Elruliri Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Begley said: So why was the reported first bid to Ipswich from Bristol City for Webster only 2m? Then it was negotiated up to 3.5m plus a lot of add ons. Bristol City (sensibly) went in with a low bid first. It sets the bar and disrupts the player because a club that can offer more immediate better opportunities and a bigger pay packet wanted to sign him. So now when the situation is reversed its all about principles Principals are paying the fee you agree and making those payments on time, Something Villa can't do. We've helped Villa out once with the Baker deal. I personally think he would be a great player for a club like Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, JonDolman said: So Bournemouth might be selling Ake to Man city for 40 million. Could they also be in for Webster? Highly likely as Webster is a good player but it could also means they may keeps Mings. If Villa don't get Mings it could push the price up that Villa are prepared to pay for Webster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Begley said: Nobody saw the Jota signing or the Wesley signings for Villa, they were a surprise. Information gets leaked as there are so many different parties involved. How come everyone expected Kalas to sign? How come there were rumours leaked to say he was close to signing. How do you know Bryan's agent wasn't leaking information to try and get a PL club interested. The simple fact is that you don't but it suits the narrative to try and make out that Villa were the party leaking information Kalas is not a good comparison. Chelsea wanted to sell, we wanted to buy. Much more like your position with Mings then. Bryan was in the last year of his contract and wanted to leave, as was publicly known. Webster is under contract and has not asked to leave. Again, not equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Elruliri said: Principals are paying the fee you agree and making those payments on time, Something Villa can't do. We've helped Villa out once with the Baker deal. I personally think he would be a great player for a club like Everton What principle did Villa not keep? Villa asked Bristol City to change the terms as they were struggling with cash flow. Its not like they didn't nor refuse to pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Begley said: Highly likely as Webster is a good player but it could also means they may keeps Mings. If Villa don't get Mings it could push the price up that Villa are prepared to pay for Webster I'd take 20 million plus Mousset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Begley said: How do you know Villa leaked it? Pure conjecture. Why didn't Villa leak Jota or Wesley? How do you know it was not Webster's agent? How do you know it wasn't BC trying to create more interest in Webster? As I said, suits the narrative. There are no certainties of course but you seem unable to grasp that we are not looking to sell and Webster is not pressing for a move. So ask yourself, on the balance of probabilities, who had the greatest incentive to leak? Jota would have been a doddle given the state Brum are in so again not comparable. He wanted the move, they needed to sell. You may get Webster in the end but on terms that are acceptable to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elruliri Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Begley said: What principle did Villa not keep? Villa asked Bristol City to change the terms as they were struggling with cash flow. Its not like they didn't nor refuse to pay I can't walk into Tesco's and say, I'll pay you £50 quid and £50 quid next week. If I lend a mate £50 quid I'd expect it back the next week not in £10 instalments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Begley said: What principle did Villa not keep? Villa asked Bristol City to change the terms as they were struggling with cash flow. Its not like they didn't nor refuse to pay How about the principle of managing the club's finances responsibly so you don't have to go cap in hand to little Bristol City to get you out of a hole of your own making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, chinapig said: How about the principle of managing the club's finances responsibly so you don't have to go cap in hand to little Bristol City to get you out of a hole of your own making? You are aware of the change in Chinese law which prohibited people taking money out of the country to put into businesses like football clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, Elruliri said: I can't walk into Tesco's and say, I'll pay you £50 quid and £50 quid next week. If I lend a mate £50 quid I'd expect it back the next week not in £10 instalments.... Did you ever hear of the scenario where certain factors impact a business' cash flow and they speak to debtors and creditors to ask to renegotiate terms? If you recall, the Baker money was money that Bristol City owed Villa and not a debt owed by Villa to Bristol City. Villa asked Bristol City to pay Villa the money that Bristol City owed them on different terms. The different terms introduced an earlier term for repayment and would no doubt have reduced the amount of debt that Bristol City had with Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Begley said: You are aware of the change in Chinese law which prohibited people taking money out of the country to put into businesses like football clubs? All the more reason to manage the finances responsibly from day one then. Live within your means and don't splurge money you don't have for instance. Still, much like Derby fans, Villa fans seem to at best indifferent to and at worst positively proud of the financial mismanagement of their clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Begley said: Did you ever hear of the scenario where certain factors impact a business' cash flow and they speak to debtors and creditors to ask to renegotiate terms? If you recall, the Baker money was money that Bristol City owed Villa and not a debt owed by Villa to Bristol City. Villa asked Bristol City to pay Villa the money that Bristol City owed them on different terms. The different terms introduced an earlier term for repayment and would no doubt have reduced the amount of debt that Bristol City had with Aston Villa. Dear me, so now you were doing us a favour?! You came to us with the begging bowl, not the other way around. I appreciate that may not be good for the big club ego but there you are. As you are desperately trying to pretend your club was not criminally mismanaged it's a circular, closed debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, chinapig said: Dear me, so now you were doing us a favour?! You came to us with the begging bowl, not the other way around. I appreciate that may not be good for the big club ego but there you are. As you are desperately trying to pretend your club was not criminally mismanaged it's a circular, closed debate. I thought the Baker deal helped Villa out due to them owing us still for the Kodja transfer where we had their pants down. It then meant it netted off some of what they owed us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, chinapig said: As to Webster, word locally is that he is not agitating for a move ... What have you heard? And from whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 41 minutes ago, Elruliri said: I can't walk into Tesco's and say, I'll pay you £50 quid and £50 quid next week. If I lend a mate £50 quid I'd expect it back the next week not in £10 instalments.... 15 minutes ago, Begley said: Did you ever hear of the scenario where certain factors impact a business' cash flow and they speak to debtors and creditors to ask to renegotiate terms? If you recall, the Baker money was money that Bristol City owed Villa and not a debt owed by Villa to Bristol City. Villa asked Bristol City to pay Villa the money that Bristol City owed them on different terms. The different terms introduced an earlier term for repayment and would no doubt have reduced the amount of debt that Bristol City had with Aston Villa. In fairness, that is what happened. Say the fee was £4m over his 4 years, might’ve been £1m a year. A year later, we owe £3m / 3 years, and Villa ask (knowing we’ve just sold £25m+ of players) if we’d settle the rest now, say knocking of £500k, so eventual fee is £3.5m. No idea of the numbers but fee overall was definitely reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, INCRED said: I thought the Baker deal helped Villa out due to them owing us still for the Kodja transfer where we had their pants down. It then meant it netted off some of what they owed us? We agreed to reschedule payments so they got the Baker money early to help with their cash flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, chinapig said: We agreed to reschedule payments so they got the Baker money early to help with their cash flow. Well whatever we did, we went out of our way to help them from getting further in the mire when they were on their knees financially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: What have you heard? And from whom? Reported in the BP days ago that he was not asking for a move. He is happy here and If he knew the bid was nowhere near acceptable there wouldn't be much point in doing so I guess. Perhaps if Villa get a lot closer to our terms that might change, which is fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, INCRED said: Well whatever we did, we went out of our way to help them from getting further in the mire when they were on their knees financially You charged Villa for helping them out by repaying the debt early. Hardly some huge charitable act but it was a business transaction that suited both parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, chinapig said: Reported in the BP days ago that he was not asking for a move. He is happy here and If he knew the bid was nowhere near acceptable there wouldn't be much point in doing so I guess. Perhaps if Villa get a lot closer to our terms that might change, which is fair enough. With due respect, anything reported in the BP sports section doesn’t fill me with any confidence as to its accuracy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, chinapig said: As you are desperately trying to pretend your club was not criminally mismanaged it's a circular, closed debate. I have posted on here that Villa was run like a basket case. We spent money badly on the wrong and overpriced players. The law change in China didn't help but that was really only covering over the cracks. There is no desperation in what I said. It was a simple business transaction. Bristol City had a financial debt with AVFC. AVFC had cash flow problems. AVFC offered BC a discount to repay earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Begley said: You charged Villa for helping them out by repaying the debt early. Hardly some huge charitable act but it was a business transaction that suited both parties Terms that benefitted Villa due to their poor cash flow position and financial management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Begley said: I have posted on here that Villa was run like a basket case. We spent money badly on the wrong and overpriced players. The law change in China didn't help but that was really only covering over the cracks. There is no desperation in what I said. It was a simple business transaction. Bristol City had a financial debt with AVFC. AVFC had cash flow problems. AVFC offered BC a discount to repay earlier. Yes, you came to us for help and we agreed. We could have said no, clean up your own mess. I'm beginning to wish we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: With due respect, anything reported in the BP sports section doesn’t fill me with any confidence as to its accuracy ... As you wish, but if he did want out his agent would have it all over the media by now I'm sure. Like Zaha for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, INCRED said: Terms that benefitted Villa due to their poor cash flow position and financial management Plus other factors mainly the law in China changing but as I have said many times on here Villa was very badly managed under Xia. Why are the constant posts to highlight that Xia's ownership of Villa was very bad. The theme of 'we are better than you' is not flattering, kind of like what many people on here say as the reason they don't like Villa 4 minutes ago, chinapig said: Yes, you came to us for help and we agreed. We could have said no, clean up your own mess. I'm beginning to wish we had Why do you wish you hadn't, it saved you money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, chinapig said: As you wish, but if he did want out his agent would have it all over the media by now I'm sure. Like Zaha for example. Fair enough, but @Loco Rojo posted on here that “Webster was a pissed off player with a *** of an agent” - I asked what he or she meant but got a strange reply about “the devil” so haven’t taken it further - but he or she seemed to indicate the agent was agitating for a move ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Begley said: Plus other factors mainly the law in China changing but as I have said many times on here Villa was very badly managed under Xia. Why are the constant posts to highlight that Xia's ownership of Villa was very bad. The theme of 'we are better than you' is not flattering, kind of like what many people on here say as the reason they don't like Villa Why do you wish you hadn't, it saved you money? Because you are apparently unable to admit that you came to us because you were in trouble. It evidently sticks in your craw to concede that point, which makes you come across like the more typical Villa fan, which is a shame. We should end this debate though, one to one's are still bad netiquette! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Fair enough, but @Loco Rojo posted on here that “Webster was a pissed off player with a *** of an agent” - I asked what he or she meant but got a strange reply about “the devil” so haven’t taken it further - but he or she seemed to indicate the agent was agitating for a move ... Again, I would expect it to be all over the media if that was the case. It's what agents do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begley Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, chinapig said: Because you are apparently unable to admit that you came to us because you were in trouble. It evidently sticks in your craw to concede that point, which makes you come across like the more typical Villa fan, which is a shame It doesn't bother me in the slightest to admit Villa was in trouble and badly managed. It is a football club, I support them but I do not in any way feel responsibility with how AVFC is managed and nor do I have any issue recognising the truth as to how AVFC was and is managed. Yes we had cash flow issues which we could have avoided with more prudent fiscal management but we didn't. We approached Bristol City with a proposal to pay the money back early with more preferential financial terms. We needed help and found a solution to it which suited both Villa and Bristol City. Why the parochial attitude toward football. Its a game, its fun, we enjoy winning, we enjoy competing, we enjoy the transfer windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Begley said: It doesn't bother me in the slightest to admit Villa was in trouble and badly managed. It is a football club, I support them but I do not in any way feel responsibility with how AVFC is managed and nor do I have any issue recognising the truth as to how AVFC was and is managed. Yes we had cash flow issues which we could have avoided with more prudent fiscal management but we didn't. We approached Bristol City with a proposal to pay the money back early with more preferential financial terms. We needed help and found a solution to it which suited both Villa and Bristol City. Why the parochial attitude toward football. Its a game, its fun, we enjoy winning, we enjoy competing, we enjoy the transfer windows. 100% agree, generally we all support the club of our fathers / local club so why the need for arguments over payment terms of a player we will likely not be remembering 10 years from now baffles me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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