Adam Webster - Update - Sold to Brighton

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Saunders87 said:

Just to play devils advocate - we said the similar with Kodjia and we wouldn’t sell to a championship rival...

I can’t see his head being turned this summer, depending on how our season is looking maybe in Jan or next window if we fail to get promotion  it will but right now I think he will want to build on last year.

Yeah, although it looked like LJ saw Tammy as his pre-prepared replacement, even shoving Kodjia wide.  Lansdown’s comment was the mistake, but we got a better offer from Villa than Derby and was a good deal overall.

We were in a different financial position then too.

[RED4LIFE]

As much as it pains me to say it, I've heard a deal has been agreed with an un-named Prem team for £20m. 

I have heard this from someone who has given me very good info in the past and I know the people at the club he has links with. 

I really hope it isn't true but knowing who this guy knows, I'm kind of thinking it has some legs. 

Time will tell I suppose but thinking rationally there is no way we can turn down that sort of money.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

As much as it pains me to say it, I've heard a deal has been agreed with an un-named Prem team for £20m. 

I have heard this from someone who has given me very good info in the past and I know the people at the club he has links with. 

I really hope it isn't true but knowing who this guy knows, I'm kind of thinking it has some legs. 

Time will tell I suppose but thinking rationally there is no way we can turn down that sort of money.

20 million up front?

[Guest]

If I were United i'd be bidding 20 odd for Webster. I know that seems a bit OTT, but I believe he can be a top, top centre back even at that level. I just can't see a weakness, and is very good in every area. If they have to spend 80 million on Maguire and the same amount on any other proven player, then their rebuild will cost too much even for them.

[BCFC Rich]

9 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Fully agreed, except I don't have a rice paper hat.

I'm embarrassed for you sir, what kind of self respecting gentleman doesn't own a rice paper hat? 

[RED4LIFE]

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

20 million up front?

**** knows.

Apparently, the deals for Kalas and De Silva are done and LJ is happy to partner TK with Baker for the time being.

Like I said, it's a shame to lose Webster but no Championship club can turn down that sort of money for a CB.

Personally, I hope im being fed bullshit but the same guy told me about our interest in Dwight Gayle about 6 weeks before it became common knowledge and told me about us dropping Lancer Scott for Dunder before it happened so I'm inclined to believe him.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

For £20m it’s fantastic business. Sell, re invest and trust the process. 

 

[RED4LIFE]

8 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

For £20m it’s fantastic business. Sell, re invest and trust the process. 

 

It takes a big leap of faith (or common sense) to think that. As fans, we rarely get to see a player of his quality playing for us, but you are bang on the money.

This is our business model, and we've been told not to get too attached to players, so, as fans, we should be expecting this. The key point for me is how we replace him. 

I've read posts saying that without AW we will finish in the bottom half, and we cant keep selling our best players and hope to succeed. Personally, I think that's not necessarily the case. We've proven that we can buy cheap and sell for big money time and time again over the last few years.

What this does is give us more money to buy players at a higher quality than we have before, and, all being well, make them, and therefore us, better. 

Obviously time will tell if this will work, but after being told a few years back what out policy is, and there being proof that the policy is working with consecutive improvements in league positions, whilst also selling our better players, I cant really argue.

As I noted at the start of this post, it does take huge faith to believe it will work though.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

10 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

It takes a big leap of faith (or common sense) to think that. As fans, we rarely get to see a player of his quality playing for us, but you are bang on the money.

This is our business model, and we've been told not to get too attached to players, so, as fans, we should be expecting this. The key point for me is how we replace him. 

I've read posts saying that without AW we will finish in the bottom half, and we cant keep selling our best players and hope to succeed. Personally, I think that's not necessarily the case. We've proven that we can buy cheap and sell for big money time and time again over the last few years.

What this does is give us more money to buy players at a higher quality than we have before, and, all being well, make them, and therefore us, better. 

Obviously time will tell if this will work, but after being told a few years back what out policy is, and there being proof that the policy is working with consecutive improvements in league positions, whilst also selling our better players, I cant really argue.

As I noted at the start of this post, it does take huge faith to believe it will work though.

12 months ago there was uproar at this injury prone bloke from Ipswich replacing Flint. 

 

“Where will goals come from” etc. 

 

IF he goes, he will do so with getting us a huge profit, and I trust LJ to replace him, like he has with everyone who has left in his tenure. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, RED4LIFE said:

**** knows.

Apparently, the deals for Kalas and De Silva are done and LJ is happy to partner TK with Baker for the time being.

Like I said, it's a shame to lose Webster but no Championship club can turn down that sort of money for a CB.

Personally, I hope im being fed bullshit but the same guy told me about our interest in Dwight Gayle about 6 weeks before it became common knowledge and told me about us dropping Lancer Scott for Dunder before it happened so I'm inclined to believe him.

For 20 million or more I'd sell, but not trust in Baker who is poor on the ball, pretty poor in the air now for some reason, makes key mistakes for goals, goes off injured all the time and is slow. Oh and always worried about him doing a silly challenge too! 

For me it's not that Baker has no ability at all, but something isn't right with him mentally. On a good day he throws himself at everything, positionally he knows where to be, and is a solid enough defender.

But he doesn't look desperate to get that place in the team. He hasnt looked the same player since first half of the season we signed him. And his dribbling and passing skills don't fit in with what we want. I'd get rid and bring in 2 new CBs if we sell Webster. 

Of course the question is who? Obvious answer is Ajayi. He can actually run with the ball very well and is so good in all areas like Webster. We'd probably make huge money on him to a prem club the following summer! He'd be a superb replacement for Webster.

I imagine LJ has a plan if we do sell Webster. I just hope that plan isn't Baker.

[Pezo]

37 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

For 20 million or more I'd sell, but not trust in Baker who is poor on the ball, pretty poor in the air now for some reason, makes key mistakes for goals, goes off injured all the time and is slow. Oh and always worried about him doing a silly challenge too! 

For me it's not that Baker has no ability at all, but something isn't right with him mentally. On a good day he throws himself at everything, positionally he knows where to be, and is a solid enough defender.

But he doesn't look desperate to get that place in the team. He hasnt looked the same player since first half of the season we signed him. And his dribbling and passing skills don't fit in with what we want. I'd get rid and bring in 2 new CBs if we sell Webster. 

Of course the question is who? Obvious answer is Ajayi. He can actually run with the ball very well and is so good in all areas like Webster. We'd probably make huge money on him to a prem club the following summer! He'd be a superb replacement for Webster.

I imagine LJ has a plan if we do sell Webster. I just hope that plan isn't Baker.

I can't imagine the plan would be Baker, we wouldn't have brought in Webster last summer if LJ thought Baker was good enough. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I can't imagine the plan would be Baker, we wouldn't have brought in Webster last summer if LJ thought Baker was good enough. 

Yeah true. Just going on what this guy says. I'd have Wright ahead of Baker anyway, even at left centre back. But yeah would definitely need to replace Webster with real quality.

[Hampshire reds]

To be fair Baker is a good defender at championship level. his problem he is never fit. 

[Elruliri]

I think it shows how far we have moved forward that some think Baker isn't good enough for us.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

To be fair Baker is a good defender at championship level. his problem he is never fit. 

Imo the problem isn't simply that he isn't very good on the ball, passing not very good etc. But more that he is no longer a reliable defender. He keeps making really basic errors. I think he got away with a lot of criticism in the second half of the season when alongside Flint where he made numerous errors. And I think people finally started noticing it last season when he was at fault for a number of goals.

Just off the top of my head Forest opening day got beaten far too easy in the air for equaliser, Villa home game from set piece missed header, Bolton both goals I think, or definitely one of them where he seemed to do some weird jump. Sheffield Wednesday at home he couldn't deal with a simple punt down field he should have headed clear and their player went through and scored. And was it Mason Mount I think that turned him inside out at home to Derby before setting up Waghorn for opener?

There's probably plenty more mistakes, and he didn't even play that many games. So he's not very good on the ball, has no pace, makes loads of mistakes and seems to lack any real desire from what I see, and that could well be the root of the problem. Definitely get rid imo.

[And Its Smith]

43 minutes ago, Elruliri said:

I think it shows how far we have moved forward that some think Baker isn't good enough for us.

Some people also think he doesn’t go off injured a lot! 

[And Its Smith]

I am quite confident Webster will be with us this season. Can’t see who will pay £20m for him. 

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, billywedlock said:

It will be the player that creates the problem. You cannot stop a player moving to the Prem. LJ is simply stating the strength of negotiating position. After that anyones guess with the numbers in the game today and how it would be structured, money up front, add ins etc. It will be around £15m from my random transfer fee generator machine. New signings coming soon to cheer people up.

yep, and fuelled by agent as well (some / most of the time).  Personally I don't think Webster will be tempted away this summer...but interesting what the other poster has been told.

[westonred]

2 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

To be fair Baker is a good defender at championship level. his problem he is never fit. 

Bakers problem is he is fearless and never backs out of a challenge and where most players would back out of a tackle that could hurt them Bakes goes in and gets injured

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

27 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Tend to agree , he was signed to replace Flint, whose sale did not happen and he easily won his place back. Whilst the fee for Flint helped sign Webster, it is Kalas, in terms of player that replaced Flint and Baker did not get a look in after that. Webster in reality replaced Bailey Wright who was alongside Flint. Webster really the first of that type of defender we have had. Kelly we might have assumed was his replacement but he fast tracked a bit too fast. Vyner and Moore not ready (maybe never) for that type of role. Be certain we have an eye on someone, and would not surprise me to see us sign someone in advance of a sale (potential sale) . If we can turn a big profit in 12 months on Webster that is great credit to LJ et al. For me their first real transfer success the others they inherited. Eliasson can be the next. 

I would argue that Reid was their first success. As a player they inherited Reid, but not in the role that brought about the transfer fee obtained. Nobody, but nobody, saw Reid as a striker until LJ transformed him. As a straight midfielder a season earlier we’d have been lucky to have got 6 figures for him and if a bid had come in most on here would have driven him there. 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, westonred said:

Bakers problem is he is fearless and never backs out of a challenge and where most players would back out of a tackle that could hurt them Bakes goes in and gets injured

I don’t think it’s a question of bravery , more of technique.

 

[westonred]

29 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I don’t think it’s a question of bravery , more of technique.

 

What i mean Major is he doesn't shy away from a tackle where others would so i would say he was brave but yes may lack a bit of technique as well 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

An increase in contract of 3 to 4 times his current deal will make him want away in a nano second (average Prem wage £50k a week) . It is romantic to think a player will stay around, the differences in wages are life changing . Years gone by, maybe it could happen, but today it is not feasible unless, unless, you are in receipt of parachute payments. 

Yep agree, I just don’t think the clubs likely to be interested - will pay £20m and £40k per week, on an unproven CB, hence why I think he’ll still be here. It wouldn’t surprise me if he his own contractual bonuses might have kicked in or a new deal has been done. 

As I’ve said the rice paper hat is waiting in the cupboard, but it’s just what I think, no ITK either way. 

Whether LJ’s confident interview on SS has any bearing or whether his new 4 year deal does too, I don’t know. Just my own feelings. 

[JamesBCFC]

17 hours ago, BCFC Richard said:

I'm embarrassed for you sir, what kind of self respecting gentleman doesn't own a rice paper hat? 

I found the problem there.

[bcfctim]

Thing is, interest isn't just going to dry up overnight. If someone's willing to pay £20m now, what's to say we won't also be able to get stupid money next year?

I'm on board totally with the club's philosophy of selling and evolving, but there's a balance to be struck. If you sell too quickly and too readily you don't give yourself a chance to evolve.

There comes a point where money loses it's value. I'd take £10-15m to build on the foundations of an already good team over £25-30m to create a new one from scratch. Any day.

[Davefevs]

All very true BW....might also be worth considering that Webster will have probably cost us some add-ons to his £3.5m initially outlay.  Plus we have a sell-on to Ipswich, so £12m isn’t a simple treble / quadruple what we paid.

If Clarke is going for £5m from League One, then you know players in demand ain’t going cheap.  The stoopid thing is that we want Kalas for only £5m....there’s a huge imbalance depending on whether you’re selling to a team from a higher league than selling to a club a league below.

I can’t believe we got £13m (plus add-ons) for Kelly, but hey-Ho.

As I’ve said before I fully expect Webster and his agent have sat down with MA (and LJ) and discussed what will happen if they get bids of £x or £y.  Webster will have walked out of those meetings either happy or disgruntled.  If he was disgruntled his agent would’ve been touting him around and we’d be hearing more concrete stuff than speculative stuff from teamtalk that triggered others to bring out more fabrication.  All imho

I agree if someone did meet the asking price, we would let Webster make a decision.  Maybe I'm naive, I just don’t think clubs who might go for him can afford to spent a large part of their budget on our CB.  It wouldn’t surprise me if Webster gets a new contract either.  Johnson was very bullish on the tv this week.

Its a good debate though, BW....and we haven’t needed a cross word either.

[Bristol Rob]

Can anyone remember what Ipswich* fans thought of Webster joining us?

*I think it was Ipswich we got him from.

Just wondering if he was highly thought of, one season wonder or injured more than Baker.

[JoeAman08]

25 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Can anyone remember what Ipswich* fans thought of Webster joining us?

*I think it was Ipswich we got him from.

Just wondering if he was highly thought of, one season wonder or injured more than Baker.

Think they like what they saw but injuries kept them from seeing that often. 

 

As for Webster sale price I can imagine us holding out for more than Kelly but it would be less that 20 up front. I could see 15-17 with decent add ons. It is harder to get that fee for Webster than it was to get 13m for Kelly. There was a market for Kelly at that age and experience. Whereas not as many similar sales of 24 year old CBs to the prem. Maguire was 17m a couple seasons ago but had prem experience. Dawson linked with teams for 15m at 30 but has loads of prem experience. Is tough to gauge what he’d go for but I’d expect us to set the market for that type if he did go.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Can anyone remember what Ipswich* fans thought of Webster joining us?

*I think it was Ipswich we got him from.

Just wondering if he was highly thought of, one season wonder or injured more than Baker.

There was some mixed opinions on Webster from Ipswich fans. They all seemed to clearly see how much quality he had on the ball. But some frustrated with his fitness record and some saying he makes mistakes.

Also mixed opinions on the money they received from us. Some think it's good deal as he was injured a lot, some think nowhere near his true value. 

Seems like he has gone onto another level defensively since joining us and has been fit the whole time. Credit to the coaching staff for what they have done with Webster. He wasn't as solid when he first joined us, but really improved quickly after a few slightly dodgy defensive displays.

People talk a lot about his ball playing skills but as a defender he is absolutely superb imo. Quick, dominant, strong, aggressive. Absolute class, what an incredible signing.

 

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Think they like what they saw but injuries kept them from seeing that often. 

 

As for Webster sale price I can imagine us holding out for more than Kelly but it would be less that 20 up front. I could see 15-17 with decent add ons. It is harder to get that fee for Webster than it was to get 13m for Kelly. There was a market for Kelly at that age and experience. Whereas not as many similar sales of 24 year old CBs to the prem. Maguire was 17m a couple seasons ago but had prem experience. Dawson linked with teams for 15m at 30 but has loads of prem experience. Is tough to gauge what he’d go for but I’d expect us to set the market for that type if he did go.

I'm not sure comparisons would form the basis of any negotiation as every transfer is an independent event.

For example it looks possible that Maguire could fetch more than Van Dijk, if a buying club want him badly. Nobody would suggest he is a better player but it could happen because Leicester are in a strong negotiating position as they don't need the money. The continuing inflation in fees also makes comparisons difficult.

We are in a similar position to Leicester, which means we can set the bar high. This will either deter other clubs or mean we get an enormous fee. The former is more likely imo.