Davefevs Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Is Kelly truly one he inherited? Kelly was an academy product, but let's say Johnson is here in 5 years time. Would a player who comes through the academy in that time be someone he inherits? He wouldn't have been purchased, but still a club development. I was expecting a challenge on Kelly. He broke through under Cotterill in 15/16 pre-season, aged 17, going to Portugal (I think) as part of a small 1st team squad. So, yes, I do think he was inherited by LJ. If he was 16 when LJ arrived I would say he’s LJ’s, but in Lloyd’s case it makes you wonder why it took so long to get more minutes. So hassle if you don’t agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I was expecting a challenge on Kelly. He broke through under Cotterill in 15/16 pre-season, aged 17, going to Portugal (I think) as part of a small 1st team squad. So, yes, I do think he was inherited by LJ. If he was 16 when LJ arrived I would say he’s LJ’s, but in Lloyd’s case it makes you wonder why it took so long to get more minutes. So hassle if you don’t agree. I wasn't sure when he made his debut or when he was first taken along with the first team for pre season, which is why it was more of a question than a proper challenge. I'd still say it's a bit harsh to outright say it's someone he inherited, with Hodge's comments below very much covering my reasoning why. 6 minutes ago, hodge said: Think academy players are different, while LJ didn't sign Kelly he'd have been what, 17 when LJ took over. LJ would have seen enough to have wanted him kept at the academy and then promoted to the first team so will have had a significant enough input into his development to get credit for his valuation upon being sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: I wasn't sure when he made his debut or when he was first taken along with the first team for pre season, which is why it was more of a question than a proper challenge. I'd still say it's a bit harsh to outright say it's someone he inherited, with Hodge's comments below very much covering my reasoning why. Hodges reasoning is fine, just like Bobby, I give LJ credit for them becoming the players (and value) they became. My comment was about churn of players he’d both bought and sold, and hopefully an improvement now we are moving into medium term with him. If LJ had signed Kelly as a 17 year old from XYZ Utd, then it would be totally different. We haven’t seen a Jonny Smith or Diego Di Girolamo sell for £x million yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Hodges reasoning is fine, just like Bobby, I give LJ credit for them becoming the players (and value) they became. My comment was about churn of players he’d both bought and sold, and hopefully an improvement now we are moving into medium term with him. If LJ had signed Kelly as a 17 year old from XYZ Utd, then it would be totally different. We haven’t seen a Jonny Smith or Diego Di Girolamo sell for £x million yet. That's true, but those are always long term ones really. DDG went but at least 75% of the young 'uns brought in under LJ are still here. Brownhill is an established first teamer and was just 20/21 when he signed. He would be worth several million were he to be sold. Most of the young ones signed will be seen as "didn't make it" etc. That's just how it goes. But Jonny Smith, Hinds, Bakinson, Janneh, Semenyo are all going to be worth more now than when they signed already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 40 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: That's true, but those are always long term ones really. DDG went but at least 75% of the young 'uns brought in under LJ are still here. Brownhill is an established first teamer and was just 20/21 when he signed. He would be worth several million were he to be sold. Most of the young ones signed will be seen as "didn't make it" etc. That's just how it goes. But Jonny Smith, Hinds, Bakinson, Janneh, Semenyo are all going to be worth more now than when they signed already. Brownhill and O’Dowda were first teamers at their respective clubs, irrespective of age, with almost 200 appearances between them. Completely different class of signing to DDG (I like that, much easier than trying to remember his to spell his name!) or Smith. I’m waiting for one of the the plethora of young ‘punts’ to really make it. Don’t get me wrong, recruitment is improving, and I would be happier if we bought more Brownhill’s and O’Dowda’s than play the numbers games with the likes of Smith and DDG. But I accept it is in the hope that one one of them “goes big” and justifies the approach. Semenyo and Bakinson have that chance. We just haven’t seen one yet, that’s all I'm saying. We are improving really nicely, so don’t read this as a criticism. Most managers don’t even get enough time to see a cycle of their own players both bought and sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalcub Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 13 hours ago, Port Said Red said: Dropping hints at something underhand going on would be more effective if we had been the only club looking to sign him at the time. Everytime a player moves im sure other clubs were/are interested , dont really get your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 10 hours ago, hodge said: Think academy players are different, while LJ didn't sign Kelly he'd have been what, 17 when LJ took over. LJ would have seen enough to have wanted him kept at the academy and then promoted to the first team so will have had a significant enough input into his development to get credit for his valuation upon being sold. Jelly was here when Johnson was a player, Johnson use to train the youngsters when he was a player, johnson had a massive hand in his developmental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 8 hours ago, bengalcub said: Everytime a player moves im sure other clubs were/are interested , dont really get your point. My point is there is no extra incentive for a deal, the price would have been the same, the fees to agents etc would have been the same. We didn’t buy him to make someone money in some underhand way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippin cider Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 Posh DOF says that Eisa wasted a year of his career when he signed for us .....**** ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Slippin cider said: Posh DOF says that Eisa wasted a year of his career when he signed for us .....**** ... Is that the sage, Barry Fry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortia Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Slippin cider said: Posh DOF says that Eisa wasted a year of his career when he signed for us .....**** ... He did, though. It's no good for a player of that age to not play competitive football for an entire year. It's no different to 'wasting a year' if he were out with a cruciate ligament injury for 10 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Distortia said: He did, though. It's no good for a player of that age to not play competitive football for an entire year. It's no different to 'wasting a year' if he were out with a cruciate ligament injury for 10 months. Disagree, even if he wasn't going to make it with us this year he would have surely improved as a player, and learnt a hell of a lot training against Championship players and having better coaching imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Slippin cider said: Posh DOF says that Eisa wasted a year of his career when he signed for us .....**** ... He’s trying to justify why they’ve just broken their club transfer record on a bloke who couldn’t even get into our match day squad . Spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, Slippin cider said: Posh DOF says that Eisa has wasted a year of his career when he signed for us .....**** cost Posh an extra £500m by signing for BCFC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, wood_red said: Disagree, even if he wasn't going to make it with us this year he would have surely improved as a player, and learnt a hell of a lot training against Championship players and having better coaching imo. He was being coached by Gary Johnson at Cheltenham wasn't he ? Considered an excellent coach by many on here. Maybe he didn't improve at all whilst here, hence us shipping him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippin cider Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Distortia said: He did, though. It's no good for a player of that age to not play competitive football for an entire year. It's no different to 'wasting a year' if he were out with a cruciate ligament injury for 10 months. It wasn’t wasted though was it, we had to evaluate him and what level he was at in his career, that clearly takes time and the upshot was, he wasn’t good enough to play Championship football at that point, he may do in the future , who knows , but to say it was wasted is utter bovine faeces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Slippin cider said: It wasn’t wasted though was it, we had to evaluate him and what level he was at in his career, that clearly takes time and the upshot was, he wasn’t good enough to play Championship football at that point, he may do in the future , who knows , but to say it was wasted is utter bovine faeces... Why do we retain players and put them out on loan for years then when they are patently not good enough for Championship football but only gave Eisa one season to improve. Very inconsistent as I thought he was another "one for the future" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Slippin cider said: Posh DOF says that Eisa wasted a year of his career when he signed for us .....**** ... While I wouldn't agree entirely, they have a point- no loan in January when Charlton were keen, had a real risk his value could have plummeted- could it have protected value better? Mind you if the reported fee to be believed, us getting what we did is remarkable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, Loon plage said: He was being coached by Gary Johnson at Cheltenham wasn't he ? Considered an excellent coach by many on here. Maybe he didn't improve at all whilst here, hence us shipping him out. I am only guessing here, but I would happily put money on that we have a hell of a lot better setup than what GJ had at Cheltenham regardless if he is a good coach or not. We would therefore in turn be able to coach players better (overall), and probably improve their game to a certain degree, we won't know if Mo trained on and improved but I would say he probably did but just not enough to warrant keeping him another season here. He could go and get 25 goals next season for Posh and good luck to him, as we will have a decent sell on no doubt, so it is just better for all concerned he has moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, wood_red said: I am only guessing here, but I would happily put money on that we have a hell of a lot better setup than what GJ had at Cheltenham regardless if he is a good coach or not. We would therefore in turn be able to coach players better (overall), and probably improve their game to a certain degree, we won't know if Mo trained on and improved but I would say he probably did but just not enough to warrant keeping him another season here. He could go and get 25 goals next season for Posh and good luck to him, as we will have a decent sell on no doubt, so it is just better for all concerned he has moved on. Also, isn't Mo a bit older than our typical "one for the future" purchases? If so then perhaps a decision on his future was more time critical than would normally be the case and without the luxury of a season out on loan. Sounds to me that if the club doubted his ability to make at at our level that Posh's offer was simply too good to refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 Peterborough probably winning the transfer window at the moment. Butler from Newport, Eisa from us and Pym from Exeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Loon plage said: Why do we retain players and put them out on loan for years then when they are patently not good enough for Championship football but only gave Eisa one season to improve. Very inconsistent as I thought he was another "one for the future" Eisa is 25 next month, he was brought here to be part of the first team squad not one for the future. He obviously didn't impress enough or improve enough whilst here. We need a striker and to get shot of him at a profit which can go towards a new signing is obviously good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Shtanley said: Peterborough probably winning the transfer window at the moment. Butler from Newport, Eisa from us and Pym from Exeter. And Beevers too. Beevers and Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortia Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 13:03, Slippin cider said: It wasn’t wasted though was it, we had to evaluate him and what level he was at in his career, that clearly takes time and the upshot was, he wasn’t good enough to play Championship football at that point, he may do in the future , who knows , but to say it was wasted is utter bovine faeces... To be honest I think this backs up the point I was making - we spent a year of his career "evaluating" him only to sell him because he wasn't good enough. I think from his point of view he has just wasted a year of his career. From the club's point of view however it is fine. It was a gamble that didn't pay off but we still made a profit, so I have no complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 02/06/2019 at 00:20, Mr Popodopolous said: If the fee and a profit even if modest is as reported- even after under 10 games this season and his value surely taking a further dent after no loan to a good League One side in January. Well done MA and LJ. Good work on making the best out of a less than ideal situation. As for Eisa...good luck to him. If he does very well at Peterborough, who knows he may join a higher ranked Championship club and come back to haunt us in future. Hard to assess his capability as we saw so little of him! The leap too big at this time, this being compounded by no January loan to a high up League One side..fairly remarkable that we appear to have made a profit!? Perhaps, Just perhaps a league 1 team pays in installments ? You know, £x up front £x sale to premier league etc. Possibly, Peterborough has paid all the money claimed by City fans in one go. Alternatively Mcanthony might be saying in a dishonest timeshare way that if Mo ticks all boxes then they will pay out a record amount. Did City say undisclosed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 01/06/2019 at 16:51, JBFC II said: He doesn’t have any, he doesn’t like giving the club any praise whatsoever... He don't suck ass like you either. Maybe Mr Popodopolus will be able to interpret the accounts in due course to see whether the club absolutely smashed it eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Loon plage said: He don't suck ass like you either. Maybe Mr Popodopolus will be able to interpret the accounts in due course to see whether the club absolutely smashed it eh. No need for that really is there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 13:48, wood_red said: I am only guessing here, but I would happily put money on that we have a hell of a lot better setup than what GJ had at Cheltenham regardless if he is a good coach or not. We would therefore in turn be able to coach players better (overall), and probably improve their game to a certain degree, we won't know if Mo trained on and improved but I would say he probably did but just not enough to warrant keeping him another season here. He could go and get 25 goals next season for Posh and good luck to him, as we will have a decent sell on no doubt, so it is just better for all concerned he has moved on. What L1 club agrees a sell on when they buy from a side in the Championship ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, JBFC II said: No need for that really is there... Don't agree you said I never praise the club. I don't actually believe everything I am told by the club but they are very very much in my heart regardless of that..ok ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Loon plage said: What L1 club agrees a sell on when they buy from a side in the Championship ? We have a large one with Forest Green Rovers and McCoulsky so not technically League 1 but a league lower, so on that basis I would be amazed if we do not have one with Eisa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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