Kieffer Moore - Signed for Wigan

[Ska Junkie]

Fammy's a strange one. Whilst he may be unappreciated by some of our support, opposition fans hate facing him. Yes, he's not the lethal finisher we could do with but he doesn't half put a shift in for the team.

From what I read, Moore is slightly quicker and, judging by his goals record, probably a better finisher but replacing Fammy with a player unproven at this level would be folly for me.

I think it's a case of be careful what you wish for TBH as, unless we play with a front 2, I'm not sure there's better available at the prices we shop at.

[cidered abroad]

27 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Fammy's a strange one. Whilst he may be unappreciated by some of our support, opposition fans hate facing him. Yes, he's not the lethal finisher we could do with but he doesn't half put a shift in for the team.

From what I read, Moore is slightly quicker and, judging by his goals record, probably a better finisher but replacing Fammy with a player unproven at this level would be folly for me.

I think it's a case of be careful what you wish for TBH as, unless we play with a front 2, I'm not sure there's better available at the prices we shop at.

I know nothing about Moore of Barnsley. I also agree with you that replacing Fammy could work against us.

So far we have recruited well with the signings of Kalas and Dasilva which gives us the same back four as last season. Bentley should prove a decent number one keeper.

Rowe could prove a very good midfielder for zero transfer fee and Szmodics as mentioned earlier. Although I believe we have seen the best of Pack and need to add a quality dominant central midfielder to the spine of Bentley, Kalas/Webster and Diedhiou

The conundrum now is have we done our incoming business or not?

With Semenyo, Weimann and Szmodics are we hoping they get the second striker goals? I don't see Taylor or Paterson changing the habits of the last two years.

So is this going to be another season of consolidation as a top eight side or do the club intend to bring in the two quality players that we need to increase our goal tally and become serious challengers for top two?

I'll understand if it's the former but believe the time is right, without playing idiots in the FFP game, to bring in the equipment for a determined go.

[Roger Red Hat]

7 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Bentley, Kalas/Webster and Diedhiou

I'd expect Nikki to be wearing the no.1 shirt.

[Guest]

I must have forgot many of the missed easy chances from Fam last season. There's a few sitters I remember, but i remember always thinking the main reason he isn't scoring as many is because of being so isolated.

I don't think we do play to his strengths much at all. It's no coincidence he is so much better away from home where we have more space to attack. 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 hours ago, simon uk said:

Correct me if im wrong but i dont think moore has scored 15 goals in a championship season, and diedhou has got a hell of a lot closer, and thats whats we ought to be looking for. Spend money on a striker by all means, but make it a worthwhile upgrade on what we have already

I wasn’t talking about Moore, I just pointed out that Fammy hasn’t scored 15 goals in a championship season yet you said he was a ‘15 goal a season striker’...

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, mozo said:

Dave, do you think it's better the devil you know (Famara) or take a punt on Moore? 

Not mutually exclusive, but it would be odd to have both in the first team.

I don’t know if I’m honest. If we play how we did last season and ask Moore to play as Fam did (central to just occupy the CBs) then I think neither of them are suited!  

On one friendly alone I looks like LJ nay want more mobility, and Moore is possibly what I call a willing runner. 

I haven’t seen enough of Moore, but I’m not singing from the roof tops, but played in the right system I can see logic, and would be a bit of an inspired recruit if it did come off. 

Basically I’m sat on the fence!

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah, Maynard- Maynard of 9-10 years ago in this side, (attitude, age and variables notwithstanding) would be just lethal- his technical ability and pace too would create room for others, who could exploit significantly better now than then IMO.

Now there’s a player-type that I’d like to see in this side. 

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Moore has no track record , at 26 years old at Championship Level

It doesn’t mean he won’t / can’t but it’s definitely a punt . I fear we may have been swayed by one performance against us.

I would have traded FD anytime after his first season but to move him on and replace him with Moore as our only forward business would be  a massive gamble IMHO

I think we need to improve on FD but he will get you a dozen and more goals a season

No evidence to date that Moore will at this level

Its a difficult one right now as all the ‘obvious’ candidates are both expensive , and would all come , even if we could get them , with some question mark(s)

Even someone like Gayle , as costly as he’d be , you’d have to worry how hungry, or moody he might be 

Assombalonga , Vydra all had barren spells and don’t come with any real guarantee 

 

There are no a whole host of forward options out there for our price range and level required

As you say scored a couple of blinders but his basic technique of striking a ball alone doesn’t scream ‘finisher’

He gets a reasonable goal return but then maybe she should , and more as we create plenty of opportunities too

He missed a fair number of absolute howlers last season and was second in Championship for missing the most ‘good chances’ according to the stats McGregor posted 

 

That is the danger. The goals that Moore scores are the type you see regularly in Lg1, but less the higher you go up. 

If Moore was £2m I would say fine....£4-5m is different and must be with a clear plan as to how he’ll be utilised. 

[Wade Wilson]

The thing I’m thinking about though is that we’re now officially saying we’re aiming for promotion, right? So, surely, anyone we sign now has to have a little bit of “could they maybe play in the PL in 2-3 years time?”. Moore doesn’t strike me as fulfilling that, he’d be useful at this level without a doubt, but spunking £4m on a player who, if things go well, could be surplus in two years doesn’t strike me as a great deal. There’s gotta be better, younger, options out there you’d think? 

[JoeAman08]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Do people think Famara has improved whilst he’s been here ?

Some aspects might of slightly but personally I don’t think he has - In fact I thought he looked more of a handful when he first arrived 

I think he has improved for sure but actually think his finishing has regressed. I definitely think he can hit 20 league goals easily. I mean if that stat of 20 missed chances is correct he is a slightly cooler head away from 20. I am not saying likely he scores 20 next season. Just that you see it all around Europe players becoming that little bit cooler in those situations. 

Part of the regression imo is focusing on the dirty work asked of him. A lot of focus on him not being fit enough to play 90 min. So with not being fit, adjusting to a lone role, and the suspension I think his confidence took a hit. 

Personally think he is due a big season. He knows how fit he needs to be, he knows the role now and others will be used to playing with him. Also will have the whole summer knowing he will be playing the first game. He is not and will not be perfect and if he could or was he would not be at Bristol City. I get why some will not rate him and all this is my opinion and we will see. 

5 hours ago, mozo said:

People keep talking about Semenyo as a striker, but is he actually one?

It is a valid question. Think physically speaking he has everything you want in a striker. Tall at about 6’1. Very strong but yet has quickness and pace. Has a good touch, can dribble and gets his head up and reads the game from what I have seen. 

Now whether or not he has the movement and instincts in the box to be a striker we are yet to find out. If we think back to preseason when Reid was converted he scored lots of tap ins. I will be looking for the same from Semenyo. Good news though is he had a stellar half a season wide at Newport so he can still get minutes and experience this season if striker is not working out

[Jerseybean]

Not sure if this is significant but it may indicate he’s on the move : https://the72.co.uk/138004/kieffer-moore-not-travelled-with-barnsley-squad/

[Loosey Boy]

City’s next signing!

[RobintheRed Red]

On 29/06/2019 at 16:18, milo1111 said:

He shouldn’t be the only one your right. I’m just sceptical as we have had a bit of a problem getting decent goal scoring strikers into the club the last 18/24 months.

Same here the first signing we all been looking for a striker oh apart from Kalas never gets a top name only second hand ones

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Same here the first signing we all been looking for a striker oh apart from Kalas never gets a top name only second hand ones

The point is to sign the right players not the most famous ones, however fixated some fans are with celebrity.

Kodjia and Abraham were not 'top names', Reid wasn't even a top name in our own squad!

And in Chelsea terms, what is Kalas other than second hand? If not third or fourth?!

[RobintheRed Red]

12 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The point is to sign the right players not the most famous ones, however fixated some fans are with celebrity.

Kodjia and Abraham were not 'top names', Reid wasn't even a top name in our own squad!

And in Chelsea terms, what is Kalas other than second hand? If not third or fourth?!

Well wouldnt you be deflated with the likes of keifer moore with the money we have accumalated ?

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well wouldnt you be deflated with the likes of keifer moore with the money we have accumalated ?

I'm inclined to wait and see how a player performs rather than judge him on how famous he is.

OTIB has a proud history of writing players off prematurely after all. I suspect the majority response would have been much the same as yours if we had signed a certain Finnish striker on a free last summer for instance. Not a big name you see.

As to accumulated money, last season's sales were required to stabilise our finances and the money we have raised this year has largely been spent, bearing in mind that our wage bill continues to grow. Don't fall into the net spend fallacy, it's more complicated than that.

 

[OldlandReddies]

1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

Not sure if this is significant but it may indicate he’s on the move : https://the72.co.uk/138004/kieffer-moore-not-travelled-with-barnsley-squad/

He's injured apparently which is why he didn't travel.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

He's injured apparently which is why he didn't travel.

That old chestnut

[RobintheRed Red]

46 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm inclined to wait and see how a player performs rather than judge him on how famous he is.

OTIB has a proud history of writing players off prematurely after all. I suspect the majority response would have been much the same as yours if we had signed a certain Finnish striker on a free last summer for instance. Not a big name you see.

As to accumulated money, last season's sales were required to stabilise our finances and the money we have raised this year has largely been spent, bearing in mind that our wage bill continues to grow. Don't fall into the net spend fallacy, it's more complicated than that.

 

Dont agree  weve just balanced the books sold kelly for 13 million  kallas was so say 8 million dasilva  3 at the most wages bigger il agree .smzodics  money in the bank from freeman we havent broke the Bank by a long way we wont even mention last seasons outgoings . Oh and according to reports on fb kelly could end up being a 21 million deal with add ons and England performances.(Robins on the wire )

[Davefevs]

Just now, RobintheRed Red said:

Dont agree  weve just balanced the books sold kelly for 13 million  kallas was so say 8 million dasilva  3 at the most wages bigger il agree smzodics  money in the bank from freeman we havent broke the Bank by a long way we wont even mention last seasons outgoings . Oh and according to tepirts on fb kelly could end up being a 21 million deal with add ons and England performances.

But we have a £10-15m overspend per season before we buy or sell anyone!!  The harsh reality of our finances I'm afraid.  We can’t go mad.

We can’t count Kelly’s £6m add-ons until they actually happen, if they happen.  Believed to be linked to full international caps, which may not happen for years if at all.

You can bet Kalas, Dasilva (JD), Szmodics and Bentley all had decent signing on fees, agent fees too...and I suspect several existing players have received their annual contractual payments too.

We are in a much better financial position that most in our division, but we lost £25m in 17/18!!!

I’m a bit of a broken record on this subject....sorry.

[BobBobSuperBob]

50 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm inclined to wait and see how a player performs rather than judge him on how famous he is.

OTIB has a proud history of writing players off prematurely after all. I suspect the majority response would have been much the same as yours if we had signed a certain Finnish striker on a free last summer for instance. Not a big name you see.

As to accumulated money, last season's sales were required to stabilise our finances and the money we have raised this year has largely been spent, bearing in mind that our wage bill continues to grow. Don't fall into the net spend fallacy, it's more complicated than that.

 

Normally agree with most you post China but to compare the CV of Pukki to the prospective signing of Kieffer Moore is somewhat flawed

One has 74 International Caps and 19 International goals and can boast Sevilla, Schalke , Celtic and Brondby as previous clubs and League titles in Finland and Scotland

One has no International cups and has Yeovil ,.Forest Grren, Ipswich and Rotherham as previous Clubs 

[RobintheRed Red]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But we have a £10-15m overspend per season before we buy or sell anyone!!  The harsh reality of our finances I'm afraid.  We can’t go mad.

We can’t count Kelly’s £6m add-ons until they actually happen, if they happen.  Believed to be linked to full international caps, which may not happen for years if at all.

You can bet Kalas, Dasilva (JD), Szmodics and Bentley all had decent signing on fees, agent fees too...and I suspect several existing players have received their annual contractual payments too.

We are in a much better financial position that most in our division, but we lost £25m in 17/18!!!

I’m a bit of a broken record on this subject....sorry.

Dave i agree with you  on most of this but its the same for all clubs wage rises signing on fees but sooner or later you gotta have a go we cant keep standing still there has been some good signings this season but you need to pay a fee for a top class striker you cant always get lucky from league one or two as its shown with some of our signings from last year.

[Davefevs]

Just now, RobintheRed Red said:

Dave i agree with you  on most of this but its the same for all clubs wage rises signing on fees but sooner or later you gotta have a go we cant keep standing still there has been some good signings this season but you need to pay a fee for a top class striker you cant always get lucky from league one or two as its shown with some of our signings from last year.

I know....But do we fail FFP to do it?

We aren’t standing still.  Through financial prudence, both us and Brentford are making the most of the early part of the window whilst other clubs are trying to shift players to create a transfer budget.  In the case of a couple of clubs, they are under soft embargo too.

We’ve manoeuvred ourselves into a good position to “go for it” thus summer....however what City deem as “going for it” is probably not the gamble most fans want the club to take.

A bit frustrating? Yes.  Think we will wait our turn to get a forward player later in the window, possibly on loan.  Just my gut feel.

[Riaz]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Normally agree with most you post China but to compare the CV of Pukki to the prospective signing of Kieffer Moore is somewhat flawed

One has 74 International Caps and 19 International goals and can boast Sevilla, Schalke , Celtic and Brondby as previous clubs and League titles in Finland and Scotland

One has no International cups and has Yeovil ,.Forest Grren, Ipswich and Rotherham as previous Clubs 

Jamie Vardy probably had similar background to Moore...

[RobintheRed Red]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know....But do we fail FFP to do it?

We aren’t standing still.  Through financial prudence, both us and Brentford are making the most of the early part of the window whilst other clubs are trying to shift players to create a transfer budget.  In the case of a couple of clubs, they are under soft embargo too.

We’ve manoeuvred ourselves into a good position to “go for it” thus summer....however what City deem as “going for it” is probably not the gamble most fans want the club to take.

A bit frustrating? Yes.  Think we will wait our turn to get a forward player later in the window, possibly on loan.  Just my gut feel.

Yes think it will be a loan myself but dont wanna get in the realms of waiting till january again or it might not happen like last year it might be me being impatient but im knocking on a bit and i want to see us up there one more time oh and no we got go do it right regarding ffp .:laugh:

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Jamie Vardy probably had similar background to Moore...

Other than a vastly different scoring record in Non League , and reputation there , very similar 

 

[chinapig]

5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Normally agree with most you post China but to compare the CV of Pukki to the prospective signing of Kieffer Moore is somewhat flawed

One has 74 International Caps and 19 International goals and can boast Sevilla, Schalke , Celtic and Brondby as previous clubs and League titles in Finland and Scotland

One has no International cups and has Yeovil ,.Forest Grren, Ipswich and Rotherham as previous Clubs 

Point taken Bob but I wasn't comparing the CV's, I was making the point that (despite his background) he was not a 'big name' in the sense that gets used on here.

I reckon most would not have been aware of him and that the dreaded 'underwhelmed' response would have made a few appearances! And that the club would have been criticised for not spending millions on someone famous based in England.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

Point taken Bob but I wasn't comparing the CV's, I was making the point that (despite his background) he was not a 'big name' in the sense that gets used on here.

I rec kon most would not have been aware of him and that the dreaded 'underwhelmed' response would have made a few appearances! And that the club would have been criticised for not spending millions on someone famous based in England.

Ha ha - You May be right

Just hope with his International record alone that fans would have realised he had a level proven pedigree 

The forward situation is a difficult one , everyone after goalscorers and silly money quoted left right and centre

Moore is more our budget but definitely a punt 

I think to be fair to some posters  , they can see we’ve got a decent base with Kalas , Jay , Bentley added ,Szmodics hopefully providing something different (Good vibe about him) and would like to see us get in some proven quality up top

The Championship full of Clubs under pressure but in financial dilemmas or forms of turmoil and there’s a real chance for any well organised side next season

Asfor a solution to what to add, if anything up top, I realise real difficult one at the moment  

There’s not a wealth of options out there , or in UK at least

Overpriced and demand exceeding availability

I even have slight doubts on the expensive options of Assombalonga , Vydra etc , so not easy

Of all positions , one where we could desperately do with producing one our own !!

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes think it will be a loan myself but dont wanna get in the realms of waiting till january again or it might not happen like last year it might be me being impatient but im knocking on a bit and i want to see us up there one more time oh and no we got go do it right regarding ffp .:laugh:

Could try to be creative- of course it takes 2 clubs to do so, I don't know but idea- offer Burnley a loan with obligation to buy for say Vydra.

Good player, but hasn't worked out there, doesn't suit their style and they don't suit his, step up- all of them combined meant that is the case. The advantage of a loan with obligation for us is we know we have something in place, Burnley know they have a profit and saving down the track and plus our £25m loss from 2017/18 drops off the figures. Given he's a good player if we don't go up in a year or 2, we can surely sell thereby removing a big earner, likely turning a profit on book value and removing some amortisation plus of course big wages.

I do think another striker needed- think most of us do- but that £25m loss from 2017/18 still has to be kept in mind. Of course we surely have some saleable assets, but then the transfer market in the Championship seems somewhat less buoyant this summer, certainly in terms of big splashes so far, so that outbound market for us may have reduced a bit!

[BobBobSuperBob]

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could try to be creative- of course it takes 2 clubs to do so, I don't know but idea- offer Burnley a loan with obligation to buy for say Vydra.

Good player, but hasn't worked out there, doesn't suit their style and they don't suit his, step up- all of them combined meant that is the case. The advantage of a loan with obligation for us is we know we have something in place, Burnley know they have a profit and saving down the track and plus our £25m loss from 2017/18 drops off the figures. Given he's a good player if we don't go up in a year or 2, we can surely sell thereby removing a big earner, likely turning a profit on book value and removing some amortisation plus of course big wages.

I do think another striker needed- think most of us do- but that £25m loss from 2017/18 still has to be kept in mind. Of course we surely have some saleable assets, but then the transfer market in the Championship seems somewhat less buoyant this summer, certainly in terms of big splashes so far, so that outbound market for us may have reduced a bit!

Interesting post Mr P ( Love your understanding and take on FFP and thoughts to help the rest of us - always adds another thing to consider , and what SL/JL/MA have to consider

interesting thoughts re loan with a commitment to buy , thus pushing the buy away from the £25m loss for FFP

And what we do have , which keeps us in a healthy position and able to ‘spend ahead’ if we wished to , is assets

Webster, Semeneyo , Kalas , Brownhill ....etc

All tied to contracts , all very saleable assets , should we need or have to

Not sure we’ve ever been healthier in terms of the value of assets playing wise, and that means we are pretty stable and healthy as far as I can see

 

[mozo]

32 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting post Mr P ( Love your understanding and take on FFP and thoughts to help the rest of us - always adds another thing to consider , and what SL/JL/MA have to consider

interesting thoughts re loan with a commitment to buy , thus pushing the buy away from the £25m loss for FFP

And what we do have , which keeps us in a healthy position and able to ‘spend ahead’ if we wished to , is assets

Webster, Semeneyo , Kalas , Brownhill ....etc

All tied to contracts , all very saleable assets , should we need or have to

Not sure we’ve ever been healthier in terms of the value of assets playing wise, and that means we are pretty stable and healthy as far as I can see

 

No doubt about that

[Port Red]

As far as I am aware however the Reid, Flint, Bryan and Kelly sales all fall into the 2018/19 year from a FFP perspective with only Eisa sold in the current period (19/20).

As such we have 2 more seasons before the 18/19 season drops off after which we could find ourselves needing to sell to meet FFP if we haven't reached the prem by then.  As Mr P pointed out we have assets to sell in a year or 2 if needs be and as such I'd expect us to have a good go of it this year and next.