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England Fans clash


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17 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

....and we've never been at war with Portugal (is this a myth, or fact? Think it's correct) either. And Portugal provided "logistical" support during both the Falklands in '82, and WWII. As, no doubt, they are only too aware. Yet still they do this?

 

Portugal is our oldest ally, far back to The Middle Ages.

The great Portuguese Prince, Henry the Navigator, had an English mother

Charles II's queen was Portuguese and is credited with popularising tea in England; she also introduced English cheesecakes on her return to Portugal.

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10 hours ago, phantom said:

Martin Tyler called it in the commentary 

Those at the ground are England football supporters those causing the problems are English abroad 

Not according to Henry Winter who says they were booing the PFA Player of the year

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Can't stand 'lads'...can never get my head around grown men feeling the need to sing and chant away from a football stadium. Just missing dummies and high chairs.

As adults...behave like adults...does anyone ever think about how their actions are effecting others anymore?

Just selfish behaviour...that tars everyone.

Seen it first hand this week abroad...Brits in bars, pissed and high on coke in front of families with kids...they just don't give a toss, as long as they are having a good time.

Usually fat, bloated sunburnt gobby shites, that would have shit themselves and cried like babies if put on a landing craft 75 years ago...

I watch our old heroes...and then look at the likes of these...

Classless and selfish and often just fat bloated gobby cowards.

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39 minutes ago, spudski said:

Can't stand 'lads'...can never get my head around grown men feeling the need to sing and chant away from a football stadium. Just missing dummies and high chairs.

As adults...behave like adults...does anyone ever think about how their actions are effecting others anymore?

Just selfish behaviour...that tars everyone.

Seen it first hand this week abroad...Brits in bars, pissed and high on coke in front of families with kids...they just don't give a toss, as long as they are having a good time.

Usually fat, bloated sunburnt gobby shites, that would have shit themselves and cried like babies if put on a landing craft 75 years ago...

I watch our old heroes...and then look at the likes of these...

Classless and selfish and often just fat bloated gobby cowards.

Spot on and well said. Poingnant D-Day coverage shows how real men behave, compared to the louts in Porto.

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17 hours ago, Undy English said:

England & Portugal have one of the oldest recorded alliances in history that survives to this day, the Treaty of Windsor being set up during Elizabeth I's reign.

Portugal have been good allies to us throughout history, from issues surrounding to Gibraltar to the more recent WW2/Falklands as you point out. 

Shouldn’t matter either way. Wars are fought for politicians. These ‘lads’ aren’t the army defending the country against soldiers and should respect the civilians of any country regardless of politics. 

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6 minutes ago, RedSA said:

Shouldn’t matter either way. Wars are fought for politicians. These ‘lads’ aren’t the army defending the country against soldiers and should respect the civilians of any country regardless of politics. 

You say wars are fought for politicians but a moment's reflection will show you the absurdity of such a view as regards The Second World War.  I for one are pleased and humbled by my father's generation who fought the scourge of Nazism that we might be free.  

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6 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

You say wars are fought for politicians but a moment's reflection will show you the absurdity of such a view as regards The Second World War.  I for one are pleased and humbled by my father's generation who fought the scourge of Nazism that we might be free.  

I think you misunderstand my point. 

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11 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Love going away, getting lashed, singing songs and having a laugh with my mates. Easy for people to sneer behind phones or on the sofa.

I must have the English disease.

yes, you do seem like the type who would.

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20 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Love going away, getting lashed, singing songs and having a laugh with my mates. Easy for people to sneer behind phones or on the sofa.

I must have the English disease.

You absolutely do, and that's your right. But you don't recognise that there's a proportion that believe that booze and numbers somehow absolves them from acting like normal people and enables them to lash out at anyone asking for the tiniest amount of reason and good conduct.

That proportion has been dormant since the Bad Old Days, but has grown since 2016. Correlation isn't important, but what is important is that if you know in your heart that you're a decent bloke who doesn't take it too far, I think you should tell the people who *do*, not just us non-lads. These knuckledraggers need a gentle prod to say that not everyone is like them, even if they're you're mates. ESPECIALLY if they're your mates as - in my view - telling your mate that they're out of order is what makes the difference between being a mate and being a friend.

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27 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Love going away, getting lashed, singing songs and having a laugh with my mates. Easy for people to sneer behind phones or on the sofa.

I must have the English disease.

Not having a go, just genuinely curious, what were your opinions of the footage of England fans from Porto? To me, Portugal & the rest of the world, it looked like very drunk, sunburnt England fans littering central square, intimidating the locals, standing on bar furniture and acting like louts/yobs. Nothing to be proud about.

Going to footy and having a few beers and a sing song is great, all for it, but what I saw from Porto was taking it to another extreme. 

Like I said, not having a go, just genuinely interested in your opinions on this one, as my above description is what I saw from news footage, but others might be seeing something totally different.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

Can't stand 'lads'...can never get my head around grown men feeling the need to sing and chant away from a football stadium. Just missing dummies and high chairs.

As adults...behave like adults...does anyone ever think about how their actions are effecting others anymore?

Just selfish behaviour...that tars everyone.

Seen it first hand this week abroad...Brits in bars, pissed and high on coke in front of families with kids...they just don't give a toss, as long as they are having a good time.

Usually fat, bloated sunburnt gobby shites, that would have shit themselves and cried like babies if put on a landing craft 75 years ago...

I watch our old heroes...and then look at the likes of these...

Classless and selfish and often just fat bloated gobby cowards.

Throughout your posts over the years, I've noticed you've got a bit of a problem with people who are any different to you. 

You don't like people who talk a different way to you, remember a comment or two made on posts to do with Bobby Reid 'Down wiv da kidz & Gansta' . 

You don't like people who drink in Wetherspoons. 

You don't like fat people. Sunburnt is a new one though!

Now it's people who like to have a sing song away from the stadium. Why do you let these things bother you so much? 

You get a few idiots & as usual you get a few people going massively OTT reacting to it. 

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7 minutes ago, Undy English said:

Not having a go, just genuinely curious, what were your opinions of the footage of England fans from Porto? To me, Portugal & the rest of the world, it looked like very drunk, sunburnt England fans littering central square, intimidating the locals, standing on bar furniture and acting like louts/yobs. Nothing to be proud about.

Going to footy and having a few beers and a sing song is great, all for it, but what I saw from Porto was taking it to another extreme. 

Like I said, not having a go, just genuinely interested in your opinions on this one, as my above description is what I saw from news footage, but others might be seeing something totally different.

I'm not interested in fighting, throwing plastic furniture or gobbing off at the local populace. 

Stuff like that does happen, but it's small pockets, always has been. 

There probably 25000 in Portugal and a couple of hundred knobheads whats that like 1/2% of the people over there.

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13 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I'm not interested in fighting, throwing plastic furniture or gobbing off at the local populace. 

Stuff like that does happen, but it's small pockets, always has been. 

There probably 25000 in Portugal and a couple of hundred knobheads whats that like 1/2% of the people over there.

Fair play to you, and I'm sure a lot of England fans abroad are great ambassadors for the country.

But some of our travelling support often needs to see things from a local's perspective: even if your not fighting, behaviour such as all day heavy drinking and loud boisterous singing isn't welcome in a lot of places.

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3 minutes ago, Undy English said:

Fair play to you, and I'm sure a lot of England fans abroad are great ambassadors for the country.

But some of our travelling support often needs to see things from a local's perspective: even if your not fighting, behaviour such as all day heavy drinking and loud boisterous singing isn't welcome in a lot of places.

I just think if you’re going to host a football match, loud boisterous chanting should be expected. Every nation will do it!

Just the pricks jumping on cars & throwing bottles need to be sorted out. English fans should self police to stop issues down the line with actual Police. 

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19 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

English fans should self police to stop issues down the line with actual Police. 

Euro '16 shows our stellar track record with this issue. It should be fairly obvious why this didn't happen last year.

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I think England fans have missed an opportunity, 200 should dress all in black, run round hospitalising grandads and teenagers, not only would we get a well done from parliament, we'd probably be awarded the next world cup... 

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1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

Throughout your posts over the years, I've noticed you've got a bit of a problem with people who are any different to you. 

You don't like people who talk a different way to you, remember a comment or two made on posts to do with Bobby Reid 'Down wiv da kidz & Gansta' . 

You don't like people who drink in Wetherspoons. 

You don't like fat people. Sunburnt is a new one though!

Now it's people who like to have a sing song away from the stadium. Why do you let these things bother you so much? 

You get a few idiots & as usual you get a few people going massively OTT reacting to it. 

A sing song 😂😂😂😂

Think you're missing the point completely. 🤪

There are a certain element of our culture that follow football that I despise.

I can generalise...but they are often 'lads' who are intent on getting drunk, taking drugs, to a point where they don't ever consider how their actions are effecting others...it's all about them and sod what other people think.

Often it's in front of families, women and children...as I witnessed again only this week abroad.

These people 'bother me' so much, because they effect everyone around them.

I'm all up for high spirits, a laugh and some fun, but when it takes over and effects others enjoyment...or frightens women and children, then yes...it bothers me.

Perhaps I've been brought up in a way where I respect others, and think of them as well as myself.

Yes...I despise grown men getting pissed in groups, chanting football songs, and 'taking over a place' with total disregard for others.

It's completely mindless imo.

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20 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Fair play. Did you try to get in touch with the media? They would run stories like that. But if they don’t know about them they can’t.

I don’t think too many of these idiots are planting new wineries on the Duoro.

I've been following England home & away since 1996, & only missed a few games, probably up at the 200 game mark. Believe me the number of England fans being great ambassadors vastly outnumbers the idiots on every single trip. Unfortunately that doesn't sell newspapers or make good TV ("16000 England fans have a great time with the locals" - not going to make the headlines is it).

As a club, does BCFC have to odd few that want some? Yes we do. Does it represent the rest of us? No it doesn't.

We have a national issue with idiots. Go into any city / town / village in the UK & there's always a couple of nobs wanting a fight or behaving unacceptably. Does it represent the vast majority of night time revellers? No. Unfortunately the press want to make the same % following the England team representative of us.

 

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6 hours ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Weirdly this article is just about a clip showing England fans having their ball taken by the PSP (police) and singing about wanting it back. I almost imagine it is a tongue in cheek story or its clickbait (I don't know the website myself).

As it happens the Portuguese are more patient than one might imagine - there is a certain pride in Portugal to identify with things  British (Britain is an influencer), in this case the importance it confers on Portugal to have so many here.

Reports have been more about the scale of attendance in cities rather than the problems. Unfortunately humour ("bants") rarely translates and worse, the biggest problem in all of this is some aren't half as funny as they think they are.

This is the social media generation version of Brits abroad, everything is for filming on phones for clicks. How can I be centre of attention for how hilarious I am. Get in the biggest crowd I can find, then climb on a car or throw something.

Brilliant example of both above points - last night before the England game, RTP the main national broadcaster had a live report 30 minutes before KO from outside the ground, reporter explaining scale of event with crowds around him.

Two England fans walked past in Delboy masks, then hid behind him and peeked their Delboy masks out from behind him. It was actually very funny when you know Delboy's cheeky expression, I don't think it even needed any translation.

But then a succession of drunker groups walk past and some just stand in front of the reporter (fair enough, transfer deadline day levels of humour if you like that sort of stuff) but then it gets progressively cruder and downright offensive.

Had manual manipulator signs, two fingers to camera, and other gestures that certainly translate. And this is going out to most of Portugal. It isn't illegal, it's just cringeworthy and makes everyone look like morons, even before reports of actual issues.

The reaction from local people I've spoken to or overhead isn't "had enough" more pity for how stupid these people look. And this from a people with great respect for all things British, who see Britain as influencer and leader in the world.

The great irony is a lot of the people behaving like idiots are the ones who back in England go on about protecting British identity. To most people round the world this lot are doing most to destroy the identity and influence Britain had built.

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1 hour ago, Olé said:

Weirdly this article is just about a clip showing England fans having their ball taken by the PSP (police) and singing about wanting it back. I almost imagine it is a tongue in cheek story or its clickbait (I don't know the website myself).

As it happens the Portuguese are more patient than one might imagine - there is a certain pride in Portugal to identify with things  British (Britain is an influencer), in this case the importance it confers on Portugal to have so many here.

Reports have been more about the scale of attendance in cities rather than the problems. Unfortunately humour ("bants") rarely translates and worse, the biggest problem in all of this is some aren't half as funny as they think they are.

This is the social media generation version of Brits abroad, everything is for filming on phones for clicks. How can I be centre of attention for how hilarious I am. Get in the biggest crowd I can find, then climb on a car or throw something.

Brilliant example of both above points - last night before the England game, RTP the main national broadcaster had a live report 30 minutes before KO from outside the ground, reporter explaining scale of event with crowds around him.

Two England fans walked past in Delboy masks, then hid behind him and peeked their Delboy masks out from behind him. It was actually very funny when you know Delboy's cheeky expression, I don't think it even needed any translation.

But then a succession of drunker groups walk past and some just stand in front of the reporter (fair enough, transfer deadline day levels of humour if you like that sort of stuff) but then it gets progressively cruder and downright offensive.

Had manual manipulator signs, two fingers to camera, and other gestures that certainly translate. And this is going out to most of Portugal. It isn't illegal, it's just cringeworthy and makes everyone look like morons, even before reports of actual issues.

The reaction from local people I've spoken to or overhead isn't "had enough" more pity for how stupid these people look. And this from a people with great respect for all things British, who see Britain as influencer and leader in the world.

The great irony is a lot of the people behaving like idiots are the ones who back in England go on about protecting British identity. To most people round the world this lot are doing most to destroy the identity and influence Britain had built.

Spot on.

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5 hours ago, finbarr_in_z said:

I've been following England home & away since 1996, & only missed a few games, probably up at the 200 game mark. Believe me the number of England fans being great ambassadors vastly outnumbers the idiots on every single trip. Unfortunately that doesn't sell newspapers or make good TV ("16000 England fans have a great time with the locals" - not going to make the headlines is it).

As a club, does BCFC have to odd few that want some? Yes we do. Does it represent the rest of us? No it doesn't.

We have a national issue with idiots. Go into any city / town / village in the UK & there's always a couple of nobs wanting a fight or behaving unacceptably. Does it represent the vast majority of night time revellers? No. Unfortunately the press want to make the same % following the England team representative of us.

This is different from what you said before about being good guests, and where it falls down for me. “Fans acting like normal humans” doesn’t deserve a pat on the back. The great atmosphere last night, though, does - and it got recognised by Neville on TV.

Creating an us and them, like they’re not England fans or not our problem. They very much are. And yeah, every nation has them. But we have plenty. If you’ve been there since 1996 I’m sure you remember Euro 2004, for instance.

One example of why it’s not just about “the English media”: With the total shambles which was the Portuguese organisation last night we had to ask nicely to be let into a hotel foyer until taxis started serving Guimaraes again.

The woman receptionist told us they’d been put off by what happened in Porto on Wednesday (and they didn’t even read the English media). A few other guys were there and drunkenly demanded she phone their hotel in Porto so it would organise them a taxi. A bit rowdy but hey, they’re pissed.

Said taxi was ordered at a cost of €120 to them, but five minutes before it turned up another one rocked up outside. She told them to wait as they would be charged anyway even if they didn’t get the one they ordered, but they screamed in her face and got in it anyway.

She let people into the hotel, looked after us all, sorted everyone out with travel and her lasting memory of England fans will be getting verbally abused by a load of drunken idiots for her troubles.

That’s one example but given what happened on Wednesday and the coincidence that trouble always seems to follow England, I’m sure it’s not the only one so yes, it is “only a minority”, but still totally embarrassing.

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17 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Portugal is our oldest ally, far back to The Middle Ages.

The great Portuguese Prince, Henry the Navigator, had an English mother

Charles II's queen was Portuguese and is credited with popularising tea in England; she also introduced English cheesecakes on her return to Portugal.

Ivor, you’ve managed to slip an interesting fact about cheesecake into a thread regarding English hooligans. I doff my hat sir. 

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I love reading these views on here.

very balanced , showing both sides of a very passionate argrument regarding behaviour of a very very small percentage of ‘ England fans”., which as stated seem to be the only ones who get the media interest, although is that any difference to football matches in the uk?? 

Its an area of football policing I am genuinely interested in, do we need  more education to these fans in the uk on a local level? Football banning orders have stopped those convicted of football related offences travelling but the groups that have replaced them are more tricky to deal with due to perceived low level of the behaviour that they exhibit in uk, which gets magnified by heat, and more alcohol at England games abroad .

genuine question and open to all views- what would you all do to try and improve the behaviour abroad? 

Englandvtravel club has worked well but some fans we have spoken to at the airport have brought tickets direct from uefa or not even bothered going to the game . !! 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I love reading these views on here.

very balanced , showing both sides of a very passionate argrument regarding behaviour of a very very small percentage of ‘ England fans”., which as stated seem to be the only ones who get the media interest, although is that any difference to football matches in the uk?? 

Its an area of football policing I am genuinely interested in, do we need  more education to these fans in the uk on a local level? Football banning orders have stopped those convicted of football related offences travelling but the groups that have replaced them are more tricky to deal with due to perceived low level of the behaviour that they exhibit in uk, which gets magnified by heat, and more alcohol at England games abroad .

genuine question and open to all views- what would you all do to try and improve the behaviour abroad? 

Englandvtravel club has worked well but some fans we have spoken to at the airport have brought tickets direct from uefa or not even bothered going to the game . !! 

 

 

It's not a football fans problem perse, but a British Culture problem.

It starts with society. Football fans who are socially inept, are no different to others who don't follow football.

You've only got to witness these socially inept types on a weekend in any British City on a weekend, or when abroad.

The mentality with some, is to just drink, take drugs to such an extreme every weekend, to a point that they aren't in control of their faculties anymore. 

They wear it with a badge of honour. Talking about it during the week...how smashed they got and how great it was.

You don't see it so much in other countries...many just drink to enjoy and stop at their limit.

It imo, is a British Cultural problem...not a football problem.

Until that changes, which I don't think it will, then I don't think you'll ever be able to stop or control it better.

From travelling, it's very much a British and Eastern European plight. 

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8 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I love reading these views on here.

very balanced , showing both sides of a very passionate argrument regarding behaviour of a very very small percentage of ‘ England fans”., which as stated seem to be the only ones who get the media interest, although is that any difference to football matches in the uk?? 

Its an area of football policing I am genuinely interested in, do we need  more education to these fans in the uk on a local level? Football banning orders have stopped those convicted of football related offences travelling but the groups that have replaced them are more tricky to deal with due to perceived low level of the behaviour that they exhibit in uk, which gets magnified by heat, and more alcohol at England games abroad .

genuine question and open to all views- what would you all do to try and improve the behaviour abroad? 

Englandvtravel club has worked well but some fans we have spoken to at the airport have brought tickets direct from uefa or not even bothered going to the game . !! 

 

 

We could have a hooligan World Cup where mouth breathers from every country get together every four years to beat the crap out of each other in a stadium.

We could have mock up bars with prizes for the most tables overturned and windows smashed.

We could also have innocent bystanders to get caught up in the mêlée.

To make it interesting we could then select riot control police from such countries as Russia , China , Bolivia ... who would ‘ fill their boots ‘ .

Another reply would be ‘ yes , we need more education ‘.

It all boils down to respect for others and sadly there is little of that on show in society in general.

Since the sixties those who should be respected and should merit our respect have gradually been seen to take advantage of their positions , priests, police , teachers , politicians, royal family...have mostly let the people down .

The behaviour of many of those in authority has eroded the belief that they should be looked up to.

If these people cannot command respect what chance do others have ? 

The genie is out of the bottle and cannot be put back in . 

Could national or community service help with trying to restore dignity all round ?

Our society needs a reboot based more on love of mankind and the  planet we live on and much , much less on egoism and consumerism that blights our ‘ lives ‘ .

 

Normal service will return as the Major gets back to bad jokes and puns as soon as possible.

Please bear with us .

In the meantime here’s a little music 🎼 🎶🎵

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