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AS sending off


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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Shocking first touch, worse challenge and fully deserved red (as would have been Smith's last week had the ref correctly dismissed him when being carried off on the stretcher.) Other than the early first challenge from the rear yesterday  (which should should have received a yellow but didn't) plus the late-on Weimann 'clip' on Roos that wasn't, the officials called mostly everything spot on.

It's becoming somewhat of a weekly gripe amongst us old 'uns, why don't fans know the Laws of The Game they profess to love? Against Reading we had thousands screaming at the officials that they didn't know what they were doing - "the ball's not inside the corner quadrant" (it doesn't have to be,) - "idiot's given offside in the player's own half" (he can be,) et al. " You don't know what you're doing...." methinks "You don't know what you're talking about...."

 

So you’re happy that the referees made all the right decisions at villa and yesterday?

people are screaming ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’ for good reason 

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2 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

So you’re happy that the referees made all the right decisions at villa and yesterday?

Yesterday, save the key decisions I highlighted, the officials were good.

At Villa ( and as I've previously indicated,) I'd expect the EFL & FA to hold an investigation as the performance of the officials there was the nearest thing I've seen to utter incompetence or corruption and either way they should never be allowed to officiate again. And if I had to opt, I'd be minded to think it the latter.

 

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2 hours ago, RedDave said:

I didn’t go 

 

I have to say Dave, although I have no problem with people having a different opinion on this, if you were there, saw the build up, saw the tackle in real time from a different angle and observed Huddlestone's positioning and reaction, you might well have had a different conclusion.

A foul, yes; dangerous play, no. The only way you could break something in a clash like that would be if you were playing with a balsa wood false leg. 

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4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Yesterday, save the key decisions I highlighted, the officials were good.

At Villa ( and as I've previously indicated,) I'd expect the EFL & FA to hold an investigation as the performance of the officials there was the nearest thing I've seen to utter incompetence or corruption and either way they should never be allowed to officiate again. And if I had to opt, I'd be minded to think it the latter.

 

So key decisions were wrong yet you class the officials as good. You suggest key decisions at villa could be ‘corrupt’ yet bemoan fans for singing ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’.....weird logic 

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17 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Shocking first touch, worse challenge and fully deserved red (as would have been Smith's last week had the ref correctly dismissed him when being carried off on the stretcher.) Other than the early first challenge from the rear yesterday  (which should should have received a yellow but didn't) plus the late-on Weimann 'clip' on Roos that wasn't, the officials called mostly everything spot on.

It's becoming somewhat of a weekly gripe amongst us old 'uns, why don't fans know the Laws of The Game they profess to love? Against Reading we had thousands screaming at the officials that they didn't know what they were doing - "the ball's not inside the corner quadrant" (it doesn't have to be,) - "idiot's given offside in the player's own half" (he can be,) et al. " You don't know what you're doing...." methinks "You don't know what you're talking about...."

 

Did you not think the foul on Webster in the first half near the touch line, not far from the dugouts was worse than Semenyo’s? On a side note, Johnson’s ( I think, should of already been on a yellow ) deliberate handball when we were on the break ( ref went to blow & then gave advantage ( correct decision), warranted a yellow? The ref imo opinion was poor, Twentyman ( who I think talks sense )  alluded to this after the game. This is a genuine question! Where do you sit? I sit in the Lansdown, so had a decent view of the foul on Webster, but not admittedly the Semenyo foul, although I’ve seen the highlights. COYR 

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10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I have to say Dave, although I have no problem with people having a different opinion on this, if you were there, saw the build up, saw the tackle in real time from a different angle and observed Huddlestone's positioning and reaction, you might well have had a different conclusion.

A foul, yes; dangerous play, no. The only way you could break something in a clash like that would be if you were playing with a balsa wood false leg. 

I watched the game so saw all that. Just wasn’t at the ground. 

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It was obvious to everyone it was a heavy tackle that might warrant a red but even though Harry Wilson went racing over to get in Semenyo's face with the theatrical indignation (which is always going to influence a ref) I was really expecting him to come over and diffuse the situation and give a yellow, recognising it was a teenager acting clumsily with no intent.

I based that assumption on the referees clear approach for the prior hour where Derby fouled us more than any team I can remember this season, often with plenty of intent to break up the game, yet only warranting the occasional yellow. The ref showed little interest in deterring Derby from their approach by penalising them, and that's okay if he is consistent.

As such, the red was not consistent with his approach to the game. Arguing about whether it was a red or not is irrelevant - the issue is whether he applies parity. Having seen it back it's still a "I've seen them given" but with plenty of latitude to be reserved, especially given players got hacked down left right and centre prior to that and he booked only 2 of them.

Incidentally, while it's been a poor month for decisions "nothing going our way", I don't think the standard of referees is getting worse, I don't think we're being picked on, and I certainly don't think there is any conspiracy. BUT I do consistently feel refs now have an unconscious desire to appease clubs with Premiership connections - a fear of not being "in the gang".

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12 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

So key decisions were wrong yet you class the officials as good. You suggest key decisions at villa could be ‘corrupt’ yet bemoan fans for singing ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’.....weird logic 

By 'key' decisions I mean those that may have had a longer term impact on the game. Yesterday had the ref rightly shown a yellow early doors he would have set the tone and many of the subsequent,  niggling tackles would not have arisen. Ditto Roo's time wasting. The officials did not make a single decision that altered the result of the game, unlike at Villa where there were a dozen or more 'strange' decisions that all contrived to hand victory to the home side. No weird logic there.

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1 minute ago, PortisheadIsRed said:

An OTIB first?

TBF I was respectfully disagreeing with @RedDave rather than lambasting him for not being at the game, or saying he was "wrong" - football is a game of opinions after all.

I was fairly near the incident, so had a decent view of it. One man who had an even better view was Lee Johnson and he called it "a ridiculous decision". Now Lee sometimes rues refereeing decisions, but he rarely as outright condemns them as in that case. 

Notwithstanding the ludicrous inconsistency of the ref - if he applied that standard to all tackles, Derby would've been playing with 8 men - it still was a yellow at most IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

TBF I was respectfully disagreeing with @RedDave rather than lambasting him for not being at the game, or saying he was "wrong" - football is a game of opinions after all.

I was fairly near the incident, so had a decent view of it. One man who had an even better view was Lee Johnson and he called it "a ridiculous decision". Now Lee sometimes rues refereeing decisions, but he rarely as outright condemns them as in that case. 

Notwithstanding the ludicrous inconsistency of the ref - if he applied that standard to all tackles, Derby would've been playing with 8 men - it still was a yellow at most IMO.

There are a dozen or so who I respect on here and you are one of them. 

The person with the best view was the ref. His view was perfect. I don’t think the 3 game ban will be reduced.

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2 minutes ago, Olé said:

intent

As you know Ole 'intent' has nothing to do with it. Lunging in, out of control, studs showing and catching an opponent halfway up the calf is dangerous play and a straight red ( as should have been Smith's high challenge last week.)

Interestingly, our home crowds get  vexed at the officials every time our players get outmuscled by smaller, less statuesque opponents. Waghorn won most challenges yesterday and did so fairly, not our crowd would agree. Again yesterday Didgeridoo, Brownhill, Eliassson and Weimann came off second best, as they and others invariably do. Pound for pound Famara has to rate the least imposing centre forward we've had in decades, few opponents come off knowing they've had to work hard to contain him and of late he's been one of our better performers.

I think there's a correlation between the volume of discontent shown toward officials and a reluctance to face the reality of the failings of the team we lovingly follow.

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1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

TBF I was respectfully disagreeing with @RedDave rather than lambasting him for not being at the game, or saying he was "wrong" - football is a game of opinions after all.

I was fairly near the incident, so had a decent view of it. One man who had an even better view was Lee Johnson and he called it "a ridiculous decision". Now Lee sometimes rues refereeing decisions, but he rarely as outright condemns them as in that case. 

Notwithstanding the ludicrous inconsistency of the ref - if he applied that standard to all tackles, Derby would've been playing with 8 men - it still was a yellow at most IMO.

Well I must say that I respectfully agree with you

I don't often listen to LJ's press conferences but I really enjoyed yesterday's one. He really did lay into the ref, and interesting to hear that he left before the final whistle as he didn't trust himself to 'stay as classy as possible'

As you say it is a game of opinions and I think LJ berates the officials more than us sometimes.

As for the red card itself, I didn't have a fantastic view of it but having seen the replay I believe it's a very harsh decision, and certainly no worse than Huddlestone's on Webster, although I can see the argument that Semenyo 'gave the ref a decision to make'

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8 minutes ago, RedDave said:

There are a dozen or so who I respect on here and you are one of them. 

The person with the best view was the ref. His view was perfect. I don’t think the 3 game ban will be reduced.

You may be right. But in part that's because of the limitations of the review process. It won't look at, and compare, other similar situations during the game.

Same reason we'll be in trouble over the ref's report about failing to control our players at Villa. The hearing won't look at the penalty decision, or any of the other ludicrous decisions in the lead up, it will just look at video of our players surrounding the ref and at one point actually pushing him. 

And, who are the other 11??!! 😉

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41 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

So key decisions were wrong yet you class the officials as good. You suggest key decisions at villa could be ‘corrupt’ yet bemoan fans for singing ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’.....weird logic 

I bemoan that too - it should have been ' the referee's a WAN*ER'! :yes:

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13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

As you know Ole 'intent' has nothing to do with it. Lunging in, out of control, studs showing and catching an opponent halfway up the calf is dangerous play and a straight red ( as should have been Smith's high challenge last week.)

Interestingly, our home crowds get  vexed at the officials every time our players get outmuscled by smaller, less statuesque opponents. Waghorn won most challenges yesterday and did so fairly, not our crowd would agree. Again yesterday Didgeridoo, Brownhill, Eliassson and Weimann came off second best, as they and others invariably do. Pound for pound Famara has to rate the least imposing centre forward we've had in decades, few opponents come off knowing they've had to work hard to contain him and of late he's been one of our better performers.

I think there's a correlation between the volume of discontent shown toward officials and a reluctance to face the reality of the failings of the team we lovingly follow.

He didnt lunge in with his studs up ffs you old uns need your eyes tested! And the ball dosent have to be on the corner quandrant idiots?? Once again get your eyes tested the ball was no wear near the 'quadrant' line not one part of the ball was hovering over the quadrant line and ref didnt come over to check so thats what the idiots as you call them were screaming about can i take a guess you sit in the fairly high in the dolman?

Edited by Milan djurichimovic
Typo
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8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

reluctance to face the reality of the failings of the team we lovingly follow.

I'm pretty sure we all know deep down we are not a streetwise team, never have been in my lifetime - certainly not a side you would pick in a fight (not in itself a criticism as there are other ways to win) - but then this season had promised a little different given a number of our narrow away wins which have left "bigger" teams feeling bruised and even robbed.

But you are right we are not physically imposing (besides Kalas) and it is by design. Waghorn, sadly, was outstanding and showed how a lone striker can play the role effectively - although I don't agree about Fam who does the job well now too and IS in my eyes a nuisance to defenders, albeit there is minimal goalscoring threat because it is all executed at snails pace.

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12 hours ago, nebristolred said:

You literally see players come away from those challenges with broken legs. It's a red.

But as I've said, so was Huddlestone's in the first half, and that wasn't bloody given.

But the multiple identical tackles by Derby players often didn't get given as even a freekick, the ones that were given were a warning at most. No consistency.

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33 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

By 'key' decisions I mean those that may have had a longer term impact on the game.

The officials did not make a single decision that altered the result of the game, 

:facepalm: apart from not dealing with potential ‘sending off’ offences by derby and sending one of our players off

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From where I was in S82, Semenyo looked like he won the ball completely but then the two of them tangled while trying to assert their bodies, which would make it a foul against Semenyo at most, but in my opinion, not even a foul at all. I feel the issue was the referee seemed to be standing almost directly behind AS and the Derby player, and perhaps from that angle him putting his foot in and going down looked a lot more dangerous. Nonetheless, he won the ball, hence myself and others around me were in absolute disbelief at how it could be a red.

Absolutely ridiculous imo, hopefully the red card will be rescinded, and the referee removed from that so-called list of "professionals" who officiate in the Championship.

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39 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Did you not think the foul on Webster in the first half near the touch line, not far from the dugouts was worse than Semenyo’s? On a side note, Johnson’s ( I think, should of already been on a yellow ) deliberate handball when we were on the break ( ref went to blow & then gave advantage ( correct decision), warranted a yellow? The ref imo opinion was poor, Twentyman ( who I think talks sense )  alluded to this after the game. This is a genuine question! Where do you sit? I sit in the Lansdown, so had a decent view of the foul on Webster, but not admittedly the Semenyo foul, although I’ve seen the highlights. COYR 

Opposite side with the best view in the ground. I thought the Webster challenge was a very robust 50:50 and not reckless or dangerous, but could be wrong. Like you I thought  the handball should have received a yellow but the Ref correctly played the advantage and I think simply forgot to return to book the player given the subsequent passages of play. Had we scored I'd rather the goal than the booking. I'm also baffled by the modern day inconsistency in not booking handballs which de facto are deserving of a yellow.

One could correctly berate the Ref for failing to punish defenders for obstruction when running the ball out of play or of not correctly restarting the game when a drop ball arises, but these now appear as consenting practice even if not enshrined within The Laws.

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13 minutes ago, Milan djurichimovic said:

He didnt lunge in with his studs up ffs you old uns need your eyes tested! And the ball dosent have to be on the corner quandrant idiots?? Once again get your eyes tested the ball was no wear near the 'quadrant' line not one part of the ball was hovering over the quadrant line and ref didnt come over to check so thats what the idiots as you call them were screaming about can i take a guess you sit in the fairly high in the dolman?

Not so high as to see with the 'contentious' corners that the edge of the ball was overhanging the quadrant (one could see ref and lino consulting at distance,) and in both Smith's and Semenyo's challenges they were dangerous and deserving of a red. That's the advantage of sitting in the more expensive seats watching the game cf fretting about waving flags whilst singing ( sic) asinine chants....

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2 hours ago, Southport Red said:

Seems to me people’s problems aren’t with the Red Card decision per SE,but rather the inconsistency. Straight Red is a big deal, dangerous play, likely to cause harm etc. When Huddleston did EXACTLY the same thing, the ref didn’t even give a no card free kick. So the SAME challenge was variously very dangerous (when we did it) and not even a foul (when they did it). If Huddleston had been straight red carded I don’t suppose too many on here would be complaining about Antione’s Card. 

The fact that the same action was interpreted diametrically opposite by the same refin the same game is the bit that sticks in the craw. 

Exactly. No consistency. All I want is fairness as I said regarding the Villa Ref. If he decides he is going to clamp down on fouls then do it for both sides. I thought Webster in particular was targeted for some rough stuff, thought he was going to be the first one to go off injured. Then came the fouls on Brownhill, kick in the head wasn’t it? Not sure what happened with a Baker, foul or unlucky clash? 

Also, wasn’t surrounding the Ref what our players got into trouble for at Villa, well Derby are just as guilty. Also thought I saw Keough applauded the sending off of AS, I hope I was wrong as that’s just plain despicable.

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