Flare

[JBFC II]

8 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

Just shy of 2,000 we had turn up mate. Never went, but have heard all sorts of stories about it. The video is great as well.

That post sums JBFC II up, complete snob. Bet he’s great fun at parties.

So because you don’t agree with my point of view I’m a snob? Right...

One went off at Millwall, the atmosphere didn’t improve because of it and it stank. 

If you like them, fair enough, I find them an unnecessary heath risk

[Pezo]

1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

So because you don’t agree with my point of view I’m a snob? Right...

One went off at Millwall, the atmosphere didn’t improve because of it and it stank. 

If you like them, fair enough, I find them an unnecessary heath risk

I can't think of anything that's not an unnecessary health risk, I drive to work, I drink coffee, I eat bacon, I stress myself out, I use the gym, I drive home, I have a drink, I put salt on food, I get too little sleep.

Fortunately we're not robots we're not completely logical and we enjoy things (different things fair enough).

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, Pezo said:

I can't think of anything that's not an unnecessary health risk, I drive to work, I drink coffee, I eat bacon, I stress myself out, I use the gym, I drive home, I have a drink, I put salt on food, I get too little sleep.

Fortunately we're not robots we're not completely logical and we enjoy things (different things fair enough).

All of those are perfectly legal things that are part of a day to day routine. 

Slightly different to bringing a flare to a football match (which is illegal) and putting other people’s health at risk, in whatever small way it may be. 

[AshtonPark]

25 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

All of those are perfectly legal things that are part of a day to day routine. 

Slightly different to bringing a flare to a football match (which is illegal) and putting other people’s health at risk, in whatever small way it may be. 

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

[JBFC II]

11 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

‘it's against the law to enter a football ground carrying fireworks, flares, or any sort of pyrotechnics, and anyone doing so faces three months in jail.’

It is according to the BBC, although that article is 8 years old, so the rules may have changed

[Mr Popodopolous]

@AshtonPark

Given it's happened club led at football in past times and indeed at other grounds- google Wolves for it- I'd suggest that it is legal for clubs to do it.

Not least as the risk factor quite a bit lower in the hands of competent people plus not in a stand itself than with a (likely) untrained member of the public in an enclosed environment such as a stand.

Julie H will doubtless clarify all however- can only make assumptions and best guesses as per the past and other clubs.

[AshtonPark]

so surely that makes even more of a farce on the rules, you have to enter the ground at some point with the pyro regardless of if it’s on the pitch or not.

its either dangerous or it isn’t, could fans let off smokes if they were in a bucket at the front of the stand for example on the pitch? (With permission from the club)

Could a member of the stadium staff let off smokes on the stand legally?

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

Indeed Julie H will settle the debate but until then judge for yourself.

Agree. If bucket of water etc. Think you have to let right type of person let it off too- insurance purposes, controlled environment etc.

Club would be risk averse about any old supporter letting it off.

[AshtonPark]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Indeed Julie H will settle the debate but until then judge for yourself.

Slightly different as that is fire and fireworks, I was purely on about the smoke canisters. 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen smoke canisters used by a club before. I imagine it’s a “it’s their land they can do what they want”, but it would be interesting to see if legally a member of staff could let them off within the stand.

[Murraysrightplum]

We need some flair. Rick or otherwise 

[JulieH]

27 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

Ooh good question, I will check my law books tomorrow and report back . 

[lenred]

I was pretty close to where it was let off inside the ground yesterday. My only thought was my surprise at how much smoke they let off. Quite impressive!  Didnt feel it in my lungs at all either but maybe the wind was going the other way. No problem for me either way - think they look good. 

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, BessexRED said:

Just shy of 2,000 we had turn up mate. Never went, but have heard all sorts of stories about it. The video is great as well.

That post sums JBFC II up, complete snob. Bet he’s great fun at parties.

You keep telling us how much fun they are for you, but every time someone mentions other people's health you either ignore it, post eggplants or get personal.

I'm just interested to know whether

- you don't really believe that they can cause people with impaired lung function to have serious breathing difficulties,

- think people like that shouldn't come to football,

-  just couldn't give a toss?

 

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

You keep telling us how much fun they are for you, but every time someone mentions other people's health you either ignore it, post eggplants or get personal.

I'm just interested to know whether

- you don't really believe that they can cause people with impaired lung function to have serious breathing difficulties,

- think people like that shouldn't come to football,

-  just couldn't give a toss?

 

He just has a personal vendetta against me, bordering on obsession. 

I'd imagine (hope) he fully understands the health risks of them, but just enjoys them for how they apparently add to the atmosphere 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Pezo said:

I can't think of anything that's not an unnecessary health risk, I drive to work, I drink coffee, I eat bacon, I stress myself out, I use the gym, I drive home, I have a drink, I put salt on food, I get too little sleep.

Fortunately we're not robots we're not completely logical and we enjoy things (different things fair enough).

Do you drive on the right, or on the left? 

[BessexRED]

24 minutes ago, italian dave said:

You keep telling us how much fun they are for you, but every time someone mentions other people's health you either ignore it, post eggplants or get personal.

I'm just interested to know whether

- you don't really believe that they can cause people with impaired lung function to have serious breathing difficulties,

- think people like that shouldn't come to football,

-  just couldn't give a toss?

 

I’ve made two comments on it, it’s hardly persistent. I enjoy them, I think they add to atmosphere as do 95% of football fans. They are a health risk I’ve been told, though I must’ve been stood or sat in a ground over 100 times when a flare has gone off and I’ve never seen it harm anyone. I get that it could do, but if it was likely why are the club letting them off at rugby games and how on earth do people with these problems attend games abroad where half the people in the stand are holding flares and they hand them to you as you go into the ground?

23 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

He just has a personal vendetta against me, bordering on obsession. 

I'd imagine (hope) he fully understands the health risks of them, but just enjoys them for how they apparently add to the atmosphere 

You picked your battle JBFC, you were happy to jump upon every post I made for weeks and weeks yet don’t like it when you get it coming back on you.

[JBFC II]

9 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

I’ve made two comments on it, it’s hardly persistent. I enjoy them, I think they add to atmosphere as do 95% of football fans. They are a health risk I’ve been told, though I must’ve been stood or sat in a ground over 100 times when a flare has gone off and I’ve never seen it harm anyone. I get that it could do, but if it was likely why are the club letting them off at rugby games and how on earth do people with these problems attend games abroad where half the people in the stand are holding flares and they hand them to you as you go into the ground?

You picked your battle JBFC, you were happy to jump upon every post I made for weeks and weeks yet don’t like it when you get it coming back on you.

They've been seen as a health risk, what happens in other countries is irrelevant. Taking drugs isn't illegal in Spain, does that make them harmless? Having a gun isn't illegal in the US, does that make it harmless? 

Of course flares aren't as dangerous as them, but they do house a safety threat and have led to deaths in other countries. Because you maybe haven't seen it, it doesn't mean or can't happen. People hadn't seen anything like the Bradford fie before, and yet that happened. 

Your last point is rather odd, asi rarely care about your posts, except of course when you mention me at random on posts I've not even looked at... 

[BessexRED]

10 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

They've been seen as a health risk, what happens in other countries is irrelevant. Taking drugs isn't illegal in Spain, does that make them harmless? Having a gun isn't illegal in the US, does that make it harmless? 

Of course flares aren't as dangerous as them, but they do house a safety threat and have led to deaths in other countries. Because you maybe haven't seen it, it doesn't mean or can't happen. People hadn't seen anything like the Bradford fie before, and yet that happened. 

Your last point is rather odd, asi rarely care about your posts, except of course when you mention me at random on posts I've not even looked at... 

That first paragraph is incredible. You’ve really just drawn comparisons between a flare and a gun? And then gone onto mention the Bradford fire, again a bizarre point in the context of this discussion.

Also, taking drugs isn’t illegal in Spain? I think you might want to double check that.

[italian dave]

14 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

I’ve made two comments on it, it’s hardly persistent. I enjoy them, I think they add to atmosphere as do 95% of football fans. They are a health risk I’ve been told, though I must’ve been stood or sat in a ground over 100 times when a flare has gone off and I’ve never seen it harm anyone. I get that it could do, but if it was likely why are the club letting them off at rugby games and how on earth do people with these problems attend games abroad where half the people in the stand are holding flares and they hand them to you as you go into the ground?

You picked your battle JBFC, you were happy to jump upon every post I made for weeks and weeks yet don’t like it when you get it coming back on you.

Thanks for the reply. I can see how they add to the atmosphere (tho they do stink!). But I have a friend, City fan, with CF who has been sat next to and near people who've set them off and I can promise you it's not much fun when someone struggles to get their breath. Pretty sure that will have been at one or more of the 100 games you've been at (Fulham away 3/4 years ago?). Maybe that's the difference between us.

I don't know enough about the circumstances at the rugby, but if they were the same type and had the potential to cause the same problems then I think the club is seriously at fault, and probably acting illegally. It doesn't make it right for everyone else to do it.

I suspect that in countries where it isn't banned then you'd know which parts of the ground to avoid. I know that's certainly the case in Italy. If you've got CF you don't go onto the Curva, but you'll be OK elsewhere. 

Have a good summer, and enjoy your smoke filled parties!!

[JBFC II]

6 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

That first paragraph is incredible. You’ve really just drawn comparisons between a flare and a gun? And then gone onto mention the Bradford fire, again a bizarre point in the context of this discussion.

Also, taking drugs isn’t illegal in Spain? I think you might want to double check that.

I've drawn comparisons as in they are both things that happen in countries that risk human life which people partake in, fortunately flares are illegal here unlike the examples mentioned. 

The Bradford fire incident shows that people didn't think smoking inside a wooden stadium would be a big issue, until something happened. Much like how you claim to have seen hundreds of flares,  if something bad happens (like the kid killed by one in South America a few years ago) then those hundred games become irrelevant. The risk is still there no matter how many times nothing happens. 

And consumption of drugs isn't illegal in Spain, you can check if you want

[BessexRED]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Thanks for the reply. I can see how they add to the atmosphere (tho they do stink!). But I have a friend, City fan, with CF who has been sat next to and near people who've set them off and I can promise you it's not much fun when someone struggles to get their breath. Pretty sure that will have been at one or more of the 100 games you've been at (Fulham away 3/4 years ago?). Maybe that's the difference between us.

I don't know enough about the circumstances at the rugby, but if they were the same type and had the potential to cause the same problems then I think the club is seriously at fault, and probably acting illegally. It doesn't make it right for everyone else to do it.

I suspect that in countries where it isn't banned then you'd know which parts of the ground to avoid. I know that's certainly the case in Italy. If you've got CF you don't go onto the Curva, but you'll be OK elsewhere. 

Have a good summer, and enjoy your smoke filled parties!!

No worries. I’m not ignorant to the fact they can cause issues with people like your friend, so thanks for sharing that story.

My only dispute was JBFC claiming they don’t add to the atmosphere. I’m not sure what games he’s been attending but the ones I have done they most certainly do. Fulham away is a great example, what a day that was. There’ve been a few this season as well haven’t there, Blackburn, Forest etc. 

I’ll be interested to see what Julie comes back with tomorrow in regards to the rules of having them on the pitch at the rugby anyway.

Enjoy your summer as well mate.

[JBFC II]

4 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

No worries. I’m not ignorant to the fact they can cause issues with people like your friend, so thanks for sharing that story.

My only dispute was JBFC claiming they don’t add to the atmosphere. I’m not sure what games he’s been attending but the ones I have done they most certainly do. Fulham away is a great example, what a day that was. There’ve been a few this season as well haven’t there, Blackburn, Forest etc. 

I’ll be interested to see what Julie comes back with tomorrow in regards to the rules of having them on the pitch at the rugby anyway.

Enjoy your summer as well mate.

I was at Blackburn, we scored and the atmosphere was great. The flare didn't add anything to it. 

I was also at forest, we scored and again there was a good atmosphere, the flare didn't make a difference to that. 

Millwall, we score and everyome goes a bit nuts, someone sets off a flare and does the atmosphere improve because of it? No... 

[BessexRED]

8 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I've drawn comparisons as in they are both things that happen in countries that risk human life which people partake in, fortunately flares are illegal here unlike the examples mentioned. 

The Bradford fire incident shows that people didn't think smoking inside a wooden stadium would be a big issue, until something happened. Much like how you claim to have seen hundreds of flares,  if something bad happens (like the kid killed by one in South America a few years ago) then those hundred games become irrelevant. The risk is still there no matter how many times nothing happens. 

And consumption of drugs isn't illegal in Spain, you can check if you want

It’s a daft comparison but I’ll just refer you to Pezo’s post earlier in the thread about risks as we’ll never agree.

I’ve looked it up anyway...

 

Unless consumption in private is legal which if you can provide evidence for then fair enough, if so that’d be truly bizarre.

[JBFC II]

2 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

It’s a daft comparison but I’ll just refer you to Pezo’s post earlier in the thread about risks as we’ll never agree.

I’ve looked it up anyway...

 

In public places being the main phrase there, in your home you can take whatever you want... 

And there are risks to flares, to think otherwise is odd to be honest

[BessexRED]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

In public places being the main phrase there, in your home you can take whatever you want... 

And there are risks to flares, to think otherwise is odd to be honest

So how do you go about getting these drugs? Unless you’re getting home delivery, in which case the person delivering is committing a crime, how on earth is it legal?

No-one’s said they weren’t a risk in this thread anyway.

[JBFC II]

2 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

So how do you go about getting these drugs? Unless you’re getting home delivery, in which case the person delivering is committing a crime, how on earth is it legal?

No-one’s said they weren’t a risk in this thread anyway.

The purchase is irrelevant, the fact is that consumption is legal. Which shows that in some countries where flares are a regular occurrence, their lapse laws on other life threatening items highlights a lack of safety. 

People seem to be looking over the risk that they can cause for human life because they  apparently increase atmosphere (which they rarely do...) 

[BessexRED]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

The purchase is irrelevant, the fact is that consumption is legal. Which shows that in some countries where flares are a regular occurrence, their lapse laws on other life threatening items highlights a lack of safety. 

People seem to be looking over the risk that they can cause for human life because they  apparently increase atmosphere (which they rarely do...) 

If you can provide evidence for your claims then fair enough.

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

If you can provide evidence for your claims then fair enough.

A Welsh man was killed at a game over 20 years ago due to being hit by a flare. 

A 14 year old boy was killed by a flare at a corinthians match in Brazil 6 years ago after being hit by a flare. 

Akinfeev, the Russian goalkeeper was hit by one durigg an international match a few years ago and was fortunate he suffered no serious injuries. 

There's a reason they are illegal here and in Europe, and although there haven't been any serious injuries caused by them over here in many years, it doesn't mean they aren't still a health risk

[BessexRED]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

A Welsh man was killed at a game over 20 years ago due to being hit by a flare. 

A 14 year old boy was killed by a flare at a corinthians match in Brazil 6 years ago after being hit by a flare. 

Akinfeev, the Russian goalkeeper was hit by one durigg an international match a few years ago and was fortunate he suffered no serious injuries. 

There's a reason they are illegal here and in Europe, and although there haven't been any serious injuries caused by them over here in many years, it doesn't mean they aren't still a health risk

I meant for drug consumption being legal in Spain. I said two posts ago I’m not discussing flares with you anymore as we’ll never agree on them.

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, BessexRED said:

I meant for drug consumption being legal in Spain. I said two posts ago I’m not discussing flares with you anymore as we’ll never agree on them.

https://www.euronews.com/2013/11/06/spain-where-drug-consumption-is-not-a-crime

Have a read