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England Fans clash


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3 hours ago, JulieH said:

I love reading these views on here.

very balanced , showing both sides of a very passionate argrument regarding behaviour of a very very small percentage of ‘ England fans”., which as stated seem to be the only ones who get the media interest, although is that any difference to football matches in the uk?? 

Its an area of football policing I am genuinely interested in, do we need  more education to these fans in the uk on a local level? Football banning orders have stopped those convicted of football related offences travelling but the groups that have replaced them are more tricky to deal with due to perceived low level of the behaviour that they exhibit in uk, which gets magnified by heat, and more alcohol at England games abroad .

genuine question and open to all views- what would you all do to try and improve the behaviour abroad? 

Englandvtravel club has worked well but some fans we have spoken to at the airport have brought tickets direct from uefa or not even bothered going to the game . !! 

 

 

Personally speaking, their peers should take some responsibility, we all drink with that one person who is a nuisance, but we pull him back into line. 

Watching England abroad 15 years ago we were surrounded with violence, now it's all about a younger generation on a stag weekend. 

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5 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not a football fans problem perse, but a British Culture problem.

It starts with society. Football fans who are socially inept, are no different to others who don't follow football.

You've only got to witness these socially inept types on a weekend in any British City on a weekend, or when abroad.

The mentality with some, is to just drink, take drugs to such an extreme every weekend, to a point that they aren't in control of their faculties anymore. 

They wear it with a badge of honour. Talking about it during the week...how smashed they got and how great it was.

You don't see it so much in other countries...many just drink to enjoy and stop at their limit.

It imo, is a British Cultural problem...not a football problem.

Until that changes, which I don't think it will, then I don't think you'll ever be able to stop or control it better.

From travelling, it's very much a British and Eastern European plight. 

I absolutely agree, however it is frustrating not just as a football fan but a football police officer that this is not highlighted more by the media as being the case, instead choosing to only focus on the behaviour when it is around football matches 

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5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

We could have a hooligan World Cup where mouth breathers from every country get together every four years to beat the crap out of each other in a stadium.

We could have mock up bars with prizes for the most tables overturned and windows smashed.

We could also have innocent bystanders to get caught up in the mêlée.

To make it interesting we could then select riot control police from such countries as Russia , China , Bolivia ... who would ‘ fill their boots ‘ .

Another reply would be ‘ yes , we need more education ‘.

It all boils down to respect for others and sadly there is little of that on show in society in general.

Since the sixties those who should be respected and should merit our respect have gradually been seen to take advantage of their positions , priests, police , teachers , politicians, royal family...have mostly let the people down .

The behaviour of many of those in authority has eroded the belief that they should be looked up to.

If these people cannot command respect what chance do others have ? 

The genie is out of the bottle and cannot be put back in . 

Could national or community service help with trying to restore dignity all round ?

Our society needs a reboot based more on love of mankind and the  planet we live on and much , much less on egoism and consumerism that blights our ‘ lives ‘ .

 

Normal service will return as the Major gets back to bad jokes and puns as soon as possible.

Please bear with us .

In the meantime here’s a little music 🎼 🎶🎵

Probably the best post I have ever read on here! 

Thank you 

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7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

We could have a hooligan World Cup where mouth breathers from every country get together every four years to beat the crap out of each other in a stadium.

We could have mock up bars with prizes for the most tables overturned and windows smashed.

We could also have innocent bystanders to get caught up in the mêlée.

To make it interesting we could then select riot control police from such countries as Russia , China , Bolivia ... who would ‘ fill their boots ‘ .

Another reply would be ‘ yes , we need more education ‘.

It all boils down to respect for others and sadly there is little of that on show in society in general.

Since the sixties those who should be respected and should merit our respect have gradually been seen to take advantage of their positions , priests, police , teachers , politicians, royal family...have mostly let the people down .

The behaviour of many of those in authority has eroded the belief that they should be looked up to.

If these people cannot command respect what chance do others have ? 

The genie is out of the bottle and cannot be put back in . 

Could national or community service help with trying to restore dignity all round ?

Our society needs a reboot based more on love of mankind and the  planet we live on and much , much less on egoism and consumerism that blights our ‘ lives ‘ .

 

Normal service will return as the Major gets back to bad jokes and puns as soon as possible.

Please bear with us .

In the meantime here’s a little music 🎼 🎶🎵

I agree with you Major, however...those people in authority also exist in other Countries, and are far worse than here...far more corrupt. The general population in many of those countries are far more well mannered, have respect and better family values.

Imo parenting is the problem...everything starts in the home.

Values and respect are learnt at home first and foremost.

We've allowed an under class to develop. A class of people who feel entitled to everything, with no values, no ethics, no manners, poorly educated at home...

If children see their parents behaving a certain way, they will copy.

People then start to blame schools, governments for their own failings.

We as a Country have become to far soft.

It's too easy to sit on your arse and do nothing. 

There is very little consequence for poor actions in this country.

Look at most of the rest of Europe...whatever background they come from, in general they have far better values and social understanding. Because it's taught in the home from the start.

Go to places like India, parts of Africa and Asia...where often people have nothing and poor education. But the majority are well behaved and have social awareness...again because it's taught in the home. 

And more often than not, they have to get off their backsides to educate themselves, better themselves, and work hard...because if they don't, no one's going to bail them out.

It's a vicious circle in this Country...a catch 22. That's why so many want to come here, because it's an easy life compared to others.

All have had an effect on us developing an under class with no social skills, manners or ethics...yet they feel entitled to everything, and don't care about how they act.

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19 minutes ago, spudski said:

Go to places like India, parts of Africa and Asia...where often people have nothing and poor education. But the majority are well behaved and have social awareness...again because it's taught in the home. 

Providing you’re a man, who’s straight, follows the right religion, and doesn’t ask too many questions, but point taken, they certainly are well drilled, I mean scared, I mean behaved.

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20 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Providing you’re a man, who’s straight, follows the right religion, and doesn’t ask too many questions, but point taken, they certainly are well drilled, I mean scared, I mean behaved.

Interesting quote...I don't see how what you mention effects how people act in this country.

Race, Religion, sex should have no effect on how people act in social situations.

What you quote could easily have been our own country not so many years ago.

When social values were better.

 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Interesting quote...I don't see how what you mention effects how people act in this country.

Race, Religion, sex should have no effect on how people act in social situations.

What you quote could easily have been our own country not so many years ago.

When social values were better.

 

Just agreeing with you how India, African countries and parts of Asia how better social values than ours in the UK

I presume that’s what you meant by social values? How we treat and respect each other, regardless of race religion or gender?

 

Edited by 054123
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9 hours ago, 054123 said:

Just agreeing with you how India, African countries and parts of Asia how better social values than ours in the UK

I presume that’s what you meant by social values? How we treat and respect each other, regardless of race religion or gender?

 

I think you abhor, justifiably, certain parts of the English culture.  I think you are seriously rose tinting the others though.

Suggesting India respects race, religion, gender, and in their culture, caste more than the UK is laughable.

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19 hours ago, phantom said:

Personally speaking, their peers should take some responsibility, we all drink with that one person who is a nuisance, but we pull him back into line. 

Watching England abroad 15 years ago we were surrounded with violence, now it's all about a younger generation on a stag weekend. 

It's this every time. It maybe difficult when a mob are running riot, but when individuals start behaving unacceptably people have to stop standing idly by and hoping someone else will sort it.

I can think of four times in my life when I have had to get involved (two of them quite serious situations) and was staggered and hugely disappointed that other men stood by and watched while a short, fat bloke like me put himself at risk and just stood and watched. I know it can be scary and there is a chance you may end up getting hurt, but if you see someone crossing the line, you absolutely have to step in.

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We got back from Porto last night having had an amazing few days out there. Porto and guimaraes both beautiful cities and the vast majority of England fans enjoyed / respected them as they should - all the walking tours, boat trips etc we went on had loads of england fans on them clearly wanting to get a feel for the place which is one of the great opportunities that comes from following england away.

I didnt see any of the trouble that's been reported but there was definately a large amount of young lads out there interested in getting as drunk as possible and interested in congregating in large numbers / being boisterous etc which is never good - I'd estimate a couple of thousand of the 20k out there.

The problem with the 10% getting all the media attention is that it makes the 90% who are some of the most passionate football fans you'll ever meet who love football, travel and enjoying a few drinks whilst doing it question whether they want to be associated with it all - even though they know the reality of being there is very different to what's portrayed in the media.

The last thing we need is for the majority decent fans to stop going and make the idiot few become more prominent.

There needs to be more balance in the reports. I may have missed it but there doesn't seem to be much coverage of the hundreds of residents of guimaraes coming out onto the streets after Sunday's game clapping the england fans as they walked back to the station. This was old ladies, families etc and one of the best moments of my time watching football anywhere and I think reflected the fact that they respected the fact that so many turned up for a meaningless game on a Sunday lunchtime, created a carnival atmosphere in the town with (as far as I know) no trouble / flashpoints etc.

There are so many good points about England's away following; there really does to be more balance in how it's understood and reported.

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8 hours ago, Zookeeper WSM said:

We got back from Porto last night having had an amazing few days out there. Porto and guimaraes both beautiful cities and the vast majority of England fans enjoyed / respected them as they should - all the walking tours, boat trips etc we went on had loads of england fans on them clearly wanting to get a feel for the place which is one of the great opportunities that comes from following england away.

I didnt see any of the trouble that's been reported but there was definately a large amount of young lads out there interested in getting as drunk as possible and interested in congregating in large numbers / being boisterous etc which is never good - I'd estimate a couple of thousand of the 20k out there.

The problem with the 10% getting all the media attention is that it makes the 90% who are some of the most passionate football fans you'll ever meet who love football, travel and enjoying a few drinks whilst doing it question whether they want to be associated with it all - even though they know the reality of being there is very different to what's portrayed in the media.

The last thing we need is for the majority decent fans to stop going and make the idiot few become more prominent.

There needs to be more balance in the reports. I may have missed it but there doesn't seem to be much coverage of the hundreds of residents of guimaraes coming out onto the streets after Sunday's game clapping the england fans as they walked back to the station. This was old ladies, families etc and one of the best moments of my time watching football anywhere and I think reflected the fact that they respected the fact that so many turned up for a meaningless game on a Sunday lunchtime, created a carnival atmosphere in the town with (as far as I know) no trouble / flashpoints etc.

There are so many good points about England's away following; there really does to be more balance in how it's understood and reported.

Exactly how I saw it, had a cracking time (except the England games!!)

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On 08/06/2019 at 08:23, JulieH said:

I love reading these views on here.

very balanced , showing both sides of a very passionate argrument regarding behaviour of a very very small percentage of ‘ England fans”., which as stated seem to be the only ones who get the media interest, although is that any difference to football matches in the uk?? 

Its an area of football policing I am genuinely interested in, do we need  more education to these fans in the uk on a local level? Football banning orders have stopped those convicted of football related offences travelling but the groups that have replaced them are more tricky to deal with due to perceived low level of the behaviour that they exhibit in uk, which gets magnified by heat, and more alcohol at England games abroad .

genuine question and open to all views- what would you all do to try and improve the behaviour abroad? 

Englandvtravel club has worked well but some fans we have spoken to at the airport have brought tickets direct from uefa or not even bothered going to the game . !! 

 

 

Only been going on and off for 29 years so can’t really talk about the 80 ,s when it was fair to say euro 88 was the swansong for football violence on the England front.

the big changes iv noticed are these 

looking at some from pictures from euro 92 ,most England fans were male with very few women going where now many of the fan base are female who probably travel with boy friends,husbands which I think makes a major difference on how many behave

before easy jet ,etc ,travel was much more complicated and the thought off spending 2 days on a bus to get to Poland was probably not very appealing to your average mate who did not have much interest in foot ball

these days that’s totally different for less then £100 you can get to most big city’s in Europe if you book early which is much more appealing to your average mate who fancy’s a jolly 

lastly footballs changed, things england did 30 years ago is which happened at foot matches home here are were classed as the norm . I said on here previously years back you had 10% hell bent on trouble and the other 90% more then happy to join in ,where now you would look a dick.. 

thats my take on things but iv loved going ,meeting different fans and going to places I would never had gone to and making friends for life 

i

 

 

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I did England away games from 1990 to 2000 

The first in Ireland 1990 was as bad as city millwall in 85 for fist to fist brawling.

Euro 92 Sweden was bad because the locals wanted to have a go especially in Stockholm. Lovely city though

Then went to Norway Ireland again France Holland etc I did it cuz it was great fun with the boys.They were my holidays.

Every penny I earnt then went on watching city or England.

But as sticks 1969 says everything has changed .

I just wonder why no one went to russia💪 The boys on the steroids might have missed watching love island

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As always because it’s England it gets massively blown out of proportion, a handful of knobs that can’t handle their drink acting like bellends happens in every town centre every weekend and on away days too. 

Couple of examples of other countries hooligans, unsure of what games they were but Russia - Supporters running riot with 6in nails embedded into Baseball bats, people killed. Greece I think it was a stadium was actually torched during a game due to their side losing! and Argentina the crowd violence within stadiums over their is something else. Yet hardly anyone hears about these incidents,  with no punishments mentioned or if they do it’s usually a paltry fine, but if this happened over here or English fans doing similar abroad we’d get torn a new one from every association possible. These ****ts in the videos need to grow up but we as a nation shouldn’t be judged by FIFA/UEFA or whoever on what happened X amount of years ago.

 

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On 12/06/2019 at 18:47, sticks 1969 said:

Only been going on and off for 29 years so can’t really talk about the 80 ,s when it was fair to say euro 88 was the swansong for football violence on the England front.

the big changes iv noticed are these 

looking at some  pictures from euro 92 ,most England fans were male with very few women going where now many of the fan base are female who probably travel with boy friends,husbands which I think makes a major difference on how many behave

before easy jet ,etc ,travel was much more complicated and the thought off spending 2 days on a bus to get to Poland was probably not very appealing to your average mate who did not have much interest in foot ball

these days that’s totally different for less then £100 you can get to most big city’s in Europe if you book early which is much more appealing to your average mate who fancy’s a jolly 

lastly football has changed, things england did 30 years ago is what  happened at foot matches home here and were classed as the norm . I said on here previously years back you had 10% hell bent on trouble and the other 90% more then happy to join in ,where now you would look a dick.. 

thats my take on things but iv loved going ,meeting different fans and going to places I would never had gone to and making friends for life 

i

 

 

 

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Didn’t see any trouble but only there from Saturday to Tuesday. Sounds like the stuff on Wednesday was overblown by media too. Clearly there are some small numbers of idiots who still cause trouble tho. 

Only thing stupid I did see was some ******** doing a two footed challenge on a homeless drunk bloke - twice. He quickly got taken away by the Policia. 

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