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Bolton Wanderers (Merged)

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2 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Perhaps its time to stop parachute payments and realistic wages to be paid, with draconian punishments meted out to clubs who don't follow sensible management practices.

Wages are the key issue.

The TV money has had an affect at all levels on these. The fact that some players in the Championship are on £60k per week beggars belief.

There needs to come a time when wages are linked to genuine turnover and cannot exceed a certain percentage, it is madness that clubs have a higher wages bill than turnover, never mind the other costs they incur.

With the exception of 'tech' start-ups no other business would operate that way if they wished to be sustainable.

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On 29/04/2019 at 11:02, wayne allisons tongues said:

Easter Saturday, Easter Monday is ok normally for pros each year.

That's more than 48 hours

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On 29/04/2019 at 11:50, Sir Geoff said:

Don't forget the odd 'double fixture' on an evening after work 2 games of 60 minutes.

Luckily not had to do that myself but have seen it happen!

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10 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Perhaps its time to stop parachute payments and realistic wages to be paid, with draconian punishments meted out to clubs who don't follow sensible management practices.

I think phasing out of parachute payments as opposed so a sudden hard stop perhaps- the problem is the TV gap between the PL and Championship- if you suddenly remove parachute payments then TV income falls about 93% in a year...no easy answers.

However second bit I completely agree. In Germany they have or more likely had, a licensing system. I'd adopt elements of this- maybe a requirement to break even except for good investment that benefits the club medium to long run, combined with an obligation to ring fence assets e.g. stadia, training facilities, academy from bent owners. Unsure how that 2nd bit would fit legally, whether it'd be feasible- but apart from that 'good' investment, income must match expenditure exactly- or no license to play for the season!

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59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The main reason Bolton are in a mess is cash-flow, so far as I can see.

Blackburn are in a better position yes they have done some decent restructuring but the Venkys for all the flak, ultimately cover the shortfall...but any club that posts a loss will always be vulnerable to this- if tomorrow e.g. SL decided not a penny more for us, we would be in a stack of trouble except for firesales to fend it off sooner rather than later.

By definition all clubs that post losses- which is basically the bulk of them- are dependent to varying degrees on owners underwriting losses- thee is even a small chance that Bolton posted a small profit due to player sales last season- I get the narrative that it is a legacy of their overspending days and certainly the grossest of mismanagement but this was written off in 2016 or 2017, all the debt to the old owners.

Quick comparison.

Bolton in their League One promotion season lost £12.9 as an operating loss (before player sales etc- that apparently took it down to £4.5m).

Blackburn, the much better run? In their League One promotion season, they lost £16.7m as an operating loss before player sales etc...credit to Kieran Maguire for this excellent graph- these losses will almost certainly increase when Bolton and Sheffield Wednesday finally produces their accounts.

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Just look at that- if not for wealthy or even moderately wealthy owners, most clubs would be absolutely ******!!

Thanks for this Mr P.  Those graphs are almost as worrying as when Attenborough tells us what mankind is doing to the planet i.e. it is unsustainable.

Even a non-accountant layman can see that that progression will surely result in clubs going bust, and that this is exactly what ffp was designed to avoid. The problem is that the carrot at the end of the stick, i.e. promotion to the prem, is such a financial enticement that owners/clubs seem prepared to risk everything to attain that goal. The consequences of failing ( or falling out of the prem as in Bolton's case) can, and will be, catastrophic and more so than ever before, given the huge amounts of money now involved.

If ffp was meant to deter clubs from reckless financial management and control, then why is the EFL so very weak in applying their own rules and penalties?

If, as so many suspect, Villa and Derby have "manipulated" their figures to avoid ffp sanction the they are potentially endangering their clubs' futures if they fail to gain promotion, yet the EFL appear unable and/or unwilling to "take on" these big clubs for fear of the potential consequences. When a club gets in the mire as a result of similar profligacy, as in Bolton's case, will the EFL be on hand to help and pick up the pieces? I think not!

This season was the opportunity for the EFL to demonstrate that risking a club's future in the quest for the "promised land" would no longer be tolerated. However, despite having new rules, and penalties to achieve that deterrent, they appear to have failed abjectly to do so, for which they should be completely ashamed on behalf of every club that in the future is put at risk through financial recklessness.

Bearing in mind the losses that Steve Lansdown is covering every season, we should be grateful that he has the strength of will to resist the urge to "throw everything at promotion" , as many fans seem to want, being more concerned with sustained improvement and preserving the club's future. If financial chickens come home to roost with a few other clubs his strategy may soon be proven to be the right one. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Thanks for this Mr P.  Those graphs are almost as worrying as when Attenborough tells us what mankind is doing to the planet i.e. it is unsustainable.

Even a non-accountant layman can see that that progression will surely result in clubs going bust, and that this is exactly what ffp was designed to avoid. The problem is that the carrot at the end of the stick, i.e. promotion to the prem, is such a financial enticement that owners/clubs seem prepared to risk everything to attain that goal. The consequences of failing ( or falling out of the prem as in Bolton's case) can, and will be, catastrophic and more so than ever before, given the huge amounts of money now involved.

 If ffp was meant to deter clubs from reckless financial management and control, then why is the EFL so very weak in applying their own rules and penalties?

 If, as so many suspect, Villa and Derby have "manipulated" their figures to avoid ffp sanction the they are potentially endangering their clubs' futures if they fail to gain promotion, yet the EFL appear unable and/or unwilling to "take on" these big clubs for fear of the potential consequences. When a club gets in the mire as a result of similar profligacy, as in Bolton's case, will the EFL be on hand to help and pick up the pieces? I think not!

This season was the opportunity for the EFL to demonstrate that risking a club's future in the quest for the "promised land" would no longer be tolerated. However, despite having new rules, and penalties to achieve that deterrent, they appear to have failed abjectly to do so, for which they should be completely ashamed on behalf of every club that in the future is put at risk through financial recklessness.

 Bearing in mind the losses that Steve Lansdown is covering every season, we should be grateful that he has the strength of will to resist the urge to "throw everything at promotion" , as many fans seem to want, being more concerned with sustained improvement and preserving the club's future. If financial chickens come home to roost with a few other clubs his strategy may soon be proven to be the right one. 

  

 

It's Kieran Maguire to thank ultimately but yes- unsustainable is the word!

My hope is that pressure from other clubs who are making efforts at least will see penalties applied next season- it should have been this but we know how weak and incompetent the EFL can be, perhaps is their default setting.

The interesting thing with Bolton though is that they had their historic debt written off- now while no good for FFP what they then needed was to live within their means for a while- i.e. balance expenditure and income basically exactly. They may even have done that last season- but Ken Anderson seems clueless at best and that's being very kind...think it's a lot more than cluelessness- 'Rogue Owner'- he makes the Oystons look halfway responsible because Blackpool never went bust under them.

Mel Morris a Derby fan so I think it's safer in his hands, Aston Villa no clue about their motives or security of funding- but putting solvency and security of funding aside, absolutely punishments should be applied in full. Thinking Derby are just about compliant or right on the edge of FFP even without the artificial £40m profit but Aston Villa...

I agree that with that, with SL, the solvency of the club is rightly the most important thing. The security of the club- but at the same time, some flexibility should be built in. Some little tweaks in fees, fees a bit higher- i.e. a £10m instead of a £5m or wage structure broken a bit- if of course he is happy to fund it, we must not forget that like the bulk of clubs we post operating losses.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/may/a-note-from-from-the-chairman/

When Dean Holdsworth and l first got involved with the club three years ago, l recall the late Eddie Davies telling me that ‘he had over 50 expressions of interest, mostly from dreamers and tyre kickers, who had indeed wasted a great deal of everyone’s time.’

Unfortunately, three years on and nothing seems to have changed.

Mr Bassini has failed to provide any adequate and acceptable proof of current and future funding to the EFL, the other secured creditors or me despite him keep telling the media, and anyone else that listens, that he has the ability to perform since early March when first discussions were held with him and his advisors.

His failure to perform has actually caused far greater hardship to the staff than would have occurred if he had not given undertakings he clearly cannot honour. For this I am deeply sorry and offer my apologies to the hard working staff of both the football club and Whites Hotel.

It is very disappointing that despite all of this he continues to make false accusations and promises, which are very misleading.

The question I have been asked is why, given the numerous warnings, I entertained an approach from Mr Bassini, in hindsight this has proved a mistake. However, at the time the only alternative was to place the business in to administration, I felt giving him the opportunity to complete the deal was worth the risk of delaying this process by a few days, which unfortunately became weeks. 

I really had no idea that the club, my family and myself would be dragged through the media in such tawdry manner, whilst Mr Bassini seems to show no regard for his own reputation. His continued inaccurate outbursts to anyone that waves a microphone at him have been both damaging and in the most wholly inaccurate.

Mr Bassini, regrettably his continued time wasting and empty promises have caused a great deal of heartache and frustration for the staff and supporters alike and now leave the Eddie Davies Trust and I with little or no choice other than for one of us to place the businesses into administration, as any likelihood of finding any resolution the High Court hearing not possible.

This had been a massive disappointment to me as I understand the serious implications administration will bring to the businesses. But I have been left with no alternative, as this course of action will preserve the football club and all of its proud history.

I would like to thank all my colleagues at Bolton Wanderers and Bolton Whites for all their hard work during my tenure as Chairman and owner. Whilst it is easy to focus on the negatives, the positives will leave me with some fond memories. I wish nothing but the very best for everybody connected with this football club and I have no doubt whatsoever that this great football club will once again stand shoulder to shoulder with the giants of the game.

Ken

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2 hours ago, Loon plage said:

Perhaps its time to stop parachute payments and realistic wages to be paid, with draconian punishments meted out to clubs who don't follow sensible management practices.

A flock of Gloucester Old Spots has just flown over my house.

 

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Adjournment for the court hearing now until May 22nd. 

Slight bit of good news but they're going to need to speed things up in terms of a new investor, unless the ex-Watford owner does eventually get granted access to the club.

-12 points deduction for next season as well.

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1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

Wages are the key issue.

The TV money has had an affect at all levels on these. The fact that some players in the Championship are on £60k per week beggars belief.

There needs to come a time when wages are linked to genuine turnover and cannot exceed a certain percentage, it is madness that clubs have a higher wages bill than turnover, never mind the other costs they incur.

With the exception of 'tech' start-ups no other business would operate that way if they wished to be sustainable.

This is the case in the Premier League. The short-term cost control area of PL FFP covers this and wage costs can only increase by £7m per year, unless you can support the increase by the companies own source of revenue. This is why there has been an increased focus on commercial deals over the last few years and you see 'official watch partners' and shirt sleeve sponsors. The rules are due to end soon but this is something that could definitely be considered in the Championship. My only fear is that if you get a team such as Burton come up with a small ground and little corporate/commercial opportunities, they'd struggle to develop and be of Championship quality. Conversely, I guess that is what the rules are trying to cover to make it more sustainable. 

The video below covers it in detail:

 

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4 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

Adjournment for the court hearing now until May 22nd. 

Slight bit of good news but they're going to need to speed things up in terms of a new investor, unless the ex-Watford owner does eventually get granted access to the club.

-12 points deduction for next season as well.

I would imagine a twelve point deduction over no club is the preferred option.

What I find strange in all this (and having a look at the Bolton forum), there hasn't been the level of panic you would expect from their fans.

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I would imagine a twelve point deduction over no club is the preferred option.

What I find strange in all this (and having a look at the Bolton forum), there hasn't been the level of panic you would expect from their fans.

If you read the replies to Marc Iles' tweets you'll see some panic, I don't think anyone really knows what's going on yet. All a bit bizarre, I wonder what Zach Clough's dad makes of all of this...

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2 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

If you read the replies to Marc Iles' tweets you'll see some panic, I don't think anyone really knows what's going on yet. All a bit bizarre, I wonder what Zach Clough's dad makes of all of this...

Where does his boy play these days?

I'll guess Liverpool, but only because he was far too good for us.

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21 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Where does his boy play these days?

I'll guess Liverpool, but only because he was far too good for us.

You're not far off.

He occasionally gets off the bench for Rochdale. He has less league starts than our very own Rory Holden who's on loan there - worked out quite funnily hasn't it.

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5 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

You're not far off.

He occasionally gets off the bench for Bolton. He has less league starts than our very own Rory Holden who's on loan there - worked out quite funnily hasn't it.

Don't you mean Rochdale? Not being pendantic - just want to highlight how far he has fallen!

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2 minutes ago, Coppello said:

Don't you mean Rochdale? Not being pendantic - just want to highlight how far he has fallen!

Well I am sure Daddy is very proud anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Coppello said:

Don't you mean Rochdale? Not being pendantic - just want to highlight how far he has fallen!

I do mate yes, not pedantic at all that's a clear error :laugh:

Glad I mentioned Holden in the same post otherwise would've looked a right muppet.

7 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Well I am sure Daddy is very proud anyway.

He's not so chirpy on Twitter anymore you'll be surprised to hear, neither is his girlfriend by the looks of things... :laugh:

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all this talk about the EFL not wanting to take on clubs is a bit of a mute point when only this season they deducted birmingham ( a pretty big club in the grand history of it all) 9 points for disregarding the new rules,

Just remember the new rules haven't been in place for long,  just because we haven't seen results right away (birmingham aside) doesn't mean we won't see results,

If Villa win the play-offs and its proved they breached FFP can't the EFL overturn their promotion?, I'm sure I read that somewhere

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They must have well and truly screwed it up- well it goes without saying- but as this old article shows, from 2006 their infrastructure off pitch is and was really quite decent. It's not like they were a Portsmouth with PL money, a rich owner and nothing else.

A long read- some of the comments by the late Mr. Gartside have not aged well! Truthfully, they actually did a hell of a lot the 'right' way and it was bold for, ahead of its time! Hotel, Exhibition facilities, concerts, Reebok having their European HQ there!

Quote

 

Boltons golden kettle man scores over Abramovich

Eddie Davies has restored the fortunes of Bolton Wanderers on and off the pitch and done it with a fraction of the money laid out by Chelsea. By Tom Walker

April 23 2006, 1:00am, The Sunday Times

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In this pie-and-chips corner of Lancashire, Eddie Davies is their man.

Eddie who? Eddie Davies made his money in thermostats and kettle parts. The chairman of Strix Group might not be the best-known businessman in northwest England, but he has done Bolton proud. Davies, 59, based in the Isle of Man, owns 94% of the club’s holding company, Burnden Leisure, and has helped to transform it into the 23rd-largest football business in Europe, according to the accountants Deloitte in their annual Football Money League.

Barely 15 years ago this club was staring into the abyss. Its ground, Burnden Park, had been immortalised in LS Lowry’s “Going to the Match” painting but it had become so ramshackle that one end was the back wall of a supermarket. The most Bolton could hope for in those dark days was a decent run in the Freight Rover Trophy. Now, under the club’s outspoken manager, “Big Sam” Allardyce, there is even mention of the Champions League. Achieve that, and Bolton would be in the European top 20.

For Allan Duckworth, Bolton’s chief executive, it has been a giddy ascent. What Duckworth, 52, and his management team have achieved, they believe, is a blueprint for football success — based on a philosophy of building revenue streams from activities other than football.

The renaissance of the club began in the mid-1990s, with the construction of the Reebok stadium. Completed at a cost of £35m in 1997, it coincided with a rise in football fortunes, with Bolton being promoted to the Premiership the same season. But then everything went wrong and Bolton were relegated the following year.

Phil Gartside, the new chairman, picked out Duckworth as the man to bring some stability to a team — and business — that behaved like a yoyo. Duckworth had the right credentials: he had been finance director at Umbro, the sportswear company, where he had worked with Peter Kenyon, now Chelsea’s chief executive.

“I saw there was something exciting going on,” said Duckworth, sitting back in his blue-tinged office, its walls crammed with pictures of the muddied stars of days gone by. “Phil saw there was something more than a football club. The chemistry was right. It was a challenge I couldn’t resist.”

Duckworth keeps his cards close to his chest. Getting him to reveal how much Davies has put in — it is said to be about £14m in total — is as difficult as getting training secrets out of Allardyce. But the Deloitte report, which ranks clubs according to income from “day-to-day football business operations” puts Bolton’s 2004-5 revenue at €78.6m (£54.6m), slightly beneath Rangers at €81.6m and just ahead of Bayer Leverkusen on €78.2m.

“Unless you are Manchester United, you don’t make profits from football matches themselves,” said Duckworth, admitting that his first 12 months were “pretty hairy”.

As Bolton sought to bounce back into the Premiership, Duckworth, Gartside and Allardyce sat down to consider their options. Yes, the new Reebok Stadium, with its soaring steelwork and stunning location beneath Rivington Pike, had won all sorts of architectural plaudits, but it didn’t get the club much further than that. It was pretty, handily located off the M61, but a financial black hole. The three got down to business.

After a study by Arthur Andersen, the De Vere hotel group was approached, and a joint-venture company, the Bolton Whites, formed the De Vere Whites Hotel, tucked into one end of the ground.

An exhibition hall, capable of seating 1,000, was turned into “the premier suite”. There were concerts with Lulu and Donny Osmond, along with black-tie events like the chairman’s ball and player-of-the-year presentations. All good, old-fashioned northern staples — and moneyspinners. The stadium hosted concerts by Sir Elton John, Oasis and Coldplay.

“We sell tickets for football easily enough,” said Duckworth. “So why not concerts and similar packages?” The club wants to make profits of at least £100,000 from such events: next up is the Spanish tenor, Jose Carreras.

The diversification continued. A use had to be found for the vacant north end of the ground: “We looked at a casino and night-club arrangement, but realised that it wouldn’t be appropriate,” said Duckworth. He then brought in the Reebok company, which hired the top two floors of the stand as its new European headquarters and clothing-design centre, relocated from the Netherlands.

The De Vere Whites hotel increased its sales last year to £8.6m, but television income — £26.8m — is still the bedrock of the business, as it is for all Premiership clubs. And Duckworth sees this continuing, especially now that the European Commission appears to have resolved its difficulties over distribution rights and television monopoly issues.

Duckworth said that, in contrast to the early years, Burnden Leisure now had the “full confidence” of its main bank, the Co-op, and debt was under control. Bolton are able to compete on wages with most Premiership clubs, they avoid paying exorbitant transfer fees, and season-ticket sales have risen from 12,000 to more than 20,000.

Looking to the future, there are 11,000 “Junior Whites” in the club fanbase, up from fewer than 100 at the start of the Allardyce revolution in 1999. Non-football revenue streams have developed to the extent that Bolton is not even considering raising the stadium’s capacity above its current 28,000.

The potential fly in the ointment, of course, is that Allardyce could leave, either for the vacant England job or for a top club such as Newcastle. Duckworth is adamant that Bolton could cope with losing him and talks about “stability and long-term structure” having been achieved. Everything is about risk control, and that is based on the assumption that Bolton will finish each season somewhere around the European qualification places. “Not every year,” said Duckworth, “but if we take risks on that platform, we can afford it. If you want to know what we are, I would say we are a hotel shaped like a football stadium. The two businesses feed off one another.”

Whatever happens to the Wanderers next season, Eddie Davies is unlikely to become a household name. The quiet man from the Isle of Man will continue to fly in by private jet and then disappear back to his thermostats. Trying to contact the reclusive Davies is next to useless.

Gartside reckons that this season alone, Davies has probably contributed as much as £6m to the Wanderers. In return, he asks for little — and certainly not the limelight. “It’s no mean feat what he has done,” said Gartside. “Eddie is not the type to seek publicity. To be honest I would prefer not to talk about (money) myself. Financial mismanagement is so bloody easy in football — just look at what happened to Leeds.”

 

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

all this talk about the EFL not wanting to take on clubs is a bit of a mute point when only this season they deducted birmingham ( a pretty big club in the grand history of it all) 9 points for disregarding the new rules,

Just remember the new rules haven't been in place for long,  just because we haven't seen results right away (birmingham aside) doesn't mean we won't see results,

If Villa win the play-offs and its proved they breached FFP can't the EFL overturn their promotion?, I'm sure I read that somewhere

They can! They can stop promotion, they have that power. However it is looking extremely unlikely that they will apply this power...but who knows. They have the accounts for this season already submitted by the clubs so they can but seem unwilling to risk...unless books cooked. i.e. ground sale to themselves, exceptional items etc which EFL seem happy to wave through.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think phasing out of parachute payments as opposed so a sudden hard stop perhaps- the problem is the TV gap between the PL and Championship- if you suddenly remove parachute payments then TV income falls about 93% in a year...no easy answers.

However second bit I completely agree. In Germany they have or more likely had, a licensing system. I'd adopt elements of this- maybe a requirement to break even except for good investment that benefits the club medium to long run, combined with an obligation to ring fence assets e.g. stadia, training facilities, academy from bent owners. Unsure how that 2nd bit would fit legally, whether it'd be feasible- but apart from that 'good' investment, income must match expenditure exactly- or no license to play for the season!

The premier league is only concerned with the premier league and it's clubs.

Parachute payments are the pL's way of providing a buffer against the financial reality of life outside the prem, beyond that the PL have little concern with what happens to a relegated club. Unfortunately, parachute payments skew the championship as a competition, so for non related clubs to compete they have to much the boat out , and usually beyond their means, hence the huge deficits now being seen.

The premier league is not going to change anything to benefit the championship. The only way I can ever see any major change to footballs finances and financial controls is if we see the financial demise of a "big" club. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The premier league is only concerned with the premier league and it's clubs.

Parachute payments are the pL's way of providing a buffer against the financial reality of life outside the prem, beyond that the PL have little concern with what happens to a relegated club. Unfortunately, parachute payments skew the championship as a competition, so for non related clubs to compete they have to much the boat out , and usually beyond their means, hence the huge deficits now being seen.

The premier league is not going to change anything to benefit the championship. The only way I can ever see any major change to footballs finances and financial controls is if we see the financial demise of a "big" club. 

 

 

I'm unsure how I view parachute payments- I'm open minded. Clubs typically earn £100m per season in PL from TV, give or take. In the Championship it's £7-8m. Parachute payments are likely IMO a necessary evil HOWEVER the way they are implemented should be conditional. Relegation wage reductions already in place, usually 40-50% at most clubs- are a help- but they only go so far. A way to make it fairer could be to be used largely on players who cannot be shifted and to prove that they cannot be shifted, the EFL could refuse to register them even if they are stuck on the payroll- i.e. they could still draw their money and the amortisation cost would still be on the books until sold but the club would not benefit on the pitch.

That's one idea anyway. The clubs in receipt of them would also have to show real and full willing to sell or to loan out, get wages covered- fee- make it conditional on behaviour basically. I think they are not a bad idea in themselves, but have been misused horribly by any number of clubs. Essentially it can be used for running costs, i.e. on wages and amortisation for players who just cannot be moved on, but not count towards FFP calculations, should only be there to cover unavoidable costs I feel. Stoke buying Baath, Woods, Etobo, Ince, McClean, Vokes and Afobe, plus retaining Butland, Martins Indi and Allen, e.g. is not by any stretch unavoidable- EFL need some creative solutions on this.

Ironically though, Aston Villa have one of the bigger deficits of all- despite 3 years of parachute payments- incredible really. Gambling on getting back quick, but that makes it doubly  bad. Other clubs- see Wolves exploited their leeway under FFP to the maximum last season especially- profit in year one, allowable costs and a structure which allowed big promotion bonuses- exempt from FFP- all meant they just about passed.

We now have tariffs for losses to points ratio and additions for aggravated breaches- it is therefore imperative that they are stuck to.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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About time the powers that be at THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLTON (ex Bolton Tech ) got the right royal order of the boot. Using tax payers funding and student fees to pay for the naming rights of what was once called the Reebok Stadium. Reebok ,a multi national business that decided  having their name aligned to a failing business and failing team was not good PR or marketing.And yet the numpties running the so called University can stump up the money .Interesting to find out  who benefits from the corporate hospitality and box ,all at the tax payers expense. 

What goes round comes round...with the likely pending administration ,the name University of Bolton will always now be viewed in the same light , and relegated back to Bolton Technical Collage (then at least it was run as a proper seat of learning ). 

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1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

I would imagine a twelve point deduction over no club is the preferred option.

What I find strange in all this (and having a look at the Bolton forum), there hasn't been the level of panic you would expect from their fans.

Normally would agree, but I don't see any way back now. They have players who can serve notice, makes the administrator's job harder given their most easily realisable assets can just simply walk, and given how tight League One bottom half is, with a squad potentially walking away, -12 makes it probable that League 2 beckons for 2020/21. 

Who's going to buy that?

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56 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The only way I can ever see any major change to footballs finances and financial controls is if we see the financial demise of a "big" club. 

 

 

If the Glasgow Rangers situation is a yardstick for that, the attitude of competitor clubs and the league itself will be a resounding "Bitch, please".

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2 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/may/a-note-from-from-the-chairman/

When Dean Holdsworth and l first got involved with the club three years ago, l recall the late Eddie Davies telling me that ‘he had over 50 expressions of interest, mostly from dreamers and tyre kickers, who had indeed wasted a great deal of everyone’s time.’

Unfortunately, three years on and nothing seems to have changed.

Mr Bassini has failed to provide any adequate and acceptable proof of current and future funding to the EFL, the other secured creditors or me despite him keep telling the media, and anyone else that listens, that he has the ability to perform since early March when first discussions were held with him and his advisors.

His failure to perform has actually caused far greater hardship to the staff than would have occurred if he had not given undertakings he clearly cannot honour. For this I am deeply sorry and offer my apologies to the hard working staff of both the football club and Whites Hotel.

It is very disappointing that despite all of this he continues to make false accusations and promises, which are very misleading.

The question I have been asked is why, given the numerous warnings, I entertained an approach from Mr Bassini, in hindsight this has proved a mistake. However, at the time the only alternative was to place the business in to administration, I felt giving him the opportunity to complete the deal was worth the risk of delaying this process by a few days, which unfortunately became weeks. 

I really had no idea that the club, my family and myself would be dragged through the media in such tawdry manner, whilst Mr Bassini seems to show no regard for his own reputation. His continued inaccurate outbursts to anyone that waves a microphone at him have been both damaging and in the most wholly inaccurate.

Mr Bassini, regrettably his continued time wasting and empty promises have caused a great deal of heartache and frustration for the staff and supporters alike and now leave the Eddie Davies Trust and I with little or no choice other than for one of us to place the businesses into administration, as any likelihood of finding any resolution the High Court hearing not possible.

This had been a massive disappointment to me as I understand the serious implications administration will bring to the businesses. But I have been left with no alternative, as this course of action will preserve the football club and all of its proud history.

I would like to thank all my colleagues at Bolton Wanderers and Bolton Whites for all their hard work during my tenure as Chairman and owner. Whilst it is easy to focus on the negatives, the positives will leave me with some fond memories. I wish nothing but the very best for everybody connected with this football club and I have no doubt whatsoever that this great football club will once again stand shoulder to shoulder with the giants of the game.

Ken

Perhaps it's just how I've read it (with my cynical head on), but to me he's trying to push all of the blame for the clubs problems onto Bassini. 

Strange man.

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

all this talk about the EFL not wanting to take on clubs is a bit of a mute point when only this season they deducted birmingham ( a pretty big club in the grand history of it all) 9 points for disregarding the new rules,

Wasn't that much of a punishment was it really. They weren't going up nor were they going down. Hey presto, they stay put in the championship with a fresh start 

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30 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Wasn't that much of a punishment was it really. They weren't going up nor were they going down. Hey presto, they stay put in the championship with a fresh start 

Fresh start?

Not quite- they have to keep their losses at £13m or less for the remaining period until that 3 year rolling spell is up- so £13m (plus allowable losses this season) and the same in 2019/20.

6 month losses or half season losses to December based on their Hong Kong results already showed it above £13m for the 6 months/half season alone...they should be in line for more punishments therefore.

https://almajir.net/2019/02/28/bsh-interim-results-to-december-2018/

http://www3.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2019/0228/LTN201902281106.pdf

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fresh start?

Not quite- they have to keep their losses at £13m or less for the remaining period until that 3 year rolling spell is up- so £13m (plus allowable losses this season) and the same in 2019/20.

6 month losses or half season losses to December based on their Hong Kong results already showed it above £13m for the 6 months/half season alone...they should be in line for more punishments therefore.

https://almajir.net/2019/02/28/bsh-interim-results-to-december-2018/

http://www3.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2019/0228/LTN201902281106.pdf

Plus an additional penalty for failing to fulfil fixtures. They could start next season 20 points or more down. Assuming they are not liquidated.

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55 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Plus an additional penalty for failing to fulfil fixtures. They could start next season 20 points or more down. Assuming they are not liquidated.

Birmingham played all their fixtures mate!

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

6 month losses or half season losses to December based on their Hong Kong results already showed it above £13m for the 6 months/half season alone...they should be in line for more punishments therefore.

I see - they really do deserve an extra deduction next season then!

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23 minutes ago, hail gus cesaer said:

Birmingham played all their fixtures mate!

Yes, meant to post in Bolton thread. Old age never comes alone!

 

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6 minutes ago, phantom said:

Fair play to them, turns out that it was Preston 

20190514_163534.jpg

FFS, what's the world coming to, football clubs needing to get bungs from other clubs so their staff can eat, the whole football world is nuts.

The blame lies with...the greed of the Prem, Sky and their millions.

Makes me sick.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48268140

Bolton Wanderers set up emergency food bank to help staff after wages go unpaid
During a turbulent year for the club on and off the field, non-playing employees have not been paid for April.

The Trotters, who were relegated to League One this season, became the first club to enter administration for six years on Monday.

"We're grateful for the support," club chaplain Phil Mason said.

"Often there is this perception that within football, people are paid a king's ransom, but of course the reality is that a lot of staff behind the scenes are on significantly low wages.

"They've got mortgages or rent to pay, they may have something coming up within their family and they've got food to put on the table as well as get to and from work."

It has been a tough season for the club, with players still to receive their salaries for March and April, alongside a return to League One after two seasons in the Championship.

Businesses have helped provide toiletries and nappies, as well as tinned goods, pasta, rice, freezer meals, frozen vegetables and bread.

And the Community Trust have also been given assistance from within the wider football community, including an unnamed Championship club believed to be Preston North End.

"It's tremendous that we've had support from a Championship club," Mason told BBC Radio Manchester.

"They have donated a significant amount in terms of Asda and Sainsbury's vouchers so we can use those in order to get additional provisions for the food supplies that we're offering to staff."

'Staff are anxious about the future'
Some staff have found the ongoing problems at the club have exacerbated existing mental health issues, and the Trust is offering support and counselling to those who need it.

"It's incredibly stressful for staff, there's no doubt about that," Mason said.

"The reality is, one in three or four people will have mental health issues and they can be triggered by a whole variety of things, not least of course the fact a person has not been paid or is not sure when they will be paid,

"They're anxious about the future of the organisation they work for, they don't know whether they're going to be kept on or made redundant and all those issues end up in places of stress and anxiety and that has an impact upon relationships at home, at work, and how they feel about themselves and their own self worth."

 

In a world where there is so much money in football, it's pretty disgusting that there are people struggling with mortgages/rent/food/bills because of a club in this way. The EFL need to take a hard look at themselves. This is disgraceful.

Edited by bcfcbird
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5 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

FFS, what's the world coming to, football clubs needing to get bungs from other clubs so their staff can eat, the whole football world is nuts.

The blame lies with...the greed of the Prem, Sky and their millions.

Makes me sick.

Without wanting to turn this thread about politics or religion etc. 

But recently we had Premier league clubs being advised to donate £250k each to Peter Scudamore, and more recently a number of high profile people donating millions to the restoration of a church! 

This just goes to show what a horrible mess is going on up there 

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8 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

FFS, what's the world coming to, football clubs needing to get bungs from other clubs so their staff can eat, the whole football world is nuts.

The blame lies with...the greed of the Prem, Sky and their millions.

Makes me sick.

Sam, couldn't agree more

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15 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

FFS, what's the world coming to, football clubs needing to get bungs from other clubs so their staff can eat, the whole football world is nuts.

The blame lies with...the greed of the Prem, Sky and their millions.

Makes me sick.

Didn't Gareth Southgate say something about loving the sport but not much liking the industry? My sentiments entirely.

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

Without wanting to turn this thread about politics or religion etc. 

But recently we had Premier league clubs being advised to donate £250k each to Peter Scudamore, and more recently a number of high profile people donating millions to the restoration of a church! 

This just goes to show what a horrible mess is going on up there 

In the interest of clarity, I should just like to state that my 'laughing Emoji' was in support of the two nonsensical issues to which you refer in your thread.

Peter S leaving gift - obscene.

Notre Dame - beautiful church - it's a Cathedral, but I take the point. 

For goodness sake, when a senior football official official earns £Millions per annum and the Catholic Church 'earns?' goodness how much, much of which is donated by the World's most impoverished, why can't they divert some of this to the world's poor, rather than to their elite?

 

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2 hours ago, phantom said:

Fair play to them, turns out that it was Preston 

20190514_163534.jpg

Fair play Preston.

Not to make light of the situation, but did anyone think City would send food vouchers to anyone?

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Does anyone know if there`s a donation site or anything for these folks? Without the behind the scenes people none of us would have a club to support and this too often ignored by the football `industry`.

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8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Fair play Preston.

Not to make light of the situation, but did anyone think City would send food vouchers to anyone?

It's the equivalent of us sending them to Rovers.

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14 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

Does anyone know if there`s a donation site or anything for these folks? Without the behind the scenes people none of us would have a club to support and this too often ignored by the football `industry`.

@Red Right Hand donations can be made via this link

https://www.justgiving.com/bwct

 

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FANS have already raised nearly £1,500 for unpaid staff at Wanderers and the Whites Hotel as they prepare to walk from Burnden Park to the University of Bolton Stadium this Saturday.

Supporters from several clubs have donated ahead of the walk, which will begin at 2pm from Wanderers’ old home and cover just over six miles to their current base.

More than two tonnes of food was gathered during two food bank drives at the weekend and people are now being requested to concentrate solely on non-perishable items if they intend to donate again.

Help is also being sought by the Bolton Wanderers Community Trust (BWCT) with distribution and collection of food.

The BWCT are working with the Bolton Wanderers Supporters’ Trust to help staff in need, alongside those in the wider Bolton public.

“We are all aiming for the same things out of this current situation and we will be keen to worktogether with BWFCST to help the club and its employees, recognising how important BWFC is in the Bolton community,” a statement read.

 

To donate to the Bolton Wanderers Community Trust visit bwct.org.uk/donate/.

To donate to the fundraising walk, visit their JustGiving page here.

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Sometimes football makes you despair.  Where is the levy on clubs to provide a support fund for such situations?

How about a levy on all Premiership clubs of 1% of player salaries and transfer fees?  They can certainly afford that.

Here is Manchester City's wage bill:

Manchester City Player Wages & Contracts 2018-19 (Revealed)
PLAYER AGE WEEKLY WAGE CONTRACT UNTILL
Ederson 24 £65,000 4 Years (2022)
Claudio Bravo 34 £80,000 2 years (2020)
Vincent Kompany 31 £120,000 1 Years (2019)
Nicolas Otamendi 29 £120,000 2 years (2020)
John Stones
23 £100,000 4 Years (2022)
Benjamin Mendy
23 £90,000 5 Years (2023)
Kyle Walker
27 £100,000 4 Years (2022)
Danilo
26 £80,000 5 Years (2022)
Aymeric Laporte
23 £65,000 1 Years (2019)
Fernandinho 32 £150,000 2 Years (2020)
Yaya Touré 34 £220,000 Last Year (2018)
Fabian Delph 28 £90,000 2 years (2020)
Rahim Sterling
23 £180,000 2 years (2020)
Ilkay Gündogan 27 £120,000 2 years (2020)
David Silva 32 £220,000 2 Years (2020)
Bernando Silva 23 £120,000 4 Years (2022)
Riyad Mahrez (New Signing) 27 £120,000 5 Years (2023)
Kevin De Bruyne 26 £350,000 5 Years (2023)
Sergio Agüero 29 £250,000 2 Years (2020)
Gabriel Jesus 20 £90,000 3 Years (2021)
Leroy Sané 22 £90,000 4 Years (2021)
Patrick Roberts 20 £10,000 2 years (2020)

 

 

https://sportschunky.com/football/manchester-city-players-salaries/

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On 08/05/2019 at 09:39, ScottishRed said:

Wages are the key issue.

The TV money has had an affect at all levels on these. The fact that some players in the Championship are on £60k per week beggars belief.

There needs to come a time when wages are linked to genuine turnover and cannot exceed a certain percentage, it is madness that clubs have a higher wages bill than turnover, never mind the other costs they incur.

With the exception of 'tech' start-ups no other business would operate that way if they wished to be sustainable.

Agree. Parachute payments are the source of evil. They celebrate failure and make clubs gamble on signing players, that even if they are relegated, they can pay in a hope of getting back up. Zero parachute payments and 80% wage drops in contracts will sharpen the minds of players , reduce gambling on overpaying in the Premiership (some will still ignore) and balance better the championship. It is a ludicrous system that awards riches for failure. That together with Prem teams stockpiling players is exaggerating a heavily biased system and making it worse. 

Of course there are other systems for wages that are used in sport around the world, the USA has some of the most elaborate . 

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