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Seneca the Younger

Europa League Discussions (Merged)

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25 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I struggle to get too excited by English dominance given the lack of English players. Looks more like the mercenary league every year.

Understand that. You could add lack of English managers and owners as well. TBH the Premier League does little for me and can’t be arsed to watch many matches any more.

With Europe though, it’s still about ‘our’ Clubs flying the English League flag with the (predominantly!) English fans. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

I dunno.....did we hate the Italians or Spanish when their clubs were dominating Europe?

Ok not exactly hate but bloody well disliking the fact that 4 English teams are in the finals and they have to suck it up this year, also i didn't like watching the Spanish and Italians win either when they were ruling European competitions, I want to see English teams, whoever they are win in Europe.

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I did want all 4 English clubs to make it to the final of each Competition, until Chelsea’s Christensen went off injured and seemingly because they don’t get along Sarri instead of doing what every other manager would do (for the good of the team) and replace like for like and bring Cahill on he completely ignored him and brought on another RB and shifted the other RB into central defence! I thought it was bang out of order and you could tell by the look on Cahill’s face he couldn’t either, then 5mins later Azpilecueta should of seen red. Luckily for them they scraped through but I was hoping they’d lose out solely due to Sarri’s petulance, by the sounds of things Chelsea fans aren’t too keen on him so imo he’ll be gone in the summer.

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7 hours ago, Med/MadHatter said:

4 English teams through to the 2 finals, get in! I bet Europe are hating us :laugh:

Well, this Spanish newspaper seem to positively celebrating the fact.

Screenshot_20190510-064152~2.png

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All four teams in the final have lost to wolves this season too. (Liverpool in the fa Cup). Something my local friends have jumped on very quickly. 

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9 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I struggle to get too excited by English dominance given the lack of English players. Looks more like the mercenary league every year.

Mercenary it is.

The teams in question do play football in differing manners and are coached by brilliant coaches. These coaches are having a favourable effect on football in this Country. Football is being viewed in a different manner. Positives to be sat alongside the negatives which are there.

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Reading a fair few of the BBC HYS Comments and the arrogance of some of the media is a reason I struggle to warm to our big clubs in Europe. Having said that, I don't read foreign media- I know though I have a strong antipathy towards PSG, Real Madrid- sheikhs and arrogance respectively, Bayern- arrogance and competition killing domestically, Juventus- Calciopoli, AC Milan- owned by a hedge fund, Inter Milan- owned by the Chinese.

Whinging, bitching about the location of the EL finals- admittedly Baku is a bit of a stretch, a problem, especially given no direct flights from London at that time!

Newsflash- game is global, if you don't like it don't go. Madrid though, no cause for complaints there- these were decided a decent amount of time in advance.

The (selective)? ignorance of some on there too- 'Azerbaijan is not in Europe', well neither is Israel geographically speaking but nobody complains about them being in UEFA.

6,000 tickets apiece in a 69,000 stadium is a joke though, beyond a joke!

Now Azerbaijan has a very questionable human rights record FWIW. So too do the Sheikhs at Man City, yet who complains? What's good for the goose- the Sheikhs are probably worse rights wise tbh.

The one I don't get about Europe though is Kazakhstan- that literally is Central Asia so why they're in UEFA!?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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7 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

I did want all 4 English clubs to make it to the final of each Competition, until Chelsea’s Christensen went off injured and seemingly because they don’t get along Sarri instead of doing what every other manager would do (for the good of the team) and replace like for like and bring Cahill on he completely ignored him and brought on another RB and shifted the other RB into central defence! I thought it was bang out of order and you could tell by the look on Cahill’s face he couldn’t either, then 5mins later Azpilecueta should of seen red. Luckily for them they scraped through but I was hoping they’d lose out solely due to Sarri’s petulance, by the sounds of things Chelsea fans aren’t too keen on him so imo he’ll be gone in the summer.

I can't have too much sympathy with Cahill. He was told last August by Sarri that he would not be part of his plans and could leave. Cahill decided or realised that he would not earn the same money elsewhere so sat on his contract at Chelsea. No sympathy.

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14 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I can't have too much sympathy with Cahill. He was told last August by Sarri that he would not be part of his plans and could leave. Cahill decided or realised that he would not earn the same money elsewhere so sat on his contract at Chelsea. No sympathy.

Then what is the point of him being on the bench in the first place? I was just shocked Sarri overlooked him for the benefit of the team as a whole, luckily for him he got away with it, just.

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43 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reading a fair few of the BBC HYS Comments and the arrogance of some of the media is a reason I struggle to warm to our big clubs in Europe. Having said that, I don't read foreign media- I know though I have a strong antipathy towards PSG, Real Madrid- sheikhs and arrogance respectively, Bayern- arrogance and competition killing domestically, Juventus- Calciopoli, AC Milan- owned by a hedge fund, Inter Milan- owned by the Chinese.

Whinging, bitching about the location of the EL finals- admittedly Baku is a bit of a stretch, a problem, especially given no direct flights from London at that time!

Newsflash- game is global, if you don't like it don't go. Madrid though, no cause for complaints there- these were decided a decent amount of time in advance.

The (selective)? ignorance of some on there too- 'Azerbaijan is not in Europe', well neither is Israel geographically speaking but nobody complains about them being in UEFA.

6,000 tickets apiece in a 69,000 stadium is a joke though, beyond a joke!

Now Azerbaijan has a very questionable human rights record FWIW. So too do the Sheikhs at Man City, yet who complains? What's good for the goose- the Sheikhs are probably worse rights wise tbh.

The one I don't get about Europe though is Kazakhstan- that literally is Central Asia so why they're in UEFA!?

One difference about the Azers in a football context is that they will not allow anyone with Armenian links into the country. Plenty of Armenians play football and Arsenal have a very influential one at that.

I do actually complain about Israel being considered European in a football sense just as I do the ex Russian republics in Asia, and even Turkey bearing in mind only 3% of that big old lump is actually European.

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24 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

One difference about the Azers in a football context is that they will not allow anyone with Armenian links into the country. Plenty of Armenians play football and Arsenal have a very influential one at that.

I do actually complain about Israel being considered European in a football sense just as I do the ex Russian republics in Asia, and even Turkey bearing in mind only 3% of that big old lump is actually European.

I forgot about the whole Azerbaijan-Armenia issue- good point, that could be a problem. I believe an exemption could be possible for Mkhitaryan however- Qatar will allow Israelis in for World Cup, despite the usual diplomatic status so perhaps sport can get a one off exemption for these things. Article from a few weeks ago but we'll see I guess.

https://www.90min.com/posts/6347037-henrikh-mkhitaryan-to-receive-support-from-uefa-to-obtain-visa-for-europa-league-final-in-azerbaijan

Israel and the Caucasus (Russia aside) aren't European football wise, definitely not- Turkey too mostly in Asia as you say.

Kazakhstan is way out though, not even close- ex Soviet or not, how they got admission to UEFA...:dunno:

On Turkey, Israel and the 3 Caucasus though, if they are in Eurovision e.g. then I suppose it would be inconsistent not to have them in UEFA. Geographically though, the last 4 on that list most definitely not and Turkey is in decent chunks Asia.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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On the football front, one thing is for sure- Pochettino and Klopp superb tactically, Emery aided by 2 great strikers seems to have found a way to win albeit in Europe moreso- not too convincing in quite a lot of games,  domestically certainly, Sarri seems to have strong footballing ethos but lacks that little something- putting Loftus Cheek in has made a difference, think he is still finding a balance and of course Guardiola at Man City and his philosophy. Mix of world class and otherwise impressive coaches there and it seems to be bearing fruit pretty well now.

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15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the football front, one thing is for sure- Pochettino and Klopp superb tactically, Emery aided by 2 great strikers seems to have found a way to win albeit in Europe moreso- not too convincing in quite a lot of games,  domestically certainly, Sarri seems to have strong footballing ethos but lacks that little something- putting Loftus Cheek in has made a difference, think he is still finding a balance and of course Guardiola at Man City and his philosophy. Mix of world class and otherwise impressive coaches there and it seems to be bearing fruit pretty well now.

I instinctively root for English clubs in Europe and there's no doubt 3 of the 4 finalists have provided memorable performances this week. Having said that, domestically the PL really doesn't interest me despite the great players and coaches in situ, so this year I cancelled Sky and BT subscriptions and get my football fix via Bet365 membership (never bet though!)

Of course if City ever got there I would immediately morph into a plastic !

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12 hours ago, Med/MadHatter said:

4 English teams through to the 2 finals, get in! I bet Europe are hating us :laugh:

Yeah, these foreign owned clubs, with foreign coaches and predominantly foreign players........we really showed em!

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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the football front, one thing is for sure- Pochettino and Klopp superb tactically, Emery aided by 2 great strikers seems to have found a way to win albeit in Europe moreso- not too convincing in quite a lot of games,  domestically certainly, Sarri seems to have strong footballing ethos but lacks that little something- putting Loftus Cheek in has made a difference, think he is still finding a balance and of course Guardiola at Man City and his philosophy. Mix of world class and otherwise impressive coaches there and it seems to be bearing fruit pretty well now.

Emery's record in the Europa League is superb. Don't think he's lost a knockout stage match in the competition since 2013 or something like that, and he's won it three times in that period.

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7 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Emery's record in the Europa League is superb. Don't think he's lost a knockout stage match in the competition since 2013 or something like that, and he's won it three times in that period.

He is very good at that level and occasionally does decent things in CL- still no doubt that the 2 strikers are key to that- the combined goals and assists of Aubameyang and Lacazette both in League and Europe are nuts. Masking a few flaws in other areas perhaps.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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It’s about time we had 4 English sides in the European competitions. Despite the fact that it is easier to qualify for Europe than ever, and despite the influx of overseas players and managers supposedly better suited to European style football, since the inception of the PL English clubs have managed a paltry 10 European trophies. Number of trophies won by English clubs from the old first division between 1967-92, with hardly an overseas player or manager in sight, 20

 

 

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48 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

It’s about time we had 4 English sides in the European competitions. Despite the fact that it is easier to qualify for Europe than ever, and despite the influx of overseas players and managers supposedly better suited to European style football, since the inception of the PL English clubs have managed a paltry 10 European trophies. Number of trophies won by English clubs from the old first division between 1967-92, with hardly an overseas player or manager in sight, 20

 

 

Think there are a variety of reasons, historically speaking- talking 1985 to now.

Firstly the competition- from say late 1980s to early or mid 2000s, Serie A was very strong- really strong. La Liga had a variety of winners too, plus they had more exposure to European football, whereas for us there was a decent period of re-adjustment required post Heysel European ban - that definitely played a role. Way the modern game has developed too. Bosman ruling- we and other big Leagues have benefitted, without doubt, and something else that changed- the abolition of the 3 foreigners rule- that stated that in European competition, sides could only field 3 foreign players plus 2 assimilated players who came through the youth setup- because of separate nations, even Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish players were deemed foreign players under this. 3 foreigners rule also gave middling and lower nations more of a chance arguably, so too did Bosman- which could create more competition. Fairly sure the seedings are more skewed in favour of bigger Leagues now too.

Plus of course the money, the academy spending, infrastructure has helped usher in this era. Also cycles- it goes around and can come around again. Plus, pre-Bosman clubs in moderate and smaller Leagues- and this hasn't just benefitted us as in PL or big boys in Europe, actually it has been to the detriment of clubs below the top ones here and in all countries, could hold onto talent more readily. This has all played a part on the competitive balance, cycles etc.

If we're talking 1967-1992 period, then it's fair to say the game has changed a hell of a lot between then and early 1990's, change further since early 2000's and probably continued evolving and changing in last 10 years- perfect pitches, no mud baths, no reducers- teams are- or have been until perhaps this year :laugh: much better defensively drilled, structurally but feels like a particularly high-scoring CL this year!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Just read that the final kicks off 11pm local time, so won't finish until nearer 0100, before extra time etc

That is nuts !

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40 minutes ago, phantom said:

Just read that the final kicks off 11pm local time, so won't finish until nearer 0100, before extra time etc

That is nuts !

Absolutely moronic to be holding a final there. 6k tickets for each club!

Edited by Super

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5 hours ago, The Batman said:

All four teams in the final have lost to wolves this season too. (Liverpool in the fa Cup). Something my local friends have jumped on very quickly. 

So using Gas logic, Wolves are the Champions of Europe!

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3 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Yeah, these foreign owned clubs, with foreign coaches and predominantly foreign players........we really showed em!

:laugh:, and yet the team with the most foreigners in the last 4 of the Champions league were Barcelona, good ain't it?

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1 hour ago, Super said:

Absolutely moronic to be holding a final there. 6k tickets for each club!

Yeah they'll be playing the final in Asia next..oh hold on......

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2 hours ago, Super said:

Absolutely moronic to be holding a final there. 6k tickets for each club!

Technically if it's part of UEFA, then it should be considered if it fits the criteria. Presumably the ground fits the criteria- it's certainly a big enough ground to- 6,000 apiece is a nonsense of course (68,000 capacity). It was decided in advance, contracts signed etc no doubt so in short? Toughski shitski. Except for the appallingly low allocation obviously!

The real q. here is whether Azerbaijan- along with Armenia, Georgia, Israel and even Turkey- plus of course Kazakhstan- should be part of UEFA.

51 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

:laugh:, and yet the team with the most foreigners in the last 4 of the Champions league were Barcelona, good ain't it?

Not sure it is so clear cut.

Bear in mind that under UEFA regs certainly in early 1990s until mid 1990s, Scots would have been classed as foreigners...might even still be in fact.

Roberto-Pique-Alba-Busquets

Gomez-Milner

Those were first leg starters.

Henderson came on early- 4-3.

Alena came on for 2 mins at the end.

2nd leg

Alexander-Arnold-Henderson-Milner

Gomez and Sturridge got 10 minutes and 5 minutes respectively.

Roberto-Pique-Alba-Busquets

So it's very close in all honesty.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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18 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Yeah they'll be playing the final in Asia next..oh hold on......

Wiki says that ground holds 68,700. Surely that can't be right giving each club 6k tickets?!

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17 minutes ago, Super said:

Wiki says that ground holds 68,700. Surely that can't be right giving each club 6k tickets?!

That I do agree with- should be at least % wise what other clubs get- surely a significantly greater % of the ground than 6,000/68,700 each. 

15-20,000 apiece, once you factor out the necessary evil of corporates. 25,000 each maybe?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

The real q. here is whether Azerbaijan- along with Armenia, Georgia, Israel and even Turkey- plus of course Kazakhstan- should be part of UEFA.

 

Israel I get because virtually all the middle east countries (and a lot of the Asian ones like Pakistan and Bangladesh) would refuse to play them and it wouldn`t be safe for their team to travel to a lot of countries for away matches. 

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Nobody in the football world appears to be considering the ecological and environmental aspects of choosing Baku as the Europa final. Only choose these far away outposts of Europe if there is a realistic chance of a club from that region, reaching the final.

As the four finalists are English clubs, even Madrid is looking like a bad choice. Just as Cardiff was when Real played Atletico a few years back.

Perhaps if this happens again, the final should be transferred to the country if both contestants, enabling supporters to get to the game without going a quarter of the way round the Earth.

Edited by cidered abroad
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17 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Israel I get because virtually all the middle east countries (and a lot of the Asian ones like Pakistan and Bangladesh) would refuse to play them and it wouldn`t be safe for their team to travel to a lot of countries for away matches. 

Oh yeah, I get that argument- it's why they couldn't play in Asian Zone. Still though, I question it, on geographical grounds if nothing else.

Personally though, if Israel are eligible even with pretty mitigating circs, I think the Caucasus states- close enough to Russia and South Eastern Europe, plus part of USSR should be. Turkey too- the only one on that list I have a real wtf?? moment with is Kazakhstan! That at its eastern edges borders China, and Mongolia making it geographically speaking a lot more a part of Asia than the others, if that makes sense. About 1,211 miles away from Armenia, so slap bang in Central Asia!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Out of the top 6 in the premiership, 2 are in the Champions League final, 2 in the Europa League final and 2 are from Manchester 😂

Shows how good the premiership has been this season 

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I was just going to contribute to this thread with something else, however, I'm just going to paste this from the BBC for now:

 

Uefa said its "recent experience" with finals in "comparable venues" meant "the number of finalists' supporters requesting tickets for a Uefa Europa League final can vary greatly from club to club".

"Of course, it is impossible to predict in advance which clubs will reach the final while the venue has to be chosen around two years in advance," it said in a statement.

"Taking into consideration the above and most importantly the geographical location and logistical capacity of airports in and around the host city, it was deemed that around 15,000 spectators would be able to travel from abroad (this includes finalists' fans and general public), with Baku as the main hub."

It added that "offering more tickets to fans of the participating teams, without any guarantee that they would be able to arrange suitable travel to reach Baku, was therefore not a responsible option".

 

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1 hour ago, PhilC said:

I was just going to contribute to this thread with something else, however, I'm just going to paste this from the BBC for now:

 

Uefa said its "recent experience" with finals in "comparable venues" meant "the number of finalists' supporters requesting tickets for a Uefa Europa League final can vary greatly from club to club".

"Of course, it is impossible to predict in advance which clubs will reach the final while the venue has to be chosen around two years in advance," it said in a statement.

"Taking into consideration the above and most importantly the geographical location and logistical capacity of airports in and around the host city, it was deemed that around 15,000 spectators would be able to travel from abroad (this includes finalists' fans and general public), with Baku as the main hub."

It added that "offering more tickets to fans of the participating teams, without any guarantee that they would be able to arrange suitable travel to reach Baku, was therefore not a responsible option".

 

Yeah they had every reason to think two teams with 6,000 travelling fans based upon x years of evidence would make the trip and if logistical capability was a criteria why select Baku ???

What if an Armenian team had reached the final btw ?

What happens with old Henrik, stopped at customs presumably or under 24 hour armed guard ?

Greased palms still exist in UEFA it seems or they are utter ******** - probably both.

 

Edited by Loon plage

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On 09/05/2019 at 23:00, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I struggle to get too excited by English dominance given the lack of English players. Looks more like the mercenary league every year.

Spurs have Alli, Winks, Kane, Rose, Dier, Davies (granted home nation but still). Liverpool have Henderson, Milner and Alexander Arnold (who is quality) plus Robertson from Scotland. Chelsea had Loftus Cheek who scored their semi goal and Hudson-Odoi. It's not all bad. Granted, not sure about Le Arse (Maitland Niles?). 

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On 10/05/2019 at 20:21, Loon plage said:

Yeah they had every reason to think two teams with 6,000 travelling fans based upon x years of evidence would make the trip and if logistical capability was a criteria why select Baku ???

What if an Armenian team had reached the final btw ?

What happens with old Henrik, stopped at customs presumably or under 24 hour armed guard ?

Greased palms still exist in UEFA it seems or they are utter ******** - probably both.

 

He may well be granted an exemption- don't think UEFA  appreciate a key player on one of the finalists being barred from the country, of the final.

https://en.radiofarda.com/a/azerbaijan-indicates-armenian-star-mkhitaryan-to-be-allowed-for-europa-final/29937645.html

Big ground, could easily and should easily have more than 6k apiece, 15-20k apiece by modern standards and in reality, all things being equal more of course!

The lack of direct flights a lot bigger a problem for sure. UEFA lately said something about Valencia had they reached final said they may have only been able to have sold 3,000- which I don't buy but that's what they said lately. Read elsewhere it maybe a problem with airport capacity which impacted on allocations. If true, that alone should have prompted a rethink.

On 10/05/2019 at 10:52, Loon plage said:

I instinctively root for English clubs in Europe and there's no doubt 3 of the 4 finalists have provided memorable performances this week. Having said that, domestically the PL really doesn't interest me despite the great players and coaches in situ, so this year I cancelled Sky and BT subscriptions and get my football fix via Bet365 membership (never bet though!)

Of course if City ever got there I would immediately morph into a plastic !

Fair enough- I used to but something about a lot of the owners turned me off a few, made me more looking at a game on preference rather than instinct. I'm part European too me, so I guess that splits views a bit from my POV.

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