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WayOutWest

AS sending off

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2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

As you know Ole 'intent' has nothing to do with it. Lunging in, out of control, studs showing and catching an opponent halfway up the calf is dangerous play and a straight red ( as should have been Smith's high challenge last week.)

Interestingly, our home crowds get  vexed at the officials every time our players get outmuscled by smaller, less statuesque opponents. Waghorn won most challenges yesterday and did so fairly, not our crowd would agree. Again yesterday Didgeridoo, Brownhill, Eliassson and Weimann came off second best, as they and others invariably do. Pound for pound Famara has to rate the least imposing centre forward we've had in decades, few opponents come off knowing they've had to work hard to contain him and of late he's been one of our better performers.

I think there's a correlation between the volume of discontent shown toward officials and a reluctance to face the reality of the failings of the team we lovingly follow.

Did you actually go to the game? Or are you basing your ill-founded opinion on the radio commentary*?

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Unfortunately you tackle like that you leave yourself open to refs who have only heard of one manager and it sure as s*** ain't Lee. 

It's not even the player who rolls about like that's the end of his career right there, only to start running round like a two year old five minutes later, they all do it... 

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25 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Did you actually go to the game? Or are you basing your ill-founded opinion on the radio commentary*?

Sadly been going home and away for 50 odd years. I really should get a life as wouldn't know where to find the radio commentary.

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It's gone now, but the important thing for me is that he takes this out of his game. I like his aggression, but he's been lucky with some of his challenges earlier in the season. No good to us walking down the tunnel early. 

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4 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Shocking first touch, worse challenge and fully deserved red (as would have been Smith's last week had the ref correctly dismissed him when being carried off on the stretcher.) Other than the early first challenge from the rear yesterday  (which should should have received a yellow but didn't) plus the late-on Weimann 'clip' on Roos that wasn't, the officials called mostly everything spot on.

It's becoming somewhat of a weekly gripe amongst us old 'uns, why don't fans know the Laws of The Game they profess to love? Against Reading we had thousands screaming at the officials that they didn't know what they were doing - "the ball's not inside the corner quadrant" (it doesn't have to be,) - "idiot's given offside in the player's own half" (he can be,) et al. " You don't know what you're doing...." methinks "You don't know what you're talking about...."

 

So does Lee Johnson not know the rules of the game then as he was outraged at the decision? Also as I posted earlier pretty much identical challenge by Sean Long yesterday but not even foul because they arrive at the ball together so the opposing player doesn’t kick his foot and hurt himself. 

Edited by RedSA

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25 minutes ago, RedSA said:

So does Lee Johnson not know the rules of the game then as he was outraged at the decision? Also as I posted earlier pretty much identical challenge by Sean Long yesterday but not even foul because they arrive at the ball together so the opposing player doesn’t kick his foot and hurt himself. 

Its Laws not rules and if WeeLee thinks he's a case he'll appeal as with Semenyo there's nothing to lose, but he won't given its clearly an offence meriting dismissal.

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5 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Yesterday, save the key decisions I highlighted, the officials were good.

Interesting that Twentypence, who was at the game, stated that he thought the ref had more or less lost control of the game.

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4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I bemoan that too - it should have been ' the referee's a WAN*ER'! :yes:

Much prefer that to the more modern, vanilla 'Shit referee'. Also a longer one, 'The referee is full of shit'.

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36 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Interesting that Twentypence, who was at the game, stated that he thought the ref had more or less lost control of the game.

He obviously doesn't know the rules either.

It's only @BTRFTG who does and anyone who disagrees is clueless.

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57 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Interesting that Twentypence, who was at the game, stated that he thought the ref had more or less lost control of the game.

Twentystone is as adept at intellectual debate as he is timekeeping at relatives weddings ....

22 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

He obviously doesn't know the rules either.

It's only @BTRFTG who does and anyone who disagrees is clueless.

At least I know it's Laws not rules....

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29 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Twentystone is as adept at intellectual debate as he is timekeeping at relatives weddings ....

At least I know it's Laws not rules....

But you don't know what synonyms are?

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6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

But you don't know what synonyms are?

I do as I also understand the meaning of catachresis.

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On 27/04/2019 at 17:25, cityexile said:

He has given the ref a decision to make. He has gone in high, studs up, from a long way out. I actually think he could have got away with a yellow as it was one footed, he has not left the ground or jumped in, but it was naive. It was not malicious but it was not a shocking decision either. Just a day when everything went against us.

Shocking decision, never a red.

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16 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Its Laws not rules and if WeeLee thinks he's a case he'll appeal as with Semenyo there's nothing to lose, but he won't given its clearly an offence meriting dismissal.

Why call him WeeLee?

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14 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I do as I also understand the meaning of catachresis.

I bow down to your superior understanding of football compared to us mere mortals... 

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14 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I do as I also understand the meaning of catachresis.

So you know what a synonym is but can't identify one then.

Each of the Laws of the game contains several rules.

So talking about the rules of the game is perfectly valid.

Perhaps the reason you're so bothered about semantics is to distract from the fact you are in a small minority regarding the red card despite labelling others as clueless.

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27 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

Why call him WeeLee?

Because that's what we've always called him when he first played and so as to distinguish him from his father. The epithet stuck a la Smudger, The Chief, The Goat, The Wardrobe et al

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30 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

So you know what a synonym is but can't identify one then.

Each of the Laws of the game contains several rules.

So talking about the rules of the game is perfectly valid.

Perhaps the reason you're so bothered about semantics is to distract from the fact you are in a small minority regarding the red card despite labelling others as clueless.

The irony being you bemoan inconsistency yet think Laws and Rules synonymous - hint: they are not.

So as you might understand and as agenda item one on any referees  course, here goes:

Association Football has Laws, reason being its officials thereafter take only binary decisions (have the conditions for play been met, has time expired et al?) It's either and always yes or no.

In play and relating to infringement of The Laws the officials always take two decisions; has an infringement occured and where the decision is yes,  does DOGSO apply? Dependant upon both those decisions the penalties for infringement and the method of restarting play are prescribed. The officials have no say or interpretation in the matter (though in recent years the shambles that was Law 8 ( dropped ball) has seen officials acting beyond their empowerment, hence the fundamental change to that Law next season.)

Had Association Football rules the consequences for infringement would not be prescribed, would be subjective and hence would introduce the inconsistency you profess to dislike.

Football Associations have rules, FFP for example whereby a club found to have deliberately contravened the regulation will be in receipt of a far harsher punishment that one who may have inadvertently breached. The consequences are subjective.

As to the ref it matters not if I'm in a minority though those whose opinions I value, plus of course the officials, are similarly in said minority. If Semenyo's dismissal was incorrect there will be an appeal, though were I you I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

 

19 hours ago, Gakoe said:

Thanks for posting. I was wondering when that law was changed! 😐 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/jan/08/kickoffs-backwards-rule-changes

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18 hours ago, RedSA said:

So does Lee Johnson not know the rules of the game then as he was outraged at the decision? Also as I posted earlier pretty much identical challenge by Sean Long yesterday but not even foul because they arrive at the ball together so the opposing player doesn’t kick his foot and hurt himself. 

In this instance it’s not lee not knowing the laws of the game, it’s interpretation of them and the views. I’m as annoyed as anyone about the red but in the cold light of day I can accept that the ref only gets one view from one angle and without seeing that it’s hard to judge his call.

the replay that’s been posted in here is a different angle to that which I seen from the atyeo and does look worse than I saw in real time - though for me based on previous incidents in the game, still not a red. This is probably my biggest gripe in football though is the inconsistencies not only from game to game but within the same game.

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7 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

In this instance it’s not lee not knowing the laws of the game, it’s interpretation of them and the views. I’m as annoyed as anyone about the red but in the cold light of day I can accept that the ref only gets one view from one angle and without seeing that it’s hard to judge his call.

the replay that’s been posted in here is a different angle to that which I seen from the atyeo and does look worse than I saw in real time - though for me based on previous incidents in the game, still not a red. This is probably my biggest gripe in football though is the inconsistencies not only from game to game but within the same game.

I think Colin Murray or Dean Ashton (can't remember which of them said it) had a point when he said the referee made his mind up based on the reaction of Huddlestone, who was able to miraculously recover and was running around with no issues seconds later.

 

We should consider ourselves lucky, this is Lazarus all over again.

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Huddlestone gave out that little yelp, so important in getting refs to reach for a card.

I expect "Lamps" gets his boys to practise it in training. 

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7 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Because that's what we've always called him when he first played and so as to distinguish him from his father. The epithet stuck a la Smudger, The Chief, The Goat, The Wardrobe et al

Surely the name 'Lee' distinguishes him from his father 'Gary'?

 

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5 hours ago, Banjo Island said:

Ha yes robbo the all important scream whilst clutching a body part whilst rolling around is nearly always the magic formula for a red card

Can you imagine the late great Sir Gerry demeaning himself like this?

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Well if that's a red card we just as well make football a non contact sport.  It's already heading that way I know.

If Semenyo was going in to that challenge at full speed with a straight leg, thus avoiding any chance of injury to himself with no regard for his opponent then red every time.

Just mistimed for me no intent to harm.

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2 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Well if that's a red card we just as well make football a non contact sport.  It's already heading that way I know.

If Semenyo was going in to that challenge at full speed with a straight leg, thus avoiding any chance of injury to himself with no regard for his opponent then red every time.

Just mistimed for me no intent to harm.

It's not even mistimed. He won the ball and Huddlestone kicked the bottom of Semenyo's boot.

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Wait Hourihane's punch has been deemed as not violent conduct and therefore no ban :laugh: Punching a player in the mid rift is apparently fair game....

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LJ's reasoning was:

 

Quote

 

Did you contest Antoine Semenyo's red card in the end from the weekend?

No, we didn't contest it. We were just worried. We looked at it to contest it and we took some advice, but you always worry about the frivolous appeal.

Because if that goes against you then it costs the young lad another game.

Historically, even if it should have been a yellow card, you don't get them, so we decided to protect him for next season.

 

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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How I read LJ’s explanation is that the only way a red card is overturned is if there is no offence at all. In this case there is an argument for a yellow card but appeals don’t change red to yellow so an appeal could therefore be termed a frivolous appeal and incur an extra game ban.

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2 hours ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

How I read LJ’s explanation is that the only way a red card is overturned is if there is no offence at all. In this case there is an argument for a yellow card but appeals don’t change red to yellow so an appeal could therefore be termed a frivolous appeal and incur an extra game ban.

WeeLee should know The Laws and will know whether Semenyo was dismissed for an S1 or S2 offence. An appeal would not seek to demonstrate 'no offence' took place rather the offence didn't fall into the category listed in the official's match report. In which case they've reviewed it and concluded it was either SFP or Violent Conduct ( I'm assuming the former,) and to appeal against such would be frivolous. - much as we all knew would happen.

Edited by BTRFTG

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On ‎29‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 21:45, JamesBCFC said:

It's not even mistimed. He won the ball and Huddlestone kicked the bottom of Semenyo's boot.

Correct.

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

WeeLee should know The Laws and will know whether Semenyo was dismissed for an S1 or S2 offence. An appeal would not seek to demonstrate 'no offence' took place rather the offence didn't fall into the category listed in the official's match report. In which case they've reviewed it and concluded it was either SFP or Violent Conduct ( I'm assuming the former,) and to appeal against such would be frivolous. - much as we all knew would happen.

Excuse my ignorance, but SFP? 

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

WeeLee should know The Laws and will know whether Semenyo was dismissed for an S1 or S2 offence. An appeal would not seek to demonstrate 'no offence' took place rather the offence didn't fall into the category listed in the official's match report. In which case they've reviewed it and concluded it was either SFP or Violent Conduct ( I'm assuming the former,) and to appeal against such would be frivolous. - much as we all knew would happen.

 

7 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Excuse my ignorance, but SFP? 

Serious foul play I think.

Unsure Semenyo is guilty of a straight red card offence here though.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Serious foul play I think.

Unsure Semenyo is guilty of a straight red card offence here though.

Thanks all. 

I don’t think that tackle shows serious foul play though, although I’m not a qualified referee so my opinion is probably slightly rose tinted...

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2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Excuse my ignorance, but SFP? 

Serious Foul Play (S1) the alternate to Violent Conduct (S2)  and both straight reds - distinction being the latter also occurs when the ball or offender is not in play.

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Point being if there was any doubt it wasn't SFP why not appeal at risk it's four not 3 games missed? The lad is highly unlikely to start at the begining of next season so not taking a chance rather than serving out the ban this year when we might need him would be odd.

Hopefully we've simply told him to learn from what looks to have been an impulsive not premeditated mistake.

Edited by BTRFTG

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7 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Point being if there was any doubt it wasn't SFP why not appeal at risk it's four not 3 games missed? The lad is highly unlikely to start at the begining of next season so not taking a chance rather than serving out the ban this year when we might need him would be odd.

Hopefully we've simply told him to learn from what looks to have been an impulsive not premeditated mistake.

Maybe LJ has calculated that he might want Semenyo for the play off final to keep SL sweet, especially if he scores the winning goal?!

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