Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

spudski

Very interesting season stats...

Recommended Posts

59 minutes ago, spudski said:

Interesting Spud but I have only one minor disagreement with the author. He/she states I include added time, which means that every club will have a slightly different total number of minutes played”.

Every game of football only ever lasts for ninety minutes. Added time replaces that lost through injuries, substitutions, time wasting etc. Thus there is no need for adjustment of the figures. 

I’m going to get off my hobby horse now!

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All well and good Rudolf - but that would mean that any goal scored in stoppage time at the end of the second half would be ignored for the stat....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice find, thanks for sharing. Interesting that we had the highest number of goals in the last 30, and also that we spent the most amount of time drawing, but still finished eighth. 

One conclusion from that might be that the team is fitter now than we are used to seeing down the years, and maybe that it has that bit of mental resilience we’ve often thought missing. Both good things. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It proves that we don't start games well. If you look at the graph, in general the teams that did well were near the top.

If you are having to chase a game, you are prone to making more errors of judgement and more importantly it's far more tiring both physically and mentally.

Add that up over a season and it takes its toll.

Get ahead earlier in a game and you are more relaxed and can play with more freedom. It's also less mentally tiring. 

Also a coach doesn't have to make so many changes during a game, as a winning team is more likely to stick to their game plan.

A lot can be learnt from these stats imo.

Why don't we start well... what's stopping that?

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbf Spudski I daresay that the analyst team have made the management team aware of every imaginable stat! We know that LJ is a disciple to anything that can provide a marginal gain and that stats really interests  him.

My guess is that City are often slow starters at AG because many of the opposition team set up defensively. When the Baggies showed up and tried to go for it they were 3-0 inside 20 mins.....

But.....I’m not a coach, I have no FA. badges so my guess isn’t worth anything!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, spudski said:

It proves that we don't start games well. If you look at the graph, in general the teams that did well were near the top.

If you are having to chase a game, you are prone to making more errors of judgement and more importantly it's far more tiring both physically and mentally.

Add that up over a season and it takes its toll.

Get ahead earlier in a game and you are more relaxed and can play with more freedom. It's also less mentally tiring. 

Also a coach doesn't have to make so many changes during a game, as a winning team is more likely to stick to their game plan.

A lot can be learnt from these stats imo.

Why don't we start well... what's stopping that?

I think some of the cause or problem is the way LJ started to set up. We were very cautious, specially after our losing run, he turned it into a good season but we became pragmatic and more solid. It allowed a few more 1-0's but if we conceded, as you say , Subs became important and it probably explains why we scored most of our goals in the final 30 minutes. 
Amazing to think in a season where you would say our defence was our biggest asset, and one where we we close to the playoff's , we would have spent more time losing than winning.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Tbf Spudski I daresay that the analyst team have made the management team aware of every imaginable stat! We know that LJ is a disciple to anything that can provide a marginal gain and that stats really interests  him.

My guess is that City are often slow starters at AG because many of the opposition team set up defensively. When the Baggies showed up and tried to go for it they were 3-0 inside 20 mins.....

But.....I’m not a coach, I have no FA. badges so my guess isn’t worth anything!

It's the same for every team though RR. 

We are no more a force at home than any others.

32 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I think some of the cause or problem is the way LJ started to set up. We were very cautious, specially after our losing run, he turned it into a good season but we became pragmatic and more solid. It allowed a few more 1-0's but if we conceded, as you say , Subs became important and it probably explains why we scored most of our goals in the final 30 minutes. 
Amazing to think in a season where you would say our defence was our biggest asset, and one where we we close to the playoff's , we would have spent more time losing than winning.

You make some valid points.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, spudski said:

It proves that we don't start games well. If you look at the graph, in general the teams that did well were near the top.

If you are having to chase a game, you are prone to making more errors of judgement and more importantly it's far more tiring both physically and mentally.

Add that up over a season and it takes its toll.

Get ahead earlier in a game and you are more relaxed and can play with more freedom. It's also less mentally tiring. 

Also a coach doesn't have to make so many changes during a game, as a winning team is more likely to stick to their game plan.

A lot can be learnt from these stats imo.

Why don't we start well... what's stopping that?

 

 

Lets be honest most people have said all season, we set up to not lose or go behind the first half, then look to win the 2nd half. A lot of people think it's just that we are poor first half, but it's the tactic, don't concede, stay in the game, look to push more late in the game. It's a really negative outlook, and I imagine one that LJ implemented after last seasons losing run and failure to get in the playoffs after such a good start to the season.

Our goals for really need to be worked on, we are painfully short of where we need to be, but again it's one man upfront set up defensively - often we have a team full of defenders/defensive midfielders with little real attacking threat and it's why we started the season with few shots on goal, and finished with lot's of shots but most just speculative (and long range) efforts.

I am going to go get my tin hat a second - I have to be honest, as I don't travel to away games anymore this season has not been that great for me, yes we were in with something to play for until the last, but our home form (where I see us play) has been negative, defensive, error prone and frankly often plain boring. Very few home games stand out as enjoyable, compared to last season when we played exciting football, this has been pretty boring. I get that we needed to tighten up and sort out the long losing streaks, but feel we went to far in the other direction, playing defensive counter attacking football both home and away. There has to be a spot in between the two styles.

 

 

 

 

EFL_“game_states”,_2018_19_Experimental_3-6-1_-_2019-05-06_17.00.55.png

Football_-_BBC_Sport_-_2019-05-06_17.02.19.png

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think the tactic of setting us up to still be in the game is a valid one against certain sides. I can`t see any reason for it against others though - Ipswich. Wigan, Millwall et al.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, City Ben said:

Nice find, thanks for sharing. Interesting that we had the highest number of goals in the last 30, and also that we spent the most amount of time drawing, but still finished eighth. 

One conclusion from that might be that the team is fitter now than we are used to seeing down the years, and maybe that it has that bit of mental resilience we’ve often thought missing. Both good things. 

We've also only let in just 1 goal all season in the league from minute 80 to Full time which is an incredible stat. I doubt there is a team in Europe that can match that. Only problem is, we have to stop leaking early goals !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other side of the coin is that though a lot of our goals may come in the 2nd half, it's not so simple as we're a 2nd half side IMO.

Equally possible- and it has happened in a number of games- is we have started games better than the score suggested but then conceded a sloppy goal.

Think Middlesbrough at home in August or Sheffield Wednesday at home start of October.

Or for that matter though none conceded, we won at Nottingham Forest 2nd half.. but we in terms of baseline performance were better in the 1st half.

Or Wigan at home, we won the 2nd half but in trtks of control? More in all respects but goals in 1st. Can be a mixed bag.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I’m going to get off my hobby horse now!

Having swiftly gone through the female population of Western Europe he’s only moved onto new targets! Morals of an alley-cat....

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, spudski said:

I posted the one from November, on Friday....it is quite telling.  In a game or fine margins, we have chased too many games.  Last season we stayed in games longer, especially at home, and then as we got stronger we turned 0-0s into 1-0s.  Perversely this is what we’ve done really well away.

the trend hasn’t really changed from November.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I posted the one from November, on Friday....it is quite telling.  In a game or fine margins, we have chased too many games.  Last season we stayed in games longer, especially at home, and then as we got stronger we turned 0-0s into 1-0s.  Perversely this is what we’ve done really well away.

the trend hasn’t really changed from November.

To me, it has felt like a very defined pattern all season at home.

We start brightly, fail to score, lose momentum, concede a goal and then have to chase the game with substitutions.

One of the rare exceptions was against WBA when we started so well that barely anyone could believe what they were seeing. It's clear from 23 home games that we dominated very few teams, scored too few goals and needed emergency formation changes to salvage draws (and a small number of wins).

Our away form has been excellent but I don't think that's the essential foundation for progress (typically, away draws can be enough for promotion). We really need to get the home matches nailed with midfielders and strikers who will get us goals.

  • Like 2
  • Flames 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

I do think the tactic of setting us up to still be in the game is a valid one against certain sides. I can`t see any reason for it against others though - Ipswich. Wigan, Millwall et al.

At home to Millwall we actually had quite a lot of shots first half- 2 of them pretty close calls from memory and another that hit woodwork.

Their (Millwall's) tactics played a part too, but one up front at home isn't necessarily setup to contain.

Some other games, well why we  there's 2 teams on the pitch- think some can sometimes forget this.

Overall we absolutely need better home results but 13 shots per game at home? Not especially negative. There were a few games which stick out as especially dire- Preston and Ipswich. In some aspects, Birmingham, Leeds and Millwall, which perhaps can skew the overall picture a bit at times.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Within an hour of posting this, the Bristol Post do the same. I'm always astonished how much work forum posters do for that lot 🤣

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Redwhitepurple said:

I literally looked straight at bottom of table not top and what a suprise we aint far off

Is that why you can't see us on the league table then? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

We've also only let in just 1 goal all season in the league from minute 80 to Full time which is an incredible stat. I doubt there is a team in Europe that can match that. Only problem is, we have to stop leaking early goals !!

To be a complete pedant, it's actually twice - Leeds and Wigan - but the point is well made, we finish much more strongly than we start games. Lots of good theories on here, we don't start games well, but what baffles me most under LJ is the huge difference between starting a game and coming on as a sub, for the same player!

There's a group of  3-4 creative players - Eliasson, O'Dowda, Paterson, Taylor - who when each given a chance to start are often  anonymous for 45 minutes and hauled off and replaced by another in that group, who has a blinder and helps rescue us. They'll then get the next start but be anonymous, and the cycle continues.

This phenomenon is utterly bizarre and must be infuriating for LJ, unless his instructions are part of the problem. O'Dowda is a master of this wild inconsistency between starting and sub, I think last October he kept looking lively as sub, then would start and be invisible for an hour, would be sub next game, rinse and repeat.

Eliasson is now the test for this paradox and he is clearly a key player for us but is another who keeps bouncing between starting and being a supersub. LJ clearly doesn't trust them to play their natural attacking game when given the chance to start, but when we need something he lets them come on and play to their strengths.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Olé said:

To be a complete pedant, it's actually twice - Leeds and Wigan - but the point is well made, we finish much more strongly than we start games. Lots of good theories on here, we don't start games well, but what baffles me most under LJ is the huge difference between starting a game and coming on as a sub, for the same player!

There's a group of  3-4 creative players - Eliasson, O'Dowda, Paterson, Taylor - who when each given a chance to start are often  anonymous for 45 minutes and hauled off and replaced by another in that group, who has a blinder and helps rescue us. They'll then get the next start but be anonymous, and the cycle continues.

This phenomenon is utterly bizarre and must be infuriating for LJ, unless his instructions are part of the problem. O'Dowda is a master of this wild inconsistency between starting and sub, I think last October he kept looking lively as sub, then would start and be invisible for an hour, would be sub next game, rinse and repeat.

Eliasson is now the test for this paradox and he is clearly a key player for us but is another who keeps bouncing between starting and being a supersub. LJ clearly doesn't trust them to play their natural attacking game when given the chance to start, but when we need something he lets them come on and play to their strengths.

Being able to put high-energy players on against tiring defences is bound to have an impact, and not entirely surprising that some players have more impact in that role than they do starting.  You have to have options on the bench, and the knowledge that we can bring on Taylor, Palmer or Eliasson if things need turning around has been one of the positives of the season for me.  Increasingly I feel that the supersub role is a valid one in its own right, and though it must be frustrating for the player, it is a real advantage for the squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this an explanation for the atmosphere at home being so poor this season?

I know we should be willing the team onto victory not waiting for them to do it before chirping up but the reality of English football means that in 95% of grounds that won't be the case. Ashton Gate naturally is always more buoyant when we're winning, West Brom at home the atmosphere was very impressive and we were winning for over 90 minutes in it.

Food for thought maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, spudski said:

It proves that we don't start games well. If you look at the graph, in general the teams that did well were near the top.

If you are having to chase a game, you are prone to making more errors of judgement and more importantly it's far more tiring both physically and mentally.

Add that up over a season and it takes its toll.

Get ahead earlier in a game and you are more relaxed and can play with more freedom. It's also less mentally tiring. 

Also a coach doesn't have to make so many changes during a game, as a winning team is more likely to stick to their game plan.

A lot can be learnt from these stats imo.

Why don't we start well... what's stopping that?

Why don't we start well... what's stopping that?

The opposition ? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Why don't we start well... what's stopping that?

The opposition ? 

Or lack of support for front man due to selection and formation? Yes we can score with any member of the team, but difficult when we spend most of the game lumping the ball to an isolated 9 when at home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dave36 said:

Or lack of support for front man due to selection and formation? Yes we can score with any member of the team, but difficult when we spend most of the game lumping the ball to an isolated 9 when at home.

One up front is fine, but this is a fairly key bit IMO- lack of support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lack of movement in and into final third.

Also the speed at which everything is done.

Funny how we can find that speed and energy when chasing a game.

We hardly ever start with that amount of energy. Way too cautious imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...