Jump to content
IGNORED

How much can we spend & will we spend it well?


Unan

Recommended Posts

My guesses, lots of either ors...

Keeper - No idea but we seem to be after Davies from Barnsley

CB - Kalas, Clark, Van Der Hoorn (Swansea)

LB- JDS, probably need another

CM- Szmodics (looks done according to the internet) and Joe Williams

RB- I would try for Mason Holgate from Everton on loan, good player and can cover at CB if needed. I admire Bailey for his flexibility but at RB, he struggles, puts the team before himself though so not a criticism of BW the CB.

CF - IF Derby went up, I would try for Marriott again but I also like the look of McBurnie at Swansea. We also seem to be after Moore from Barnsley which says Fammy's off IMHO.

LW- We've already got ME so not such a biggie for me but, probably out of our range, Ryan Fraser is some player and OOC next year. Ademola Lookman on loan would be a statement as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still see wages as a massive problem going forward. We have invested too much into average players. Maybe that was bound to happen as we have gone from relegation candidates each season to playoff fighters.

However it leaves us in a situation where we have expensive players who are not good enough for top 6 sides to be interested in and too expensive for bottom half sides to be interested in. Trading is a term thrown about a lot these past few months but going to be a test to trade some of these contracts. Who is taking on Watkins at 10-12k a week? Who is taking on Baker at 20k a week? When we sell Kelly it barely makes a difference wage wise. As an example it is like we have a 25m transfer budget but 25k wage budget. The two do not match. I am a bit worried at how this summer pans out.

One option I guess would be to gamble. Sign a few on larger wages and hope you can move on a few other salaries this summer and January. We will see but it is a massive window for the club because most of those 17k season card holders are expecting a further investment into a strong squad.  

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Olsson on a free as competition at LB?

Just been released by Swansea but then their owners appear to be in asset stripping mode, he is 30 however-  but Da Silva and him competing at LB?

Could do much worse.

Rather Bidwell released from QPR. That said, both would feel like more a Jack Hunt signing than Kalas signing. Are either good enough to help us finish higher than 8th? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

CB - Kalas, Clark, Van Der Hoorn (Swansea)

LB- JDS, probably need another

CM- Szmodics (looks done according to the internet) and Joe Williams

RB- I would try for Mason Holgate from Everton on loan, good player and can cover at CB if needed.

CF - IF Derby went up, I would try for Marriott again but I also like the look of McBurnie at Swansea.

LW- We've already got ME so not such a biggie for me but, probably out of our range, Ryan Fraser is some player and OOC next year. Ademola Lookman on loan would be a statement as well.

McBurnie linked with Sheff U and Brighton. Probably out of our range. Fraser linked with Arsenal and those types no chance. Lookman is wanted by Bundesliga clubs and premier league clubs for 20m + no chance. Marriott a shout if they go up. Imagine Holgate will be looking higher having just spent half a season in the champ but no harm in asking. 

Points out how tough it is to find attacking players. Premier league clubs are desperate for goals so will take the best from the championship. We need to look abroad for a striker. Even types like Nketiah are staying around their first teams for cup games and impact subs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mentioned in another thread, we might need seven players to just tread water atm

 

We need a RB, if Kalas and JDS don't return we are going to need a LB and CB (first choice, or behind Wright/Baker) We all think we need a striker and a midfield player to offer options/competition for pack. With Kelly and CoD going we are also going to need more cover so another midfield player and LB.

 

That's potentially 7 players we need just to tread water. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

McBurnie linked with Sheff U and Brighton. Probably out of our range. Fraser linked with Arsenal and those types no chance. Lookman is wanted by Bundesliga clubs and premier league clubs for 20m + no chance. Marriott a shout if they go up. Imagine Holgate will be looking higher having just spent half a season in the champ but no harm in asking. 

Points out how tough it is to find attacking players. Premier league clubs are desperate for goals so will take the best from the championship. We need to look abroad for a striker. Even types like Nketiah are staying around their first teams for cup games and impact subs

Cheers Joe, far more informed than I am. That's me shot down then ! ;) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Unan said:

From TransferMarkt so maybe not 100% accurate, but pretty close.

Kelly (13-17m?), Reid £10.22m, Flint £7.20m, Bryan £6.03m, Magnússon £2.52m, Djuric £585k = Roughly 40-44m

Additionally, at the end of 16/17 we sold Tomlin for 3m & at the end of 15/16 we sold Kodjia for 11m = Roughly 54-58m

Our incomings of note in that period have been Tomlin 3m, Fammy 5m, Magnuson 1.9m, Djuric 1.6m, Engvall 1.4m, Taylor Moore 1.5m, O'Dowda 1m, Baker 3.9m, Eliasson 1.8m, Walsh 1m, Webster 3.6m, Wiemann 2m, Eisa 1.5m, Hunt 1.5m & Watkins 1m = 31m

So in the past 3 years we've made roughly 20m profit on players and are the only club that has consistently improved over the last 5 years.

The question now is, how "bold" will we be? how "bold" can we be? and will we make the right signings?

I would hope more money will be invested into youth development from early ages . Bristol City have developed Bryan, Reid and Kelly on a moderate investment in comparison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I still see wages as a massive problem going forward. We have invested too much into average players. Maybe that was bound to happen as we have gone from relegation candidates each season to playoff fighters.

However it leaves us in a situation where we have expensive players who are not good enough for top 6 sides to be interested in and too expensive for bottom half sides to be interested in. Trading is a term thrown about a lot these past few months but going to be a test to trade some of these contracts. Who is taking on Watkins at 10-12k a week? Who is taking on Baker at 20k a week? When we sell Kelly it barely makes a difference wage wise. As an example it is like we have a 25m transfer budget but 25k wage budget. The two do not match. I am a bit worried at how this summer pans out.

One option I guess would be to gamble. Sign a few on larger wages and hope you can move on a few other salaries this summer and January. We will see but it is a massive window for the club because most of those 17k season card holders are expecting a further investment into a strong squad.  

Rather Bidwell released from QPR. That said, both would feel like more a Jack Hunt signing than Kalas signing. Are either good enough to help us finish higher than 8th? 

Olsson has a much better pedigree than Bidwell- I was wrong though, aged 31 rather than 30. PL, top half Championship, nearly 50 caps for a decent mid ranked nation in Sweden. My question would be he's now over 30, would it be worth the likely expenditure?

Your point on wages v fees...depends on how much  would like to push the limit- we can mix and match our wage and transfer budget, knowing that if needs be we can sell to reduce the outgoings, amortisation etc- lot would then depend on SL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Cheers Joe, far more informed than I am. That's me shot down then ! ;) 

That’s alright sorry if I was rudely blunt. Wasn’t my intention to be rude. 

The names are fine but just shows that the money is insane above our level. Even lesser players than you named are almost impossible. Even if players aren’t playing they retain their value longer and they are generally on wages we can’t afford. Almost impossible to bring in premier league players. 

You named some good players but even lesser ones are too much. Shane Long probably on 40-50k a week. A player I like who is a rotation player at Bournemouth Dan Gosling probably 30-40k. These aren’t even great names but would be record fees and wages I imagine. We are probably in the hardest league to add quality to without overpaying massively. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That’s alright sorry if I was rudely blunt. Wasn’t my intention to be rude. 

The names are fine but just shows that the money is insane above our level. Even lesser players than you named are almost impossible. Even if players aren’t playing they retain their value longer and they are generally on wages we can’t afford. Almost impossible to bring in premier league players. 

You named some good players but even lesser ones are too much. Shane Long probably on 40-50k a week. A player I like who is a rotation player at Bournemouth Dan Gosling probably 30-40k. These aren’t even great names but would be record fees and wages I imagine. We are probably in the hardest league to add quality to without overpaying massively. 

No need for apologies Joe, you're absolutely spot on mate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

Last year's sales balanced the previous year's losses so I believe the plan was always to spend this Summer on the basis that if we fell short again, 19/20's losses would just replace 17/18's on the three year FFP cycle. With that in mind I was cautiously expecting us to spend between £15-20m. LJ talking of bold signings further bolstered that view. With LK leaving and COD expected to, that budget could move up towards £30m without putting us in danger of falling foul of FFP.

With that kind of budget we could sign JDS and Kalas permanently and go back in for Assombalonga. I believe we will end up bringing Steffen in on a season long loan, then pick up Williams on a smaller fee (£1-2m) and our squad won't be a million miles away from competing at the top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Pezo said:

Do we need to factor in costs of loans for FFP? I can imagine we paid over a million just to loan Kalas last season. 

Yes

18 hours ago, Andre_The_Giant said:

Yeah I’m sure they count.

Would be a great loophole though ?

Unfortunately not....Kalas £1m loan fee is the same cost as buying him for £5m and a 5 year contract....

....apart from you own the asset to sell on for a fee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

Last year's sales balanced the previous year's losses so I believe the plan was always to spend this Summer on the basis that if we fell short again, 19/20's losses would just replace 17/18's on the three year FFP cycle. With that in mind I was cautiously expecting us to spend between £15-20m. LJ talking of bold signings further bolstered that view. With LK leaving and COD expected to, that budget could move up towards £30m without putting us in danger of falling foul of FFP.

With that kind of budget we could sign JDS and Kalas permanently and go back in for Assombalonga. I believe we will end up bringing Steffen in on a season long loan, then pick up Williams on a smaller fee (£1-2m) and our squad won't be a million miles away from competing at the top.

That's correct... although have no idea as to who we'll buy and amount we'll spend, but this Summer has been focussed as the big push because of our financial situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lucan said:

Assambolnga would shatter the wage structure - rumoured to be on 40k per week

£55k rumoured elsewhere too....certainly out of our league.

I’m mixed about him.  Like him as a powerful CF, but not sure he’s top drawer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RedM said:

I’m pretty sure prices will be raised as clubs know we have money, they are certain now if not before. I don’t think we will be held to ransom and won’t pay top money so I can see dealings difficult and people being disappointed.

I see your point but I believe that Ashton will , quite rightly, point out the fact that we need to sell players to pay the running costs of the club .

Whilst we are not a big club with parachute payments I believe that we have always been perceived as one that will pay the correct, fair  price for a new  player as our owner is not a mad foreign investor willing to sacrifice everything just to get their man.

I understand your point of view and it seems logical but most clubs know that we won’t be taken for a ride .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

CoD will be off so the revenue from that sale be added to the £13m already.....and LJ did say recently that he was planning to be ‘bold’ this summer so it’s looking like a really interesting window.

Most of us that watch City can see where the squad needs strengthening. Goalkeeper, left back, creative midfielder and up top and absolutely no doubt at all that LJ can see that as well.Those positions will have been identified and top of the shopping list.

As for Kalas wanting PL football......he’s a very useful Championship CB but when he played for his country both Sterling and Kane tore him a new arsehole.......PL quality he ain’t........

 

We all took ‘ bold ‘ to be buying big , what if he meant ‘ bold ‘ as in buying players like Cundy and Szmodics , throwing in academy players in to the first team ? 

That’s pretty bold .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

£55k rumoured elsewhere too....certainly out of our league.

I’m mixed about him.  Like him as a powerful CF, but not sure he’s top drawer.

Certainly not the best of finishers.

7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

We all took ‘ bold ‘ to be buying big , what if he meant ‘ bold ‘ as in buying players like Cundy and Szmodics , throwing in academy players in to the first team ? 

That’s pretty bold .

And cheap

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

We all took ‘ bold ‘ to be buying big , what if he meant ‘ bold ‘ as in buying players like Cundy and Szmodics , throwing in academy players in to the first team ? 

That’s pretty bold .

Not that many academy graduates develop enough ability to grace the first team. In recent times only Reid, Bryan and Kelly became regulars.

In time Vyner might become one but the jury’s out on him as it is with Morrell.

The point is that these academy players need something special to become established first teamers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Robbored said:

CoD will be off so the revenue from that sale be added to the £13m already.....and LJ did say recently that he was planning to be ‘bold’ this summer so it’s looking like a really interesting window.

Most of us that watch City can see where the squad needs strengthening. Goalkeeper, left back, creative midfielder and up top and absolutely no doubt at all that LJ can see that as well.Those positions will have been identified and top of the shopping list.

As for Kalas wanting PL football......he’s a very useful Championship CB but when he played for his country both Sterling and Kane tore him a new arsehole.......PL quality he ain’t........

 

Sterling the Premier League player of the year and Kane one of the top goal scorers in the Premier League over the last 5 years - them you mean?

Hardly a fair assessment. Kalas didn’t have a great game that night, but he was playing as part of a very limited Czech side and the two players you’ve identified have caused problems for pretty much every Premier League defence this season.

We’ve seen enough of Kalas - and Webster for that matter - to know that he is quality, and could very easily be a good addition to a lower Premier League squad. We will do well to hang on to either of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sterling the Premier League player of the year and Kane one of the top goal scorers in the Premier League over the last 5 years - them you mean?

Hardly a fair assessment. Kalas didn’t have a great game that night, but he was playing as part of a very limited Czech side and the two players you’ve identified have caused problems for pretty much every Premier League defence this season.

We’ve seen enough of Kalas - and Webster for that matter - to know that he is quality, and could very easily be a good addition to a lower Premier League squad. We will do well to hang on to either of them.

Maybe, yet even Fulham didn't try to sign him when they went up despite a successful loan there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sterling the Premier League player of the year and Kane one of the top goal scorers in the Premier League over the last 5 years - them you mean?

Hardly a fair assessment. Kalas didn’t have a great game that night, but he was playing as part of a very limited Czech side and the two players you’ve identified have caused problems for pretty much every Premier League defence this season.

We’ve seen enough of Kalas - and Webster for that matter - to know that he is quality, and could very easily be a good addition to a lower Premier League squad. We will do well to hang on to either of them.

My point is that should Kalas get his wish and join a PL club he’d be up against strikers of Kane and Sterling  quality pretty much every game.........If he can’t handle top strikers like those two imagine If was facing Salah, Vardy, Kukaku, Mane, Aguero, Sane....ect al.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Maybe, yet even Fulham didn't try to sign him when they went up despite a successful loan there.

Perhaps in hindsight £10m might’ve been good value, and a player who already knew the set up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Perhaps in hindsight £10m might’ve been good value, and a player who already knew the set up?

Yes they got it badly wrong all round with their recruitment. Is it the owner's son who is effectively in charge of that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Robbored said:

My point is that should Kalas get his wish and join a PL club he’d be up against strikers of Kane and Sterling  quality pretty much every game.........If he can’t handle top strikers like those two imagine If was facing Salah, Vardy, Kukaku, Mane, Aguero, Mane....ect al.

I think most CB's would struggle against 2 Sadio Mane's

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, eastonboy said:

I think most CB's would struggle against 2 Sadio Mane's

But not as much as against  team of Ivan Sproules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

Yes they got it badly wrong all round with their recruitment. Is it the owner's son who is effectively in charge of that?

On paper a fair few of the signings were technically sound. From a decent level too- far too many changes though.

Should've signed Kalas and Norwood permanently for a start and if at all possible retained Fredericks and Targett.

That and their mad dash before the season, set the tone for their failure IMO. Lessons to learn there for sure!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of how much we can spend.

It depends if we want to spend some this year and make 2020/21 a huge push- how do we want to go about it for a start (SL, LJ or MA if you're reading this, an indicator of which strategy would be welcome :laugh: ).

In other words do we want to take it up to the likely limit this year or keep a chunk in reserve knowing that the £24m, £20m adjusted for FFP drops off in summer 2020 and the new starting point being the profits we made in summer 2020- huge leeway if the latter. The downside is it'd be a year wasted and we may lose more of our better players- that is why I think keeping Kelly would have been ambitious, a statement of intent! For want of a better word- "BOLD!"

I'd suggest we broke even last season, though maybe I'm underestimating wages- let's say we made a smallish loss say around £4m- you lop £4m per year off for allowable costs i.e. academy, infrastructure, depreciation, community and the like then that is a break even in FFP.

£39m + £4m + £4m + £4m=£51m.

I'd suggest roughly, that maybe when we total it up- we're talking fees, wages and the like if we want to make this a summer a bit of a shit or bust- again dependent on Lansdown- then maybe we can make a loss of £31m- so that'd be a gross spend of £20m once the Kelly revenue factored in- plus whatever brought in from Watkins, O'Dowda, and if sold, Baker, Wright, Diedhiou, Taylor. Maybe more given wages saved on the 3 released at the start of the summer.

That is why though we can spend, we cannot go nuts- creativity in the market is a must. I suppose Smodzics, Brown from Forest Green or the Bath defender may count as that, but I question their ability to help us kick on but we'll see I guess- if they have interest from sides such as Derby and Leeds they could turn out to be bargains?

If there are useful free transfers and I think subject to vagaries e.g. fitness or questions on wages- money incoming or not, turning our nose up would be foolish IMO- a balanced approach. The right player, not the most expensive player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...