The Batman Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Arsenal have confirmed midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan WILL NOT be in their Europa League final squad to face Chelsea next week. Nothing wrong with his fitness, but they cant guarantee his safety because of the tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan. In addition to the 6, 000 tickets for each club, makes you wonder what on earth uefa were thinking having it there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Reminiscent of Basil D'Olivera (?) , for England's cricket team and the apartheid South African state at that time, Arsenal should have (IMO) made a stand and refused to play unless their players safety was guaranteed. Put the ball back in UEFA's court and get them to justify their choice of venue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 To be clear, it seems to be fears for his safety rather than a refusal to grant Visa. Still not good enough but not a politically led decision as such- but it doesn't sound like Azerbaijan government refused him a Visa. 6,000 tickets for each club owing to infrastructure ie. airport capacity in Baku- but also UEFA said that they assumed Valencia would only take 3,000 so some sort of presumed average weighting maybe? Happened earlier in the season actually- albeit just a group game rather than a final! https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45734124 Azerbaijan also said his safety would be guaranteed but presumably Arsenal didn't wish to take the risk- don't know if he would have been under guard or similar, wouldn't have been great. Plus if Arsenal believed there was any risk to his safety, then that comes first, second and third- had to be done. Incidentally, I re-read the Azerbaijan ambassador- it was a weird and worrying mix of reassurance and threat. Quote “My message to Mkhitaryan would be: you’re a footballer, you want to play football? Go to Baku you are safe there, if you want to play the issue then that’s a different story. What I can guarantee is that the Azerbaijan government will do everything what needs to be done and provide safety and security for every fan, player and staff member coming to this game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 21, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I agree with the numbers and location being poor, I genuinely don't know the answer but is it as bad to get to from say Spain or Italy? Just wondering if it looking worse as two English sides have got there The other thing that isn't consistent, one minute the two clubs are saying they didn't get enough tickets, the next they are saying they won't be able to sell their allocations anyway! I know someone that has been to all the Chelsea away games in the cup so far, she said it was going to cost thousands in travel and she couldn't justify it, I would imagine that there are many others like this too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: 6,000 tickets for each club owing to infrastructure ie. airport capacity in Baku- This p155e5 me off. How are the other 50,000 people going getting there? Hell of a bus service that is. All the corporate sponsors, delagates, celebrities etc. They're gonna be flying in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 That's a pretty shitty situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Batman said: This p155e5 me off. How are the other 50,000 people going getting there? Hell of a bus service that is. All the corporate sponsors, delagates, celebrities etc. They're gonna be flying in. Read different things on it- Azerbaijan or someone linked to it said their airport has capacity of 10,000 per day- don't know if that is adequate- the lack of direct flights an issue as well. Maybe it's linked to how much accommodation would be available? Wouldn't know- never been to Baku! Fair few things don't add up though- we know allocations for actual fans are pretty shit these days but take an average and give it that- in reality the bulk should go to fans of each side but being realistic in 2019... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 If THIS has any chance of being accurate though, then forget everything else- it should absolutely not be there!! https://talksport.com/football/541410/arsenal-chelsea-azerbaijan-terror-attacks-europa-league-final-baku/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Read different things on it- Azerbaijan or someone linked to it said their airport has capacity of 10,000 per day- don't know if that is adequate- the lack of direct flights an issue as well. Maybe it's linked to how much accommodation would be available? Wouldn't know- never been to Baku! I understand that those may be an issue, but it doesn't answer how the other 50,000 people will be getting there, and, as you've rightly raised, where will they be staying? Basically they made one ginormous cock up having it here. Shame as the stadium is lovely and the surrounding areas in Google maps make it look quite pleasant. (on the photos, not actually street view) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Batman said: I understand that those may be an issue, but it doesn't answer how the other 50,000 people will be getting there, and, as you've rightly raised, where will they be staying? Basically they made one ginormous cock up having it here. Shame as the stadium is lovely and the surrounding areas in Google maps make it look quite pleasant. (on the photos, not actually street view) Depends where they are travelling from in terms of flights, direct or otherwise- 10,000 per hour, don't know how well that compares to other airports in the West. Agree and disagree- most Armenian players don't play in the top Leagues, this part of the situation fairly unique. Baku itself isn't such a bad destination in some ways (except perhaps if you're local and poor ). That aside, no reason not to expand football beyond top 5-10 Leagues in Europe and certainly nothing so new- think they had a European Super Cup final between 2 Spanish sides in Tbilisi for example. https://eurasianet.org/arsenals-return-to-azerbaijan-raises-concerns-for-armenian-player Azerbaijani perspective suggests that he could have been safe. Cannot take any chances with these things though. The ambassadors quote in full- key bits in bold: Quote “This is a Class A event, if our purpose is to play political games around it it is something different, you are being paid as a footballer not a politician, lets leave other issues aside,” he said. “His problem is that he has visited a military occupied portion of Azerbaijan which in doing so without permission from Azerbijani government. “This entails consequences including blacklisted by the government. But he will be able to have security and safety guarantees. “My message to Mkhitaryan would be: you’re a footballer, you want to play football? Go to Baku you are safe there, if you want to play the issue then that’s a different story. “What I can guarantee is that the Azerbaijan government will do everything what needs to be done and provide safety and security for every fan, player and staff member coming to this game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 21, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I had to laugh at how Arsenal contacted UEFA asking why the final was ever agreed to be played there, when it turned out their former Chief Executive Ivan Gazidis was part of the committee that chose that location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Incidentally Armenian athletes have apparently competed there before without incident- hostile (verbally, booing etc from the stands to the pitch) aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, phantom said: I had to laugh at how Arsenal contacted UEFA asking why the final was ever agreed to be played there, when it turned out their former Chief Executive Ivan Gazidis was part of the committee that chose that location Doh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 21, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Obviously it wouldn't have made such big headlines at the time, but did Arsenal supporters have the same problems getting there when they played Qarabag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, phantom said: Obviously it wouldn't have made such big headlines at the time, but did Arsenal supporters have the same problems getting there when they played Qarabag? Just had a look at the lineups. He wasn't in the match day squad but he was injured for a long period so may have coincided with their trip. Will have to look at games either side to see whether he was playing or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Batman said: Just had a look at the lineups. He wasn't in the match day squad but he was injured for a long period so may have coincided with their trip. Will have to look at games either side to see whether he was playing or not. Him visiting a part of Azerbaijan that is/was under military occupation without prior permission from Azeri authorities complicates the issue somewhat, if true of course. Still a frozen conflict that one. That might be what sets him apart from other Armenian athletes who have visited or participated in Azerbaijan. Still he would have been allowed for this final and his security aimed to be guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinéadB Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, The Batman said: Just had a look at the lineups. He wasn't in the match day squad but he was injured for a long period so may have coincided with their trip. Will have to look at games either side to see whether he was playing or not. Mkhitaryan was left at home for that game. He also didn't go to Azerbaijan when he played for Dortmund for the same reasons so I suspected he wouldn't go for the final. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48222137 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: 6,000 tickets for each club owing to infrastructure ie. airport capacity in Baku- but also UEFA said that they assumed Valencia would only take 3,000 so some sort of presumed average weighting maybe? It’s a ridiculous venue at which to hold a European Final and 6,000 tickets for the fans of each team is a disgrace - even the sags would sellout that allocation...just. Not sure how Valencia’s presumed ticket take up is relevant though? Why did UEFA mention a team that didn’t even make it to the final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 hours ago, The Batman said: Arsenal have confirmed midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan WILL NOT be in their Europa League final squad to face Chelsea next week. Nothing wrong with his fitness, but they cant guarantee his safety because of the tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan. In addition to the 6, 000 tickets for each club, makes you wonder what on earth uefa were thinking having it there Absolute disgrace. Appears Arse fans of Armenian descent also not welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: It’s a ridiculous venue at which to hold a European Final and 6,000 tickets for the fans of each team is a disgrace - even the sags would sellout that allocation...just. Not sure how Valencia’s presumed ticket take up is relevant though? Why did UEFA mention a team that didn’t even make it to the final? In some ways it is, in some ways it isn't. The 6,000 I agree on- but then ticket allocations as % of grounds to you know, actual fans are not what they were or should be. Ridiculous venue? Well Tbilisi had a European Super Cup final between 2 Spanish clubs a few years ago so make your own mind up! For a bit of context, 74,500 Millennium Stadium Cardiff 2017- Real Madrid v Juventus. 18,000 each. Sign of the times! For the Europa League final, allocations probably a lower proportion of seats but maybe wrong. Fairly sure UEFA mentioned it, who knows why- possible slight deflection. The whole games in interesting locations shall we call them...torn on it. Seems to be quite significant yet specific problems with Baku- and I guess same would apply for any Azerbaijanis were it in Yerevan http://futbolgrad.com/borussia-dortmund-faces-mkhitaryan-visa-nightmare-before-europa-league-match/ This is from a few years ago but equally relevant today- bit of background reading. God knows why he visited that region though! He must have known that it would cause problems if they faced Azerbaijani clubs let alone a final in Baku (though technically Azerbaijan would let him in). He was 21 or 22 when he went if reports to be believed...not a child. It's a crap situation all round. I think his safety could be guaranteed- but he would probably be under 24-hour guard, out of absolute necessity. Without wishing to stereotype, Eastern Europe seems a horrible, intractable mess- not so much central Europe but the further East you go, the worse it seems to get- real shame football has been dragged into it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 For environmental reasons the game should be played in London. Nut people make nut decisions for money laundring reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Without wishing to stereotype, Eastern Europe seems a horrible, intractable mess- not so much central Europe but the further East you go, the worse it seems to get- real shame football has been dragged into it! Speaking at this moment from Sofia in Bulgaria, having been in Skopje yesterday in what only became known as Northern Macedonia in February and has been the long running subject of dispute from all angles, this sort of preconception couldn't be further from the truth and having had the same assumption I feel quite sorry for them that it seems to be our default view! It's true there are so many perspectives on where each region belongs and who it is populated by, but I've been educated from talking to local people who are sick of the 'old world' nationalism and think there are far more pressing issues like their public services without worrying who owns who's history. They're the same as the rest of us, with the usual sensible priorities in life. Okay it's not quite the same former Soviet peripheries as Azerbaijan and Armenia but is pretty remote, ethnically ambiguous and most seemed quite irritated to talk about them not getting on. Last night I crossed the remotest part of the border high in the mountains from Macedonia to Bulgaria. In my experience compared to Heathrow I've found these people are far more naturally inclined to be friendly and welcoming - perhaps some of our own lot at Heathrow believe they're the ones fighting some kind of intractable territorial battle, as it's there where I find its the 'worst it gets'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Olé said: Speaking at this moment from Sofia in Bulgaria, having been in Skopje yesterday in what only became known as Northern Macedonia in February and has been the long running subject of dispute from all angles, this sort of preconception couldn't be further from the truth and having had the same assumption I feel quite sorry for them that it seems to be our default view! It's true there are so many perspectives on where each region belongs and who it is populated by, but I've been educated from talking to local people who are sick of the 'old world' nationalism and think there are far more pressing issues like their public services without worrying who owns who's history. They're the same as the rest of us, with the usual sensible priorities in life. Okay it's not quite the same former Soviet peripheries as Azerbaijan and Armenia but is pretty remote, ethnically ambiguous and most seemed quite irritated to talk about them not getting on. Last night I crossed the remotest part of the border high in the mountains from Macedonia to Bulgaria. In my experience compared to Heathrow I've found these people are far more naturally inclined to be friendly and welcoming - perhaps some of our own lot at Heathrow believe they're the ones fighting some kind of intractable territorial battle, as it's there where I find its the 'worst it gets'! Thanks for the insight, genuinely quite interesting. My views maybe stuck in the 1990s a bit on this. "horrible, intractable mess" perhaps an exaggeration, poetic license but I was under the impression a lot of unresolved issues in that region- conflicts that were frozen at a point, but not resolved. Am glad to hear that things have changed for the better. No doubt many people will be as you describe- same priorities, economy, public services etc but the Azerbaijan-Armenia issue had localised conflict as recently as 2016. Sounds like the Macedonia issue is now resolved which is good to hear. Awful lot of irredentism and frozen conflicts in Eastern Europe though. Worse it gets? Not talking so much people, political leaders- or 'leaders' more like it. I am happy Macedonia seems to have resolved its intractable issues with Greece however. Probably best not to mention the Albanian minority, for they would quite like to be part of Albania- territory and population alike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: If THIS has any chance of being accurate though, then forget everything else- it should absolutely not be there!! https://talksport.com/football/541410/arsenal-chelsea-azerbaijan-terror-attacks-europa-league-final-baku/ That's absolutely disgusting that a final will be held in a place where, let's face it, I'm sure it's much easier to commit these sort of acts than if it was somewhere else. Big crowds are always a draw for terrorism, but FFS, does no one have a conscience at UEFA?! Holding it there doesn't make any f*cking sense at all, other than to line their pockets. The whole spiel about trying to reach out to other nations, fair opportunity etc is utter bull. Arsenal should pull out purely on the basis one of their best players has to miss it solely on the fact of the location its held at! If this was barca and Messi had to miss out, there would be uproar. And if arsenal lose, right or wrong, they'd be well within their means to say it was an unfair tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pound Lane Red Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 On 21/05/2019 at 17:10, bristolcitysweden said: For environmental reasons the game should be played in London. Agree on this point. If both finalists are from the same country or near neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Agree with @Olé - it does seem the ones shouting the loudest in the papers and the net (not on here) are generally people that have never been further east than Paris! Whilst deeply impoverished rurally in general - the people themselves in the old 'East' are welcoming and generous. There is always a bed to be found and a hot meal offered to a traveller who has missed a train/bus etc. The major cities have their own unique history, but have suffered from regional and world conflicts, but the heritage remains, if you care enough to ask to see it. Of course it's not central London, but why go to Eastern Europe if that's what you are after? I started going firstly to Romania in the Nicolae Ceausescu era (1980's) and whilst the regime sucked, the people were 99% wonderfully welcoming. The same applies to Bulgaria,Hungary and Poland. Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia were delightful - Coastal Estonia was breathtaking - and still is. My point is that if we viewed the AREA by Western 'standards' then it appears 'inferior' from afar. It really isn't - and the people are a damned sight nicer than most Westerners. Give Eastern Europe a thought for your next holiday - if you go for history, culture and with an open mind, you'll have a much better time than the usual alcohol ruined Med resort holidays (which sadly is spreading to some Eastern Europe capital cities). I'm sure the 12,000 football fans who go, if respectful of people, property and culture, will have a great time, with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC11 Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 21/05/2019 at 12:23, The Batman said: Arsenal have confirmed midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan WILL NOT be in their Europa League final squad to face Chelsea next week. Nothing wrong with his fitness, but they cant guarantee his safety because of the tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan. In addition to the 6, 000 tickets for each club, makes you wonder what on earth uefa were thinking having it there I have no doubt that some UEFA individuals will benefit from it financially, yet ask them why they chosen to play it in Baku and you’ll get the usual horseshit that it’s to raise the profile of the game in poorer countries. Reminds me abit of when Brazil were chosen to host the World Cup a few years back and the majority of the Brazilian people were dead against it due to the financial state the country was in but they still went ahead building all these new stadiums, promising jobs, bright futures etc. Yet not so long ago I seen a report on one the Stadiums where England played one of their group games (near the Amazon) the only thing people now use it for is pitching up their tents and living in the concourse. Given the size of Qatar as a country and I think building 12 brand new stadiums it will happen there aswell, so their promoting the game in lesser countries is bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 I quite like the idea of the Champions League/Europa League finals being shared around UEFA member countries. It's unfair if London, Paris, Berlin and Madrid were the only places ever to host major finals. But Azerbaijan is not a good choice if they cannot guarantee the safety of players from Armenia. That sort of crap has no place in football and if UEFA cannot guarantee the safety of Armenian players in Azerbaijan, then Azerbaijan should not be allowed to host matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Pound Lane Red said: Agree on this point. If both finalists are from the same country or near neighbours. All Italian CL final 2003- Manchester All German CL final 2013- London Barcelona-Sevilla 2015 for European Super Cup final- Tbilisi, Georgia. Precedent to some extent, set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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