BS4 on Tour... Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 07/07/2019 at 17:48, simon uk said: Can someone tell me why we would bring in a 15 goal league 1 striker to replace a 15 goal championship striker? Come on guys - leave the exaggerations to the gas - Fammy has never scored 15 league goals in a championship season and @Riaz Bobby Reid has never scored 20 league goals in a championship season ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Come on guys - leave the exaggerations to the gas - Fammy has never scored 15 league goals in a championship season and @Riaz Bobby Reid has never scored 20 league goals in a championship season ... Correct me if im wrong but i dont think moore has scored 15 goals in a championship season, and diedhou has got a hell of a lot closer, and thats whats we ought to be looking for. Spend money on a striker by all means, but make it a worthwhile upgrade on what we have already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 10 hours ago, chipdawg said: Sorry, just don't see that Keiffer Moore is better than Diedhou. We need a new striker, but KM is not he in my opinion Would be very underwhelmed by KM, but I trust Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 A nice range of goals there tbh. A fair few of them looked harder or with a lesser chance of success than the archetypal "easy/big" chances he misses too- that of course remains a big problem. 26 goals, 4 assists in 2 seasons reasonable tbh- especially given the lengthy injury in Year 1. People talk about his weak first touch but it's not always weak, as @Davefevs rightly said. People also talk about his lack of technique/ball retention but reasonable numbers of those goals did show a decent latent technique- plus ball retention, passing appears to vary wildly. WhoScored maybe less than ideal but some games show him at 46%..some show him at 76%- that's for passing accuracy. His average is 60% or so- which falls roughly between that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, simon uk said: Correct me if im wrong but i dont think moore has scored 15 goals in a championship season, and diedhou has got a hell of a lot closer, and thats whats we ought to be looking for. Spend money on a striker by all means, but make it a worthwhile upgrade on what we have already Scored 17 in 26 starts last season - in league one. Out injured for 11 games. https://www.transfermarkt.com/kieffer-moore/leistungsdaten/spieler/275590/plus/0?saison=2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Come on guys - leave the exaggerations to the gas - Fammy has never scored 15 league goals in a championship season and @Riaz Bobby Reid has never scored 20 league goals in a championship season ... He scored 19 in the league... hardly an exaggeration. My point i was trying to make (but clearly not very well) was that if bobby reid could score 19 (almost 20) in his first season, then kieffer moore, who scored 17 in 32 in the league below, CAN, with the right coaching make the step up and be just as prolific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, Riaz said: He scored 19 in the league... hardly an exaggeration. My point i was trying to make (but clearly not very well) was that if bobby reid could score 19 (almost 20) in his first season, then kieffer moore, who scored 17 in 32 in the league below, CAN, with the right coaching make the step up and be just as prolific. It's an exaggeration of 5% isn't it (maths not my strong point!), not that I care. Question: do you think that by the logic you've used there whereby our coaches can develop strikers toward the 20 goal mark, you could come to the conclusion that with the correct coaching, Diedhiou, at 26 and with his considerable physicality, could improve from his 13 goals a season to the 20 that we need? (Long sentence award goes to me) Maybe Fammy is the answer after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, mozo said: It's an exaggeration of 5% isn't it (maths not my strong point!), not that I care. Question: do you think that by the logic you've used there whereby our coaches can develop strikers toward the 20 goal mark, you could come to the conclusion that with the correct coaching, Diedhiou, at 26 and with his considerable physicality, could improve from his 13 goals a season to the 20 that we need? (Long sentence award goes to me) Maybe Fammy is the answer after all? Fam would have hit 20 the season before if he had not been out for so long. He scored a goal every 180 mins exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, mozo said: It's an exaggeration of 5% isn't it (maths not my strong point!), not that I care. Question: do you think that by the logic you've used there whereby our coaches can develop strikers toward the 20 goal mark, you could come to the conclusion that with the correct coaching, Diedhiou, at 26 and with his considerable physicality, could improve from his 13 goals a season to the 20 that we need? (Long sentence award goes to me) Maybe Fammy is the answer after all? Well the thing is, LJ has already been coaching Fam... and have reasonably sucessful results... Any improvements now would be marginal you would imagine.... Whereas with moore, maybe LJ sees something... like he did with bobby reid..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Fam would have hit 20 the season before if he had not been out for so long. He scored a goal every 180 mins exactly. But how many chances did he miss? Our problem last season was not scoring enough and not just from the strikers. We need more goals in the squad and I certainly think a new striker is required, not to replace Fam but to supplement him. If Fam were to go we would two new strikers not one. We can't rely on Semanyo being the answer - he might be, but we can't rely on that at this point. BTW - I don't think KM is the answer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Fam would have hit 20 the season before if he had not been out for so long. He scored a goal every 180 mins exactly. It's a fair criticism though, isn't it, that he's prone to fluctuations in form that are beyong what you'd expect from a top Championship frontman? There's still a lot of coaching to be done isn't there? And I suppose the question is, will he make the improvements prior to us signing a ready made replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottishRed said: But how many chances did he miss? Our problem last season was not scoring enough and not just from the strikers. We need more goals in the squad and I certainly think a new striker is required, not to replace Fam but to supplement him. If Fam were to go we would two new strikers not one. We can't rely on Semanyo being the answer - he might be, but we can't rely on that at this point. BTW - I don't think KM is the answer either. People keep talking about Semenyo as a striker, but is he actually one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 12 hours ago, Gazred said: He doesn't need the extra touch Jon, goal machine Looks a right baller haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Fam would have hit 20 the season before if he had not been out for so long. He scored a goal every 180 mins exactly. You keep saying this Hate to break it to you , but it’s not that simple For the ‘ missing games ‘ Maybe he would have scored 2 in 11 as he did at the end (The business end) of last season A goal every 495 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 Do people think Famara has improved whilst he’s been here ? Some aspects might of slightly but personally I don’t think he has - In fact I thought he looked more of a handful when he first arrived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Do people think Famara has improved whilst he’s been here ? Some aspects might of slightly but personally I don’t think he has - In fact I thought he looked more of a handful when he first arrived I'm a bit torn to be honest. Every time I lose faith in him he then scores a couple of goals and looks more like what we need. The next 3 seasons should be his prime so I don't know whether to give him the benefit of the doubt or not. Ultimately I think this team needs a Maynard/Lita type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 Saw this thread was 'hot'.. no updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Do people think Famara has improved whilst he’s been here ? Some aspects might of slightly but personally I don’t think he has - In fact I thought he looked more of a handful when he first arrived Agree Bob. Thought he had a little spell in the middle of last season (after being given s kick up the arse from LJ) where he looked the best I’ve seen him, but then he slipped back again. I like Fam, but we don’t play a style to suit him. I wonder whether 19/20 will see him not be an auto pick up front. Recruitment might show that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Agree Bob. Thought he had a little spell in the middle of last season (after being given s kick up the arse from LJ) where he looked the best I’ve seen him, but then he slipped back again. I like Fam, but we don’t play a style to suit him. I wonder whether 19/20 will see him not be an auto pick up front. Recruitment might show that. Agree there was a few games in the second half of last season where he looked the part Hes not a disaster , but IMHO not good enough for where we are aiming Worth looking back at his goals - How many finishes of his are clinical , sharp finishes , good strikes ? Better with his head than his scuff shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Agree Bob. Thought he had a little spell in the middle of last season (after being given s kick up the arse from LJ) where he looked the best I’ve seen him, but then he slipped back again. I like Fam, but we don’t play a style to suit him. I wonder whether 19/20 will see him not be an auto pick up front. Recruitment might show that. Dave, do you think it's better the devil you know (Famara) or take a punt on Moore? Not mutually exclusive, but it would be odd to have both in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Unan said: Saw this thread was 'hot'.. no updates No, but there's some good chat/debate going on about a potential new player which is surely what a forum is for if there's not much happening. No time to post at length at the mo., but the current posts are a good quick read imo. Keep it up chaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, mozo said: I'm a bit torn to be honest. Every time I lose faith in him he then scores a couple of goals and looks more like what we need. The next 3 seasons should be his prime so I don't know whether to give him the benefit of the doubt or not. Ultimately I think this team needs a Maynard/Lita type. Ah, Maynard- Maynard of 9-10 years ago in this side, (attitude, age and variables notwithstanding) would be just lethal- his technical ability and pace too would create room for others, who could exploit significantly better now than then IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Agree there was a few games in the second half of last season where he looked the part Hes not a disaster , but IMHO not good enough for where we are aiming Worth looking back at his goals - How many finishes of his are clinical , sharp finishes , good strikes ? Better with his head than his scuff shots There seems to be a big and I mean big variance between on form/good Diedhiou and not quite with it. Little middle ground basically IMO- stats can only go so far but I took a quick look at certain metrics earlier- his passing accuracy and this feeds into his touch ranges between mid 40's-mid 70's % wise- far too big a range I think. Looked quickly earlier. Likewise he can score goals and some quite good if not excellent ones- think Blackburn home, WBA away and Millwall away that aren't all that easy and some others but miss some extremely easy chances- Bolton at home last season sticks in the mind but I reckon there are plenty more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, mozo said: Dave, do you think it's better the devil you know (Famara) or take a punt on Moore? Not mutually exclusive, but it would be odd to have both in the first team. Moore has no track record , at 26 years old at Championship Level It doesn’t mean he won’t / can’t but it’s definitely a punt . I fear we may have been swayed by one performance against us. I would have traded FD anytime after his first season but to move him on and replace him with Moore as our only forward business would be a massive gamble IMHO I think we need to improve on FD but he will get you a dozen and more goals a season No evidence to date that Moore will at this level Its a difficult one right now as all the ‘obvious’ candidates are both expensive , and would all come , even if we could get them , with some question mark(s) Even someone like Gayle , as costly as he’d be , you’d have to worry how hungry, or moody he might be Assombalonga , Vydra all had barren spells and don’t come with any real guarantee There are no a whole host of forward options out there for our price range and level required 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: There seems to be a big and I mean big variance between on form/good Diedhiou and not quite with it. Little middle ground basically IMO- stats can only go so far but I took a quick look at certain metrics earlier- his passing accuracy and this feeds into his touch ranges between mid 40's-mid 70's % wise- far too big a range I think. Looked quickly earlier. Likewise he can score goals and some quite good if not excellent ones- think Blackburn home, WBA away and Millwall away that aren't all that easy and some others but miss some extremely easy chances- Bolton at home last season sticks in the mind but I reckon there are plenty more. As you say scored a couple of blinders but his basic technique of striking a ball alone doesn’t scream ‘finisher’ He gets a reasonable goal return but then maybe she should , and more as we create plenty of opportunities too He missed a fair number of absolute howlers last season and was second in Championship for missing the most ‘good chances’ according to the stats McGregor posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Moore has no track record , at 26 years old at Championship Level It doesn’t mean he won’t / can’t but it’s definitely a punt . I fear we may have been swayed by one performance against us. I would have traded FD anytime after his first season but to move him on and replace him with Moore as our only forward business would be a massive gamble IMHO I think we need to improve on FD but he will get you a dozen and more goals a season No evidence to date that Moore will at this level Its a difficult one right now as all the ‘obvious’ candidates are both expensive , and would all come , even if we could get them , with some question mark(s) Even someone like Gayle , as costly as he’d be , you’d have to worry how hungry, or moody he might be Assombalonga , Vydra all had barren spells and don’t come with any real guarantee There are no a whole host of forward options out there for our price range and level required As you say scored a couple of blinders but his basic technique of striking a ball alone doesn’t scream ‘finisher’ He gets a reasonable goal return but then maybe he should , and more as we create plenty of opportunities too He missed a fair number of absolute howlers last season and was second in Championship for missing the most ‘good chances’ according to the stats McGregor posted IMO, we need a quick, preferably tall enough to trouble big defenders, fox in the box. Whether Semenyo or Szmodics will fit this bill is to be seen. But I'd prefer another striker as i've described and leave the other two to start racking up our midfield contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Moore has no track record , at 26 years old at Championship Level It doesn’t mean he won’t / can’t but it’s definitely a punt . I fear we may have been swayed by one performance against us. I would have traded FD anytime after his first season but to move him on and replace him with Moore as our only forward business would be a massive gamble IMHO I think we need to improve on FD but he will get you a dozen and more goals a season No evidence to date that Moore will at this level Its a difficult one right now as all the ‘obvious’ candidates are both expensive , and would all come , even if we could get them , with some question mark(s) Even someone like Gayle , as costly as he’d be , you’d have to worry how hungry, or moody he might be Assombalonga , Vydra all had barren spells and don’t come with any real guarantee There are no a whole host of forward options out there for our price range and level required As you say scored a couple of blinders but his basic technique of striking a ball alone doesn’t scream ‘finisher’ He gets a reasonable goal return but then maybe she should , and more as we create plenty of opportunities too He missed a fair number of absolute howlers last season and was second in Championship for missing the most ‘good chances’ according to the stats McGregor posted Diedhiou is useful but frustratingly inconsistent. We also got rid of Djuric and didn’t really replace him. I could imagine us getting Moore as well as Diedhiou, AND a poacher - eg Nketiah, Roofe. Maybe a pipe dream, maybe Semenyo or Weimann will end up as that goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: IMO, we need a quick, preferably tall enough to trouble big defenders, fox in the box. Whether Semenyo or Szmodics will fit this bill is to be seen. But I'd prefer another striker as i've described and leave the other two to start racking up our midfield contribution. 17 minutes ago, Leveller said: Diedhiou is useful but frustratingly inconsistent. We also got rid of Djuric and didn’t really replace him. I could imagine us getting Moore as well as Diedhiou, AND a poacher - eg Nketiah, Roofe. Maybe a pipe dream, maybe Semenyo or Weimann will end up as that goal scorer. Both good thoughts If I was considering Moore I’d see him as an addition / option to Diedhiou (Unless we get a silly offer for FD) and then add a finisher to squad , a fox in box , as you say Cidered (I see this as likely to be filled by a young prem loanee if at all) Semenyo is an unknown and many suggest could help but he’s not a Out and out forward , or not at the moment Because of his ability I can see him contributing goals from wide or as an attacking midfielder as he comes through but he’s got a massive steep learning curve to break through into Championship level and learn a forwards role and more importantly instinct - again agree with you Cidered on this and Szmodics I think Semeneyo and Szmodics contributions and success or otherwise may have a big bearing on this season No real reason , other than I like his technique from researching him since our interest , and his chirpy attitude , but I have a gut vibe , and hope that Szmodics could surprise the Championship this season id love to know what happened with the whole Eisa situation , I liked the look of his potential and he did look a more natural ‘finisher’ Will be interesting to see how he goes at Peterborough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Both good thoughts If I was considering Moore I’d see him as an addition / option to Diedhiou (Unless we get a silly offer for FD) and then add a finisher to squad , a fox in box , as you say Cidered (I see this as likely to be filled by a young prem loanee if at all) Semenyo is an unknown and many suggest could help but he’s not a Out and out forward , or not at the moment Because of his ability I can see him contributing goals from wide or as an attacking midfielder as he comes through but he’s got a massive steep learning curve to break through into Championship level and learn a forwards role and more importantly instinct - again agree with you Cidered on this and Szmodics I think Semeneyo and Szmodics contributions and success or otherwise may have a big bearing on this season No real reason , other than I like his technique from researching him since our interest , and his chirpy attitude , but I have a gut vibe , and hope that Szmodics could surprise the Championship this season id love to know what happened with the whole Eisa situation , I liked the look of his potential and he did look a more natural ‘finisher’ Will be interesting to see how he goes at Peterborough Yeah and by 'finisher' and 'poacher' I think we mean someone who's instinct is to shoot at the earliest opportunity, who shoots with conviction (technique elps too) and who has a positional sense inside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 Am I right in thinking Fammy hit the woodwork 8-10 times last season? You could call that non clinical finishing, 'should have scored, missed chance' etc. but that level of post hitting from one player strikes me as extraordinary (if I'm right) so you could call it really bad luck too. If even half of those had gone in instead of hitting the underside of the bar etc. we'd be talking about 17/18 league goals from Fammy in 41 apps. Would fans still be calling for him to be replaced if that had been the case? Not so sure - small margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Am I right in thinking Fammy hit the woodwork 8-10 times last season? You could call that non clinical finishing, 'should have scored, missed chance' etc. but that level of post hitting from one player strikes me as extraordinary (if I'm right) so you could call it really bad luck too. If even half of those had gone in instead of hitting the underside of the bar etc. we'd be talking about 17/18 league goals from Fammy in 41 apps. Would fans still be calling for him to be replaced if that had been the case? Not so sure - small margins. Simply Nog Of course it’s not only about goals but If he converted a higher percentage of guilt chances he would have been well over 20 IIRC from the stats McGregor posted his conversion rates of good chances was down around 1 in 4/5 (Bamford was surprisingly first) That’s poor but for someone who doesn’t make chances of his own , it suggests that we as a side were creating chances I see his conversion rate from his shots on goal last season were %14 The best for a forward in Championship was McBurnie %33 Alan Browne was up there too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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