Adam Webster - Update - Sold to Brighton

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

If Clarke is heading our way for a year, we wouldn't have the pressure to sign someone immediately I suppose although I agree that LJ would have had his targets already identified.

My concern is that, if Clarke comes on loan, will we be in a position to sign a quality left sided CH next year or will we have spent the money elsewhere? I wouldn't have thought we would be so naive as to do that, at least I hope we wouldn't.

Or do a deal with them (like JDS) that in a year we sign him?

[Ska Junkie]

Just now, phantom said:

Or do a deal with them (like JDS) that in a year we sign him?

Maybe. Would he be the first player to sign for a club and move on a perm without ever playing?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, NOTBLUE said:

Was told last night,by someone who works at Ashton Gate,that Webster and Palmer are both done deals and will be announced either today or tomorrow.He’s not known as a wind up merchant,so make of it what you will.

What job does your ‘someone’ at AG do?  I’m not saying it’s not true, but amazed at who supposedly knows what.

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Journalist on Twitter saying 25%. But their fans say 10%. Everyone was saying 20%. So no one seems to know how much Ipswich get, and even if it's of profit or of overall fee. As it sounded like Ipswich fans thought it was 10% of overall fee. Usually it is of profit though so who knows.

I saw something else Re Ipswich, can’t remember the player, but it was 10% for that player.  Could be true of Webster.

FWIW, I certainly agree that Webster is a fine ball-playing CB (arguably the best in the Champ), and a very tidy defender, add them together and you get a very good Champ CB.  But imho, Kalas is a better defender, just not so good on the ball.  As a pair they are an excellent partnership.

Can we sell Webster for £25m and replace him for a fraction of the money?  Yes.  

We might not get quite the ball-playing skills of Webster but we may get a better defender.  Hector is arguably a better defender, imho he is, and he’s pretty comfortable on the ball, not Webster class.  He’s got aggression too.  We could be better defensively!

I know that sounds far fetched, but let’s wait and see.

As for whether Webster is Prem class depends on your definition.  Top 6 side regular CB.  Unlikely.  Bottom 8 regular, yes sir.  When you’ve seen players like Macauley and Dawson play hundreds of Prem games, even Duff (now £40m rated), there is no reason to not think Webster isn’t capable.

the £25m also gives us options to strengthen elsewhere.  Would love him to stay but there is a bigger picture.  Who we replace ‘ bring in with the money will be telling.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Do you mean from this level or League One?

A lot of it may have been the stadia and infrastructure- I was convinced for a while that they could have breached FFP but did some digging and think they likely complied in the 3 years until May 2017.

@AshtonGreat

Brighton a smaller club historically potentially yes.

However, a few figures to ponder- am using BCFC Holdings Accounts for avoidance of doubt:

From 2010/12 to 2012/13.

Bristol City- (Championship) 2010/11 v Brighton- (League One) 2010/11

• Turnover- £11,994, 649  v £5,925,822 
• Average Attendance 14,605 v 7,352
• Commercial Income- Struggling to find it for us, certainly not listed as its own category but between £3-3.5m maybe v £743,593.

Bristol City- (Championship) 2011/12 v Brighton- (Championship) 2011/12 

• Turnover- £11,876,923  v £22,192,554 
• Average Attendance 13,846 v 20,029
• Commercial Income- Struggling to find it for us, certainly not listed as its own category but between £3.3-4m maybe v £3,941,07

Bristol City- (Championship) 2012/13 v Brighton- (Championship) 2012/13 

• Turnover- £9,903,422  v £23,389,185 
• Average Attendance 13,348 v 26,326
• Commercial Income- Struggling to find it for us, certainly not listed as its own category but between £1.9-2.6m maybe v £4,204,166. Dunno if you'd class catering income as commercial or not, certainly if so then it's close to £6m.

I won't yet even get into the differences between us in League One and during ground redevelopment lower attendances and higher than it was but not optimum income streams!

This is how they were in a position and a much stronger one to push for the PL before us, despite being the "smaller club".

I feel sure it was the reported position when they were promoted to the Prem, though a lot may have been infrastructure costs.

Like us they have a committed owner but as you says they got their act together a lot sooner.

[BobBobSuperBob]

16 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

To be fair if KITR figures are correct and we’re paying our best player £12k, it’s no wonder we don’t keep them.

He’s very underpaid here if he’s on £12k

 

11 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Sounds about right to me for when he wa actually signed from Ipswich having been in and out of their team and with an injury record that wasn't good.

I would think he would be offered a better contract after last season but when a Premier league club comes in, thats it - gone.

This

When we signed him I’d say that was about right - if he’d stayed I’d guess he would have been looking at a contract with %50 increase or more

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I feel sure it was the reported position when they were promoted to the Prem, though a lot may have been infrastructure costs.

Like us they have a committed owner but as you says they got their act together a lot sooner.

Debt and losses not necessarily the same- debt to owner, who is a fan and committed so all alright but yeah quite possible they could have debt but not losses, with a fair whack as infrastructure.

They did indeed- our sudden growth is great but there are clubs who have had this infrastructure for 20-25 years or at least in Brighton's case 2011. Be it strong academies, grounds yielding high revenues or both and more. We're catching up, not stealing a march on many. However that combined with momentum and impetus, captured during a strong growth period, could push us ahead of many who have had it for a while.

[chinapig]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Debt and losses not necessarily the same- debt to owner, who is a fan and committed so all alright but yeah quite possible they could have debt but not losses, with a fair whack as infrastructure.

They did indeed- our sudden growth is great but there are clubs who have had this infrastructure for 20-25 years. Be it strong academies, grounds yielding high revenues or both and more. We're catching up, not stealing a march on many.

That's my point, we wasted years, and a lot of money, through short term thinking. 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

This transfer , if it goes through, reinforces the need to take your chances when they come. Last season we were in a great position with a great defence but chose not to go for it and get the striker we needed in January. Now we look like losing our best defender and face the prospect of rebuilding at the back even if we get the striker we need. And the rate at which we are losing are best players you never know when the chance might come again.

And the reality that constantly losing  key players,,needing to replace those key players will eventually turn to bite us on the ass..

Only takes the one season to get it very wrong & it's back to the 'old drawing board. 

 

[BRISTOL86]

20 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

But as a player that arrived for around £3.5m & signed a 4 year contract, would you suggest we gave him £30,000 p/w from the start?

Not at all, but our best players should be our biggest earners, and I’d hope after the season he had we made him a new offer in the summer. If we didn’t, we can’t really moan about PL interest and having his head turned by money. 

[Sturny]

Hope this goes over the line today and we can cracking with other signings 

[downendcity]

24 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I keep laughing at this 

Tbf I think you will find it was LJ talked about six fold salaries 

Us to Brighton ?

Six fold

No chance

 

 

Whether it's a 6 fold increase I don;t know, but  I wouldn't be surprised if he will be on £40k+  pw - that's over £2m pa in real money and a huge increase over whatever he earns at City. 

For a young guy in his 20s, how is he going to turn down the chance to be setup for the rest of his life and to play in the premier league,  no matter how the club appeal to him on the basis of giving us just one more season?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

Whether it's a 6 fold increase I don;t know, but  I wouldn't be surprised if he will be on £40k+  pw - that's over £2m pa in real money and a huge increase over whatever he earns at City. 

For a young guy in his 20s, how is he going to turn down the chance to be setup for the rest of his life and to play in the premier league,  no matter how the club appeal to him on the basis of giving us just one more season?

 

I agree - but the six fold claim is nonsense IMHO

As for offering him a new contract this summer , even if we’d made him our equal top earner the wage increase at Brighton and Premier League football would have turned his head anyway 

And if we’d lost our heads and tripled his wages , we still can’t offer him Premier League Football

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I agree - but the six fold claim is nonsense IMHO

As for offering him a new contract this summer , even if we’d made him our equal top earner the wage increase at Brighton and Premier League football would have turned his head anyway 

And if we’d lost our heads and tripled his wages , we still can’t offer him Premier League Football

If he’s really only on 12k then it’s really not too far fetched. He’s going to be their record signing isn’t he? So not going to be on peanuts. Can’t imagine him coming in on much less than Dunk. 

By the time you add in all the bonuses and stuff which must be well over our equivalents, I can’t imagine the claim will be that far out in terms of his gross ‘package’ here vs there.

Maybe 4 or 5 times instead of 6 but probably in the right ball park. 

[Tipps69]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Not at all, but our best players should be our biggest earners, and I’d hope after the season he had we made him a new offer in the summer. If we didn’t, we can’t really moan about PL interest and having his head turned by money. 

I agree to an extent but as stated, he signed a 4 year contract when he joined & was happy with those terms. Similarly would you expect the club to approach Baker & say “look, you aren’t really earning your wage, so we’re putting you on £7k p/w!”

It’s the risk of the contract, we gave a player that was seen as more than a little injury prone a 4 year contract, I doubt anyone thought that when we signed him that within 12 months we would be selling him for up to £30m & what’s to say that we haven’t offered Webster new terms this summer only for him to say that he wants to go to the Premier League?

Not many, if any know what actually goes on behind the scenes.

[Notbarrymanc]

1 hour ago, redsince1994 said:

Yep, in a month I am off to a much more lucrative job. In my final 30 days I plan to work just as hard, and put my all into training my replacement so the business isn't harmed by my departure.

Well then you’re a busy fool. The business will not notice if you do not apply yourself, and your bias of your impact are classic Dunning-Kruger symptoms. 

 

Fwiw I handed my notice in yesterday, and I haven’t applied myself for months, since my head got turned. It’s basic psychology. That’s why they stick people on gardening leave. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Well then you’re a busy fool. The business will not notice if you do not apply yourself, and your bias of your impact are classic Dunning-Kruger symptoms. 

 

Fwiw I handed my notice in yesterday, and I haven’t applied myself for months, since my head got turned. It’s basic psychology. That’s why they stick people on gardening leave. 

Wow

[Simon bristol]

People on here comparing footballers to real jobs are stretching things a bit. Paying a mechanic 50k a month and then not having him not fix your car properly is a whole different kettle of fish. Footballers downing tools in public when they are already fabulously wealthy is quite different. 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

This transfer , if it goes through, reinforces the need to take your chances when they come. Last season we were in a great position with a great defence but chose not to go for it and get the striker we needed in January. Now we look like losing our best defender and face the prospect of rebuilding at the back even if we get the striker we need. And the rate at which we are losing are best players you never know when the chance might come again.

your lucky, at my age I've been through this scenario more times than I care to mention, it seems to be what we have to put up with I'm afraid, get used to it!

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I agree to an extent but as stated, he signed a 4 year contract when he joined & was happy with those terms. 

I agree in theory but we all know football doesn’t work like that!

[downendcity]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I agree - but the six fold claim is nonsense IMHO

As for offering him a new contract this summer , even if we’d made him our equal top earner the wage increase at Brighton and Premier League football would have turned his head anyway 

And if we’d lost our heads and tripled his wages , we still can’t offer him Premier League Football

Spot on Bob.

In Webster's case I also think his injury track record will have affected his thinking and decision.

One more bad injury could ruin any chance of this opportunity coming round again. He could get injured at Brighton, but at least then  he will have the financial security of an £8-10m contract, depending on the length of his contract ( probably longer for amortisation purposes).

As with Bryan and Reid, I cannot see any player turning down the chance of a move like this. Fans thinking the club/LJ could "put an arm around the player" and offer a move if they give us one more season is naive. Also don;t forget the influence of the players agent. Think of how much Webster's agent will make out of his move - is he going to let his client turn the move don to give City one more year?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

Spot on Bob.

In Webster's case I also think his injury track record will have affected his thinking and decision.

One more bad injury could ruin any chance of this opportunity coming round again. He could get injured at Brighton, but at least then  he will have the financial security of an £8-10m contract, depending on the length of his contract ( probably longer for amortisation purposes).

As with Bryan and Reid, I cannot see any player turning down the chance of a move like this. Fans thinking the club/LJ could "put an arm around the player" and offer a move if they give us one more season is naive. Also don;t forget the influence of the players agent. Think of how much Webster's agent will make out of his move - is he going to let his client turn the move don to give City one more year?

 

I think the only way to sell it would be to convince Webster that if he performed again next year that we’d get him a move to a bigger Prem Club

The reality is , he will know , go to Brighton and perform and he will get that anyway

[ScottishRed]

8 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I agree to an extent but as stated, he signed a 4 year contract when he joined & was happy with those terms. Similarly would you expect the club to approach Baker & say “look, you aren’t really earning your wage, so we’re putting you on £7k p/w!”

It’s the risk of the contract, we gave a player that was seen as more than a little injury prone a 4 year contract, I doubt anyone thought that when we signed him that within 12 months we would be selling him for up to £30m & what’s to say that we haven’t offered Webster new terms this summer only for him to say that he wants to go to the Premier League?

Not many, if any know what actually goes on behind the scenes.

We may well have done and he may well have been happy with that offer but when a PL club comes in for you the money we would / maybe offering would be blown away.

I think he had a magnificent season and was not injured which was more than any of us expected from him. Good luck to the lad lets just hope we spend the money swiftly and more importantly - wisely.

[downendcity]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think the only way to sell it would be to convince Webster that if he performed again next year that we’d get him a move to a bigger Prem Club

The reality is , he will know , go to Brighton and perform and he will get that anyway

He's replacing Dunk, and look what's just happened to him?

[Alessandro]

Without knowing exactly what Brighton might offer Webster, a 6 fold increase in salary for a championship player moving to prem is not unheard of i'm sure.

The likes of Bobby and Bryan went from 5/6k per week to 30/40k per week - so LJ has experience of players wanting to take the chance to increase their salaries 6 fold.

[Desso]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What job does your ‘someone’ at AG do?  I’m not saying it’s not true, but amazed at who supposedly knows what.

I saw something else Re Ipswich, can’t remember the player, but it was 10% for that player.  Could be true of Webster.

FWIW, I certainly agree that Webster is a fine ball-playing CB (arguably the best in the Champ), and a very tidy defender, add them together and you get a very good Champ CB.  But imho, Kalas is a better defender, just not so good on the ball.  As a pair they are an excellent partnership.

Can we sell Webster for £25m and replace him for a fraction of the money?  Yes.  

We might not get quite the ball-playing skills of Webster but we may get a better defender.  Hector is arguably a better defender, imho he is, and he’s pretty comfortable on the ball, not Webster class.  He’s got aggression too.  We could be better defensively!

I know that sounds far fetched, but let’s wait and see.

As for whether Webster is Prem class depends on your definition.  Top 6 side regular CB.  Unlikely.  Bottom 8 regular, yes sir.  When you’ve seen players like Macauley and Dawson play hundreds of Prem games, even Duff (now £40m rated), there is no reason to not think Webster isn’t capable.

the £25m also gives us options to strengthen elsewhere.  Would love him to stay but there is a bigger picture.  Who we replace ‘ bring in with the money will be telling.

Couldn't agree more.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I keep laughing at this 

Tbf I think you will find it was LJ talked about six fold salaries 

Us to Brighton ?

Six fold

No chance

I know Villa were going to offer Webster £60k pw so £70k ish is likely.

56 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

To be fair if KITR figures are correct and we’re paying our best player £12k, it’s no wonder we don’t keep them.

He’s very underpaid here if he’s on £12k

You think that's underpaid, you'd be amazed what he was on at Ipswich! Basically a League One wage...

[soultrader]

25 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I agree - but the six fold claim is nonsense IMHO

As for offering him a new contract this summer , even if we’d made him our equal top earner the wage increase at Brighton and Premier League football would have turned his head anyway 

And if we’d lost our heads and tripled his wages , we still can’t offer him Premier League Football

Or maybe he just wants to live by sea?

Brighton beach is better than WSM

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I know Villa were going to offer Webster £60k pw so £70k ish is likely.

You think that's underpaid, you'd be amazed what he was on at Ipswich! Basically a League One wage...

Jeeeez

Footballs ********

Glad I was lucky enough to enjoy the football in the decades I have done

[Tipps69]

21 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I agree in theory but we all know football doesn’t work like that!

Ok, so how happy would you (and everyone else) of been if we had given our £3.5m signing £30k p/w, in the slim hope that he might become a player valued at £30m? It’s simply not viable.

The club simply can’t win, the player is happy with his contract until he decides he is better than that contract, you never hear of anyone saying they aren’t earning their money so give me less. As with all businesses, you pay whoever as little as you can & when the player seems to be better than that value, they move on.

We could of signed Webster on his rumoured £12k p/w & he got injured within a month, he would of been more than happy with £12k p/w then. It’s the risk of the business but very rarely does the club win either way round.

[exAtyeoMax]

25 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Well then you’re a busy fool. The business will not notice if you do not apply yourself, and your bias of your impact are classic Dunning-Kruger symptoms. 

 

Fwiw I handed my notice in yesterday, and I haven’t applied myself for months, since my head got turned. It’s basic psychology. That’s why they stick people on gardening leave. 

Wow, when I left my last job I worked really hard to the best of my ability until I walked out of the door. I'm not going to let my work colleagues down, plus I might need a reference for my next job. 

----

My guessing with Adam not applying himself in the Palace game (if that is the case) is the worry of getting injured.