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Eastside Moonwalker

Lee Johnson Contract Talks EDIT : New 4 Year Deal Signed

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40 minutes ago, Angmering Red said:

I can't see what the fuss is about with the 4 year contract, SL wants him to stay he wants to stay and carry on what he has started, most but not all think he has done pretty well so far (despite some ups and downs) the trajectory is up so I think stability and keeping him is important.

When Cotterill became manager he was given a 3 and a half year contract, so not a great deal of difference. Did that cause the same amount of discussion at the time, I can't remember.

Me neither. And if you think about it technically it is only another 3 years on from when LJ’s first contract was due to end in 2020. His first contract was for 3.5 years; that was the bigger risk and commitment. 

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15 minutes ago, Lucan said:

It doesn't mean he will stay 4 years

Really, I can't see any correlation. Managers barely ever leave at the end of a contract and I can't recall many examples of clubs not approaching their desired managerial target because of the cost of buying it out. Not in the top league's especially.

As for your second point, I know that's what pool did during their glory years. I again see no correlation between the Liverpool, multi decade boot room system and Lee Johnson signing an extended contract.

No it doesn’t mean LJ will stay for 4 years but he refers to Bristol City as ‘my club ‘ and that he ‘loves the club’ . He probably thinks he has his  dream job and I can’t see him going anywhere unless a big PL club come knocking and makes an offer he can’t refuse.

The concept of the ‘boot room’ is new at City but then it was new at Anfield when Shankley was there......why do you suppose that LJ was told to bring in his on assistants? It was so a team of backroom staff could start to develop with the idea of being able to promote from within should the need arise.

Edited by Robbored

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Honestly, I'm still not 100% convinced about Lee's skills, so I'm not sure he'll be able to lead us to the PL...but he's clearly committed to the club and supported by S.Lansdown and M.Ashton, so I hope that this unity will be the base to build a stronger team and that Lee's management will progress further. :flex:

 

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10 minutes ago, Dan Robin said:

Honestly, I'm still not 100% convinced about Lee's skills, so I'm not sure he'll be able to lead us to the PL...

What skills do you think LJ doesn’t have?

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3 hours ago, Unan said:

Guidelines

Bristol City Fans' Forum (OTIB)

There is no limit to the number of posts a person can make, though we do ask that any posts made add to the debate. Repetitive comments, short replies, posts that are deemed to be intentionally antagonistic etc. may result in the moderators restricting a user's posting privileges.

 

 

@TomF @Dollymarie @elhombrecito @RedM Can you enforce the forum rules please

They won’t though. I’ve asked the question and my post got deleted. Very disappointing 

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

A four year contract means that LJ will remain as Head Coach throughout that period and that equals stability. 

City do not yet have a policy of promotion from within because the situation has not arisen but should LJ get poached then the vacancy could well be filled by one of the assistants thereby creating a policy of internal appointment.

Thats exactly what Liverpool did during their glory days.

No it doesn’t. The dismissal or dismissals you were involved in. I bet those employees thought they had a job for life - being NHS 😂 - or the duration of their contracts.

Until Matron Robbo came along with his hatchet in his hand.....

And anyway If Little Lee and the Messiah fall out or if results dip I can’t see LJ staying the distance.

And as for that stability bollocks and back room staff stepping up. One word. Tinnion.

Modern day life is no longer like it was in the past or in the NHS. Jobs for the boys or dead man’s shoes no longer exist.

Do they? 😳

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27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

What skills do you think LJ doesn’t have?

It's not a problem of ''not having'', but ''things he can ameliorate'':  for exemple, the tactical difficulties against physical/defensive teams, or how he manage the players sometimes (regular starters picked even when they're clearly out of form, some players who arrive at AG and then disappear, etc.).

Obviously I'm talking about impressions/doubts from the perspetive of supporters, that can be right or wrong.

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6 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

No it doesn’t. The dismissal or dismissals you were involved in. I bet those employees thought they had a job for life - being NHS 😂 - or the duration of their contracts.

Until Matron Robbo came along with his hatchet in his hand.....

And anyway If Little Lee and the Messiah fall out or if results dip I can’t see LJ staying the distance.

And as for that stability bollocks and back room staff stepping up. One word. Tinnion.

Modern day life is no longer like it was in the past or in the NHS. Jobs for the boys or dead man’s shoes no longer exist.

Do they? 😳

Ok.......so you just don’t get what SL is trying to do..............:dunno:

Ive been retired over 9 years but I’m sure the NHS  disciplinary procedure is the same now as it was when I was involved. The same employment laws still apply. 

From memory - verbal warning, written warning, dismissal.

I worked with one particular guy who had received a verbal warning for a mistake that was made when dispensing tablets. He felt so resentful about it that he refused to take part in the drug round and kept a letter of resignation stored in his locker............:laugh:

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10 minutes ago, Dan Robin said:

It's not a problem of ''not having'', but ''things he can ameliorate'':  for exemple, the tactical difficulties against physical/defensive teams, or how he manage the players sometimes (regular starters picked even when they're clearly out of form, some players who arrive at AG and then disappear, etc.).

Obviously I'm talking about impressions/doubts from the perspetive of supporters, that can be completely  wrong.

 

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2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

I think you are being a bit harsh on Lam.

Yes, the rugger boys were in a relegation battle all season whereas City did really well but he is a recognised top manager.

 

You are not reading between the lines!

Pat Lam achieved what he set out to do at the beginnings of the season; to keep Bristol out of the relegation spot. In fact he did much better as Bristol's point total was the highest for any newly promoted team in eleven years.

City had a terrible home record especially after the turn of the year and once again, missed out on playoffs. Do you understand why I'm not his biggest fan? I want him to do well because City are my club, but he has yet to convince me and many others.

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New contracts mean nothing. Ask Chris Houghton . It was normal they gave him some vision over his future, a year too long in my view, but again, if the side implodes he will face the same music no matter what contract he has. I still remain sceptical , but you cannot doubt his desire and commitment. His family deserve some security in the very tough life of a football manager. 

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5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Do you earn more than your boss?      :dunno:

I earn more than my manager at work.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I earn more than my manager at work.

Let’s not feed him anymore. 

Sad that a thread which should be congratulatory on LJ getting a well deserved reward for consistently improving us year on year is derailed by a manual manipulator trying to get his kicks from a windup even though he clearly doesn’t believe his own bullshit; or discussions on Pat Lam. 

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

No it doesn’t mean LJ will stay for 4 years 

 

Thanks, it took a while but you finally agree

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

 

The concept of the ‘boot room’ is new at City but then it was new at Anfield when Shankley was there......why do you suppose that LJ was told to bring in his on assistants? It was so a team of backroom staff could start to develop with the idea of being able to promote from within should the need arise.

There is no boot room concept at City. You're talking nonsense.

Loads of managers bring in their own coaches and assistants...  

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16 minutes ago, Lucan said:

There is no boot room concept at City. You're talking nonsense.

Loads of managers bring in their own coaches and assistants...  

Ok.............:sleeping:

 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I earn more than my manager at work.

Does your manager at work, work under your level at work or do you just earn more than your Wife (she probably works harder) 🙂 

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1 hour ago, Lucan said:

There is no boot room concept at City. You're talking nonsense.

Loads of managers bring in their own coaches and assistants...  

And analysts, they're becoming a big one for managers to take club to club now.

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

No it doesn’t mean LJ will stay for 4 years but he refers to Bristol City as ‘my club ‘ and that he ‘loves the club’ . He probably thinks he has his  dream job and I can’t see him going anywhere unless a big PL club come knocking and makes an offer he can’t refuse.

The concept of the ‘boot room’ is new at City but then it was new at Anfield when Shankley was there......why do you suppose that LJ was told to bring in his on assistants? It was so a team of backroom staff could start to develop with the idea of being able to promote from within should the need arise.

It’s ‘Shankly’ ....

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54 minutes ago, reddoh said:

Does your manager at work, work under your level at work or do you just earn more than your Wife (she probably works harder) 🙂 

It’s not uncommon for a subservient to earn more than their superior. Management is quite different to a specialist skill set; such as being a playing professional following a set eating, training, sleeping, etc regime v setting that regime. Would YOU pay Steve Bruce more than Tammy? It’s like saying I’m not getting a tummy tuck from the worlds best surgeon because he’s fat. 

If I was running a 2 man business where I had the idea... would I want to get a substandard salesman who would earn less than I so they knew I was more important, or would I want the best who would earn more than I but together collectively we each earn better. Or to put it another way, would I want a head coach earning more and working with crap? If I was a head coach, would I say don’t pay me £Xk pw more, give it to, say Webster? Damn right I would.   

Only the very BIGGEST bellend measures their worth on their salary. That’s when you know someone has an inferiority complex, when their benchmark is earnings per week. That’s the kind of person who doesn’t treat people equally and with full respect. And I hope that person fails our DNA test; which RR would. Clearly. 

Edited by 29AR
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2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

It’s not uncommon for a subservient to earn more than their superior. Management is quite different to a specialist skill set; such as following a set eating, training, sleeping, etc regime. Would YOU pay Steve Bruce more than Tammy? 

If I was running a 2 man business where I had the idea... would I want to get a substandard salesman who would earn less than I so he knew I was more important, or would I want the best who would earn more than I but together collectively we each earn better. Or to put it another way, would I want a head coach earning more and working with crap? If I was a head coach, would I say don’t pay me £Xk pw more, give it to, say Webster? Damn right I would.   

Only the very BIGGEST bellend measures their worth on their salary. That’s when you know someone has an inferiority complex, when their benchmark is earnings per week. That’s the kind of person who doesn’t treat people equally and with full respect. 

Commie 😉

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5 minutes ago, Lucan said:

Commie 😉

Haha. When your other half works in mental health, you work in the corporate world, it does shake you up a bit and bring you slap bang down to earth when discussing the day over the pot noodles. 

Edited by 29AR
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10 minutes ago, 29AR said:

It’s not uncommon for a subservient to earn more than their superior. Management is quite different to a specialist skill set; such as being a playing professional following a set eating, training, sleeping, etc regime v setting that regime. Would YOU pay Steve Bruce more than Tammy? It’s like saying I’m not getting a tummy tuck from the worlds best surgeon because he’s fat. 

If I was running a 2 man business where I had the idea... would I want to get a substandard salesman who would earn less than I so he knew I was more important, or would I want the best who would earn more than I but together collectively we each earn better. Or to put it another way, would I want a head coach earning more and working with crap? If I was a head coach, would I say don’t pay me £Xk pw more, give it to, say Webster? Damn right I would.   

Only the very BIGGEST bellend measures their worth on their salary. That’s when you know someone has an inferiority complex, when their benchmark is earnings per week. That’s the kind of person who doesn’t treat people equally and with full respect. And I hope that person fails our DNA test; which RR would. Clearly. 

I have never judged someone on money ,religion , gender  or colour (translation for some(color) ) I tend to judge people on would I want to socialise with them but that doesn't make me a socialist 🙂

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9 minutes ago, reddoh said:

I have never judged someone on money ,religion , gender  or colour (translation for some(color) ) I tend to judge people on would I want to socialise with them but that doesn't make me a socialist 🙂

Me too.

God forbid I ever get coaching or guidance from someone earning less. 

Edited by 29AR

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5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Me too.

God forbid I ever get coaching or guidance from someone earning less, I mean if they earn less what the f do they know v me, the star. oh wait that’s Lee Tomlin. 

you are never too young to learn.

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I’ve earned far more than my managers in the past.  I could sell, they could deal with HR and interminable meetings.  Different skillset, didn’t mean I respected them any less.

RR just has the mentality of someone that’s worked for the public sector where it’s all set pay grades etc.   He probably thinks everyone has a final salary pension, sick pay etc.

If you’ve lived your life in the public sector bubble then you have no comprehension of the private.

 

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11 hours ago, Lucan said:

Im on the fence with this one, I mean it's fine but what benefit does it really bring the club?

If he is poached by a bigger club city will get a few mill sure

But if ever the time comes to sack him it will cost more

Manager compensation is seldom a factor with clubs approach another clubs manager under contract.

 

I'm certain there will be an agreed compensation figure if we were to dismiss him and it certainly wouldn't be for the full 4 years of the contact. 

There will also be clauses where LJ may well receive bonuses depending on meeting certain targets. 

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14 hours ago, Robbored said:

A four year contract means that LJ will remain as Head Coach throughout that period and that equals stability. 

City do not yet have a policy of promotion from within because the situation has not arisen but should LJ get poached then the vacancy could well be filled by one of the assistants thereby creating a policy of internal appointment.

Thats exactly what Liverpool did during their glory days.

No it doesn't, rarely in football do managers last the length of their contracts. Agree it promotes stability, but if we were to struggle next season and finish in the bottom 6, LJ will be got rid off. Similarly, if we were to do really well and make the play-offs but not go up and a PL club were to make LJ an offer he would be off.

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My God, this thread has been strange in places. 

Very pleased that LJ has signed for another 4 years, excellent news for City.  Lee is a fantastic head coach, long may he help us develop and push forwards.

On another note, if we were serious about promotion, I'd still appoint another manager / DOF to work with him (purely for additional support with the volume of tasks), but hey, that's just me!

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31 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

No it doesn't, rarely in football do managers last the length of their contracts. Agree it promotes stability, but if we were to struggle next season and finish in the bottom 6, LJ will be got rid off. Similarly, if we were to do really well and make the play-offs but not go up and a PL club were to make LJ an offer he would be off.

Had read thru this thread you’ll have seen other replies saying pretty much the same thing...........:cool2:

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15 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

My God, this thread has been strange in places. 

Very pleased that LJ has signed for another 4 years, excellent news for City.  Lee is a fantastic head coach, long may he help us develop and push forwards.

On another note, if we were serious about promotion, I'd still appoint another manager / DOF to work with him (purely for additional support with the volume of tasks), but hey, that's just me!

If LJ is as fantastic as you believe he doesn't need any help .

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8 hours ago, RumRed said:

I’ve earned far more than my managers in the past.  I could sell, they could deal with HR and interminable meetings.  Different skillset, didn’t mean I respected them any less.

RR just has the mentality of someone that’s worked for the public sector where it’s all set pay grades etc.   He probably thinks everyone has a final salary pension, sick pay etc.

If you’ve lived your life in the public sector bubble then you have no comprehension of the private.

 

Bloody too right. @Robbored does indeed have the mentality of a public sector bubble inhabitant. But not just that. The mentality of someone who by his own admission worked in the mental health sector too.

Far too many mentals there for me to get my own mentally disturbed mind round 😃

Anyway it’s Friday. The sun is shining. I’m off next week. And I’m delighted Little Lee is here for 4 more years 😃

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9 hours ago, RumRed said:

I’ve earned far more than my managers in the past.  I could sell, they could deal with HR and interminable meetings.  Different skillset, didn’t mean I respected them any less.

RR just has the mentality of someone that’s worked for the public sector where it’s all set pay grades etc.   He probably thinks everyone has a final salary pension, sick pay etc.

If you’ve lived your life in the public sector bubble then you have no comprehension of the private.

 

Totally agree RumRed I was in sales for many years and always earned more than my managers, eventually going into my own business, sponsoring the City and eventually going bankrupt, no gravy train for me.

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1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

If LJ is as fantastic as you believe he doesn't need any help .

That's a fair point, and I'd say that my suggestion is based around the lack of high level experience of the people helping LJ, namely Macca, Holden, and probably to a degree Brian Tinnion.  I would certainly keep all the current coaches / staff at City, but I would like someone else with a bit of promotion savvy / experience within the management mix.  I know experience isn't everything in life, but it certainly helps - provided the person has the right personality to work with and compliment those here already doing a top job. 

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4 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

That's a fair point, and I'd say that my suggestion is based around the lack of high level experience of the people helping LJ, namely Macca, Holden, and probably to a degree Brian Tinnion.  I would certainly keep all the current coaches / staff at City, but I would like someone else with a bit of promotion savvy / experience within the management mix.  I know experience isn't everything in life, but it certainly helps - provided the person has the right personality to work with and compliment those here already doing a top job. 

I get your point Kev but I don't think LJ would appreciate someone at the club with more knowledge than him. He has been a coach for 6 years now,  half of that at Championship level., and is the definitive voice on football matters so far as SL is concerned I get the impression his 2 assistants are more hands on with the actual training and LJ works on game strategies -I could be wrong that's just my impression. Whether he would take kindly to someone giving an alternative view, and possibly having the ear of the owner is open to question, and he wouldn't be alone in that.

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26 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I get your point Kev but I don't think LJ would appreciate someone at the club with more knowledge than him. He has been a coach for 6 years now,  half of that at Championship level., and is the definitive voice on football matters so far as SL is concerned I get the impression his 2 assistants are more hands on with the actual training and LJ works on game strategies -I could be wrong that's just my impression. Whether he would take kindly to someone giving an alternative view, and possibly having the ear of the owner is open to question, and he wouldn't be alone in that.

I get the impression that LJ and his assistants see themselves as one team with LJ as captain.They see each other almost daily at Failand and obviously discuss all the ins and outs of current matters.

From the clips of training we see on the OS LJ is very much involved as are Macca and Deano.

Edited by Robbored
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13 hours ago, RumRed said:

I’ve earned far more than my managers in the past.  I could sell, they could deal with HR and interminable meetings.  Different skillset, didn’t mean I respected them any less.

RR just has the mentality of someone that’s worked for the public sector where it’s all set pay grades etc.   He probably thinks everyone has a final salary pension, sick pay etc.

If you’ve lived your life in the public sector bubble then you have no comprehension of the private.

 

Agree with this,  I worked in the public sector for 20 years but luckily was one of the few exceptions to earning more than my boss due to my different skillset and higher security clearance, however I couldn't do my bosses job and he couldn't do mine, mutual respect though and 15 years after leaving we are still friends. 

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Shows  somebody has their head screwed on at city getting LJ to sign up for four years, stability for the club and must help in the transfer market in the long run getting it out in the open ASAP might help any lingering doubters to want to come and play for city.

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Thought this might be the online estate agents the club will use to find properties for all our summersignings. 

 

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7 hours ago, reddogkev said:

That's a fair point, and I'd say that my suggestion is based around the lack of high level experience of the people helping LJ, namely Macca, Holden, and probably to a degree Brian Tinnion.  I would certainly keep all the current coaches / staff at City, but I would like someone else with a bit of promotion savvy / experience within the management mix.  I know experience isn't everything in life, but it certainly helps - provided the person has the right personality to work with and compliment those here already doing a top job. 

Good post confirming what quite a few have thought and said. He does have an ideal source of alternative advice in his father, except for me that is not considered as suitable as GJ has never managed at this level.

To bring in someone as a DOF or mentor would now, after three years, be an insult to LJ. He needed that in the first two years, when he was really green at this level. Even I would admit that he appears to make fewer mistakes now. And I also acknowledge that one who never makes a decision will never make a mistake. Football management is not a precise science.

It would be interesting to know who he talks to outside of family and BCFC for advice. 

Edited by cidered abroad
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4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

 

It would be interesting to know who he talks to outside of family and BCFC for advice. 

One of his best attributes is he is an arduous student. He has met military, he has been far and wide watching training - Germany recently we know about, seeking out some ex Tampa Bay coach during pre-season... I think it’s more who he doesn’t talk to, in football or where he thinks he can get some transferable skills. 

I’m sure he’s going to go far. He has the right attitude. 

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On 23/05/2019 at 17:36, Robbored said:

 ... he refers to Bristol City as ‘my club ‘ and that he ‘loves the club’ . He probably thinks he has his  dream job and I can’t see him going anywhere unless a big PL club come knocking and makes an offer he can’t refuse...

Zillions of managers of many clubs have described the clubs they manage as ‘my club’ and they pledge undying love to those clubs - it means little ... and you speak as though LJ holds all the cards and his departure will be totally on his terms - in reality that is guff ... 

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Zillions of managers of many clubs have described the clubs they manage as ‘my club’ and they pledge undying love to those clubs - it means little ... and you speak as though LJ holds all the cards and his departure will be totally on his terms - in reality that is guff ... 

Have you heard LJ talk about Bristol City in person? If you’re  in his company you’d see how much he cares about the club.Ive seen him become a little emotional when he talked about nearly losing his job.

He’s becoming to City what Eddie Howe is at B’muff.

 

 

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23 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Good post confirming what quite a few have thought and said. He does have an ideal source of alternative advice in his father, except for me that is not considered as suitable as GJ has never managed at this level.

To bring in someone as a DOF or mentor would now, after three years, be an insult to LJ. He needed that in the first two years, when he was really green at this level. Even I would admit that he appears to make fewer mistakes now. And I also acknowledge that one who never makes a decision will never make a mistake. Football management is not a precise science.

It would be interesting to know who he talks to outside of family and BCFC for advice. 

Not sure what you mean in saying GJ has never managed at this level.

As to who LJ speaks to outside of family, it seems to me that he has a myriad of contacts in the game as you'd expect of a football centred family. I agree that he doesn't need a DOF imho, he's made his major mistakes already (hopefully) and has hopefully learned from it.

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On 24/05/2019 at 18:29, cidered abroad said:

Good post confirming what quite a few have thought and said. He does have an ideal source of alternative advice in his father, except for me that is not considered as suitable as GJ has never managed at this level.

To bring in someone as a DOF or mentor would now, after three years, be an insult to LJ. He needed that in the first two years, when he was really green at this level. Even I would admit that he appears to make fewer mistakes now. And I also acknowledge that one who never makes a decision will never make a mistake. Football management is not a precise science.

It would be interesting to know who he talks to outside of family and BCFC for advice. 

Were you asleep for 3 seasons in the late 00s

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On 23/05/2019 at 17:33, eardun said:

Me neither. And if you think about it technically it is only another 3 years on from when LJ’s first contract was due to end in 2020. His first contract was for 3.5 years; that was the bigger risk and commitment. 

LJ’s first contract appointed him to the end of the 2018/2019 season ... he signed a contract extension, in the midst of an horrendous run of results, in December 2016 - that was the one that was due to end in 2020 ...

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