Taylor, Wright and O'Dowda

[LondonBristolian]

38 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I find it strange that some people don't rate Wright. I wouldn't be against selling him if we are bringing in a quicker, more dynamic defender who can bring the ball out.

But Bailey is clearly very good at being a no nonsense, solid central defender at this level. He is clearly championship level. 

I think he is a better defender than Baker. I don't see what Baker is better at. I think Baker only gets in sometimes over Wright because he is left footed and adds some balance to that side.

I've been a City fan since 1990 and I honestly think there have only been, at most, five seasons in that time where Bailey Wright would not walk into the first team. 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Reid and Bryan fetched tidy sums in their final years. 

Agree with what you say about cost to recruit replacements, but I’m not sure we need to if Wright (Vyner / Moore) and Taylor (Semenyo /Eisa ?????) leave. 

I wonder if that is part of the thinking - i.e. we need Wright and Taylor for another year but, once that year is up, there are likely to be players within the development system who can take their place.

I reckon we'd need to replace Wright or Taylor now but, a year from now, you would hope the players you mention will be ready to step in. 

[EmissionImpossible]

3 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Matty Taylor has scored 6 goals in 60 appearances.  Is that right?

9 in 71 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I wonder if that is part of the thinking - i.e. we need Wright and Taylor for another year but, once that year is up, there are likely to be players within the development system who can take their place.

I reckon we'd need to replace Wright or Taylor now but, a year from now, you would hope the players you mention will be ready to step in. 

Possibly, but if you sign Kalas, the need for Wright / Baker falls.

If we sign a starting striker, with Diedhiou, Weimann and Semenyo, the need for Taylor falls.

All guesswork though

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

50 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

9 in 71 

Not starts surely? I assume that most of those 71 were 20 min sub appearances.

[Red7]

23 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

he is also a bit of a pr1ck 

Some Sag habits die hard...

 

[RedM]

15 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Not starts surely? I assume that most of those 71 were 20 min sub appearances.

If that. I’m sure he’s come on a few times with 4 minutes to go etc. I appreciate he’s not likely to be the answer and seems to have more impact as a sub but people have to think of him in minutes played rather than matches. It’s not all about scoring for him, he does lots off the ball to make space and bring others into the game.

Don’t know if it’s enough but sometimes it’s better the Devil you know.

[bristolcitysweden]

I would be happy to keep Callum. The two others are hardly a loss. 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, RedM said:

If that. I’m sure he’s come on a few times with 4 minutes to go etc. I appreciate he’s not likely to be the answer and seems to have more impact as a sub but people have to think of him in minutes played rather than matches. It’s not all about scoring for him, he does lots off the ball to make space and bring others into the game.

Don’t know if it’s enough but sometimes it’s better the Devil you know.

....and as a team we score a goal every 51 minutes with MT on the pitch and 69 with Fam, and 71 with Weimann.

[Mr Popodopolous]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

....and as a team we score a goal every 51 minutes with MT on the pitch and 69 with Fam, and 71 with Weimann.

This is it.

Taylor has the 10 assists in the League in his time here- decent technically as well as the intense energy.

Worth keeping as a squad player on ability alone IMO- to say nothing of the fact that he is relatively low cost. Strikers are primarily judged on goals but these days, far from the only relevant criteria.

[Pezo]

I ould like to see COD stay, I think he has great ability and will go on to be better. 

Wright and Taylor depends on who we bring in, if we get Kalas, Dasilva and a striker then I don't see the need for Taylor and Wright. It's a bit cutthroat as they have both been excellent in service to the club but the tag I keep seeing is "relentless in pursuit of excellence" and neither of those 2 are going to be excellent at this level.

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

The only thing I would say about that stat is that more goals are usually statistically scored nearer the end of games. So anyone coming off the bench should usually have a better minutes per team goal ratio than those that start most games.

I think if we bring in a striker to compete with Diedhiou then I would sell Taylor. A new quality pacy number 9, Diedhiou, Semenyo and Weimann all as options would mean we don't really need Taylor imo.

Yeah, agree JD, very true Re goals later on, but it still shows his impact on the team, and what he offers beyond pure goals.  I’ve never been his biggest fan, but I do recognise other things he brings.

But it is time to push on, we need more quality.  Again, although I appreciate what an unselfish role Fam plays, I wouldn’t think too hard of moving him on to bring in a better striker, more suited to the style LJ wants to play.

Probably some tough decisions thus summer, and I think even Frankie being released shows there won’t be too much sentiment going around.

Quite excited for this summer....but careful not to get too excited, we are still competing with lots of other bigger teams.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yep. I just think though it is so hard to find a quality on the shoulder type striker. That is the type I want, and I think LJ wants.

Assombalonga to me is maybe a slight upgrade on Fam, but not a lot in it. And he isn't the type I think we should be looking at. 15m? No thanks. 

 

Hogan, the obvious one, but had injury issues.  

Maguire at Preston, has good movement too, but dodgy hamstrings.

Maupay, too dear.

McBurnie, probably too dear, and not a true on the shoulder striker, but willing channel runner and clever movement.

12 minutes ago, Lucan said:

 

Ludicrous stat.  Max O’Leary also has 71, does that mean he contributes a comparable amount to the attack as Fam.? 

It might be in your eyes, It’s one form of comparison of different players in this case Fam, Andi and Matty.  It’s not meant to be all telling, the only thing, but it could be a factor.  It doesn’t take into account Weimann playing wide for half the season do it has its flaws.

if you want to look at things in one dimension, that’s up to you.  It’s for debate.  The analysts will look for all kinds of trends in the data.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Lucan said:

If we are cherry picking weird stats to defend “Mr Bang Average” Matty Taylor

- For someone who supposedly digs in and gets involved he has a lower tackles won percentage than Weimann , Patto and COD

- he wins less in the air and the ground than COD, Patto, Weimann and 

- he crosses the ball worse than Weimann

- he gets caught off side way more than our other strikers

 

The message is, stats can be used to demean a player, or as an attempt to polish a turd

 

anyone with half a brain can see MT is not good enough

You should read my posts on MT then....just saying his contribution is more than however many goals in a proportionally larger number of games.  I’m not a fan but recognise his game for us is not in a role that he had at Rovers.   

[Davefevs]

Just now, Lucan said:

Fair enough. You are right in that goals alone are not the only thing.

But good enough for where City want to be? Not even close in my eyes

Nope, nor is Fam either.  Can we afford to have a £5.3m back-up and a new stellar striker?  Not sure.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Lucan said:

I guess this is a problem with the City policy.  We are reluctant (understandably)to part with the money to land a Grabban, Assombalonga etc so need to explore more afordable markets.  And that means that we are always liable to have a few guys in the squad at any time who are punts that didn’t quite make it.

Coupled with the fact that every year we lose some of our best players as they were only in on loan...

... every year we fail to move up, we run the risk of having a poor recruitment year and hitting a huge slide 

That final sentence is the key.  You are right, you are one poor summer’s recruitment away from a slide.  Standing still is going backwards.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

The only thing I would say about that stat is that more goals are usually statistically scored nearer the end of games. So anyone coming off the bench should usually have a better minutes per team goal ratio than those that start most games.

I love a game of Devil’s advocate... 

When does a striker get a game from the bench, invariably? When you are going more attacking and chasing a goal of course; the ultomate pressure scenario. You don’t often lead 1-0 and bring on a striker. 

To that extent whilst playing down Taylor by saying he plays in the more impactful minutes he’s also playing in the desperation minutes where stakes and pressure is high. 

My own opinion on Taylor is he is seriously under-utilised. There are so many games where his guile, attitude and skin-crawling antics would have been game changing from the start.

I do think there are occasions LJ sometimes backs his players too much. Ipswich  or Wigan at home; let a rabid Matty Taylor loose for 60m, I reckon the result would be different.. hindsight of course. 

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

The only thing I would say about that stat is that more goals are usually statistically scored nearer the end of games. So anyone coming off the bench should usually have a better minutes per team goal ratio than those that start most games.

I love a game of Devil’s advocate... 

When does a striker get a game from the bench, invariably? When you are going more attacking and chasing a goal of course; the ultomate pressure scenario. You don’t often lead 1-0 and bring on a striker. 

To that extent whilst playing down Taylor by saying he plays in the more impactful minutes he’s also playing in the desperation minutes where stakes and pressure is high. 

My own opinion on Taylor is he is seriously under-utilised. There are so many games where his guile, attitude and skin-crawling antics would have been game changing from the start.

I do think there are occasions LJ sometimes backs his players too much. Ipswich  or Wigan at home; let a rabid Matty Taylor loose for 60m, I reckon the result would be different.. hindsight of course. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Lucan said:

Fair enough. You are right in that goals alone are not the only thing.

But good enough for where City want to be? Not even close in my eyes

10 assists not useful? For his fee, think he's done fine- wouldn't be averse to selling him if it helps us fund upgrades elsewhere in particular up top and same goes for Diedhiou.

Still think at this time he's a useful, reasonably affordable squad option to have.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Lucan said:

He doesn't have 10 assists.

His fee is irrelevant to the question of whether he is good enough.

 

Over his time here I'm sure he does- 9 maybe?

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Lucan said:

I assumed you were just referencing this season...

9 assists in 2.5 years isn't much to shout about for a forward I think

Squad player- remember his game time isn't the most by any stretch.

Okay it's 7 goals and 10 assists in 66 games- but only 23 of these were starts. Didn't realise he was 29 either, maybe based on age profile alone and profit that can be reinvested time to sell on! His conversion rate in fact isn't the best either- 8.48 shots per goal, though again the fact he is frequently a sub doesn't help.

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 hours ago, Lucan said:

 

... every year we fail to move up, we run the risk of having a poor recruitment year and hitting a huge slide 

 

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That final sentence is the key.  You are right, you are one poor summer’s recruitment away from a slide.  Standing still is going backwards.

Brighton had exactly that, but it didn't derail them, long-term. Coming up into the Championship in 2012 they finished:

10th, 4th, 6th then 20th.

They then fired their head coach, and their head of recruitment  (or CEO). Then they went:

3rd, and 2nd.

 

It's a concern but not necessarily going to be catastrophic - not for a strong club with strong direction and leadership. Bristol City prior to SL and the modernised ground would've collapsed at this level after such a summer/season, I like to think we are not so fragile now.

Brighton endured some turbulence and heartbreak (three play off failures, including one to rivals C. Palace) before finally reaching the point where they were too strong for this division. 

[Major Isewater]

14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is it.

Taylor has the 10 assists in the League in his time here- decent technically as well as the intense energy.

Worth keeping as a squad player on ability alone IMO- to say nothing of the fact that he is relatively low cost. Strikers are primarily judged on goals but these days, far from the only relevant criteria.

It’s not so much the costs as giving

a) the player more game time as he approaches the autumn of his career.He might be a regular starter at another club .

 

b) The chance to , perhaps, improve on the scoring rate giving another player his place in the squad.Next season bringing on Semenyo instead of Taylor.

 

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

 

Brighton had exactly that, but it didn't derail them, long-term. Coming up into the Championship in 2012 they finished:

10th, 4th, 6th then 20th.

They then fired their head coach, and their head of recruitment  (or CEO). Then they went:

3rd, and 2nd.

 

It's a concern but not necessarily going to be catastrophic - not for a strong club with strong direction and leadership. Bristol City prior to SL and the modernised ground would've collapsed at this level after such a summer/season, I like to think we are not so fragile now.

Brighton endured some turbulence and heartbreak (three play off failures, including one to rivals C. Palace) before finally reaching the point where they were too strong for this division. 

So we fire MA and LJ and jobs a good un ?