Max - What to do.....

[Steve Watts]

Max has obviously come on leaps and bounds this season but there is a dilemma I feel on how to manage his progress going forward.  I think we'll extend Niki's deal, but whether or not we get another keeper in as well remains to be seen.

Max has proven himself to be a potential top top goalkeeper, so I'm personally thinking we try and get him a loan to either a top league one team or maybe a lower champ if anyone needs a keeper, like we did with Zak.  I'd say the former is the more likely option.

This would give Max a chance to work on improving his command of the area - arguably the only thing he is really lacking in.  A season of mens football honing these skills will leave us with a number one keeper for as long as we or he decides.

Any thoughts?

[TonyTonyTony]

At the age he is, he needs to be playing. If Nikki is our number one, then I’d send Max out on loan as you suggest with a view to him taking the reigns maybe next year

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Max has obviously come on leaps and bounds this season but there is a dilemma I feel on how to manage his progress going forward.  I think we'll extend Niki's deal, but whether or not we get another keeper in as well remains to be seen.

Max has proven himself to be a potential top top goalkeeper, so I'm personally thinking we try and get him a loan to either a top league one team or maybe a lower champ if anyone needs a keeper, like we did with Zak.  I'd say the former is the more likely option.

This would give Max a chance to work on improving his command of the area - arguably the only thing he is really lacking in.  A season of mens football honing these skills will leave us with a number one keeper for as long as we or he decides.

Any thoughts?

A loan in the Championship would be ideal, let him make his mistakes and learn at another club’s expense .

The problem I see with this is who would want this rookie keeper when there are hundreds of experienced players available to them for this very important position ?

The lad would need to be really exceptional to interest a League club as their number one and , whilst he’s good , he’s not at a Prem club or played at International level in his age group, nothing to really mark him out as worth a punt .

If next season is the one where the club really want to go for it then , we need a top number 1 between the sticks . 

As good as Max is , he’s not the finished article .

 

[RedM]

The trouble is with Nikki is that he is picking up injuries quite frequently, I wouldn’t like to send Max out and not be able to recall him as you can guarantee you will need to. Obviously it all depends on Frankie or getting in another as you can’t really not have a keeper on the bench.

Max will also be able to argue that he has played quite a few games this year, and important top end Championship games too, not just the odd cup run. I know he isn’t the finished article, but I think after playing so much he will see League One as a drop down, and who’s to say he will get picked every game there anyway?

I think we will be looking to offload Frankie, keep Nikki as the back up and bring in a experienced ( but not old as in David James) keeper who will be with us for years to come as the main keeper. So older than Max and younger than Nikki and better than Frankie type. Then the season after ( I’m getting way ahead here) we could have Max has back up ( depending on what happens if we loan him out). 

[Riaz]

Loan him to a top League One team or a team like Luton in the championship.

Keep maenpaa for another year and bring in a quality goalkeeper. Actually invest in a decent goalie tho. Its long overdue.

[Negan]

Agree with others. Loan him out to a league 1 team for the season, Rotherham is a good shout seeing as they had Fulhams keeper on loan for the season who will be going back now. Bring in the Yank who's off to Man City  for the season and have Nikki as back up. We can't rely on him for a full season due to age/injuries now, as good a keeper as he is. This will then hopefully give Max the chance to prove himself and step up to be our number one the following season. He's not far off it to be fair. 

[TBW]

Take the chance and let him continue his progress here. A quality summer with the backing of the manager could spur him on immensely.

[Lez]

From what I've seen from max I would say he is an excellent shot stopper but the rest of his game isn't yet up to the level needed. Loan him out.

[EnderMB]

I think we messed up big-time by not signing Zack Steffen. We could've wrapped this position up with a Premier League quality keeper, and now Man City have him.

IMO, Max needs solid game time, and to prove himself at the highest level possible. For that reason, I'd say he should either go out on loan at the higher end of League 1 or in the Championship. If that's not possible, he should fight with Niki for the #1 spot.

With that being said, if we sign another keeper, we're essentially telling Max that his loan deal is to either be #2, or to try and find a move elsewhere. It's a tricky one, and all dependent on who we sign and if we're signing a long-term #1.

[Chappers]

Keep him as number 2 and play him in cup games. Risk with loaning himout is that he sits on the bench elsewhere, and we can’t recall him. 

[reddogkev]

Personally, I'd let Max decide.  Make it clear that he will not be no.1 (as we'd expect), and let him decide if he wants to stay and earn the right to be the definite no.2 GK, or go out on loan - most likely league one.  If he wants to stay and develop here, 'd be happy to have him between the sticks as and when required, whilst continuing to improve under our coaching.

 

[Steve Watts]

8 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

I think we messed up big-time by not signing Zack Steffen. We could've wrapped this position up with a Premier League quality keeper, and now Man City have him.

IMO, Max needs solid game time, and to prove himself at the highest level possible. For that reason, I'd say he should either go out on loan at the higher end of League 1 or in the Championship. If that's not possible, he should fight with Niki for the #1 spot.

With that being said, if we sign another keeper, we're essentially telling Max that his loan deal is to either be #2, or to try and find a move elsewhere. It's a tricky one, and all dependent on who we sign and if we're signing a long-term #1.

I'm not sure you can say we  messed up big time.  His club refused to sell and by the time they agreed to Man City were officially interested.  Not sure any player would choose us over them!  Sometimes these things just aren't possible for whatever reason.  Doesn't mean anyone has done something wrong.

[RedM]

8 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Personally, I'd let Max decide.  Make it clear that he will not be no.1 (as we'd expect), and let him decide if he wants to stay and earn the right to be the definite no.2 GK, or go out on loan - most likely league one.  If he wants to stay and develop here, 'd be happy to have him between the sticks as and when required, whilst continuing to improve under our coaching.

 

I understand what you are meaning but wouldn’t that pretty much be what we’ve had this year and it hasn’t been quite good enough, Nikki No1 and Max coming in when needed, and he has been called upon too much in relation to his experience. 

As far as loans go, I don’t think it’s quite as cosy and friendly as that, if the club wants to loan you out you do it and don’t question the decision. If you aren’t open to a loan then your ‘pathway’ is considerably blocked. This is from personal knowledge of a young player who has taken loans he wasn’t keen on. 

[Pickle Rick]

Championship loan ideally, otherwise a expected-to-be top L1 side.

Needs a full season and could hopefully come back as our first choice. By that time Nikki will be 35 or so and may be an excellent competitor/mentor.

[reddogkev]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

I understand what you are meaning but wouldn’t that pretty much be what we’ve had this year and it hasn’t been quite good enough, Nikki No1 and Max coming in when needed, and he has been called upon too much in relation to his experience. 

As far as loans go, I don’t think it’s quite as cosy and friendly as that, if the club wants to loan you out you do it and don’t question the decision. If you aren’t open to a loan then your ‘pathway’ is considerably blocked. This is from personal knowledge of a young player who has taken loans he wasn’t keen on. 

The loans are interesting to consider, because as you have referenced, what if quite simply a young player doesn't want to have a loan to another club?  The player might fear that they're falling out of favour at the club, or worry that they will be overtaken by someone else.  If I had sampled life in the first-team, I would want to stay and fight for my place.

I reckon we will retain Max at City next season, he's done enough to show he has the quality for Championship football and now has more experience to draw upon.

[RedM]

9 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

The loans are interesting to consider, because as you have referenced, what if quite simply a young player doesn't want to have a loan to another club?  The player might fear that they're falling out of favour at the club, or worry that they will be overtaken by someone else.  If I had sampled life in the first-team, I would want to stay and fight for my place.

I reckon we will retain Max at City next season, he's done enough to show he has the quality for Championship football and now has more experience to draw upon.

We could of course do the option of releasing both Frankie and Nikki, spending biggish for the new number one keeper who will be here for years as I mentioned and have Max on the bench. Max would then get the chance to lear from him and both could be coached here. We would have 2 keepers and promote a youngster for the u23’s etc. Max could play the cup games etc. At the moment we are paying for 4 keepers with the loan so we can cut that by 2. Quality not quantity. 

This is just another option, we are all assuming Nikki will be staying, maybe he won’t?

[Clutton Caveman]

I think Max needs to spend the close season in the gym and beef up (as Bobby Reid did). this together with coaching on dealing with crosses and some positional play could turn him into a first team regular. He certainly can stop shots

[Ohbasso]

Max needs to be playing as much as possible so the best option for him and the club is to let him have a whole season on loan somewhere. I’d even let him go to league 2 if it meant he was guaranteed to be number one all season.

As others have said we could then keep Niki and sign another keeper to battle for number one. Whoever’s better out of Sesay and Wollacott can cover the bench incase of injuries.

[Mr Popodopolous]

My initial thought was to keep him and one of Maenpaa/Fielding to compete- let's not forget he has played a lot of his career to date Non League, something I query development wise.

Loan to Barnsley, Lution, Wigan- someone like that?

A side who likely will be bottom 3rd or lower mid table but not cut adrift- good enough to compete in a lot of individual games, with reasonable but not overly intricate football- could be mutually beneficial maybe. Wigan certainly maybe in need of one- their goalie back to Brighton from loan.

[EnderMB]

33 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I'm not sure you can say we  messed up big time.  His club refused to sell and by the time they agreed to Man City were officially interested.  Not sure any player would choose us over them!  Sometimes these things just aren't possible for whatever reason.  Doesn't mean anyone has done something wrong.

Refused to sell because we didn't offer enough money.

Sure, Man City will always be a more attractive prospect, but there was no indication that they were interested before us - otherwise the press over there wouldn't have been so keen to interview him about us.

In many ways, Man City putting up solid money for him is a good sign that we're scouting the right players, but I really wish we had offered more money to seal the deal. It's highly unlikely he'll be at Man City anyway - he'll either go out on loan or will be #2/3. I think he would've signed with us if first-team football in the second tier was guaranteed.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I'd make him first choice next season.  He's only two years younger than England's goalkeeper in the World Cup!  The experience this season will have been invaluable for him, and I think he has the potential to be an outstanding keeper.  I wouldn't have any hesitation starting with him between the sticks next season, and I certainly wouldn't want to loan him to another Championship side!!

[And Its Smith]

I really cannot see him going to a League one club as number one. It will be League two if he is wants to start every week

[Eastside Moonwalker]

I'd loan Walsh, Max and Eisa out to L1 team or a team like Luton or Barnsley

[Lez]

40 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My initial thought was to keep him and one of Maenpaa/Fielding to compete- let's not forget he has played a lot of his career to date Non League, something I query development wise.

Loan to Barnsley, Lution, Wigan- someone like that?

A side who likely will be bottom 3rd or lower mid table but not cut adrift- good enough to compete in a lot of individual games, with reasonable but not overly intricate football- could be mutually beneficial maybe. Wigan certainly maybe in need of one- their goalie back to Brighton from loan.

With respect, Barnsley have Davies Luton have Stech and Wigan are trying to sign Walton on a perm....there is zero chance that these clubs are going to look to max as their number 1....Not at this stage of his career.

A league 1 or 2 loan would be useful but I do worry about him in these direct physical leagues.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Championship loan ideally, otherwise a expected-to-be top L1 side.

Needs a full season and could hopefully come back as our first choice. By that time Nikki will be 35 or so and may be an excellent competitor/mentor.

I'm not sure what championship club would take Max as first choice when he clearly isn't that here to be honest.

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

Max has obviously come on leaps and bounds this season but there is a dilemma I feel on how to manage his progress going forward.  I think we'll extend Niki's deal, but whether or not we get another keeper in as well remains to be seen.

Max has proven himself to be a potential top top goalkeeper, so I'm personally thinking we try and get him a loan to either a top league one team or maybe a lower champ if anyone needs a keeper, like we did with Zak.  I'd say the former is the more likely option.

This would give Max a chance to work on improving his command of the area - arguably the only thing he is really lacking in.  A season of mens football honing these skills will leave us with a number one keeper for as long as we or he decides.

Any thoughts?

The bit in bold confuses me to be honest! How do you prove to have potential?

All I've seen and especially Sunday is a keeper who gets bullied when the ball is in the air in our box, poor distribution that led to at least 2 chances for Hull and a couple of routine one on one saves, he doesn't appear big enough or commanding enough to be number one. Just because "he's one of our own" doesn't make him that special.

For what its worth I would probably get rid of Fielding and Maenpaa and bring in an established Championship keeper who could help max next season, if no improvement then I would get rid of him as well

[Numero Uno]

We know he’s got the shot stopping ability but as others have said a Summer in the gym and confidence to come for the crosses and dominate the area is probably what’s needed to get him to the standard we are looking for.

A loan would be ideal at this stage, perhaps a half season loan in League 1/2? A young keeper with 14 or so games at Championship level where he hasn’t let himself down has to be attractive to someone in the lower leagues?

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, frenchred said:

The bit in bold confuses me to be honest! How do you prove to have potential?

All I've seen and especially Sunday is a keeper who gets bullied when the ball is in the air in our box, poor distribution that led to at least 2 chances for Hull and a couple of routine one on one saves, he doesn't appear big enough or commanding enough to be number one. Just because "he's one of our own" doesn't make him that special.

For what its worth I would probably get rid of Fielding and Maenpaa and bring in an established Championship keeper who could help max next season, if no improvement then I would get rid of him as well

The proof he has potential was demonstrated in his performance at Villa Park. However to prove he has the ability long term he needs to make adjustments and improvements in his game that can only be made by regular game time at professional level .....probably elsewhere. Collecting splinters up his backside and playing once a month for the 23’s won’t realise the improvements he needs to make!!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, EnderMB said:

Refused to sell because we didn't offer enough money.

Sure, Man City will always be a more attractive prospect, but there was no indication that they were interested before us - otherwise the press over there wouldn't have been so keen to interview him about us.

In many ways, Man City putting up solid money for him is a good sign that we're scouting the right players, but I really wish we had offered more money to seal the deal. It's highly unlikely he'll be at Man City anyway - he'll either go out on loan or will be #2/3. I think he would've signed with us if first-team football in the second tier was guaranteed.

Not sure on the work permit issues, but Man City in a position to buy someone for several million and then loan him out to countries that have less stringent rules, whilst he gains more international caps and likelihood of gaining WP.

Anyone with thoughts on this.  

We don’t know that Man City weren’t in the frame when our “rumoured by Berhalter” bid came in.

[EnderMB]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure on the work permit issues, but Man City in a position to buy someone for several million and then loan him out to countries that have less stringent rules, whilst he gains more international caps and likelihood of gaining WP.

Anyone with thoughts on this.  

We don’t know that Man City weren’t in the frame when our “rumoured by Berhalter” bid came in.

When we were out of the race for Steffen I had assumed it was down to work permit issues.

IIRC, the work permit rules around non-EU players are that the player must have played at least 60% of their national teams matches within that year. Where this gets tricky is that I don't know whether this includes friendly matches or not. Since the US didn't quality for the World Cup, I don't think they've played a competitive match for the last year - otherwise Steffen would quality for a work permit as he's got 8 caps in the last year.

I assume it's why they bought him in January and then kept him in the US, because it allows him more time to establish himself as the main keeper for the US. With that being said, since we need a keeeper now, there's no reason why we couldn't have done a similar deal last summer before Man City pounced.