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AS sending off


WayOutWest

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

 

It's becoming somewhat of a weekly gripe amongst us old 'uns, why don't fans know the Laws of The Game they profess to love? Against Reading we had thousands screaming at the officials that they didn't know what they were doing - r quadrant" (it doesn't have to  - "idiot's given offside in the player's own half" (he can be,) et al. " You don't know what you're doing...." methinks "You don't know what you're talking about...."

 

Not according to FIFA

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf

Page5

 

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3 hours ago, hertsexile said:

The point is that samenyo has pushed the ball away from Huddleston before he arrives semenyo has gone to ground but if anything it is a foul by Huddleston. Ref has reacted to being swamped by Derby players baying for the Red card very in professional. Also Huddleston has made a  meal of the challenge 

Exactly this, AS knocks the ball on, wins it, feet on the floor, is about to get up, Huddleston falls over him and makes a meal of it, and the Derby players react and the ref red cards him, not even a foul in my opinion.   If this is not rescinded then I'm done. 

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3 hours ago, hertsexile said:

The point is that samenyo has pushed the ball away from Huddleston before he arrives semenyo has gone to ground but if anything it is a foul by Huddleston. Ref has reacted to being swamped by Derby players baying for the Red card very in professional. Also Huddleston has made a  meal of the challenge 

Exactly as I saw it. I didn't know that Huddlestone trained at RADA? Semenyo was very unfortunate, not even a yellow for him, but maybe should have been fir Huddlestone's play acting.

And if Semenyo was red, then the foul on Webster by him should have been red.

Derby are a typical side who could play really well but seem to concentrate on all the niggly stuff. Like Waghorn who is a nasty piece, who always jumps into the defender rather than trying to head the ball.

In fact I'm sick of opposing forwards doing that and never punished by refs.

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40 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

One assumes you refer to my comment re the crowd berating the ref for award of a free kick for offside against a player in his own half? In which case you should simply read Law 11 which opens something along the lines 'it is not an offence for a player to be in an offside position.'

The two requirements you highlight in the slides are mutually exclusive and do not have to be concurrent, though both conditions must be fulfilled. Last week the player was in an offside position in the opponent's half but was inactive. He only became involved in active play when dropping back into his own half. That's the point at which the offence occurs and the spot from which the game was correctly restarted.

Simples.

 

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2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Shocking first touch, worse challenge and fully deserved red (as would have been Smith's last week had the ref correctly dismissed him when being carried off on the stretcher.) Other than the early first challenge from the rear yesterday  (which should should have received a yellow but didn't) plus the late-on Weimann 'clip' on Roos that wasn't, the officials called mostly everything spot on.

It's becoming somewhat of a weekly gripe amongst us old 'uns, why don't fans know the Laws of The Game they profess to love? Against Reading we had thousands screaming at the officials that they didn't know what they were doing - "the ball's not inside the corner quadrant" (it doesn't have to be,) - "idiot's given offside in the player's own half" (he can be,) et al. " You don't know what you're doing...." methinks "You don't know what you're talking about...."

 

I'd imagine you missed the studs up lunge on one of our players around 25 minutes in, almost carbon copy to semenyos. 

The difference was we didn't roll around on the floor or go screaming to the ref and so not even a foul was given... 

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4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I'd imagine you missed the studs up lunge on one of our players around 25 minutes in, almost carbon copy to semenyos. 

The difference was we didn't roll around on the floor or go screaming to the ref and so not even a foul was given... 

Like the officials I thought the Webster challenge was an old-fashioned, blood and thunder 50:50. Two blokes going at each other at pace though in a controlled manner. I thought it neither reckless or dangerous. Derby may have made much of it but fact is Semenyo, doubtless frustrated at his awful touch, dived in uncontrolled and could easily have broken the bloke's leg.

If, too, you think we don't go screaming at and imploring to the officials at every opportunity then you clearly haven't seen much of Brownhill, Weimann and Patterson this year who do nothing but every time they're in a challenge.

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1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

Like the officials I thought the Webster challenge was an old-fashioned, blood and thunder 50:50. Two blokes going at each other at pace though in a controlled manner. I thought it neither reckless or dangerous. Derby may have made much of it but fact is Semenyo, doubtless frustrated at his awful touch, dived in uncontrolled and could easily have broken the bloke's leg.

If, too, you think we don't go screaming at and imploring to the officials at every opportunity then you clearly haven't seen much of Brownhill, Weimann and Patterson this year who do nothing but every time they're in a challenge.

It wasn't the Webster challenge (which I thought was a yellow at the time, and still would, if the referee hadn't decided to give a red for semenyos...) 

It was closer to the penalty area and was a carbon copy of semenyos tackle. At the time I was shocked it wasn't a foul, or a booking but I didn't think it was a red. I still don't think it should have been, but if semenyos was, then it definitely was. 

I've yet to see any of our players in the referees face screaming at him, which is what the derby players were doing yesterday. 

As for a leg breaker, there's no chance that tackle could break anybodys leg, never mind an atheletes

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2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

As you know Ole 'intent' has nothing to do with it. Lunging in, out of control, studs showing and catching an opponent halfway up the calf is dangerous play and a straight red ( as should have been Smith's high challenge last week.)

Interestingly, our home crowds get  vexed at the officials every time our players get outmuscled by smaller, less statuesque opponents. Waghorn won most challenges yesterday and did so fairly, not our crowd would agree. Again yesterday Didgeridoo, Brownhill, Eliassson and Weimann came off second best, as they and others invariably do. Pound for pound Famara has to rate the least imposing centre forward we've had in decades, few opponents come off knowing they've had to work hard to contain him and of late he's been one of our better performers.

I think there's a correlation between the volume of discontent shown toward officials and a reluctance to face the reality of the failings of the team we lovingly follow.

Did you actually go to the game? Or are you basing your ill-founded opinion on the radio commentary*?

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Unfortunately you tackle like that you leave yourself open to refs who have only heard of one manager and it sure as s*** ain't Lee. 

It's not even the player who rolls about like that's the end of his career right there, only to start running round like a two year old five minutes later, they all do it... 

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25 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Did you actually go to the game? Or are you basing your ill-founded opinion on the radio commentary*?

Sadly been going home and away for 50 odd years. I really should get a life as wouldn't know where to find the radio commentary.

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4 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Shocking first touch, worse challenge and fully deserved red (as would have been Smith's last week had the ref correctly dismissed him when being carried off on the stretcher.) Other than the early first challenge from the rear yesterday  (which should should have received a yellow but didn't) plus the late-on Weimann 'clip' on Roos that wasn't, the officials called mostly everything spot on.

It's becoming somewhat of a weekly gripe amongst us old 'uns, why don't fans know the Laws of The Game they profess to love? Against Reading we had thousands screaming at the officials that they didn't know what they were doing - "the ball's not inside the corner quadrant" (it doesn't have to be,) - "idiot's given offside in the player's own half" (he can be,) et al. " You don't know what you're doing...." methinks "You don't know what you're talking about...."

 

So does Lee Johnson not know the rules of the game then as he was outraged at the decision? Also as I posted earlier pretty much identical challenge by Sean Long yesterday but not even foul because they arrive at the ball together so the opposing player doesn’t kick his foot and hurt himself. 

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25 minutes ago, RedSA said:

So does Lee Johnson not know the rules of the game then as he was outraged at the decision? Also as I posted earlier pretty much identical challenge by Sean Long yesterday but not even foul because they arrive at the ball together so the opposing player doesn’t kick his foot and hurt himself. 

Its Laws not rules and if WeeLee thinks he's a case he'll appeal as with Semenyo there's nothing to lose, but he won't given its clearly an offence meriting dismissal.

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57 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Interesting that Twentypence, who was at the game, stated that he thought the ref had more or less lost control of the game.

Twentystone is as adept at intellectual debate as he is timekeeping at relatives weddings ....

22 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

He obviously doesn't know the rules either.

It's only @BTRFTG who does and anyone who disagrees is clueless.

At least I know it's Laws not rules....

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On 27/04/2019 at 17:25, cityexile said:

He has given the ref a decision to make. He has gone in high, studs up, from a long way out. I actually think he could have got away with a yellow as it was one footed, he has not left the ground or jumped in, but it was naive. It was not malicious but it was not a shocking decision either. Just a day when everything went against us.

Shocking decision, never a red.

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14 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I do as I also understand the meaning of catachresis.

So you know what a synonym is but can't identify one then.

Each of the Laws of the game contains several rules.

So talking about the rules of the game is perfectly valid.

Perhaps the reason you're so bothered about semantics is to distract from the fact you are in a small minority regarding the red card despite labelling others as clueless.

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27 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

Why call him WeeLee?

Because that's what we've always called him when he first played and so as to distinguish him from his father. The epithet stuck a la Smudger, The Chief, The Goat, The Wardrobe et al

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30 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

So you know what a synonym is but can't identify one then.

Each of the Laws of the game contains several rules.

So talking about the rules of the game is perfectly valid.

Perhaps the reason you're so bothered about semantics is to distract from the fact you are in a small minority regarding the red card despite labelling others as clueless.

The irony being you bemoan inconsistency yet think Laws and Rules synonymous - hint: they are not.

So as you might understand and as agenda item one on any referees  course, here goes:

Association Football has Laws, reason being its officials thereafter take only binary decisions (have the conditions for play been met, has time expired et al?) It's either and always yes or no.

In play and relating to infringement of The Laws the officials always take two decisions; has an infringement occured and where the decision is yes,  does DOGSO apply? Dependant upon both those decisions the penalties for infringement and the method of restarting play are prescribed. The officials have no say or interpretation in the matter (though in recent years the shambles that was Law 8 ( dropped ball) has seen officials acting beyond their empowerment, hence the fundamental change to that Law next season.)

Had Association Football rules the consequences for infringement would not be prescribed, would be subjective and hence would introduce the inconsistency you profess to dislike.

Football Associations have rules, FFP for example whereby a club found to have deliberately contravened the regulation will be in receipt of a far harsher punishment that one who may have inadvertently breached. The consequences are subjective.

As to the ref it matters not if I'm in a minority though those whose opinions I value, plus of course the officials, are similarly in said minority. If Semenyo's dismissal was incorrect there will be an appeal, though were I you I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

 

19 hours ago, Gakoe said:

Thanks for posting. I was wondering when that law was changed! ? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/jan/08/kickoffs-backwards-rule-changes

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18 hours ago, RedSA said:

So does Lee Johnson not know the rules of the game then as he was outraged at the decision? Also as I posted earlier pretty much identical challenge by Sean Long yesterday but not even foul because they arrive at the ball together so the opposing player doesn’t kick his foot and hurt himself. 

In this instance it’s not lee not knowing the laws of the game, it’s interpretation of them and the views. I’m as annoyed as anyone about the red but in the cold light of day I can accept that the ref only gets one view from one angle and without seeing that it’s hard to judge his call.

the replay that’s been posted in here is a different angle to that which I seen from the atyeo and does look worse than I saw in real time - though for me based on previous incidents in the game, still not a red. This is probably my biggest gripe in football though is the inconsistencies not only from game to game but within the same game.

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7 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

In this instance it’s not lee not knowing the laws of the game, it’s interpretation of them and the views. I’m as annoyed as anyone about the red but in the cold light of day I can accept that the ref only gets one view from one angle and without seeing that it’s hard to judge his call.

the replay that’s been posted in here is a different angle to that which I seen from the atyeo and does look worse than I saw in real time - though for me based on previous incidents in the game, still not a red. This is probably my biggest gripe in football though is the inconsistencies not only from game to game but within the same game.

I think Colin Murray or Dean Ashton (can't remember which of them said it) had a point when he said the referee made his mind up based on the reaction of Huddlestone, who was able to miraculously recover and was running around with no issues seconds later.

 

We should consider ourselves lucky, this is Lazarus all over again.

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