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hodge

Bolton Wanderers (Merged)

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2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

With games against Forest and Brentford it really doesnt matter too much if both are awarded walkover 3-0 wins.

If their results were cancelled it'd knock 6 off Boro, 4 off us and 3 off Derby so the latter would be laughing.

 

Just now, Malago said:

Their two remaining games are Brentford H,  Forest A.  Both meaningless wrt to promotion/relegation.  My guess is if they are unfulfilled , the EFL award 3-0 victories to Brentford and Forest.

Yeah, I can't see that the EFL would disrupt the play-off race by cancelling the 44 games that have been actually played, for the sake of 2 games.

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Interestingly, should Bolton's players go ahead with their threat and the Club's results be expunged, City would lose 4 points, Middlebrough 6, but Derby only 3.

Assuming we beat Derby on Saturday, this could actually work in our favour....

Of course, far more likely is that the problem will be resolved before kick-off tomorrow, but.... 

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7 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Villa would lose 6 points as well, would put them right back amongst it. Can’t see it happening though. 

Nor me, as said above their two remaining games are inconsequential.

Cant blame the players they are almost due this months wages never mind March!

You can be sure that they are far from the only creditors.

 

Edited by ScottishRed

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If we finished ahead of Derby in a play off position by goal difference alone , how long would it take for them to insist on all Bolton's results being declared null and void if the last two games are awarded as 3-0 wins without being played

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There is no way the FA will start taking points off of other clubs in regards to results against Bolton this season. That would be chaotic, nonsensical and asking for trouble

Hold on, it's the F.A.

Edited by AppyDAZE
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2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

There is no way the FA will start taking points off of other clubs in regards to results against Bolton this season. That would be chaotic, nonsensical and asking for trouble

Hold on, it's the F.A.

No. No it's not! 

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2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

There is no way the FA will start taking points off of other clubs in regards to results against Bolton this season. That would be chaotic, nonsensical and asking for trouble

Hold on, it's the F.A.

You could put Mr. Bean in charge and get more rational decisions than the FA.

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3 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

There is no way the FA will start taking points off of other clubs in regards to results against Bolton this season. That would be chaotic, nonsensical and asking for trouble

Hold on, it's the F.A.

The FA " Hold my beer "

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3 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

There is no way the FA will start taking points off of other clubs in regards to results against Bolton this season. That would be chaotic, nonsensical and asking for trouble

Hold on, it's the F.A.

Well they wouldn’t if their favoured teams would lose out. Now if we were top or some other unfancied team it would of course be different

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

So what's likely to happen here?

My guess is Bailey Wright gets a ban and Aston Villa get a penalty.

and our Fammay ?

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2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

and our Fammay ?

Depends on whether Harlee Dean writes a letter detailing his latest hallucinations or not.

If he does then of course Fammy gets banned.

"Deer EFL

I sawed Famara Jayjoo lick da envylope wiv the Bolton players monee"

 

6 game ban incoming.

Edited by JamesBCFC
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21 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I wonder what the rule book says... 

I'll wager it isn't online, just so the FA can do what they fancy.

In the event that a club does not fulfill its fixtures any points gained by Bristol City against this club will be deducted and Aston Villa and Leeds Utd will be promoted automatically.

 

Hardly seems fair but thems the rules .

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7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

In the event that a club does not fulfill its fixtures any points gained by Bristol City against this club will be deducted and Aston Villa and Leeds Utd will be promoted automatically.

 

Hardly seems fair but thems the rules .

With Diedhou and Wright to be banned until 2022

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1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

With games against Forest and Brentford it really doesnt matter too much if both are awarded walkover 3-0 wins.

If their results were cancelled it'd knock 6 off Boro, 4 off us and 3 off Derby so the latter would be laughing.

Not after we beat them tomo....

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55 minutes ago, Super said:

Good on them. None of us would work if we weren't getting paid.

True, but how would players feel if owners were allow to deduct part of their wages when they played shite or played like they couldn't be bothered?

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Too much of the season has past for the results to be expunged,

as the games nether effect promotion or relegation then forest and Brentford will be awarded 3-0 wins,

further ramifications would happen next season and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the efl withholding Bolton’s golden share unless they can prove they can fulfil the fixture list next season meaning them not taking their place in league 1,

  

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1 minute ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Doesn’t league position determine how much prize money you get end of season. Some clubs may not be happy losing out on money due to walkovers.

Yes, I’ve been wondering that too.

I read the EFL regulations recently, and I couldn’t find anything about expunging results, nor awarding games to opponents.  All it talked about was fines, and that game should be re-arranged as soon as possible.

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Struggle to see Bolton continuing to exist as a football club, shocking to think how poorly they must've been managed since their PL days.

Sad times for the Bolton fans.

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, I’ve been wondering that too.

I read the EFL regulations recently, and I couldn’t find anything about expunging results, nor awarding games to opponents.  All it talked about was fines, and that game should be re-arranged as soon as possible.

Section 91 of the EFL rules would be the one that covers it I assume, but there is no definitive penalty set out, it would depend on the outcome of a disciplinary panel.

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21 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Doesn’t league position determine how much prize money you get end of season. Some clubs may not be happy losing out on money due to walkovers.

Playing Bolton is a walkover these days anyway

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1 hour ago, Super said:

Good on them. None of us would work if we weren't getting paid.

A normal person in this position would have to carry on working or be in breach of contract, they would be considered as quit. At least that's how I understand it, you have to be available to work even if you're not getting paid. Footballers just look on it as a free transfer, they would probably be able to claim lost earnings back too. 

15 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Doesn’t league position determine how much prize money you get end of season. Some clubs may not be happy losing out on money due to walkovers.

I'm pretty sure teams undertake a contract to guarantee they can afford to make it to the end of the season , they would be in breach. I would expect administration . Then I would think the EFL would pay the wages,  this would allow the season to finish naturally ,  and being 'football debt' it was usually first to be paid. This may have changed now, as I know there were murmurings that it wasn't fair . 
M'boro were docked 3 points and fined £50,000 for the game they didn't fulfil , that was 1997. The points are meaningless to Bolton, that said so is the money as they don't have any. The take over has been imminent for weeks, the whole thing is a mess and I would expect severe  sanctions against them if they do manage to stay alive.

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9 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

A normal person in this position would have to carry on working or be in breach of contract, they would be considered as quit. At least that's how I understand it, you have to be available to work even if you're not getting paid. Footballers just look on it as a free transfer, they would probably be able to claim lost earnings back too. 

I'm pretty sure teams undertake a contract to guarantee they can afford to make it to the end of the season , they would be in breach. I would expect administration . Then I would think the EFL would pay the wages,  this would allow the season to finish naturally ,  and being 'football debt' it was usually first to be paid. This may have changed now, as I know there were murmurings that it wasn't fair . 
M'boro were docked 3 points and fined £50,000 for the game they didn't fulfil , that was 1997. The points are meaningless to Bolton, that said so is the money as they don't have any. The take over has been imminent for weeks, the whole thing is a mess and I would expect severe  sanctions against them if they do manage to stay alive.

I expect them to be liquidated and starting again at the bottom

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13 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

A normal person in this position would have to carry on working or be in breach of contract, they would be considered as quit. At least that's how I understand it, you have to be available to work even if you're not getting paid. Footballers just look on it as a free transfer, they would probably be able to claim lost earnings back too. 

I'm pretty sure teams undertake a contract to guarantee they can afford to make it to the end of the season , they would be in breach. I would expect administration . Then I would think the EFL would pay the wages,  this would allow the season to finish naturally ,  and being 'football debt' it was usually first to be paid. This may have changed now, as I know there were murmurings that it wasn't fair . 
M'boro were docked 3 points and fined £50,000 for the game they didn't fulfil , that was 1997. The points are meaningless to Bolton, that said so is the money as they don't have any. The take over has been imminent for weeks, the whole thing is a mess and I would expect severe  sanctions against them if they do manage to stay alive.

Not exactly sure where the law sits currently but the difference, that is crucial, is that all players are on fixed term employment contracts where as most people that are employed have an employment contract that does not have a fixed term.

The rules around where you stand if not being paid are different - at least, they used to be.

Edited by ScottishRed

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I expect them to be liquidated and starting again at the bottom

That would be massive, usually you would have expected someone to have stepped up by now, not looking good though.

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11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

A normal person in this position would have to carry on working or be in breach of contract, they would be considered as quit. At least that's how I understand it, you have to be available to work even if you're not getting paid. Footballers just look on it as a free transfer, they would probably be able to claim lost earnings back too. 

I'm pretty sure teams undertake a contract to guarantee they can afford to make it to the end of the season , they would be in breach. I would expect administration . Then I would think the EFL would pay the wages,  this would allow the season to finish naturally ,  and being 'football debt' it was usually first to be paid. This may have changed now, as I know there were murmurings that it wasn't fair . 
M'boro were docked 3 points and fined £50,000 for the game they didn't fulfil , that was 1997. The points are meaningless to Bolton, that said so is the money as they don't have any. The take over has been imminent for weeks, the whole thing is a mess and I would expect severe  sanctions against them if they do manage to stay alive.

Many of the players contracts (Including Mark Little) expire in June. I think the EFL will pick up the wages for the rest of the season (they've probably got insurance to cover this) so games will be played. Neither Forest or Brentford can be promoted/relegated so actual timing of games other than before end of season isnt significant. 

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3 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Not exactly sure where the law sits currently but the difference, that is crucial, is that all players are on fixed term employment contracts where as most people that are employed have an employment contract that does not have a fixed term.

The rules around where you stand if not being paid are different - at least, they used to be.

Not 100% sure, but I think if a player doesn't get paid for a month they are allowed to look for another team, not sure how they stand with unpaid wages though. In the normal walk of life I've known a few people who have had to work when not being paid, it's a horrible situation.

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1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Not 100% sure, but I think if a player doesn't get paid for a month they are allowed to look for another team, not sure how they stand with unpaid wages though. In the normal walk of life I've known a few people who have had to work when not being paid, it's a horrible situation.

I think you are right regarding the 1 month thing.

Re ‘normal’ jobs I dont know.

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3 minutes ago, Redandwhitescarf said:

Many of the players contracts (Including Mark Little) expire in June. I think the EFL will pick up the wages for the rest of the season (they've probably got insurance to cover this) so games will be played. Neither Forest or Brentford can be promoted/relegated so actual timing of games other than before end of season isnt significant. 

The EFL must be glad the fixture fell like that, bad as the situation is , it would have been a nightmare if they played teams involved at the top or bottom of the League.  Though I expect they would want them played as scheduled .

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it has happened in the non league world. Weymouth were not paying the players wages, the players went on strike , and the club put out the youth team to fulfill the fixture, which they duely lost 9-0 (i think). A number of their fans who knew this was going to happen did quite well at the bookies, apparently

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52 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

it has happened in the non league world. Weymouth were not paying the players wages, the players went on strike , and the club put out the youth team to fulfill the fixture, which they duely lost 9-0 (i think). A number of their fans who knew this was going to happen did quite well at the bookies, apparently

Yep i remember this!

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2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Struggle to see Bolton continuing to exist as a football club, shocking to think how poorly they must've been managed since their PL days.

Sad times for the Bolton fans.

SINCE their PL days?

I've read that in only 1 of their 11 years in the premier league did they make a profit. 

43 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Meanwhile, in North Bristol, Wael will be eyeing a potentially vacant football stadium and wondering how Bolton North Bristol Rovers will be received by the blue few. 

 

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1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Playing Bolton is a walkover these days anyway

Unless they are playing us at Ashton Gate.

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2 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

True, but how would players feel if owners were allow to deduct part of their wages when they played shite or played like they couldn't be bothered?

They do, it’s called not getting their win bonus.

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3 hours ago, Super said:

Good on them. None of us would work if we weren't getting paid.

I do two unpaid voluntary jobs .....😀

(totally get what you mean though - thought I’d add that before those who think it’s soooo important to point out pendantry jump all over this....again!)

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3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

A normal person in this position would have to carry on working or be in breach of contract, they would be considered as quit. At least that's how I understand it, you have to be available to work even if you're not getting paid. Footballers just look on it as a free transfer, they would probably be able to claim lost earnings back too. 

I'm pretty sure teams undertake a contract to guarantee they can afford to make it to the end of the season , they would be in breach. I would expect administration . Then I would think the EFL would pay the wages,  this would allow the season to finish naturally ,  and being 'football debt' it was usually first to be paid. This may have changed now, as I know there were murmurings that it wasn't fair . 
M'boro were docked 3 points and fined £50,000 for the game they didn't fulfil , that was 1997. The points are meaningless to Bolton, that said so is the money as they don't have any. The take over has been imminent for weeks, the whole thing is a mess and I would expect severe  sanctions against them if they do manage to stay alive.

There’s a very strong argument for constructive dismissal when you’ve not been paid. The players and their agents will undoubtedly have been well advised already. 

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In all my years following football as an old git never seen this before !

 Got to be the end of Bolton, and one of the famous names in the game in days gone bye.  Wonder if they would have done this if a 'meaningful fixture' 

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