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Eastside Moonwalker

Lee Johnson Contract Talks EDIT : New 4 Year Deal Signed

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6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ha! 

Any boss on a smaller wedge than his employees leaves them open to being undermined. 

eg : ‘“you can’t tell me what to do because I earn more than you and that makes me more important than you “.  :cool2:

Your logic is sound - but you've forgotten that football isn't logical!

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ha! 

Any boss on a smaller wedge than his employees leaves them open to being undermined. 

eg : ‘“you can’t tell me what to do because I earn more than you and that makes me more important than you “.  :cool2:

But LJ isn't the players ‘boss’ is he? 

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17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Do you earn more than your boss?      :dunno:

Since when has football been in any way comparable with the employment most of us will have.

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14 minutes ago, DaveF said:

But LJ isn't the players ‘boss’ is he? 

Of course he is.........jeez.........:disapointed2se:

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50 minutes ago, eastonboy said:

****BREAKING OLD NEWS ****

Robbored spouts bollocks shocker!!

 

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7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of course he is.........jeez.........:disapointed2se:

Not in the same sense as in a normal line of work. For example LJ doesn’t have the power to sack Pack.

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I think this is great news and bodes well on so many levels. I’ve been excited ever since I spied him sitting next to the Messiah at Charlton all them years ago.

I firmly believe Little Lee will take us to the promised land. I don’t buy the Lansdown and Ashton shit but if it’s good enough for LJ then I’m happy to be called a *** and to be proved wrong 😃

Bet all those who wasted time, energy and paint on their bed sheet banners are feeling themselves now.... Looking forlornly at their stained sheets.....

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42 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Do you earn more than your boss?      :dunno:

Yes. I do. Considerably more.

What’s your point?

Get in and polish your jack. You’ve got a game coming up. Surely 😃

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3 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Not in the same sense as in a normal line of work. For example LJ doesn’t have the power to sack Pack.

He could if he had the grounds for dismissal.

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1 minute ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Yes. I do. Considerably more.

What’s your point?

Get in and polish your jack. You’ve got a game coming up. Surely 😃

You do? 

Are you on a production line bonus? 

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6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of course he is.........jeez.........:disapointed2se:

No, he isn't.

Consider Pochettino's quote:

“If you are the manager, you decide many things about the club. But if you are a head coach, your responsibility is to play better, try to improve the players and to get positive results.”

“At Southampton, I was a manager. My responsibility was not only to coach the team. With Tottenham, I am a head coach.  A head coach is head of your department. My department is to train the team.”

Your favourite OS lists LJ as Head Coach. A head coach is only given the responsibility of ensuring his team putting a good performance in the match they are playing. That includes the likes of choosing a first team and training the players in specific sets of routines required for their position in the team. The management of the team is under the club board.

Johnson could recommend players are signed/released/sacked whatever, but he isn't their boss. The final decision is someone else's. He will not be paid as much as some of the players.

You often criticise people on here for not understanding things or speaking without knowledge. That's precisely what you are doing here. Very hypocritical.

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Guidelines

Bristol City Fans' Forum (OTIB)

There is no limit to the number of posts a person can make, though we do ask that any posts made add to the debate. Repetitive comments, short replies, posts that are deemed to be intentionally antagonistic etc. may result in the moderators restricting a user's posting privileges.

 

 

@TomF @Dollymarie @elhombrecito @RedM Can you enforce the forum rules please

Edited by Unan
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7 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

I think this is great news and bodes well on so many levels. I’ve been excited ever since I spied him sitting next to the Messiah at Charlton all them years ago.

I firmly believe Little Lee will take us to the promised land. I don’t buy the Lansdown and Ashton shit but if it’s good enough for LJ then I’m happy to be called a *** and to be proved wrong 😃

Bet all those who wasted time, energy and paint on their bed sheet banners are feeling themselves now.... Looking forlornly at their stained sheets.....

Packing my 'jOnssen Out Mijit' banner back in the airing cupboard as I type. 

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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You do? 

Are you on a production line bonus? 

Bloody well do. And that was after taking a £10k pay cut 7 years ago to do the job...

But I am talented. Even if I say so myself 😂

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1 minute ago, Coppello said:

Packing my 'jOnssen Out Mijit' banner back in the airing cupboard as I type. 

No way. I’ve read your company structure and FFP posts. Far to intelligent to waste a good bed sheet.... 😃

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6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He could if he had the grounds for dismissal.

Would need to go to someone higher up to get it done though

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Sounds like it could have just been 'how long do you want?', 'how much will you need to spend?' .... 'Alright then'

 

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3 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

No, he isn't.

Consider Pochettino's quote:

“If you are the manager, you decide many things about the club. But if you are a head coach, your responsibility is to play better, try to improve the players and to get positive results.”

“At Southampton, I was a manager. My responsibility was not only to coach the team. With Tottenham, I am a head coach.  A head coach is head of your department. My department is to train the team.”

Your favourite OS lists LJ as Head Coach. A head coach is only given the responsibility of ensuring his team putting a good performance in the match they are playing. That includes the likes of choosing a first team and training the players in specific sets of routines required for their position in the team. The management of the team is under the club board.

Johnson could recommend players are signed/released/sacked whatever, but he isn't their boss. The final decision is someone else's. He will not be paid as much as some of the players.

You often criticise people on here for not understanding things or speaking without knowledge. That's precisely what you are doing here. Very hypocritical.

Let me put it another way so you’ll understand - when any player is interviewed they often mention ‘the gaffer’  by which they mean the manager. To them the gaffer is the boss. The person who can make or break your career.......To a player he is the only one that matters and the one you want to impress the most.

Of course the Head Coach has a wide area of responsibilities as you’ve highlighted and he is the main man - the boss of all things  related to football. 

Of course the ultimate boss is SL himself.

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Let me put it another way so you’ll understand - when any player is interviewed they often mention ‘the gaffer’  by which they mean the manager. To them the gaffer is the boss. The person who can make or break your career.......To a player he is the only one that matters and the one you want to impress the most.

Of course the Head Coach has a wide area of responsibilities as you’ve highlighted and he is the main man - the boss of all things  related to football. 

Of course the ultimate boss is SL himself.

Do you have to try really hard to be such a patronising weapon, or does it come naturally?

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15 minutes ago, hodge said:

Would need to go to someone higher up to get it done though

My daughter works in HR and is an expert in employment law. She currently works for the government with the Carillion  fiasco after the government took on the Carillion staff.........so.......along with my NHS experience and her extensive knowledge I’m quite aware of how difficult it is to dismiss anyone. 

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12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of course the Head Coach has a wide area of responsibilities as you’ve highlighted and he is the main man - the boss of all things  related to football.

Nope. Wrong again.

He is not the boss of all things related to football. Not at all.

Try again.

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30 minutes ago, Unan said:

Guidelines

Bristol City Fans' Forum (OTIB)

There is no limit to the number of posts a person can make, though we do ask that any posts made add to the debate. Repetitive comments, short replies, posts that are deemed to be intentionally antagonistic etc. may result in the moderators restricting a user's posting privileges.

 

 

@TomF @Dollymarie @elhombrecito @RedM Can you enforce the forum rules please

I think that is antagonistic.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Do you earn more than your boss?      :dunno:

Does Elton John’s manager earn more than the artist himself   ? 

Managers , generally do not earn more than their highest paid players .

They are there to orchestrate the ‘ artists ‘ .

 I have , as a  simple salesman, often in the past earned more than my manager as I could simply concentrate on selling and not worrying about a team , or pleasing my directors or writing out reports etc.

I see your logic but it isn’t completely sound .

 

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18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

My daughter works in HR and is an expert in employment law. She currently works for the government with the Carillion  fiasco after the government took on the Carillion staff.........so.......along with my NHS experience and her extensive knowledge I’m quite aware of how difficult it is to dismiss anyone. 

Reading between the lines here but are you saying when you worked for the NHS they tried to dismiss you?

Why was that then? 😃

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5 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Reading between the lines here but are you saying when you worked for the NHS they tried to dismiss you?

Why was that then? 😃

Obviously for being an antagonistic, argumentative ***.

These aren't my views, but the views that belong to my post.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

I’ll ask again. Do you earn more than your boss?

Our top earner is on a basic of £17k pw and LJ's last contract was £500k p.a.

You do the maaaaaath, as they'd say over the pond.

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52 minutes ago, Unan said:

Guidelines

Bristol City Fans' Forum (OTIB)

There is no limit to the number of posts a person can make, though we do ask that any posts made add to the debate. Repetitive comments, short replies, posts that are deemed to be intentionally antagonistic etc. may result in the moderators restricting a user's posting privileges.

 

 

@TomF @Dollymarie @elhombrecito @RedM Can you enforce the forum rules please

@Robbored is protected by the clique, no action to be taken.

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16 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Reading between the lines here but are you saying when you worked for the NHS they tried to dismiss you?

Why was that then? 😃

They met him.

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Robbored - do you believe anything that anyone says without the pointless questions? 

If you honestly believe managers are all paid higher than footballers that is up to you, it is obviously wrong though whether it is at our club or not. Ferguson was in a different game against todays game. Regardless of what you believe or not, why come back with "Do you earn more than your boss". Some sales reps will earn a lot more than their boss with their commission, a huge, huge majority of employees obviously wouldn't - but WTF has that got to do with a football players and managers wage??

 

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22 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

@Robbored is protected by the clique, no action to be taken.

The staff on OTIB have "done an EFL."

 
  1. When someone decides to opt out of a rather nerve racking task, instead of just growing some gonads and doing it.
     
    Mike: "yeah, Matt was gonna go on Oblivion at Alton Towers, but he totally done an EFL" 
Edited by Unan
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48 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

Nope. Wrong again.

He is not the boss of all things related to football. Not at all.

Try again.

Can he have a 50:50 or phone friend?

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3 hours ago, RedM said:

So we have both Pat Lam and Lee Johnson both getting four year deals within days of eachother, certainly the club is looking to the future. It does make me wish I had a crystal ball though and see where they both are, and more importantly how the teams are doing in four years time.

One thing's for certain, we'll still be above the sags.

You won't need a crystal ball for that!  👍

 

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1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Reading between the lines here but are you saying when you worked for the NHS they tried to dismiss you?

Why was that then? 😃

I was involved in the complicated business of trying to dismiss other people. There was always a HR representative involved to ensure that all procedures were followed correctly.

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Idiot decision in my view - what football manager ever deserved a four year contract - or rugby/cricket/NFL et al for that matter. Just a hope and a prayer but not good for the club !

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3 minutes ago, longyears said:

Idiot decision in my view - what football manager ever deserved a four year contract - or rugby/cricket/NFL et al for that matter. Just a hope and a prayer but not good for the club !

They are there to be sacked by someone who got ZERO clue. SL should sponsor a professor degree in football at the UNI 

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13 minutes ago, longyears said:

Idiot decision in my view - what football manager ever deserved a four year contract - or rugby/cricket/NFL et al for that matter. Just a hope and a prayer but not good for the club !

One word - stability.

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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I would be surprised if we are promoted in next four years. But that is for many reasons and not solely based on my opinion of Johnson.

The major change in club philosophy is that we INTEND to win promotion rather than we HOPE TO.

I fully understand how FFP impacts on our ambitions and that it is highly unlikely that we would knowingly break the rules and hope to get away with it, unlike some other clubs. So we aren't going to buy our way up like some clubs.

I'm pleased that Lansdown has given a very good degree of security for both Lam and Johnson, but one has produced a much greater degree of consistency with results and improved team performance while the other, in my opinion, has not.

If LJ can go a season without Boom & Bust results, provide us with a decent home record, then I may be able to feel more comfortable about him.

I now await with interest, how good our transfer dealings are, both in and out.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Lam.

Yes, the rugger boys were in a relegation battle all season whereas City did really well but he is a recognised top manager.

 

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Im on the fence with this one, I mean it's fine but what benefit does it really bring the club?

If he is poached by a bigger club city will get a few mill sure

But if ever the time comes to sack him it will cost more

Manager compensation is seldom a factor with clubs approach another clubs manager under contract.

 

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@Robbored you may well have a great understanding of employment law but you have a poor understanding of labor economics. And also of market dynamics in private businesses - there are many sectors in which staff members earn more than the CEO. Banking, energy... football. 

Actually now I’m thinking. LJ earns more than our highest paid director - i.e., his boss - and that is evidenced directly in our accounts. No dramas there. It’s just supply and demand like. 

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3 minutes ago, Lucan said:

Im on the fence with this one, I mean it's fine but what benefit does it really bring the club?

If he is poached by a bigger club city will get a few mill sure

But if ever the time comes to sack him it will cost more

Manager compensation is seldom a factor with clubs approach another clubs manager under contract.

 

SLs mantra is ‘sustainability and stability’ and by giving LJ a 4 year deal he’s adding to the stability already created by LJ and his assistants.

SL, quite rightly sees changing managers and all the backroom staff as hugely destabilising to the club - based on what he’s seen at AG over the years. 

If LJ gets poached by a bigger club then the vacancy will very likely be filled by one of the assistants who obviously know the club inside out.

Its kinda like the old Liverpool ‘boot room’ philosophy of appointing from within.

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I can't see what the fuss is about with the 4 year contract, SL wants him to stay he wants to stay and carry on what he has started, most but not all think he has done pretty well so far (despite some ups and downs) the trajectory is up so I think stability and keeping him is important.

When Cotterill became manager he was given a 3 and a half year contract, so not a great deal of difference. Did that cause the same amount of discussion at the time, I can't remember.

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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SLs mantra is ‘sustainability and stability’ and by giving LJ a 4 year deal he’s adding to the stability already created by LJ and his assistants.

SL, quite rightly sees changing managers and all the backroom staff as hugely destabilising to the club - based on what he’s seen at AG over the years. 

If LJ gets poached by a bigger club then the vacancy will very likely be filled by one of the assistants who obviously know the club inside out.

Its kinda like the old Liverpool ‘boot room’ philosophy of appointing from within.

And that's all fine, but how does a new contract actually help with stability?

Like I said, not much wrong with the idea and on balance LJ is more likely to be poached than sacked at this point in time, but the new contract won't actually change the liklehood of either in any big way

I'm not sure I get the boot room analogy either.  Do we have a policy of promotion from within?

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6 minutes ago, Lucan said:

And that's all fine, but how does a new contract actually help with stability?

Like I said, not much wrong with the idea and on balance LJ is more likely to be poached than sacked at this point in time, but the new contract won't actually change the liklehood of either in any big way

I'm not sure I get the boot room analogy either.  Do we have a policy of promotion from within?

A four year contract means that LJ will remain as Head Coach throughout that period and that equals stability. 

City do not yet have a policy of promotion from within because the situation has not arisen but should LJ get poached then the vacancy could well be filled by one of the assistants thereby creating a policy of internal appointment.

Thats exactly what Liverpool did during their glory days.

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9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

A four year contract means that LJ will remain as Head Coach throughout that period and that equals stability. 

City do not yet have a policy of promotion from within because the situation has not arisen but should LJ get poached then the vacancy could well be filled by one of the assistants thereby creating a policy of internal appointment.

Thats exactly what Liverpool did during their glory days.

It doesn't mean he will stay 4 years

Did Pardew stay for 7? 5 even?

Really, I can't see any correlation. Managers barely ever leave at the end of a contract and I can't recall many examples of clubs not approaching their desired managerial target because of the cost of buying it out. Not in the top league's especially.

As for your second point, I know that's what pool did during their glory years. I again see no correlation between the Liverpool, multi decade boot room system and Lee Johnson signing an extended contract.

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