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MattWSM

Flare

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What is the general opinion of the flares going off

 

Do we know who let it off?

Was it the same person who let them off at Millwall and outside the stadium after the match today :)

Edited by MattWSM
Typo

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We don't want to be getting a reputation for this again, much as it can add to the atmosphere.

Technically flares and smoke devices aren't the same- flares are likely worse. I'm not anti it, indifferent at worst and possibly pro if anything- but as long as it remains illegal having a reputation for it isn't ideal as fans, as a club.

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1 hour ago, MattWSM said:

What is the general opinion of the flares going off

 

Do we know who let it off?

Was it the same person who let them off at Millwall and outside the stadium after the match today :)

Outside the ground? Surprised he/she wasn’t nicked.

I love them though. Massively add to atmosphere.

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9 hours ago, BessexRED said:

Outside the ground? Surprised he/she wasn’t nicked.

I love them though. Massively add to atmosphere.

Yes outside after the game. Walked through red smoke with mainly Hull fans

Edited by MattWSM
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10 hours ago, BessexRED said:

 

I love them though. Massively add to atmosphere.

In more than one way. And for people with respiratory illness, what's in the atmosphere can make the difference between breathing and not. 

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10 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Is it worth getting a banning order for the sake of a bit of coloured smoke?

Playing devil`s advocate here but is it actually a banning offence if it happened outside the ground though? Do the same rules apply? It could be argued that it was let off by some random person who hadn`t even been to the game - unlikely I know but once you`re out of the stadium where does `football related` stop?

Edited by Red Right Hand

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The club must like them as they put them on the pitch on Friday.

DDD06401-B664-453C-95EA-030296EB8B27.jpeg

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Love the pyro - either the smoke or flares or both. 

While it's illegal it shouldn’t be done as it attracts unwanted attention. 

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10 minutes ago, South Somerset Red said:

Just sums the law up. Thought these things were causing asthma attacks? Absolute garbage they feed us with, double standards much.

I must admit it was quite powerful, even at a distance and I don’t have asthma. I was surprised to see them being used. Looked good though. 

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15 hours ago, MattWSM said:

What is the general opinion of the flares going off

 

Do we know who let it off?

Was it the same person who let them off at Millwall and outside the stadium after the match today :)

Shouldn't be allowed into the ground. Dangerous things.  Stewards need to step up and stop them,  coming into the ground. 

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1 hour ago, South Somerset Red said:

Just sums the law up. Thought these things were causing asthma attacks? Absolute garbage they feed us with, double standards much.

Not sure what you think is "garbage". If it's the suggestion that they are a risk when let off in the stands then sorry mate but that is anything but 'garbage'. Not just asthma attacks, but all sorts of other illnesses that affect the lungs. Cystic fibrosis for one. 

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2 hours ago, South Somerset Red said:

Just sums the law up. Thought these things were causing asthma attacks? Absolute garbage they feed us with, double standards much.

I suppose a difference here is that it isn't just asthma attacks that'd make it unlawful and pose a risk but also a lack of control.

That picture? Looks a fairly controlled environment carried out presumably (hopefully) by someone who has a clue.

Person in the stand with it could be sensible- but they could also be an idiot, or drunk- or a drunken idiot! Just no way of knowing.

Forgetting the asthma debate a minute, important too is the fact they may drop it, or it may set smoke alarms off causing a partial evacuation, or it may injure someone or even they may panic about arrest and throw it on the pitch- these aren't made-up either, fairly sure all of this has happened at various grounds!

That's before we even get onto cf or asthma risk.

The other problem is that they burn at such temperatures- flares more so than mere devices that let off coloured smoke- you do not want it in untrained let alone potentially idiotic hands.

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/newsnow/248634/brondy-and-the-danish-fa-are-working-together-to-develop-safe-pyrotechnic-flares-that-burn-at-low-temperatures.html

It's an article from late 2016 but you maybe interested.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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4 hours ago, Pezo said:

Love the pyro - either the smoke or flares or both. 

While it's illegal it shouldn’t be done as it attracts unwanted attention. 

It certainly got my attention... almost looked pink to start with....

IMG_20190505_142225.jpg

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The Happy Clappers hate them, the Old Skool football fans love um.

Brings a bit of atmosphere and support into the City end. Went to Charlton away on a night game a few years ago. They expected circa 500 to turn up and we had somewhere around 1500 there (maybe more bit my memory is pretty shite TBH). The OB were under prepared.

Flare goes on the pitch and bloody hell, it was like a City home game - great days. Great day out was that.

There was a video on YouTube at one time that was worth a watch.

Edited by GasDestroyer
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40 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Don't really think they add to the atmosphere, they're a health risk and smell awful. 

Never been a fan

The kids like them...

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To expand on my post about it yesterday.

If we get a reputation for it again. It means more stringent searching, it means pyro dogs, it means heavier monitoring which isn't really something any of us want IMO.

Still they seem pretty popular- here and in Europe- so they do add something.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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8 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

The Happy Clappers hate them, the Old Skool football fans love um.

Brings a bit of atmosphere and support into the City end. Went to Charlton away on a night game a few years ago. They expected circa 500 to turn up and we had somewhere around 1500 there (maybe more bit my memory is pretty shite TBH). The OB were under prepared.

Flare goes on the pitch and bloody hell, it was like a City home game - great days. Great day out was that.

There was a video on YouTube at one time that was worth a watch.

Just shy of 2,000 we had turn up mate. Never went, but have heard all sorts of stories about it. The video is great as well.

That post sums JBFC II up, complete snob. Bet he’s great fun at parties.

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11 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

The Happy Clappers hate them, the Old Skool football fans love um.

Brings a bit of atmosphere and support into the City end. Went to Charlton away on a night game a few years ago. They expected circa 500 to turn up and we had somewhere around 1500 there (maybe more bit my memory is pretty shite TBH). The OB were under prepared.

Flare goes on the pitch and bloody hell, it was like a City home game - great days. Great day out was that.

There was a video on YouTube at one time that was worth a watch.

Never went but read good things about it on here- from what I've read City atmosphere àt it was special.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/charlton-athletic-1-bristol-city-1-mccombe-steps-up-to-provide-citys-cure-for-altitude-sickness-791416.html?amp

This game sounds about right?

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7 hours ago, RedM said:

The club must like them as they put them on the pitch on Friday.

DDD06401-B664-453C-95EA-030296EB8B27.jpeg

Appallingly bad decision to do this. Same rules should apply at Ashton Gate whether it's football, rugby or tiddly winks.

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2 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Appallingly bad decision to do this. Same rules should apply at Ashton Gate whether it's football, rugby or tiddly winks.

I'm sure I remember similar for football at Ashton Gate in the past.

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8 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

Just shy of 2,000 we had turn up mate. Never went, but have heard all sorts of stories about it. The video is great as well.

That post sums JBFC II up, complete snob. Bet he’s great fun at parties.

So because you don’t agree with my point of view I’m a snob? Right...

One went off at Millwall, the atmosphere didn’t improve because of it and it stank. 

If you like them, fair enough, I find them an unnecessary heath risk

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1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

So because you don’t agree with my point of view I’m a snob? Right...

One went off at Millwall, the atmosphere didn’t improve because of it and it stank. 

If you like them, fair enough, I find them an unnecessary heath risk

I can't think of anything that's not an unnecessary health risk, I drive to work, I drink coffee, I eat bacon, I stress myself out, I use the gym, I drive home, I have a drink, I put salt on food, I get too little sleep.

Fortunately we're not robots we're not completely logical and we enjoy things (different things fair enough).

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1 minute ago, Pezo said:

I can't think of anything that's not an unnecessary health risk, I drive to work, I drink coffee, I eat bacon, I stress myself out, I use the gym, I drive home, I have a drink, I put salt on food, I get too little sleep.

Fortunately we're not robots we're not completely logical and we enjoy things (different things fair enough).

All of those are perfectly legal things that are part of a day to day routine. 

Slightly different to bringing a flare to a football match (which is illegal) and putting other people’s health at risk, in whatever small way it may be. 

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25 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

All of those are perfectly legal things that are part of a day to day routine. 

Slightly different to bringing a flare to a football match (which is illegal) and putting other people’s health at risk, in whatever small way it may be. 

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

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11 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

‘it's against the law to enter a football ground carrying fireworks, flares, or any sort of pyrotechnics, and anyone doing so faces three months in jail.’

It is according to the BBC, although that article is 8 years old, so the rules may have changed

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@AshtonPark

Given it's happened club led at football in past times and indeed at other grounds- google Wolves for it- I'd suggest that it is legal for clubs to do it.

Not least as the risk factor quite a bit lower in the hands of competent people plus not in a stand itself than with a (likely) untrained member of the public in an enclosed environment such as a stand.

Julie H will doubtless clarify all however- can only make assumptions and best guesses as per the past and other clubs.

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so surely that makes even more of a farce on the rules, you have to enter the ground at some point with the pyro regardless of if it’s on the pitch or not.

its either dangerous or it isn’t, could fans let off smokes if they were in a bucket at the front of the stand for example on the pitch? (With permission from the club)

Could a member of the stadium staff let off smokes on the stand legally?

Edited by AshtonPark

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23 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

Indeed Julie H will settle the debate but until then judge for yourself.

SMSS35LJAFGUVDVOXY3247JMTY.jpg

Agree. If bucket of water etc. Think you have to let right type of person let it off too- insurance purposes, controlled environment etc.

Club would be risk averse about any old supporter letting it off.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Indeed Julie H will settle the debate but until then judge for yourself.

SMSS35LJAFGUVDVOXY3247JMTY.jpg

:yes:

Slightly different as that is fire and fireworks, I was purely on about the smoke canisters. 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen smoke canisters used by a club before. I imagine it’s a “it’s their land they can do what they want”, but it would be interesting to see if legally a member of staff could let them off within the stand.

Edited by AshtonPark

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27 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

It’s not though is it? 

@JulieH could you advise if it is legal to put smokes on the pitch at football, like ashton gate limited did for the rugby?

Ooh good question, I will check my law books tomorrow and report back . 

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I was pretty close to where it was let off inside the ground yesterday. My only thought was my surprise at how much smoke they let off. Quite impressive!  Didnt feel it in my lungs at all either but maybe the wind was going the other way. No problem for me either way - think they look good. 

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3 hours ago, BessexRED said:

Just shy of 2,000 we had turn up mate. Never went, but have heard all sorts of stories about it. The video is great as well.

That post sums JBFC II up, complete snob. Bet he’s great fun at parties.

You keep telling us how much fun they are for you, but every time someone mentions other people's health you either ignore it, post eggplants or get personal.

I'm just interested to know whether

- you don't really believe that they can cause people with impaired lung function to have serious breathing difficulties,

- think people like that shouldn't come to football,

-  just couldn't give a toss?

 

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3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

You keep telling us how much fun they are for you, but every time someone mentions other people's health you either ignore it, post eggplants or get personal.

I'm just interested to know whether

- you don't really believe that they can cause people with impaired lung function to have serious breathing difficulties,

- think people like that shouldn't come to football,

-  just couldn't give a toss?

 

He just has a personal vendetta against me, bordering on obsession. 

I'd imagine (hope) he fully understands the health risks of them, but just enjoys them for how they apparently add to the atmosphere 

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1 hour ago, Pezo said:

I can't think of anything that's not an unnecessary health risk, I drive to work, I drink coffee, I eat bacon, I stress myself out, I use the gym, I drive home, I have a drink, I put salt on food, I get too little sleep.

Fortunately we're not robots we're not completely logical and we enjoy things (different things fair enough).

Do you drive on the right, or on the left? 😉

Edited by italian dave

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24 minutes ago, italian dave said:

You keep telling us how much fun they are for you, but every time someone mentions other people's health you either ignore it, post eggplants or get personal.

I'm just interested to know whether

- you don't really believe that they can cause people with impaired lung function to have serious breathing difficulties,

- think people like that shouldn't come to football,

-  just couldn't give a toss?

 

I’ve made two comments on it, it’s hardly persistent. I enjoy them, I think they add to atmosphere as do 95% of football fans. They are a health risk I’ve been told, though I must’ve been stood or sat in a ground over 100 times when a flare has gone off and I’ve never seen it harm anyone. I get that it could do, but if it was likely why are the club letting them off at rugby games and how on earth do people with these problems attend games abroad where half the people in the stand are holding flares and they hand them to you as you go into the ground?

23 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

He just has a personal vendetta against me, bordering on obsession. 

I'd imagine (hope) he fully understands the health risks of them, but just enjoys them for how they apparently add to the atmosphere 

You picked your battle JBFC, you were happy to jump upon every post I made for weeks and weeks yet don’t like it when you get it coming back on you.

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9 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

I’ve made two comments on it, it’s hardly persistent. I enjoy them, I think they add to atmosphere as do 95% of football fans. They are a health risk I’ve been told, though I must’ve been stood or sat in a ground over 100 times when a flare has gone off and I’ve never seen it harm anyone. I get that it could do, but if it was likely why are the club letting them off at rugby games and how on earth do people with these problems attend games abroad where half the people in the stand are holding flares and they hand them to you as you go into the ground?

You picked your battle JBFC, you were happy to jump upon every post I made for weeks and weeks yet don’t like it when you get it coming back on you.

They've been seen as a health risk, what happens in other countries is irrelevant. Taking drugs isn't illegal in Spain, does that make them harmless? Having a gun isn't illegal in the US, does that make it harmless? 

Of course flares aren't as dangerous as them, but they do house a safety threat and have led to deaths in other countries. Because you maybe haven't seen it, it doesn't mean or can't happen. People hadn't seen anything like the Bradford fie before, and yet that happened. 

Your last point is rather odd, asi rarely care about your posts, except of course when you mention me at random on posts I've not even looked at... 

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10 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

They've been seen as a health risk, what happens in other countries is irrelevant. Taking drugs isn't illegal in Spain, does that make them harmless? Having a gun isn't illegal in the US, does that make it harmless? 

Of course flares aren't as dangerous as them, but they do house a safety threat and have led to deaths in other countries. Because you maybe haven't seen it, it doesn't mean or can't happen. People hadn't seen anything like the Bradford fie before, and yet that happened. 

Your last point is rather odd, asi rarely care about your posts, except of course when you mention me at random on posts I've not even looked at... 

That first paragraph is incredible. You’ve really just drawn comparisons between a flare and a gun? And then gone onto mention the Bradford fire, again a bizarre point in the context of this discussion.

Also, taking drugs isn’t illegal in Spain? I think you might want to double check that.

Edited by BessexRED

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14 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

I’ve made two comments on it, it’s hardly persistent. I enjoy them, I think they add to atmosphere as do 95% of football fans. They are a health risk I’ve been told, though I must’ve been stood or sat in a ground over 100 times when a flare has gone off and I’ve never seen it harm anyone. I get that it could do, but if it was likely why are the club letting them off at rugby games and how on earth do people with these problems attend games abroad where half the people in the stand are holding flares and they hand them to you as you go into the ground?

You picked your battle JBFC, you were happy to jump upon every post I made for weeks and weeks yet don’t like it when you get it coming back on you.

Thanks for the reply. I can see how they add to the atmosphere (tho they do stink!). But I have a friend, City fan, with CF who has been sat next to and near people who've set them off and I can promise you it's not much fun when someone struggles to get their breath. Pretty sure that will have been at one or more of the 100 games you've been at (Fulham away 3/4 years ago?). Maybe that's the difference between us.

I don't know enough about the circumstances at the rugby, but if they were the same type and had the potential to cause the same problems then I think the club is seriously at fault, and probably acting illegally. It doesn't make it right for everyone else to do it.

I suspect that in countries where it isn't banned then you'd know which parts of the ground to avoid. I know that's certainly the case in Italy. If you've got CF you don't go onto the Curva, but you'll be OK elsewhere. 

Have a good summer, and enjoy your smoke filled parties!!

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6 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

That first paragraph is incredible. You’ve really just drawn comparisons between a flare and a gun? And then gone onto mention the Bradford fire, again a bizarre point in the context of this discussion.

Also, taking drugs isn’t illegal in Spain? I think you might want to double check that.

I've drawn comparisons as in they are both things that happen in countries that risk human life which people partake in, fortunately flares are illegal here unlike the examples mentioned. 

The Bradford fire incident shows that people didn't think smoking inside a wooden stadium would be a big issue, until something happened. Much like how you claim to have seen hundreds of flares,  if something bad happens (like the kid killed by one in South America a few years ago) then those hundred games become irrelevant. The risk is still there no matter how many times nothing happens. 

And consumption of drugs isn't illegal in Spain, you can check if you want

Edited by JBFC II

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