Norwich and the Blades show it can be done properly

[Major Isewater]

Well done to both clubs.

They’ve been a credit to the Championship and have got promotion in the right way .

No overspending, no big name managers and attractive entertaining football to watch .

[RedM]

Yup, got to admit out of all the clubs who were likely to get promoted this year, us aside, they were the two I would have picked as having no grudges against so promoted with my good wishes. Trouble is now I don’t like any of the sides likely to join them. In one way I want them gone, but on the flip side hope they crash and burn even if it means playing them next year. 

But well done Norwich and Sheff Utd, not teams I would have put money on at the start of the season though, but I really am rubbish at betting. 

[Der no.2]

Two great away days as well, we gave Norwich a good game (we messed up tactically), with the Shef Utd day being my most enjoyable of the season.

Fair play to both teams.

 

[And Its Smith]

Further proof (if proof was needed) that spending big is not the answer. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Think I tipped Sheffield United for top 6 but will have to look at my post history. Norwich, thought they would be a decent possession based, midtable type side.

The real miracle of the 2- and both did extremely well, played the right way, was Sheffield United. They were well and truly in the doldrums, well not necessarily fully in the doldrums, but 5 years in League One and had just missed out on the playoffs. Wjat Wilder has done there were 2 or 3 expensive loanees this season granted, but what he's done there is pretty incredible. Style of play too- overlapping CB's in a back 3 is pretty rare.

Norwich are the great entertainers but as a bit of a yoyo side had more clout to attract foreign players- both did really well though. Fully deserved.

Good piece on the former- Sheffield United.

 

Quote

 

Sheffield United’s overlapping centre backs coming to a Premier League ground near you

gregor robertson

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If Sheffield United had spent the past three seasons in the Premier League their tactical innovations would have been lauded. “If I was in a bar having a coffee with friends, I would say Sheffield United’s manager is someone with new ideas and I have seen very few people with these kinds of ideas,” Marcelo Bielsa, the Leeds United head coach, said in November.

The most eye-catching feature of the Blades’ approach — “front-foot football” as Chris Wilder, the manager, describes it — is their use of overlapping centre backs. United play an expansive 3-5-2 formation, with Chris Basham and Jack O’Connell, the first-choice right and left-sided centre backs, either side of John Egan.

A consistent weapon in their armoury has been Basham and O’Connell’s attacking forays, their adroit link-up play with Enda Stevens, the left wing back, and either George Baldock or Kieron Freeman at right wing back, while one of several technically gifted midfielders in United’s ranks — usually John Fleck or Oliver Norwood — covers defensively.

The tactic was first employed in 2016-17 when United, then in League One and a big fish in a small pond, faced opposition who, to coin a phrase, parked the bus — especially at Bramall Lane. “The only overload we could get was a right or left side centre back going on,” says Alan Knill, the assistant manager who, more so than Wilder in fact, is the architect of the Blades system.

The issue, initially, was defensive vulnerability, “Once they go,” Knill says. “We got done 4-1 at Walsall, and it was four counterattacks: our right side centre back crossed one of them, and they went down the other end and scored. Four times. So we adjusted it a little bit, but the positives outweigh the negatives. By letting them go — not at the same time — it drives back their best attacking players. And there’s no counterattack [threat] because their best players are defending.”

There have been long hours of work on the training ground to fine-tune the system and counteract opponents’ attempts to obstruct them — which has proved far from easy. And the stats back up how unique the approach is. This season in the Championship, O’Connell and Basham have made 1.34 and 1.56 crosses per game in open play respectively; the average for current top-six centre backs is 0.12. In the attacking third, they have made 11.79 and 13.41 passes per game respectively; a huge increase on the top-six average of 5.97. Basham, the more adventurous of the two, has attempted 49 dribbles — only 14 fewer than Stevens — at a rate of 1.37 per game; the top-six average is 0.36.

Basham has been deployed in midfield on a couple of occasions, but Martin Cranie has proved an able deputy in the system. “Bash can play anywhere on the pitch and Jack is really powerful driving forward,” Knill says. “It really suits them. It’s such a risk-and-reward way of playing. But it’s enjoyable to watch.”

When promotion from League One was sealed in 2017, Knill and Wilder analysed hours of Championship football. They concluded that most teams in the division were risk-averse in their approach.

Sound familiar? A dozen teams in the top flight could be characterised as such but, next season, do not expect Sheffield United — or their overlapping centre backs — to tame their buccaneering spirit.

 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

The top two automatic promotion spots taken by non-parachute payment clubs. 

Norwich sell their best players, and go from 14th to promoted in 12 months. Sheffield United come up from L1 and with half that team are promoted in two seasons (spending about the same as us on wages).

OTIB: you have some explaining to do. Fire away.....

[PHILINFRANCE]

If City fail to make the play-offs, then I would like to see WBA promoted.

Not necessarily because I like them - I was disappointed they sacked Darren Moore - but because I would take a perverse delight in seeing both Leeds and Villa being denied promotion, especially with the incumbent problems faced by Villa with FPP.

[Blagdon red]

Both have passionate managers who have a real connection with their fans.

Creating such a sense of togetherness can't have done either club any harm.

[cider-manc]

4 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

If City fail to make the play-offs, then I would like to see WBA promoted.

Not necessarily because I like them - I was disappointed they sacked Darren Moore - but because I would take a perverse delight in seeing both Leeds and Villa being denied promotion, especially with the incumbent problems faced by Villa with FPP.

Assuming its not us it's a difficult one...

I don't like pulis so that rules out boro.

After saturday i really hope derby don't go up.

I don't like west broms treatment of moore. 

Leeds are... Well leeds. 

And villa are... Well... They are the new leeds.

 

 

[chinapig]

Compared to Norwich we are not good enough at scouting and the system changes at regular intervals.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/apr/28/patience-scouting-system-norwich-promotion-premier-league

[ChippenhamRed]

9 hours ago, RedDave said:

Further proof (if proof was needed) that spending big is not the answer. 

It’s not the only answer...but it worked well for Wolves the year before!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It’s not the only answer...but it worked well for Wolves the year before!

Wolves are a really interesting case study... possibly unique though!

Now if we're factoring in promotion bonuses which I assume this is, Wolves had the 4th highest wage bill last season but spent far better than Aston Villa and Middlesbrough.

Only a few million more than Derby, yet their expenditure was better by far again.

Yet promotion bonuses, payments are by definition just that..bonuses in the event of promotion- dependent on it. Strip them out and their standard wage bill was lower than Birmingham, Reading and on a par with QPR.

Undoubtedly helped by a super agent (Mendes) and his client manager (Nuno)- the latter managed Porto and Valencia- both in CL in past 2 jobs, and he frankly wouldn't have come to Wolves without Mendes, vice versa and of course FOSUN. All tied in together.

Yeah they spent, but they spent very well. Nuno got the best outnof them too. Think their wage bill excluding promotion bonuses was slipping towards midtable or upper midtable levels.

Plus. For all the Mendes linked stars.

Ruddy- Free

Bennett- Free

Coady- Inherited

Douglas- £2m at most?

Think Doherty also inherited, Gibbs White academy.

[Davefevs]

12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Think I tipped Sheffield United for top 6 but will have to look at my post history. Norwich, thought they would be a decent possession based, midtable type side.

The real miracle of the 2- and both did extremely well, played the right way, was Sheffield United. They were well and truly in the doldrums, well not necessarily fully in the doldrums, but 5 years in League One and had just missed out on the playoffs. Wjat Wilder has done there were 2 or 3 expensive loanees this season granted, but what he's done there is pretty incredible. Style of play too- overlapping CB's in a back 3 is pretty rare.

Norwich are the great entertainers but as a bit of a yoyo side had more clout to attract foreign players- both did really well though. Fully deserved.

Good piece on the former- Sheffield United.

Haven’t seen that style since 14/15!!!

[PhilC]

9 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

If City fail to make the play-offs, then I would like to see WBA promoted.

Not necessarily because I like them - I was disappointed they sacked Darren Moore - but because I would take a perverse delight in seeing both Leeds and Villa being denied promotion, especially with the incumbent problems faced by Villa with FPP.

 

I completely agree with this, although I do like WBA and have done for some time. I would like to think at some stage they will move on from being a yo-yo club and become a more stable PL club. Certainly my favourite of the midlands clubs.

 

Whilst I'm here, I'm actually delighted Sheff Utd managed to get an auto spot. Fully deserved in my opinion and I hope they can do a Bournemouth or Wolves. I'd much rather see Sheff Utd in the PL than one or two others.

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Haven’t seen that style since 14/15!!!

It's a shame our promotion side if that year couldn't kick on...in such a similar style too!

On paper higher ceiling with them too, age etc. Had some real hopes in May 2015!

[Baldyman]

Agreed re WBA. I really want to see Villa, Derby and Boro in our league next year as along with Sheffield Weds , could all fid themselves with points deductions for FFP breaches ( a la Brum)........would be dead handy for us next year if we;re able to kick on !