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Where do we go from here


joe jordans teeth

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2 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

SL demands progress every season he has said so I’m guessing he’s going to give lee a big budget to work with come the summer because he’s demanding playoffs at the least and dispite my reservations about lee you can’t say he’s not doing his job

I have a feeling that Lee will go. No malice in the opinion, just a feeling. No drama either. A business decision promoted by the suits. It's a tough remit in a thoroughly unforgiving league.

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Where do we go? Well, some things like bringing in some goals are self evident, but easier said than done. But I'm increasingly convinced that one thing we need to practice in the summer, and that is within our control, is to just be more cynical. 

Today it was the high, late, dangerous challenges that got the headlines, but what I found equally frustrating was the way that Derby consistently and cynically stopped our players every time there was any momentum building; anyone going on a run, anyone making a break, anyone getting past their opponent. It just needs a nudge, a push in the back, a trip, a hand, nothing too bad. And yes it will resu,t in a couple of yellow cards during the game, although with a bonehead in charge like we had today there will be as many occasions when it gets missed completely.

It spoils the game as a spectacle, disadvantages exciting players, but sadly it seems to work. There were times today when I thought I was watching Neil Warnock's not Frank Lampards Derby County.

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2 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

How can he lead anything when you have smarmy mark ashton overlooking him who makes the signings and unless you go along with the impression all footballers are idiots then they know themselves that January was the time when they needed boosting 

More in terms of preparing teams to succeed outside top sides. Reading, Wigan and Sheff Wed for example. All games where you could “expect” city to pick up 3 points yet performances are woeful. I have asked the question before about leading and motivating with Johnson. He has come a long way but still feels the cheap off brand option. 

Also the last two January’s have been very frustrating. More could have been done to help LJ be even more succesful

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1 hour ago, RedDave said:

I would sell Pisano, Baker, Pack, Taylor, Watkins and COD will go. 

Agree apart from pack . He’s a good player but he’s got a lot of pressure on him as LJ has built a team around him . We don’t just need other formations around the same man imo but different systems to fit different midfielders .

I'm sure  every club knew. Stop pack we stop them 

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Johnson has done an admirable job this season. I think he has matured as a manager this year - his post match interviews make much more sense and his substitutions have been better.

For me we have the core of a serious contender to gain automatic next season but need a striker and more depth in CM. 

Another season of progress and I’m sure Lansdown will see this as the time to push on. 

Hopefully

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12 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Agree apart from pack . He’s a good player but he’s got a lot of pressure on him as LJ has built a team around him . We don’t just need other formations around the same man imo but different systems to fit different midfielders .

I'm sure  every club knew. Stop pack we stop them 

I still maintain on the Pack front, a bona fide central 3 and especially if he wasn't quite so deep would make it that much harder for the opposition to negate him.

When I say a bona fide central 3, I don't really in the main include Paterson in that respect- he's more of a '10' isn't he? Mind you, he did pretty well yesterday by all accounts...

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I still maintain on the Pack front, a bona fide central 3 and especially if he wasn't quite so deep would make it that much harder for the opposition to negate him.

When I say a bona fide central 3, I don't really in the main include Paterson in that respect- he's more of a '10' isn't he? Mind you, he did pretty well yesterday by all accounts...

If there is one tactical thing LJ is absolutely against it is a bona fide 4-3-3. I don't mean variations on that, including playing our best defender there, but a true 4-3-3.

I don't suggest it is necessarily the way to go but I'd love to know why he seems to dislike it.

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15 hours ago, RedDave said:

We have a better team than last season and have progressed. 3-4 new players and hopefully progress again.

Ive loved this season 

Interesting. When you say "a better team" are you referring to points gained, position in the table, or something more to do with a more determined and together group (ie team)? 

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Just read a post on twitter that said with two games remaining last season we were on 66 points,identical to this season. Another stat was that we have taken 13 points from the last 13 games so although we have been in the mix until yesterday it seems very similar to last season. Progress yes but a bit like Groundhog day.

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Our priorities should be:

1. Do everything possible to retain Kalas, DaSilva & Palmer. Of them Kalas is the most important but will also be the hardest to retain, we should break our current wage ceiling if needed to keep him. If we could retain Kalas (and Webster of course) then Baker can be off loaded.

2. Upgrade on Pack in central midfield. Pack has been a good servant but he just too slow, fine if given time & space but close him down and he often either gets caught in possession or plays a poor pass. A 'Barry Bannan' type, to dictate our play in CM is what we need.

3. Find a 20 goal striker. Weimann is NOT the answer, very laudable that he runs himself into the ground, but his shooting and final passing is nowhere near good enough most of the time.  As much as I like Matty Taylor, he is not really good enough at Championship level either. Maybe Semenyo could become that player, but we need other options. 

 

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15 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Firstly we need to see a reaction in the last 2 games of the season. Mathematically we are not yet out of it, but realistically it's Derby's play-off place to lose.

This summer and next season are crunch time for Lansdown, Ashton and Johnson, assuming we are playing in the Championship. We need to keep our best players, including the loanees, plus we need top notch additions in midfield and up front. The club has to go for it next season given the 3 relegated teams will be Huddersfield, Fulham and Cardiff. There is only so long that you can keep "building" without actually achieving. Look at Wolves - they could be playing in the Europa League next season!

Agree with most of this post.

This coming season should be a bit of a 'go for it' season, IMO.

Hopefully:

IN- Kalas, Da Silva, a striker- that last one isn't easy though. Has a decent or at least reasonable all-round game as well as a good conversion rate I think. For all the justifiable praise Tammy gets on here, his underlying numbers- conversion rate aside- are not dissimilar to Diedhiou, and actually in a few areas a bit worse.

OUT:

One of Fielding and Maenpaa. Don't think we need 3 keepers. Pisano out of contract, aging- not a WB. Has had injuries- done alright for us but he isn't the future. If we sign Kalas, might Baker be a useful asset to trade? Watkins, plus loan out Adelukan and Eisa. Could even consider selling Diedhiou if it helps to get that striker listed above.

Palmer. Undecided- has shown some excellence but not so much from the start. Certainly made his mark v Bolton and Wigan...better v lesser sides? Better at home maybe.

O'Dowda- Would like to keep him personally but it all depends on whether he's minded to leave on a free next summer.

Get Vyner into the squad.

Wolves had a business model that was very atypical of sides outside the top flight for a while. Still do actually- SL wouldn't countenance using a super agent such as Mendes either I'm sure. They utilised the FFP to the max as well.

The 3 likely relegated sides? Funnily I don't think they will be so weak as people think.

Huddersfield have a very good financial position- yes a poor side but their new manager seems the issue there too. If they upgrade him, they have some foundations.

Cardiff. Well keep Warnock and do a Burnley type model. Fair bit of disposable cash too. I remember forecasting this at start of season- Smithies, Cunningham, Murphy and Reid all very capable at this level. Madine may return from Sheffield United too- another good addition for this level.

Fulham are the most interesting one. Ironically now they've gone down, there are elements of their excellent side from the 2nd half of last season.

Finances not so good but keep Parker, trade well and it isn't so terrible. Think they signed too much too quickly as well, running before they could walk- because in isolation a fair few decent individuals signed by them.

Also possible that people playing for moves away so that could all implode!

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I suspect that Derby will lose to Swansea and we will beat Millwall - in which case it will do down to the last game of the season. Ultimately we will come up short regardless of the final day result. A disappointing end to the season - but we have punched well above our weight. Not sure what SL's 5 year plan is - but assume he will look at this season as progress. That said even with a backup squad of talented youngsters we need leaders in the team and on the bench. and that 20+ goal a season striker in order to kick on. That was what was missing this season.

We would easily have had made the playoffs with a decent striker. I love Famara's  work rate and passion. and think he has a major role to play in our progress in the next few years - but we need a consistent goal scorer - simple as. 

 

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Firstly, to understand where we need to go one needs to understand the dynamic as to who calls the shots re recruitment? Is it Lansdown and Ashton or WeeLee and his cronies? We've invested decent sums (most of which on rubbish,) so from that perspective we should expect to be up there punching. As is, I think we've over performed given the quality (sic) of the personnel at WeeLee's disposal. That said pre season it was patently obvious we were in desperate need of two strikers and a couple of creative midfielders and arrive they did not. Take off the rose-tinteds and we're comfortable courtesy of a number of fortuitous results in games where we were largely outplayed. In truth the most comfortable we've been all season is exploiting our decent defense when playing on the break against the better teams.

Secondly, and as demonstrated again yesterday WeeLee and his cronies do have questions to answer. Until the enforced change defence and midfield might as well have been in different counties as there was no link and they were too far apart. This has been a failing for many home games this season. Our inanimate management again failed to react until injury intervened. Dropping Webster back to where he should have started (he's more effective bringing the ball out at pace than being tasked to be Dieter Hamann,) plus the enforced dropping Weimann deeper gave us a better shape and linkage and posed Derby issues. Unlike at Villa we didn't lose to a poor officials; other than the first rear tackle they failed to punish they got most decisions spot on. We lost because Derby invested in proven strikers and promising loanees and were deadly in front of goal: we didn't and weren't. We also didn't lose because of Semenyo's dismissal though as with Smith last week a woeful first touch and shocking challenge this time did rightfully see red.

IMHO Johnson will not take us higher. I think the way forward is to follow the Wolves/ Huddersfield model of identifying managerial talent with knowledge of lower league continental football, to scrap the policy of buying for the future (scrapheap,) but instead to invest in whoever best we can afford at the time they're needed. Deja Vu but as with last year had we a single quality striker at the club we'd have made the play-offs. Either we didn't learn from that or one has to considered what I thought ill-founded, the rumour that perhaps our owners really don't want top-flight at the moment.

 

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16 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Firstly, to understand where we need to go one needs to understand the dynamic as to who calls the shots re recruitment? Is it Lansdown and Ashton or WeeLee and his cronies? We've invested decent sums (most of which on rubbish,) so from that perspective we should expect to be up there punching. As is, I think we've over performed given the quality (sic) of the personnel at WeeLee's disposal. That said pre season it was patently obvious we were in desperate need of two strikers and a couple of creative midfielders and arrive they did not. Take off the rose-tinteds and we're comfortable courtesy of a number of fortuitous results in games where we were largely outplayed. In truth the most comfortable we've been all season is exploiting our decent defense when playing on the break against the better teams.

Secondly, and as demonstrated again yesterday WeeLee and his cronies do have questions to answer. Until the enforced change defence and midfield might as well have been in different counties as there was no link and they were too far apart. This has been a failing for many home games this season. Our inanimate management again failed to react until injury intervened. Dropping Webster back to where he should have started (he's more effective bringing the ball out at pace than being tasked to be Dieter Hamann,) plus the enforced dropping Weimann deeper gave us a better shape and linkage and posed Derby issues. Unlike at Villa we didn't lose to a poor officials; other than the first rear tackle they failed to punish they got most decisions spot on. We lost because Derby invested in proven strikers and promising loanees and were deadly in front of goal: we didn't and weren't. We also didn't lose because of Semenyo's dismissal though as with Smith last week a woeful first touch and shocking challenge this time did rightfully see red.

IMHO Johnson will not take us higher. I think the way forward is to follow the Wolves/ Huddersfield model of identifying managerial talent with knowledge of lower league continental football, to scrap the policy of buying for the future (scrapheap,) but instead to invest in whoever best we can afford at the time they're needed. Deja Vu but as with last year had we a single quality striker at the club we'd have made the play-offs. Either we didn't learn from that or one has to considered what I thought ill-founded, the rumour that perhaps our owners really don't want top-flight at the moment.

 

Leave the funnies to me .

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I still maintain on the Pack front, a bona fide central 3 and especially if he wasn't quite so deep would make it that much harder for the opposition to negate him.

When I say a bona fide central 3, I don't really in the main include Paterson in that respect- he's more of a '10' isn't he? Mind you, he did pretty well yesterday by all accounts...

He’s had two weeks rest and was fresh. He constantly runs into trouble , when he does get into good areas he’s got no end product . 

I might be wrong but all I can remember from the last year is the goal at sheff Utd and his ball out to nic elliasson v qpr . 

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4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

He’s had two weeks rest and was fresh. He constantly runs into trouble , when he does get into good areas he’s got no end product . 

I might be wrong but all I can remember from the last year is the goal at sheff Utd and his ball out to nic elliasson v qpr . 

Paterson in a central 3 not the way to go either way though IMO.

Did he score at Bolton? Way back in August and haven't checked but it sounds vaguely familiar.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Paterson in a central 3 not the way to go either way though IMO.

Did he score at Bolton? Way back in August and haven't checked but it sounds vaguely familiar.

Yes he did , you’re right. Imo , if we want to be a serious contender for promotion he’s not good enough in any position and I’d sell him. I reckon he’s got some dodgy photos of LJ to warrant so much game time. 

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47 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Firstly, to understand where we need to go one needs to understand the dynamic as to who calls the shots re recruitment? Is it Lansdown and Ashton or WeeLee and his cronies? We've invested decent sums (most of which on rubbish,) so from that perspective we should expect to be up there punching. As is, I think we've over performed given the quality (sic) of the personnel at WeeLee's disposal. That said pre season it was patently obvious we were in desperate need of two strikers and a couple of creative midfielders and arrive they did not. Take off the rose-tinteds and we're comfortable courtesy of a number of fortuitous results in games where we were largely outplayed. In truth the most comfortable we've been all season is exploiting our decent defense when playing on the break against the better teams.

Secondly, and as demonstrated again yesterday WeeLee and his cronies do have questions to answer. Until the enforced change defence and midfield might as well have been in different counties as there was no link and they were too far apart. This has been a failing for many home games this season. Our inanimate management again failed to react until injury intervened. Dropping Webster back to where he should have started (he's more effective bringing the ball out at pace than being tasked to be Dieter Hamann,) plus the enforced dropping Weimann deeper gave us a better shape and linkage and posed Derby issues. Unlike at Villa we didn't lose to a poor officials; other than the first rear tackle they failed to punish they got most decisions spot on. We lost because Derby invested in proven strikers and promising loanees and were deadly in front of goal: we didn't and weren't. We also didn't lose because of Semenyo's dismissal though as with Smith last week a woeful first touch and shocking challenge this time did rightfully see red.

IMHO Johnson will not take us higher. I think the way forward is to follow the Wolves/ Huddersfield model of identifying managerial talent with knowledge of lower league continental football, to scrap the policy of buying for the future (scrapheap,) but instead to invest in whoever best we can afford at the time they're needed. Deja Vu but as with last year had we a single quality striker at the club we'd have made the play-offs. Either we didn't learn from that or one has to considered what I thought ill-founded, the rumour that perhaps our owners really don't want top-flight at the moment.

 

To clarify, Wolves and Huddersfield had superficially similar models but quite different in reality.

Huddersfield signed lower Bundesliga, Bundesliga II more commonly. Varied others too.

Wolves? More like CL standard. Had a superagent in Mendes, indeed indirectly imported him and Nuno from Valencia- combined risk taking with utilisation of a super agent  and a manager who has managed in La Liga and CL.

Also would SL ever pay for a super agent? I have some doubts about that!

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19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

To clarify, Wolves and Huddersfield had superficially similar models but quite different in reality.

Huddersfield signed lower Bundesliga, Bundesliga II more commonly. Varied others too.

Wolves? More like CL standard. Had a superagent in Mendes, indeed indirectly imported him and Nuno from Valencia- combined risk taking with utilisation of a super agent  and a manager who has managed in La Liga and CL.

Also would SL ever pay for a super agent? I have some doubts about that!

Good point but whereas Wolves also splashed the cash on one or two known, expensive entities they've also acquire a number of less expensive talents from the 'where the hell did they come from Euro cupboard'? 

I think to improve we need both, the urgent, expensive solution of a proven striker and midfielder, and rather than waste monies on 'never will be talent for the future', spend on salaries for lower league, competent continentals most of us have never heard of. For that we need expertise in the field, not the phone numbers of Dad's ex clubs.

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5 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Good point but whereas Wolves also splashed the cash on one or two known, expensive entities they've also acquire a number of less expensive talents from the 'where the hell did they come from Euro cupboard'? 

I think to improve we need both, the urgent, expensive solution of a proven striker and midfielder, and rather than waste monies on 'never will be talent for the future', spend on salaries for lower league, competent continentals most of us have never heard of. For that we need expertise in the field, not the phone numbers of Dad's ex clubs.

As Ole said elsewhere, "goals over football" (mentioning Tony Thorpe, among others), something that remains a thing of the past in most manager's eyes. I for one would like a striker who scores lots of goals and frankly I could not give a rat's ar*e what else he does over 90 minutes or if he is an absolute **** !

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35 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Where have we progressed ? 44 games played 66 points, 51 goals conceded 56 goals scored (+5) Vs 66 points 55 goals conceded and 65 goals scored (+10) for 17/18

Exactly the same points, we have let in 4 less and scored 9 less for a worse GD. We found a way to play defensively away from home, that is true, but we were dire at AG as the same approach did not work. 

We have stood still whilst Norwich and Leeds substantially improved and Sheffield United wiped the floor with us in terms of results. 

 

With a significant chunk of the squad sold to stabilise the finances, including our main goalscorer, standing still could be said to be progress.

However, if LJ is forced to sell players against his will this summer and is not given the full proceeds if he is, there will be a falling out I reckon, especially with Ashton who is the power behind the throne.

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19 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Sadly, I think we lose Webster, da Silva and Kalas. Palmer is the more likely to keep I’d say. The other two Chelsea lads will go to better teams than us. 

Another rebuild is on the cards. 

Webster leaving is very unlikely IMO.

It's rare - though not unheard of - for a player to join one team permanently and then another a year later.

And on the occasions where it does happen it's usually because of some sort of bust up, either with players, coaches or fans.

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