the purchase price and paying off the Wonga loan. However wealthy he is, he'll not want to actually dig into his own personal wealth to keep the club running, two years is after all £6m, has he got that much wealth? As it is, he can sell up and recoup his/the family initial investment and leave someone else to take over a club with no home and running up debts. It's finding someone willing to do that though, perhaps that's why they're cutting their cloth to suit and why no suitor has come forward as yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Rich said: So, are you of the opinion that he will carry on letting his own debts carry on building up against the value of the rugby ground? That is effectively what they are, interest charged for the purchase price and paying off the Wonga loan. However wealthy he is, he'll not want to actually dig into his own personal wealth to keep the club running, two years is after all £6m, has he got that much wealth? As it is, he can sell up and recoup his/the family initial investment and leave someone else to take over a club with no home and running up debts. It's finding someone willing to do that though, perhaps that's why they're cutting their cloth to suit and why no suitor has come forward as yet. That's exactly what the Lansdowns are doing, Rovers fans reckon he has £100m but who knows. I would guess the aim is to get the club into a good position and sell; though maybe it's a long term hold. If it was me I'd be getting out rather than adding to a debt that can't be recovered as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: That's exactly what the Lansdowns are doing, Rovers fans reckon he has £100m but who knows. I would guess the aim is to get the club into a good position and sell; though maybe it's a long term hold. If it was me I'd be getting out rather than adding to a debt that can't be recovered as you suggest. Yes, but spunking 24million of a 100million fortune (questionable) is far more concerning than INVESTING 200million of a near 2Billion fortune..! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: That's exactly what the Lansdowns are doing, Rovers fans reckon he has £100m but who knows. I would guess the aim is to get the club into a good position and sell; though maybe it's a long term hold. If it was me I'd be getting out rather than adding to a debt that can't be recovered as you suggest. Lansdown's are investing in a much bigger scheme, encompassing a whole variety of sports. Wael wouldn't have the wealth to even build a stadium and training ground, let alone any of the other plans. I reckon he's out of here as soon as he can reduce debts on the playing side and find someone to take over the club. They'll end up renting/sharing somewhere (don't let them in) and he'll move the stadium on to cover the initial investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miah Dennehy Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? Bit early to start drinking paint stripper isn't it? 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miah Dennehy Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: Bit early to start drinking paint stripper isn't it? 3 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: Bit early to start drinking paint stripper isn't it? I've a spare case if you need some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? If and its a big If , if Rovers did go bust and City survived , couldn't see any reason why the two clubs would merge , how could you merge with something they don't exist. Why we would change are name etc , fantasy to think that would happen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? It does seem incredibly far fetched. Football clubs have survived two world wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? I'm of the belief that until we have only one league club in this city, the chances of true success for any club are diminished. How that is achieved is the question. Rovers currently have little if anything to bring to the table as far as negotiations for a partnership go. So, all they have is a customer base, if the Lansdown's could encompass that into BS, then I think they would and I wouldn't be averse to it. They will have blue in our kit soon enough anyway, as part of the overall BS brand, in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miah Dennehy Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, bs3 said: If and its a big If , if Rovers did go bust and City survived , couldn't see any reason why the two clubs would merge , how could you merge with something they don't exist. Why we would change are name etc , fantasy to think that would happen. There is no reason, it was a hypothetical question, and Lansdown would be acting purely out of a desire to reunite people. 2 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: It does seem incredibly far fetched. Football clubs have survived two world wars. True, but like I said, it was purely hypothetical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, Rich said: Lansdown's are investing in a much bigger scheme, encompassing a whole variety of sports. Wael wouldn't have the wealth to even build a stadium and training ground, let alone any of the other plans. I reckon he's out of here as soon as he can reduce debts on the playing side and find someone to take over the club. They'll end up renting/sharing somewhere (don't let them in) and he'll move the stadium on to cover the initial investment. Maybe that's more likely. I had them flagged for selling off the ground to recoup their money by this point and then selling what was left of the club on eBay so I've been proven wrong on that score. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 35 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? Stay safe Miah. I know this self isolating can cause people to go a bit mad . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: There is no reason, it was a hypothetical question, and Lansdown would be acting purely out of a desire to reunite people. True, but like I said, it was purely hypothetical. Yes I understand what you are saying but I just see in any circumstance this would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 41 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said: IF, and although this is obviously hypothetical it suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched, football & society is devastated by this virus, with thousands of deaths and dozens of clubs Rovers being one of them, go to the wall. If then City survive and the league is reformed into a much smaller number of clubs, what would you think if Lansdown announced a proposal to merge the clubs, call them Bristol United , play in red and blue etc, and he is doing it purely as a gesture to bring people together after a catastrophic period of history, what would you think? I'm not trying to be flippant about the current awful situation and I really don't think the outcome will be as bad as the picture I have painted, but I am really interested in genuine answers. There has been a lot of talk that this virus could bring everyone together and that we will all learn a lesson from this in many other areas of life, but would this be a step too far for you? No no and no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: I absolutely agree. However I detect a new tenor in the communication from Wael that gas fans seem to be missing. Following the death of their father this year the family wealth and control of same has been redistributed. Wael will be richer in his own right. I go along with the takeover being a land deal that went wrong but what Wael is now saying is that he's going to keep underwriting the losses and trying to improve it. Whether he has sufficiently deep pockets to keep losing £3m a year is another matter but for the short to medium term this looks to be the case. I'm surprised by the gloom and doom amongst the fewers tbh. 47 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Yes, but spunking 24million of a 100million fortune (questionable) is far more concerning than INVESTING 200million of a near 2Billion fortune..! I think BBS3 has got the right end of the stick Eddie, the few sensible gasheads can see that if he is paying in £3m a year to maintain the club, it doesn't leave much room for any investment, let alone that required to make them competitive in Bristol or anywhere else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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