reddogkev Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 I've been thinking for a while about our expectations and standing in the game. We have come on leaps and bounds in recent years and thankfully we are an established Championship outfit, but are we a viable promotion contender? Are we a team likely to even make the top six? After a few days of contemplation, I'd say it is very unlikely. Of course, it's what we all clamour for as long-standing City fans, but is it fair to expect this for the club? Quite often, people on OTIB and in general conversation talk about our aims for the top six and promotion. I myself have the same ambition, but I've stopped for a moment to ask what that is based on. We haven't been in the top flight since the early 70's and don't pay big money for the good players. We don't keep our top players for more than a season or two at this level, and it wouldn't surprise me if we sold Webster and Brownhill in the not too distant future. Based on the fact we often sell our top players and don't tend to replace with Championship quality (Adelukan, Eissa, Watkins, for example), it seems an unreasonable expectation for City to push for the promotion spots. Until we stop selling our quality players and find a way to get them to stay at City, sadly, promotion will always be an unlikely objective. Still, this is no reason to be downbeat; the challenge of competing in a highly unpredictable Championship league, peppered with quality teams and exceptional players, will always be an exciting one. And even though it seems unreasonable to expect promotion with the current model of Bristol City, it doesn't mean it's impossible. What are your thoughts? Agree with my comments, or disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Of course it’s realistic. City got pretty close last season, missing out on the pray-offs on the last match of the season and with the obvious weaknesses being addressed this summer we’ll be a serious contender next season. 7/1 is still a bit measly tho........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, reddogkev said: I've been thinking for a while about our expectations and standing in the game. We have come on leaps and bounds in recent years and thankfully we are an established Championship outfit, but are we a viable promotion contender? Are we a team likely to even make the top six? After a few days of contemplation, I'd say it is very unlikely. Of course, it's what we all clamour for as long-standing City fans, but is it fair to expect this for the club? Quite often, people on OTIB and in general conversation talk about our aims for the top six and promotion. I myself have the same ambition, but I've stopped for a moment to ask what that is based on. We haven't been in the top flight since the early 70's and don't pay big money for the good players. We don't keep our top players for more than a season or two at this level, and it wouldn't surprise me if we sold Webster and Brownhill in the not too distant future. Based on the fact we often sell our top players and don't tend to replace with Championship quality (Adelukan, Eissa, Watkins, for example), it seems an unreasonable expectation for City to push for the promotion spots. Until we stop selling our quality players and find a way to get them to stay at City, sadly, promotion will always be an unlikely objective. Still, this is no reason to be downbeat; the challenge of competing in a highly unpredictable Championship league, peppered with quality teams and exceptional players, will always be an exciting one. And even though it seems unreasonable to expect promotion with the current model of Bristol City, it doesn't mean it's impossible. What are your thoughts? Agree with my comments, or disagree? 1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porto Red Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 You present an argument so balanced that it's hard to disagree with. Yes, the facts suggest it should be just beyond us, and yet every year there are teams who defy logic. As you say, unreasonable to expect promotion but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Unfortunately IMO we will always have to sell our best players like a lot of clubs do . But the progress the club has made on and off the pitch will hopefully enable us to buy quality as well . All squads have players that are a bit meh . Unfortunately we’ve signed a fair few which needs to be addressed. In my time supporting city this is the best opportunity we have of doing it and I really hope we can secure our transfer targets. Also IMO the championship next season doesn’t seem as strong. Always believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 As always its about recruitment, get that right, in the main, and we have an outstanding chance of the top 6. There is no question that the club are on the up and I think we could be in for a surprising summer (not ITK) - the main reason I feel that way is LJ signing a new 4 year deal. He has dropped many hints in the last few months about the club having to match his ambition which we know he has in abundance. I do not believe that contract would have been signed had he not received the assurances he required. A new 4 yr deal makes him much less attractive to potential suitors which he will clearly be very aware of so I am confident the next two months could be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, harvey54 said: Nope Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, Robbored said: Of course it’s realistic. City got pretty close last season, missing out on the pray-offs on the last match of the season and with the obvious weaknesses being addressed this summer we’ll be a serious contender next season. 7/1 is still a bit measly tho........ Pretty close to making the play offs isn't getting close to getting promotion . Losing in the play offs would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Yes we can, but we have to remember it’s a competitive league, with very fine margins, so nothing can be taken for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: Pretty close to making the play offs isn't getting close to getting promotion . Losing in the play offs would be Would you rather City were comfortable with mid table mediocrity? I enjoyed the run in last season being in with a shout right up to last match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Why would it not be realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, reddogkev said: I've been thinking for a while about our expectations and standing in the game. We have come on leaps and bounds in recent years and thankfully we are an established Championship outfit, but are we a viable promotion contender? Are we a team likely to even make the top six? After a few days of contemplation, I'd say it is very unlikely. Of course, it's what we all clamour for as long-standing City fans, but is it fair to expect this for the club? Quite often, people on OTIB and in general conversation talk about our aims for the top six and promotion. I myself have the same ambition, but I've stopped for a moment to ask what that is based on. We haven't been in the top flight since the early 70's and don't pay big money for the good players. We don't keep our top players for more than a season or two at this level, and it wouldn't surprise me if we sold Webster and Brownhill in the not too distant future. Based on the fact we often sell our top players and don't tend to replace with Championship quality (Adelukan, Eissa, Watkins, for example), it seems an unreasonable expectation for City to push for the promotion spots. Until we stop selling our quality players and find a way to get them to stay at City, sadly, promotion will always be an unlikely objective. Still, this is no reason to be downbeat; the challenge of competing in a highly unpredictable Championship league, peppered with quality teams and exceptional players, will always be an exciting one. And even though it seems unreasonable to expect promotion with the current model of Bristol City, it doesn't mean it's impossible. What are your thoughts? Agree with my comments, or disagree? If "we often sell our top players and don't tend to replace with Championship quality", why then have we managed to improve our league position for five consecutive seasons? If replacing Flint with both Webster and Kalas isn't Championship quality, I don't know what is. It is a fact of life for pretty much all clubs in the Championship that their better players will move on to a higher division; we are evidently managing that unfortunate reality better than many. We went into our 46th game last season with an outside chance of making the play offs - another season of improvement. We have the infrastructure and stadium to back up our new status as an established Championship team, an improved status in the game, stability off the pitch and a well-respected and increasingly well-known manager, which will help recruit even better players. If the likes of Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Sheffield United and Cardiff can achieve promotion I don't see any reason to think its unrealistic for us to achieve the same. It's far from guaranteed of course, but anyone saying its unrealistic is taking a cynical view and failing to acknowledge the progress and trend over the last five years. Teams have emerged from much more lowly positions than 8th in the Championship to achieve promotion to the top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, downendcity said: Yep. I'm naturally a pessimist. I don't get disappointed that way. It's the word 'realistic' that bothers me. If we buy quality in the summer I might give us an outside chance though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted May 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Robbored said: Would you rather City were comfortable with mid table mediocrity? I enjoyed the run in last season being in with a shout right up to last match. Why would anyone prefer that? Not having a realistic expectation for promotion doesn't translate to being content with mid-table mediocrity, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted May 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, Wanderingred said: Why would it not be realistic? Good question, and in the interest of debate, for me the main reasons are: 1) Selling best players too frequently (Yes, the money is fantastic value, but if we don't retain Kalas, then a central defence of Webster and Kelly this new season would have been sensational). 2) Signing too many players not of the required standard 3) Unable to recruit the right strike partner for Fammy in the last few transfer windows - despite being in positions of strength. 4) Not enough promotion experience in the management team (i.e zero promotion experience) 5) The financial disparity between ourselves and the wealthier clubs from the Premier League. What are your reasons to suggest Promotion is realistic for City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 30, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 2 hours ago, reddogkev said: Are we a team likely to even make the top six? After a few days of contemplation, I'd say it is very unlikely. a ""realistic aim" 100% it is, otherwise we shouldn't be existing as a football club, last season we were only a 20+ goal scorer from being in the final shake up 2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: Unfortunately IMO we will always have to sell our best players like a lot of clubs do . But so do probably 85+ other clubs in the various top 4 tiers, this is nothing unique to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Promotion will only be a possibility if we can get a centre forward who can do things like run, jump, score goals and hold his own against strong defenders. Those qualities don't come cheap though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, reddogkev said: Based on the fact we often sell our top players and don't tend to replace with Championship quality (Adelukan, Eissa, Watkins, for example), it seems an unreasonable expectation for City to push for the promotion spots. Until we stop selling our quality players and find a way to get them to stay at City, sadly, promotion will always be an unlikely objective.. What are your thoughts? Agree with my comments, or disagree? FACT? We sold our "TOP" players and finished higher last season. And the "TOP" players were replaced directly by players of championship+ quality. Why are you pretending that didn't happen? Flint replaced by Webster/Kalas on loan. Bryan replaced by Da Silva (of course temporarily as of today). Reid replaced by Weimann. Spot the non championship quality player. Maybe Webster because he's could be better? It's right to highlight the ineffective signings of Adelukan, Eisa, and Watkins in a discussion about LJs transfer success but you're ignoring the good signings we've made which shows the inherent negative bias you have and the narrative you're trying to create for yourself. Woe is me, we're a selling club with no ambition... That kind of flies in the face of the year on year improvement both on and off the field that's been going on? Basically, why are you making things up about the transfers in order to justify a negative viewpoint? Why are you posting this on the 30th of May and not the end of the transfer window when we can see the results? I totally get that people are still not over some of the football and performances of last year, but if you're taking an overview of the club I genuinely do not understand how you can be negative based on the logic of what's been happening. We've spent the past 5 seasons improving our league position. 1st, 18th, 17th, 11th, 8th. 5 years in a row where we're better than the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Good question, and in the interest of debate, for me the main reasons are: 1) Selling best players too frequently (Yes, the money is fantastic value, but if we don't retain Kalas, then a central defence of Webster and Kelly this new season would have been sensational). This time last season fans were panicking at the prospect of losing Flint and Bryan and what happened? LJ signed Webdini... 2) Signing too many players not of the required standard Wont happen with LJ making the final decision 3) Unable to recruit the right strike partner for Fammy in the last few transfer windows - despite being in positions of strength. That will be addressed this summer. 8 minutes ago, reddogkev said: 4) Not enough promotion experience in the management team (i.e zero promotion experience) irrelevant. 5) The financial disparity between ourselves and the wealthier clubs from the Premier League. Also irrelevant - Look at Fulham last season...... What are your reasons to suggest Promotion is realistic for City? Excellent Head Coach and a very decent squad that will be strengthened this window.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 30, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said: Promotion will only be a possibility if we can get a centre forward who can do things like run, jump, score goals and hold his own against strong defenders. Those qualities don't come cheap though. Oddly Diedhiou was outstanding doing all those things in his own penalty area clearing the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 Good God of course it is ...we finished 8th, a good 8th, why would we not be thinking of promotion as realistic? Stupid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Robbored said: Would you rather City were comfortable with mid table mediocrity? I enjoyed the run in last season being in with a shout right up to last match. Yeah but we weren’t close to promotion were we. Waffle as always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted May 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said: Good God of course it is ...we finished 8th, a good 8th, why would we not be thinking of promotion as realistic? Stupid question. Since when does finishing a good 8th equal promotion? Stupid point, ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sturny said: Waffle as always You call it waffle, I call it positive and upbeat realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: You call it waffle, I call it positive and upbeat realism. finishing 8th and calling it "nearly promoted" is upbeat realism? Cmon Robbored you're making it easy for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 I feel there is a level of optimism on here that suggests that if we do have a poor season there will be a huge disappointment. It's still a tough league though and although it is realistic the level that has to be reached to achieve it is startling these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: Unfortunately IMO we will always have to sell our best players like a lot of clubs do . But the progress the club has made on and off the pitch will hopefully enable us to buy quality as well . All squads have players that are a bit meh . Unfortunately we’ve signed a fair few which needs to be addressed. In my time supporting city this is the best opportunity we have of doing it and I really hope we can secure our transfer targets. Also IMO the championship next season doesn’t seem as strong. Always believe Selling our best players for good fees is ok providing the funds are reinvested in similar or better players Bryan/Dasilva - Yes Flint/Webster - Yes Reid/Weimann - No 2 out of 3 ain’t bad Hopefully this summer the club are bold and recruit wisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 The more I watch this premier league the more convinced I am that I wouldn't care if we never made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted May 30, 2019 Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, INCRED said: Selling our best players for good fees is ok providing the funds are reinvested in similar or better players Bryan/Dasilva - Yes Flint/Webster - Yes Reid/Weimann - No 2 out of 3 ain’t bad Hopefully this summer the club are bold and recruit wisely You could argue we failed to fill the most important out of the 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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