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bcfctim

Unpopular Opinions

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As we enter the quiet period of the year, thought this might be a good idea as a thread to keep people amused between hourly refreshes of the Transfer Forum and desperate exclamations as to our lack of ambition because we haven't yet signed A.New Striker/DaSilva/Kalas/Reece James/Fernandinho

I'll start: with something I've thought for a while but may well be in a minority of 1. I think a European Super League would be a great thing for football.

1. All of the tourists and mercenaries and month-long Twitter sagas over whether Paul Pogba has changed his boot sponsors and everything else people hate about modern football would be hoovered up and taken away to another room where if we don't like it we don't have to look at it.

2. What remains of the domestic game may return to some semblance of normality. A return to a genuine meritocracy where you couldn't be sure before the start of each new season exactly who was going to finish where. The opportunity for anyone within reason to have a shot at challenging with a combination of talented coaching or players or both alone. The chance for the FA Cup to return to some of its former glory.

One of the most popular refrains you hear in recent times is how the Championship is actually a lot more fun to be a part of as a football fan than the Premier League. But, as fans, we live with the constant paradox of the entire point of the exercise being to get from where we like being to where we don't like being, and without that quest the whole thing would cease to be enjoyable.

But if the elite broke away, we would be left with the best of both worlds: all the competitiveness and "real-fan" culture of the Championship without having to sacrifice it for the sake of glory or accomplishment.

3. It would represent a huge opportunity for Bristol City to take a giant leap forward as a football club virtually overnight. You look at who would be left, teams like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle would now be the cream of the crop. With our development and newfound professionalism on and off the pitch and as a genuine big City club with a huge catchment area, we may finally after all these years be in a position to capitalise on our status as that horrible phrase: Sleeping Giants. We could genuinely, if the stars aligned, be capable of competing with the above clubs as real contenders at the pinnacle of the English game. 

This could be, and for any of you Gasheads reading frothing at the mouth I am exaggerating for the sake of argument, our version of Man Utd appointing Sir Alex Ferguson in 1986. Coming into our prime as a football club just on the brink of the biggest shakeup to the professional game since 92.

And I haven't even mentioned that as someone who enjoys watching football as well as being a football fan, I find the prospect of a European League intriguing. Who would, over the course of a full league season, come on top out of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Man City, PSG, Liverpool? I genuinely have no idea. And that would be really exciting as a spectacle. Would anyone come to dominate? Or would, with a closed system akin to that of the NFL, we see something resembling parity - itself a good thing? I'd love to find out.

 

So, yeah. Any thoughts - or anyone reckon they can one-up that?

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2 minutes ago, Unan said:

Winning the Premier League this season is a bigger achievement than winning the Champions League.

For Man City/Liverpool, yeah - that's a fair shout.

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5 minutes ago, bcfctim said:

As we enter the quiet period of the year, thought this might be a good idea as a thread to keep people amused between hourly refreshes of the Transfer Forum and desperate exclamations as to our lack of ambition because we haven't yet signed A.New Striker/DaSilva/Kalas/Reece James/Fernandinho

I'll start: with something I've thought for a while but may well be in a minority of 1. I think a European Super League would be a great thing for football.

1. All of the tourists and mercenaries and month-long Twitter sagas over whether Paul Pogba has changed his boot sponsors and everything else people hate about modern football would be hoovered up and taken away to another room where if we don't like it we don't have to look at it.

2. What remains of the domestic game may return to some semblance of normality. A return to a genuine meritocracy where you couldn't be sure before the start of each new season exactly who was going to finish where. The opportunity for anyone within reason to have a shot at challenging with a combination of talented coaching or players or both alone. The chance for the FA Cup to return to some of its former glory.

One of the most popular refrains you hear in recent times is how the Championship is actually a lot more fun to be a part of as a football fan than the Premier League. But, as fans, we live with the constant paradox of the entire point of the exercise being to get from where we like being to where we don't like being, and without that quest the whole thing would cease to be enjoyable.

But if the elite broke away, we would be left with the best of both worlds: all the competitiveness and "real-fan" culture of the Championship without having to sacrifice it for the sake of glory or accomplishment.

3. It would represent a huge opportunity for Bristol City to take a giant leap forward as a football club virtually overnight. You look at who would be left, teams like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle would now be the cream of the crop. With our development and newfound professionalism on and off the pitch and as a genuine big City club with a huge catchment area, we may finally after all these years be in a position to capitalise on our status as that horrible phrase: Sleeping Giants. We could genuinely, if the stars aligned, be capable of competing with the above clubs as real contenders at the pinnacle of the English game. 

This could be, and for any of you Gasheads reading frothing at the mouth I am exaggerating for the sake of argument, our version of Man Utd appointing Sir Alex Ferguson in 1986. Coming into our prime as a football club just on the brink of the biggest shakeup to the professional game since 92.

And I haven't even mentioned that as someone who enjoys watching football as well as being a football fan, I find the prospect of a European League intriguing. Who would, over the course of a full league season, come on top out of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Man City, PSG, Liverpool? I genuinely have no idea. And that would be really exciting as a spectacle. Would anyone come to dominate? Or would, with a closed system akin to that of the NFL, we see something resembling parity - itself a good thing? I'd love to find out.

 

So, yeah. Any thoughts - or anyone reckon they can one-up that?

Been saying the same for ages. The debacle of a Cup Final only reinforces that belief.

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Our Domestic football is far more important than a European super rich boys club league. Not interested one little bit. 

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25 minutes ago, fatchers said:

Our Domestic football is far more important than a European super rich boys club league. Not interested one little bit. 

I think our domestic football would be improved by it

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6 minutes ago, bcfctim said:

I think our domestic football would be improved by it

I like your idea, however when you start thinking about how the concept would be implemented and what teams it would involve, it seems to cause far too many problems.  How many big clubs from each league would enter?  What impact would it have on the England team?  Would the teams remaining in the English top tier have any form of European competition?  Perhaps the European Cup, but it would be massively second fiddle to the Super League.

The Premier League is totally unique as it has 6 very big clubs, who would all demand to be involved.  It would be interesting if they tried the single league format for one season as opposed to the knock-out style of the Champion's League later rounds.

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1 hour ago, bcfctim said:

I think our domestic football would be improved by it

Can’t agree. Look at how the leagues in smaller countries like Scotland and Holland have been sidelined by the money in (particularly) England and Spain.

A European Super League would have to be a self contained bubble (promotion and relegation couldn’t work). It would suck all the money and best players out of all the other systems and become a superheated version of the EPL. The residual leagues would lose all their status and publicity. Disaster. Sure, smaller clubs could win it, but nobody would care. The chance for eg Ajax to break into the elite would disappear. What we have now is better.

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There are alot of "big" clubs around Europe that are used to winning leagues in there own countries who would win nothing year after year in a European super League, how long would there plastic fan's keep handing out money when they are now only an also ran

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I've always hated the idea but that's the best argument I've heard for it ever. Even swaying me a bit.

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3 hours ago, bcfctim said:

As we enter the quiet period of the year, thought this might be a good idea as a thread to keep people amused between hourly refreshes of the Transfer Forum and desperate exclamations as to our lack of ambition because we haven't yet signed A.New Striker/DaSilva/Kalas/Reece James/Fernandinho

I'll start: with something I've thought for a while but may well be in a minority of 1. I think a European Super League would be a great thing for football.

1. All of the tourists and mercenaries and month-long Twitter sagas over whether Paul Pogba has changed his boot sponsors and everything else people hate about modern football would be hoovered up and taken away to another room where if we don't like it we don't have to look at it.

2. What remains of the domestic game may return to some semblance of normality. A return to a genuine meritocracy where you couldn't be sure before the start of each new season exactly who was going to finish where. The opportunity for anyone within reason to have a shot at challenging with a combination of talented coaching or players or both alone. The chance for the FA Cup to return to some of its former glory.

One of the most popular refrains you hear in recent times is how the Championship is actually a lot more fun to be a part of as a football fan than the Premier League. But, as fans, we live with the constant paradox of the entire point of the exercise being to get from where we like being to where we don't like being, and without that quest the whole thing would cease to be enjoyable.

But if the elite broke away, we would be left with the best of both worlds: all the competitiveness and "real-fan" culture of the Championship without having to sacrifice it for the sake of glory or accomplishment.

3. It would represent a huge opportunity for Bristol City to take a giant leap forward as a football club virtually overnight. You look at who would be left, teams like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle would now be the cream of the crop. With our development and newfound professionalism on and off the pitch and as a genuine big City club with a huge catchment area, we may finally after all these years be in a position to capitalise on our status as that horrible phrase: Sleeping Giants. We could genuinely, if the stars aligned, be capable of competing with the above clubs as real contenders at the pinnacle of the English game. 

This could be, and for any of you Gasheads reading frothing at the mouth I am exaggerating for the sake of argument, our version of Man Utd appointing Sir Alex Ferguson in 1986. Coming into our prime as a football club just on the brink of the biggest shakeup to the professional game since 92.

And I haven't even mentioned that as someone who enjoys watching football as well as being a football fan, I find the prospect of a European League intriguing. Who would, over the course of a full league season, come on top out of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Man City, PSG, Liverpool? I genuinely have no idea. And that would be really exciting as a spectacle. Would anyone come to dominate? Or would, with a closed system akin to that of the NFL, we see something resembling parity - itself a good thing? I'd love to find out.

 

So, yeah. Any thoughts - or anyone reckon they can one-up that?

In a few years I can see there being a European League with the best teams being in that but also having a second string for the Premier League.

Squads are so big that a second squad for Man City and the like would finish top half in the Premier League with a few more signings.  Even more revenue for the big boys as well.  

They would have a different manager for domestic and European leagues. 

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The Premier League minus the top 6 clubs (plus Aston Villa, of course because surely, they’ll also be invited to join?) will likely result in a drastic reduction in Sky sponsorship money both to the Premier League and the EFL which will have a ripple effect throughout the league as clubs find themselves unable to afford player contracts to which they are already committed. No doubt several clubs would go to the wall as a result. 

A European League such as that described in the OP would, I believe, create an oligopoly whereby the rich can’t stop making money and the poor are unable to make any. It’s creation would move the clubs involved into a new stratosphere which would surely result, one day, in a World League but would spell the end for so many clubs. It would certainly be life Jim, but not as we know it. 

Its a ‘No’ from me. 

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27 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I really like Robbored’s informative and amusing posts and would love him to post more often .

What forum are they on and do you have to sign up?

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3 hours ago, Unan said:

League football is better than the Premier league, although probably not unpopular on here.

I thought we were doing unpopular opinions?

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2 hours ago, Leveller said:

Can’t agree. Look at how the leagues in smaller countries like Scotland and Holland have been sidelined by the money in (particularly) England and Spain.

A European Super League would have to be a self contained bubble (promotion and relegation couldn’t work). It would suck all the money and best players out of all the other systems and become a superheated version of the EPL. The residual leagues would lose all their status and publicity. Disaster. Sure, smaller clubs could win it, but nobody would care. The chance for eg Ajax to break into the elite would disappear. What we have now is better.

The clubs in that bubble could only hoover up so many players so I reckon there would be enough to go around. In fact, it might create a sane environment in terms of player wages, meaning TV money is no longer the be all.

I would personally take it further and tell all those clubs who go off to the Euro league that they ain't coming back, and cannot enter any of the cup competitions either.

What we then need is for fans of the remainers to cancel their BT Sport and Sky subs and that will really **** them up particularly if it happened all across Europe because they would probably have to play matches to fit in with their Asian audiences.

The thing is though, who qualifies to enter the super league if it is  ringfenced from the outset ? No doubt our top six would see themselves as automatic selections but you can't fit every big club into a league of say 18 can you.

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1 hour ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

The Premier League minus the top 6 clubs (plus Aston Villa, of course because surely, they’ll also be invited to join?) will likely result in a drastic reduction in Sky sponsorship money both to the Premier League and the EFL which will have a ripple effect throughout the league as clubs find themselves unable to afford player contracts to which they are already committed. No doubt several clubs would go to the wall as a result. 

A European League such as that described in the OP would, I believe, create an oligopoly whereby the rich can’t stop making money and the poor are unable to make any. It’s creation would move the clubs involved into a new stratosphere which would surely result, one day, in a World League but would spell the end for so many clubs. It would certainly be life Jim, but not as we know it. 

Its a ‘No’ from me. 

I'm with this guy. Admittedly I'm not a fan of change, inc VAR. And goal line tech. Leave our game alone !

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Scrap the Champions League format and go back to champions only.

Scrap the Premier League and go back to all Football League, including National League, with a fairer share out of the TV money.

No parachute payments.

I know it will never happen, but with the number of clubs in the country, it's the only fair way to go. We have to remember that our professional league system is unique in so many ways.

All other countries are regionalised by league three, many of their second league teams are Top Tier second teams and attendance's at all of the four divisions below current Premier League are much higher than any comparable level in Europe.

It would do some of the big clubs in England, good to fall from grace occasionally as Man U, Chelsea and Spurs did in the 1970/1980's.

End of rant and dream for more equality in our football leagues.

Edited by cidered abroad
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3 hours ago, Leveller said:

Can’t agree. Look at how the leagues in smaller countries like Scotland and Holland have been sidelined by the money in (particularly) England and Spain.

A European Super League would have to be a self contained bubble (promotion and relegation couldn’t work). It would suck all the money and best players out of all the other systems and become a superheated version of the EPL. The residual leagues would lose all their status and publicity. Disaster. Sure, smaller clubs could win it, but nobody would care. The chance for eg Ajax to break into the elite would disappear. What we have now is better.

Fair enough, I can understand that. I don't think coverage will just dry up and disappear - look how much Sky show of the Championship these days. There would still be a huge huge number of people in this country who will be invested in what remains minus the top 6, and TV companies, sponsors etc aren't just going to suddenly stop going after their wallets. Sure - they'd be less money, but it many ways it's the sheer amount of money currently in the game that is the source of it's problems. (Edit: plus what is left could be more evenly distributed)

Teams in England and abroad will still be able to compete among and against each other, it will almost become like 2 different sports in a sense, which I accept is unpalatable but at this point I think it's just a necessary evil.

People will complain about there being less money and exposure but the main thing people moan about nowadays is there being too much of those things.

Edited by bcfctim

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4 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I like your idea, however when you start thinking about how the concept would be implemented and what teams it would involve, it seems to cause far too many problems.  How many big clubs from each league would enter?  What impact would it have on the England team?  Would the teams remaining in the English top tier have any form of European competition?  Perhaps the European Cup, but it would be massively second fiddle to the Super League.

The Premier League is totally unique as it has 6 very big clubs, who would all demand to be involved.  It would be interesting if they tried the single league format for one season as opposed to the knock-out style of the Champion's League later rounds.

In England it would work relatively straightforwardly - as you say just the current top 6. Would be more difficult across the channel admittedly, in terms of how many teams and from which leagues. It could be that you have multiple divisions within an 'ESL' system in order to accommodate.

It would and could only work with a closed shop though, I think. Promotion and relegation would just be too complex. But whilst that is anethema, again - necessary evils. The game isn't in good health at the minute let's face it. Competitively or in any other sense. Something needs to give.

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3 hours ago, Highburnred said:

There are alot of "big" clubs around Europe that are used to winning leagues in there own countries who would win nothing year after year in a European super League, how long would there plastic fan's keep handing out money when they are now only an also ran

Wouldn't that be more interesting for them, though? If I was a Celtic fan I'd be bored stiff. And they're never going to improve as things are, they're only going to get dragged down and stagnate, and the gap between the haves and the have-nots grow increasingly wider. It's essentially already a 2-tier system as it is. Might as well just bite the bullet.

I know people are going to bring up Ajax and Tottenham here, but

a) They'd both probably be included in any European League anyway and,

b) Those kind of upsets are becoming rarer and rarer and, barring the outlier that is the last couple of years, will only continue to do so.

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2 hours ago, RedDave said:

In a few years I can see there being a European League with the best teams being in that but also having a second string for the Premier League.

Squads are so big that a second squad for Man City and the like would finish top half in the Premier League with a few more signings.  Even more revenue for the big boys as well.  

They would have a different manager for domestic and European leagues. 

That's a very good point - I think you may be right. That's how they'll get b teams in.

(Edit: but that I wouldn't agree with. Domestic teams will become feeder clubs, that much is inevitable, but the systems should remain completely separate - like in America with the NFL and College football)

Edited by bcfctim

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42 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Scrap the Champions League format and go back to champions only.

Scrap the Premier League and go back to all Football League, including National League, with a fairer share out of the TV money.

No parachute payments.

I know it will never happen, but with the number of clubs in the country, it's the only fair way to go. We have to remember that our professional league system is unique in so many ways.

All other countries are regionalised by league three, many of their second league teams are Top Tier second teams and attendance's at all of the four divisions below current Premier League are much higher than any comparable level in Europe.

It would do some of the big clubs in England, good to fall from grace occasionally as Man U, Chelsea and Spurs did in the 1970/1980's.

End of rant and dream for more equality in our football leagues.

I think the way you create equality is to cut out the weeds and separate them from the roots for good.

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O'Dowda's goal at Norwich wasn't as good as people make out. 

Kodjia is the best player I've seen play for City in the past 20 years. 

Heaton was nothing more than an average keeper for us. Overrated by many because of what he's gone on to achieve since. Can't believe some people say he was better than Basso. 

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6 hours ago, Unan said:

League football is better than the Premier league, although probably not unpopular on here.

In terms of quality it's miles behind obviously but you do get some good watchable games in the FL apart from that Sunderland v Pompey game which was one of the worst games I have ever seen!

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The underlying problem is how a ESL would compete with domestic football, and how players split themselves between domestic/international football and playing in a franchised system.

I can't see a ESL ever happening because FIFA/UEFA would tell any player involved that playing in an external franchised league system would mean they are no longer eligible to play for their national team, and I can't see many players wanting to sacrifice their national team future to play for a bit more money.

If all sides can somehow get around this, I share your belief that the domestic game (in this country at least) won't suffer with the loss of the European giants. IMO, it'd been business as usual for most of us.

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23 hours ago, BessexRED said:

Jack Hunt's the best right back we've had since Orr, whereas Bailey Wright in that position is absolute tripe.

I thought these were meant to be unpopular opinions?

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On 20/05/2019 at 07:00, bcfctim said:

As we enter the quiet period of the year, thought this might be a good idea as a thread to keep people amused between hourly refreshes of the Transfer Forum and desperate exclamations as to our lack of ambition because we haven't yet signed A.New Striker/DaSilva/Kalas/Reece James/Fernandinho

I'll start: with something I've thought for a while but may well be in a minority of 1. I think a European Super League would be a great thing for football.

1. All of the tourists and mercenaries and month-long Twitter sagas over whether Paul Pogba has changed his boot sponsors and everything else people hate about modern football would be hoovered up and taken away to another room where if we don't like it we don't have to look at it.

2. What remains of the domestic game may return to some semblance of normality. A return to a genuine meritocracy where you couldn't be sure before the start of each new season exactly who was going to finish where. The opportunity for anyone within reason to have a shot at challenging with a combination of talented coaching or players or both alone. The chance for the FA Cup to return to some of its former glory.

One of the most popular refrains you hear in recent times is how the Championship is actually a lot more fun to be a part of as a football fan than the Premier League. But, as fans, we live with the constant paradox of the entire point of the exercise being to get from where we like being to where we don't like being, and without that quest the whole thing would cease to be enjoyable.

But if the elite broke away, we would be left with the best of both worlds: all the competitiveness and "real-fan" culture of the Championship without having to sacrifice it for the sake of glory or accomplishment.

3. It would represent a huge opportunity for Bristol City to take a giant leap forward as a football club virtually overnight. You look at who would be left, teams like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle would now be the cream of the crop. With our development and newfound professionalism on and off the pitch and as a genuine big City club with a huge catchment area, we may finally after all these years be in a position to capitalise on our status as that horrible phrase: Sleeping Giants. We could genuinely, if the stars aligned, be capable of competing with the above clubs as real contenders at the pinnacle of the English game. 

This could be, and for any of you Gasheads reading frothing at the mouth I am exaggerating for the sake of argument, our version of Man Utd appointing Sir Alex Ferguson in 1986. Coming into our prime as a football club just on the brink of the biggest shakeup to the professional game since 92.

And I haven't even mentioned that as someone who enjoys watching football as well as being a football fan, I find the prospect of a European League intriguing. Who would, over the course of a full league season, come on top out of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Man City, PSG, Liverpool? I genuinely have no idea. And that would be really exciting as a spectacle. Would anyone come to dominate? Or would, with a closed system akin to that of the NFL, we see something resembling parity - itself a good thing? I'd love to find out.

 

So, yeah. Any thoughts - or anyone reckon they can one-up that?

Just found the Bolton thread and might as well just copy the link - it's an argument all in itself.

People talk about wage caps, scrapping parachute payments - these things will never happen in a million years unless the big clubs break away.

The system's broken. This is the way to fix it.

Edited by bcfctim

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Everytime the subject of a European League comes up people say the same thing: "It would be the death of football".

It's the polar opposite - it would be the rebirth.

"Classic example of the big club's greed"

Yes. Exactly. So let them **** off. I can't understand why anyone would want to fight to keep them around.

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What's the biggest problem with the game? The Sky money at the top distorting the competition. 

What's the biggest complaint about the ESL? All the Sky money would go out of the game.

Why does nobody seem to get it? It's the perfect solution.

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This City team is far greater than the sum of its parts. I wouldn’t bet on any of the guys making it long term in the top league. At best squad players or part of relegation candidates. See Bryan, Reid.

Before I get jumped on, this isn’t an insult. We have lots of good players like Webster and Brownhill but I genuinely believe they are benefiting hugely from being part of a good system. A good team with no outrageously good talents...

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54 minutes ago, bcfctim said:

What's the biggest problem with the game? The Sky money at the top distorting the competition. 

What's the biggest complaint about the ESL? All the Sky money would go out of the game.

Why does nobody seem to get it? It's the perfect solution.

I think a European Super League would lose its appeal after 2 or 3 years & would be horrible for the fans of these clubs. 

Your sit at home TV supporters would love it, but fans who actually go to games would be priced out even further than they already are. 

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I love being in the Championship.

Teams can finish in the POs one year and struggle the next, and vice versa. Good well managed teams that just click can go up, we don’t know what the top six will be before we start. Just about every game is competitive.

No, we should not ‘go for it’ mortgaging the future of the club. There will always be teams in this league with more money than us. If promotion happens it happens. Would love it of course, but not gutted if we don’t.

This is one of the best, most competitive, and well support leagues in the world. It’s actually ok.

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28 minutes ago, cityexile said:

I love being in the Championship.

Teams can finish in the POs one year and struggle the next, and vice versa. Good well managed teams that just click can go up, we don’t know what the top six will be before we start. Just about every game is competitive.

No, we should not ‘go for it’ mortgaging the future of the club. There will always be teams in this league with more money than us. If promotion happens it happens. Would love it of course, but not gutted if we don’t.

This is one of the best, most competitive, and well support leagues in the world. It’s actually ok.

Thanks for that Steve - how long have you been posting as city exile ( don't think I'd regard Guernsey as exile though!) :)

 

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1. International football is not the pinnacle and is actually pretty boring. 

2. Watching football on TV is boring. 

 

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10 hours ago, cityexile said:

I love being in the Championship.

Me too. The championship is the best league to watch. More competitive with a real chance to win any match and to rise up the ranks over the years. Cheaper season ticket prices and tickets reliably available if you want to take friends or family. Easy to get away tickets.

In the prem, getting up to mid table would be an amazing achievement for us and every season we'd face a real prospect of a relegation struggle. We'd watch way more losses and go home pissed off far more often.

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Aden Flint wasn't actually that good as a defender.

Albert Adomah wasn't that great either, he used to leave huge gaps in our team.

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On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 13:05, Robin1988 said:

Our fanbase is more fickle, impatient and aggressive than most.

A vocal minority of our fanbase is the reason we can't have nice things

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