Rooney Rule Introduced

[Pezo]

 

52 minutes ago, RedM said:

Can’t everyone just apply if they are interested in the job and have experience and qualifications and personality and be appointed or not by the club on how they ‘fit’. If certain people get automatic interviews based on skin colour where does it stop, does every woman who is qualified etc get an interview too? 

Must have quotas for everything it worked so well for the USSR. 

[Redinthehead]

36 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Very good point,the LGBTQ’s like a moan up as well so they will be on the interview list soon as well 

You seem to like a moan as well, maybe you’ll be on the list.

[joe jordans teeth]

11 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

You seem to like a moan as well, maybe you’ll be on the list.

I know shit about football and I’m a white English male so wouldn’t bank on it 

[A Darkwood Red]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

John Barnes says everyone is unconsciously racist. What absolute nonsense.

Is it? 

Can you say you have no prejudices? I don't think I can. I don't think of myself as being racist certainly not consciously anyway but I can't I've never looked at someone different and thought differently about them. Surely that's what he means? 

If we all accepted that then dealing with it would be so much easier. If we can all agree that we All have prejudices then we can could all change it. 

[Redinthehead]

3 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

I know shit about football and I’m a white English male so wouldn’t bank on it 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Which if true makes this rule pathetic.

I’m of the belief that the candidate which those who conducted the interviews decide is best, is final. 

Why does ethnicity matter?

Are football club owners/directors etc generally that backward to depreciate someone for their ethnicity? I wouldn’t believe so.

Imagine being the one Asian guy being interviewed, knowing that you’re only there because you’re Asian (and you applied (obviously))?! Seems worse to me than actually earning/warranting an interview.

The one thing that a long career in senior management has taught me is that the people who tend to succeed at interviews are... the people who are good at interviews.  And they are not necessarily the best people for the job.  Interviews by their nature favour particular groups, such as extroverts, the privileged, people who are physically attractive, people with good speaking voices.  Almost every interview is decided on first impressions, or close to first impressions.  It’s an inherently unsatisfactory way to make decisions.  The idea that the best candidate for a job will be successful at interview is a fallacy.  In truth, interviews are a complete lottery.

[joe jordans teeth]

11 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

The one thing that a long career in senior management has taught me is that the people who tend to succeed at interviews are... the people who are good at interviews.  And they are not necessarily the best people for the job.  Interviews by their nature favour particular groups, such as extroverts, the privileged, people who are physically attractive, people with good speaking voices.  Almost every interview is decided on first impressions, or close to first impressions.  It’s an inherently unsatisfactory way to make decisions.  The idea that the best candidate for a job will be successful at interview is a fallacy.  In truth, interviews are a complete lottery.

Spot on,look at lee Johnson he is a perfect example of interviewing well,will never struggle to get a job whereas a Alex Ferguson wouldn’t get a look in nowadays 

[The Coach]

Imagine being sat in a waiting room with other potential candidates and you are either black, asian or other ethic minority. Four other candidates are in the room waiting based upon their skillset and experience to date. You on the other hand, are there on merit of your skin colour. I would be absolutely embarrassed. 

People should be judged on the inside, not on the outside. 

[BCFC11]

If your good enough you’ll get a chance regardless of skin colour. Fact is there isn’t enough qualified BAME coaches. Tosspots like Jason Roberts and Dwight Yorke don’t help citing racism at every opportunity.

[Pickle Rick]

23 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

The one thing that a long career in senior management has taught me is that the people who tend to succeed at interviews are... the people who are good at interviews.  And they are not necessarily the best people for the job.  Interviews by their nature favour particular groups, such as extroverts, the privileged, people who are physically attractive, people with good speaking voices.  Almost every interview is decided on first impressions, or close to first impressions.  It’s an inherently unsatisfactory way to make decisions.  The idea that the best candidate for a job will be successful at interview is a fallacy.  In truth, interviews are a complete lottery.

True. And interviews have to take place even though the job is already ‘taken’. Can be a personal/favourable choice, credentials aside.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, A Darkwood Red said:

Is it? 

Can you say you have no prejudices? I don't think I can. I don't think of myself as being racist certainly not consciously anyway but I can't I've never looked at someone different and thought differently about them. Surely that's what he means? 

If we all accepted that then dealing with it would be so much easier. If we can all agree that we All have prejudices then we can could all change it. 

Well I know I am not racist. Yes surely it is nonsense to say everyone is racist

[TinMan's left peg]

14 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

If your good enough you’ll get a chance regardless of skin colour.  

I’m not sure that’s true.  The people doing the appointing (chairmen / directors of football etc) are universally white.  Some on this thread have dismissed John Barnes but he is well worth listening to on this subject. He’s not being judgmental or accusatory, just realistic. He’s a really smart guy who knows football well and how it works. Unconscious bias is a real thing. Lord knows there’s plenty of conscious bias evident around this world every day.  

[A Darkwood Red]

54 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well I know I am not racist. Yes surely it is nonsense to say everyone is racist

I really wasn't saying you were, it was a comment on society and people in general. 

[big dosser]

im not racist but the rooney rule is utter shite

[EmissionImpossible]

15 minutes ago, forestofdean said:

im not racist but the rooney rule is utter shite

That old chestnut 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

If a coach has ALL the required qualifications (badges) for a job and he puts his hat in the ring absolutely he should be interviewed. Regardless of creed or colour. 

Like ANY job if u ain't qualified you probably won't get an interview, and that's not racist that's just life. 

What id like to know is how many black and ethic coaches have these quals and have been denied an interview. If that is a lot then we have an issue, if not get the  badges and we'll talk.

[big dosser]

5 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

That old chestnut 

being a project manager I have been put in a few situations where I have had to justify my desions.2 months ago I interviewed 15 people for a multitrade job half way through a interview with a Jamaican gentlemen he says (I never get a good job because I is black)what that gent did not know is I have 6 blacks 3 polish 1 Romanian 2 Russians and 2 travellers working for me along side the rest of the gents and lady's which yes are white. The fact was he tried to use THAT OLD CHESNUT which with myself fell on deaf ears..

the fact was his interview was rubbish he new nothing about the job,asbestos health and safety ppe risks cosh so no he did not get the job and that is why he has not got many jobs.so I would have a good think when you put that old chestnut

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, TinMan's left peg said:

I’m not sure that’s true.  The people doing the appointing (chairmen / directors of football etc) are universally white.  Some on this thread have dismissed John Barnes but he is well worth listening to on this subject. He’s not being judgmental or accusatory, just realistic. He’s a really smart guy who knows football well and how it works. Unconscious bias is a real thing. Lord knows there’s plenty of conscious bias evident around this world every day.  

So it’s got nothing to do with Barnes being a shite manager and trying to deflect that fact onto something inflammatory..?

[JoeAman08]

I remember when the NFL adopted the rule. It had similar reactions to this thread. The rule however is a step forward in sports. I remember the Pittsburgh Steelers had a vacancy and they wanted to appoint someone who had been around and was white. This was in the rules infancy keep in mind. They had to interview outside what they wanted. So they interviewed a man named Mike Tomlin and they were so blown away by the interview that they hired him. He went on to be very successful for them and the rule wasn’t really talked about after. 

The rule isn’t even talked about anymore. It served its purpose and now minority candidates are routinely interviewed and get top jobs. This will help get a few stellar coaches through the doors and even if they do not get initial jobs it should help them earn a reputation in the game if they are qualified. I am not sure it will help unintelligent candidates get jobs just makes sure intelligent ones get fair opportunity. This will not be a bad change for the game. 

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

The one thing that a long career in senior management has taught me is that the people who tend to succeed at interviews are... the people who are good at interviews.  And they are not necessarily the best people for the job.  Interviews by their nature favour particular groups, such as extroverts, the privileged, people who are physically attractive, people with good speaking voices.  Almost every interview is decided on first impressions, or close to first impressions.  It’s an inherently unsatisfactory way to make decisions.  The idea that the best candidate for a job will be successful at interview is a fallacy.  In truth, interviews are a complete lottery.

Depends on the job. Certain roles, an attractive young woman is best. Others a smart middle aged man might be. Others may be more suited to a gay/camp man, others a more butch lady. 

It depends what you are interviewing for. 

Appearance is not the be all & end all, of course... but there’s no one particular best way to look, as different jobs require different types. 

I disagree with any rules saying that someone MUST be interviewed based on race, colour, creed or sex. Those who are qualified and wish to apply, should. Then the best suited gets the job. 

To prove the point - I’ve even employed a gashead in the past..!

[EmissionImpossible]

34 minutes ago, forestofdean said:

I have 6 blacks 3 polish 1 Romanian 2 Russians and 2 travellers working for me along side the rest of the gents and lady's which yes are white.  

[FlintSaidNo]

The Rooney rule isn’t guaranteeing a job for BAME candidates, what it addresses is the unconscious bias. People don’t think of a BAME person when they think of a manager because there are very few BAME managers. They are subconsciously  disregarding all BAME candidates because of their ethnicity. It’s not a conscious or malicious decision, but when they’re picturing their new manager, they’re picturing a certain person, maybe a young man with lots of fresh ideas, or a more grizzled and experienced face who’s been there and done it, but either way it’ll be a white man. They never decided to only hire white men, but anything that makes you different from that image will put you at a disadvantage. All the Rooney rule does is force clubs to genuinely consider a BAME candidate. Assuming the people in charge aren’t consciously racist, once they’ve given the BAME candidate the interview and accepted to themselves that they are a viable candidate, they’ll be given just as fair a chance as any other candidate. If they’re not suitable for the job they won’t be given it, but if they are suitable then they will be, whereas in the past they wouldn’t even have been given the opportunity to demonstrate their suitability

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, FlintSaidNo said:

The Rooney rule isn’t guaranteeing a job for BAME candidates, what it addresses is the unconscious bias. People don’t think of a BAME person when they think of a manager because there are very few BAME managers. They are subconsciously  disregarding all BAME candidates because of their ethnicity. It’s not a conscious or malicious decision, but when they’re picturing their new manager, they’re picturing a certain person, maybe a young man with lots of fresh ideas, or a more grizzled and experienced face who’s been there and done it, but either way it’ll be a white man. They never decided to only hire white men, but anything that makes you different from that image will put you at a disadvantage. All the Rooney rule does is force clubs to genuinely consider a BAME candidate. Assuming the people in charge aren’t consciously racist, once they’ve given the BAME candidate the interview and accepted to themselves that they are a viable candidate, they’ll be given just as fair a chance as any other candidate. If they’re not suitable for the job they won’t be given it, but if they are suitable then they will be, whereas in the past they wouldn’t even have been given the opportunity to demonstrate their suitability

People don’t think of BAME managing their club because colour race or religion isn’t important,it’s what’s best for the club is what is important.Think  Simon Jordan sums it up best when he said “owners and chairman would hire Osama bin laden if he thought it would bring them success”

[Guest]

7 hours ago, A Darkwood Red said:

I really wasn't saying you were, it was a comment on society and people in general. 

Yes I know. I'm saying I'm not, you're not, many people are not racist. John Barnes says all people are racist. That's wrong.

[LondonBristolian]

11 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I’m of the belief that the candidate which those who conducted the interviews decide is best, is final. .

That is literally how the Rooney Rule would work though. Nobody is saying the best candidate at the interviews would not get the job.

[FlintSaidNo]

5 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

People don’t think of BAME managing their club because colour race or religion isn’t important,it’s what’s best for the club is what is important.Think  Simon Jordan sums it up best when he said “owners and chairman would hire Osama bin laden if he thought it would bring them success”

But the point is they won’t think of a BAME candidate as being what’s best for the club due to their unconscious biases. If you’re right and there is absolutely no unconscious bias in the situation, then this rule will make no difference to anything. I can’t see how people can object to it because worst(/best, depending on your point of view) case scenario it does nothing and best case scenario it has a positive effect on the state of the game and the status of BAME people within it

[pillred]

17 hours ago, JonDolman said:

John Barnes says everyone is unconsciously racist. What absolute nonsense.

I'm assuming he's including himself then.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pillred said:

I'm assuming he's including himself then.

Yep must be

[steveybadger]

16 hours ago, Ohbasso said:

I don’t think the rules a bad thing I just think that there’ll never be a higher percentage of BAME managers unless they can persuade more to get their badges. You have to be in it to win as they say.

True. Hopefully this will encourage the take up.

[BS4 on Tour...]

16 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Ince started at Macc, then went to Blackburn where he was shit.

Wonder where Sol will go.

Ince started at Swindon as player-coach, then went to MK Dons after leaving Macc - he wasn’t shit at MK - got them promoted and won FL Trophy in his first season there ...