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SIGNED: Kasey Palmer ( 4 years, Undisclosed fee)


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14 minutes ago, chinapig said:

For those who want to sign a proven 20 goal Championship striker, last season's list:

Pukki

Tammy

Maupay

Gayle

Sharp

Adams (sold)

Rodriguez

McBurnie

Bowen

How much chance of getting one of those?

We won’t get a proven one. Most of those weren’t proven a year ago 

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7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Somewhere between none and **** all.

Probably. There were more 20+ scorers last season than usual as well. Normally they are rarer - in fact none of the promoted sides in 2017/18 had one.

Yet received wisdom  is that you can't be promoted without one. Work that one out.

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2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

We won’t get a proven one. Most of those weren’t proven a year ago 

Precisely, so many of our fans wouldn't have wanted them. Imagine the response if we had signed some Finnish striker they had never heard of.

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7 minutes ago, RedDave said:

We won’t get a proven one. Most of those weren’t proven a year ago 

Yep and if you look at Maupay and Benrhama at Brentford. They were in good youth teams and had decent loans before they were bought. Should look abroad for a 20 goal type. Might take a year for them to get comfortable but there is talent out there. I mean Maupay was a French U21 he wasn’t unknown. Sometimes need to take a chance.

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45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I still don’t see why so many on here have the opinion that Palmer just strolled around.  For me he ran around with more intensity and put in more tackles than Paterson (who all of a sudden people seem to see as a workhorse).  Desire to get in the box, rather than hang around on the periphery.

I saw no aura akin to JET and Tomlin. I saw a player looking to conclude a good loan spell here, but not given enough minutes.

Yes, he lost balls in poor positions (Wolves - where none of our midfield got on the ball), but what has that got to to with effort?  Lack of options on the pass can contribute too.

I think people of blinkered by his bit of showboating and tarring him with the typical view that showboat = lazy.

By all means, don’t rate the fella, that’s fine, but I don’t get the character assassination for a guy who seems completely balanced, both on and off the pitch.

Good post. It has baffled me that some on here have said he was lazy & strolled around. I saw a player closing down & diving into tackles. He looked sharp & found pockets of space, sometimes from working hard, sometimes from standing still! He may of lost the ball in certain areas & I would attribute this to 3 things, on his part a poor execution, poor movement for him ( something that annoys the hell out of me) & being brave enough to see & try something. Personally think he would be a brilliant signing, because he is better than what we have at doing what he does. COYR 

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I wasn’t there yesterday, but talk of a 4231 - narrow(er) 3 - I can see the logic in that, if we don’t attack one dimensionally, i.e. through the middle.  If it’s about getting Eliasson, Szmodics etc into advanced positions down the sides of the penalty area, like Norwich, Man City, etc, rather than wider (statistically goals don’t come from very wide crosses).  But that won’t happen unless the full-backs provide options too.

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8 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Good post. It has baffled me that some on here have said he was lazy & strolled around. I saw a player closing down & diving into tackles. He looked sharp & found pockets of space, sometimes from working hard, sometimes from standing still! He may of lost the ball in certain areas & I would attribute this to 3 things, on his part a poor execution, poor movement for him ( something that annoys the hell out of me) & being brave enough to see & try something. Personally think he would be a brilliant signing, because he is better than what we have at doing what he does. COYR 

I know.

He might be a difficult player to fit into a system, but his output both on and off the ball (imho) exceeds Pato.  I like Pato, having said that, He’s one of our better technicians, but has the heart of the Tin Man (not that Tinman) from the Wizard of Oz.  On song he has a lot to offer.

Looking forward to seeing Supersonic Sammie Szmodics, can he bring the guile and workrate we’ve missed since Bobby left.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wasn’t there yesterday, but talk of a 4231 - narrow(er) 3 - I can see the logic in that, if we don’t attack one dimensionally, i.e. through the middle.  If it’s about getting Eliasson, Szmodics etc into advanced positions down the sides of the penalty area, like Norwich, Man City, etc, rather than wider (statistically goals don’t come from very wide crosses).  But that won’t happen unless the full-backs provide options too.

Quite. Sterling and Sane tend to play in an area not much more than the width of the penalty box. The aim is to get them in behind the defence and create one on ones. Not a lot of hitting hopeful high balls into the box!

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wasn’t there yesterday, but talk of a 4231 - narrow(er) 3 - I can see the logic in that, if we don’t attack one dimensionally, i.e. through the middle.  If it’s about getting Eliasson, Szmodics etc into advanced positions down the sides of the penalty area, like Norwich, Man City, etc, rather than wider (statistically goals don’t come from very wide crosses).  But that won’t happen unless the full-backs provide options too.

Don’t understand how you think it exceeds Pato. Palmer against Wolves especially had me raging. Pato has never done that 

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18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know.

He might be a difficult player to fit into a system, but his output both on and off the ball (imho) exceeds Pato.  I like Pato, having said that, He’s one of our better technicians, but has the heart of the Tin Man (not that Tinman) from the Wizard of Oz.  On song he has a lot to offer.

Looking forward to seeing Supersonic Sammie Szmodics, can he bring the guile and workrate we’ve missed since Bobby left.

I'm trying but struggling to come up with a song for him replacing Supersonic with Sammie Szmodics in the Oasis classic...

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3 hours ago, RedDave said:

He’s definitely on Chelsea’s tour so we can rule this out for certain. Personally I’m glad. Had enough of players that stroll around. 

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I don’t agree with this. It makes sense that FL wants to run the rule over his squad before deciding who stays. It make sense that the fringe players like KP want to get seen. However, some will probably not make the grade and will be sold or loaned out. It seems likely KP will be one of those.

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

Don’t understand how you think it exceeds Pato. Palmer against Wolves especially had me raging. Pato has never done that 

Because I’ve watched Pato at length.  Very skilful, one of the few players I’ve seen strike a ball as well with either foot.  But off the ball (these are failings, and of course he doesn’t do it all the time, I'm not that black and white):

  • never runs beyond the last line to create options for a flick on or as the third-man / runner.  Too much on the periphery.
  • when playing left side, cannot resist coming inside, crowding the space.  When we lose the ball, there is no sprint to get back into off the ball shape.  It’s either a canter, or he points to someone else to do it, often someone like Fam or Taylor, and he then stays inside.  Both willingly do it!!  I’d be telling him to get his arse in gear and do the hard yards.
  • bottles tackles, either by not committing to the press, so he doesn’t have to make a tackle, or when he does, dangles a leg. As an opponent I would never fear being caught by Pato, and therefore I can take an assured touch and pass around him, negating any team press.

The Pato that replaced Tomlin at the successful end of 16/17, and the Pato that gelled with Reid in a 460 in the middle third of 17/18 was a Pato who is playing with a fear of being replaced.  Last season, he upped his game before Xmas with the fear of the window coming up and us bringing in a replacement.  Of course, maybe Palmer didn’t take his chance, or LJ thought too big a risk to embed KP in the throes of a play-off campaign...hence the “give me a pre-season with me”.  Alas, not to be.

Palmer isn’t perfect either, so I’m not just digging at Pato.  Perhaps Szmodics is the answer.  Will be delighted if so.  £750k.  Let’s hope so.  But probably a squad game, and Pato being pushed by Sammie, Fam being pushed by Antoine and Andi, us what we need.  We are team whose players need to play at full-tilt.  When they dip, another comes in, until they dip, or the other player responds.

I’m starting to see a squad I like the look of.

Maybe Joe Williams or Massimo Luongo or someone if that type in midfield....allow Josh to play advanced occasionally or in the right sided attacking 3, might be another option.

I’m pretty positive.  Good recruitment so far.  Palmer, despite my liking of him, wasn’t key.  Kalas and Dasilva were....we got them for £9m, off the back of Lloyd going for £15m.

good debate though RD.

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A player on loan here, had a few good moments, but never really grasped the nettle and took his chance. Never forced his way as a regular in the starting line up last season, not surprised it seems a 'dead in the water one'. 

Still expecting activity this coming week, more comings and going I am sure.

Good luck to KP, again an interesting watch to see what happens with him and where he ends up and what, if any impact he will make on the game

 

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3 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

A player on loan here, had a few good moments, but never really grasped the nettle and took his chance. Never forced his way as a regular in the starting line up last season, not surprised it seems a 'dead in the water one'. 

Still expecting activity this coming week, more comings and going I am sure.

Good luck to KP, again an interesting watch to see what happens with him and where he ends up and what, if any impact he will make on the game

 

Think that’s fair.

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I don't necessarily think this one is over. He's obviously been offered a chance to show what he can do at Chelsea and I can see why he wants to take it but my guess is we and he will see where things stand when we get back from America. I'm sure that won't stop us chasing alternatives and we might get one but I think there's still a reasonable chance he will be at Ashton Gate by the end of the summer.

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3 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

I think the `no new striker` allusion is probably smoke and mirrors though - I certainly hope so anyway!

My guess is it is somewhere between smoke and mirrors and pragmatism in terms of preparing the ground if nothing comes off. I'm sure we want a new striker but I think both LJ and MA will be determined that we don't pay over the odds for the wrong player if we can't get someone we want. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I wasn’t there yesterday, but talk of a 4231 - narrow(er) 3 - I can see the logic in that, if we don’t attack one dimensionally, i.e. through the middle.  If it’s about getting Eliasson, Szmodics etc into advanced positions down the sides of the penalty area, like Norwich, Man City, etc, rather than wider (statistically goals don’t come from very wide crosses).  But that won’t happen unless the full-backs provide options too.

 

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Quite. Sterling and Sane tend to play in an area not much more than the width of the penalty box. The aim is to get them in behind the defence and create one on ones. Not a lot of hitting hopeful high balls into the box!

More left and right forwards perhaps? Thankfully the two FB options we have in Jay and Jack are both attacking minded and will offer that width. 

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2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Spot on. And if anything he was usually trying to drive us on to a point or 3 coming on late to salvage something from a losing position. He gave the ball away a lot but thought that was with an effort to drive the team. He does need to learn when to drive and when to make a simpler play and that is what LJ alluded to with the preseason comments imo. He was never lazy.

And with all this talk of 20 goal strikers. I am not so sure it is needed. We need goals from others. All likelihood Fam gets 15 without the farcical suspension which is not bad for someone who’s main purpose is to be a focal point for others. Also missed the most chances in the league. I get that is a negative but there is some positivity in there. Players get cooler in goal scoring situations all the time. Bobby Reid an example here. Raheem Sterling another. Fam is not far from a 20 goal scorer. Hell a full season he probably should have netted 25 as I read he missed 20 clear chances. So I am for slamming him for missing 20 chances but he is there and that can be worked on to some extent. 

Back to my point though. We do lack a few more goals from our striker but does anyone else think we need a talisman? You know someone you can get the ball to and they create a chance from nothing? Grealish, Hernandez, Buendia, Mount, Wilson and Bowen. These are driving forces and I think they carry their teams at times. Do we have that player? For me, imo, only Eliasson could be that. That is where I think the value of a Palmer lies. When we can’t break a team down and need a goal we have someone we can keep getting the ball to to beat his man and get a great cross in, or slot a through ball in or hit a shot from 20 yards into the corner. Imo we need that more than a goal scorer. Get that 10 goals and 10 assist from someone outside your main striker and it transforms your side

Also then your 20 goal scorer becomes the icing on the cake. Tammy, Pukki and Roofe there to finish off what the creators started. Whereas Bowen carried Hull to mid table whereas with a 20 goal scorer they are probably a playoff side. 

Agreed- icing on the cake to finish off- would argue that it was their front 3 who carried them to midtable- Grosicki and Campbell were more than decent too. Plus Adkins of course.

For a mid-table side though, that's a really good front 3- but said front 3 can only do so much. Some other tidy players in varied positions but that front 3-excellent. Doesn't necessarily fit the plan but Campbell is now available on a free- 12 goals, 6 assists, good technically- he'd be 32 in mid September though so that's a hefty downside,

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Because I’ve watched Pato at length.  Very skilful, one of the few players I’ve seen strike a ball as well with either foot.  But off the ball (these are failings, and of course he doesn’t do it all the time, I'm not that black and white):

  • never runs beyond the last line to create options for a flick on or as the third-man / runner.  Too much on the periphery.
  • when playing left side, cannot resist coming inside, crowding the space.  When we lose the ball, there is no sprint to get back into off the ball shape.  It’s either a canter, or he points to someone else to do it, often someone like Fam or Taylor, and he then stays inside.  Both willingly do it!!  I’d be telling him to get his arse in gear and do the hard yards.
  • bottles tackles, either by not committing to the press, so he doesn’t have to make a tackle, or when he does, dangles a leg. As an opponent I would never fear being caught by Pato, and therefore I can take an assured touch and pass around him, negating any team press.

The Pato that replaced Tomlin at the successful end of 16/17, and the Pato that gelled with Reid in a 460 in the middle third of 17/18 was a Pato who is playing with a fear of being replaced.  Last season, he upped his game before Xmas with the fear of the window coming up and us bringing in a replacement.  Of course, maybe Palmer didn’t take his chance, or LJ thought too big a risk to embed KP in the throes of a play-off campaign...hence the “give me a pre-season with me”.  Alas, not to be.

Palmer isn’t perfect either, so I’m not just digging at Pato.  Perhaps Szmodics is the answer.  Will be delighted if so.  £750k.  Let’s hope so.  But probably a squad game, and Pato being pushed by Sammie, Fam being pushed by Antoine and Andi, us what we need.  We are team whose players need to play at full-tilt.  When they dip, another comes in, until they dip, or the other player responds.

I’m starting to see a squad I like the look of.

Maybe Joe Williams or Massimo Luongo or someone if that type in midfield....allow Josh to play advanced occasionally or in the right sided attacking 3, might be another option.

I’m pretty positive.  Good recruitment so far.  Palmer, despite my liking of him, wasn’t key.  Kalas and Dasilva were....we got them for £9m, off the back of Lloyd going for £15m.

good debate though RD.

Watching Sammie at Hallan yesterday, you could see that he's got to be playing in that Pato/Palmer role.

Bearing in mind the opposition, I have to say I was hugely impressed. He bought drive, energy, pace and power; and for me bought a little bit of the Bobby Reid back to the team.

Watching him, I thought; well that's the end of the Palmer interest. Pato played in the third game, and by comparison @Davefevs you are spot on with your analysis. I can't see him starting against Leeds.

I still think we will get another forward or two though. Any offer for Taylor and he will also go.Will also be interesting about Rowe at LB as he doesn't look a natural there.

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1 hour ago, Leveller said:

 

I don’t agree with this. It makes sense that FL wants to run the rule over his squad before deciding who stays. It make sense that the fringe players like KP want to get seen. However, some will probably not make the grade and will be sold or loaned out. It seems likely KP will be one of those.

Johnson says he would want him for a full pre season. I’m assuming that’s still the case and as he can’t have him for that period that it will not happen.

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Somehow in games he bounces off players and looks like hes untouchable and then in the same game gets brushed aside like a paper bag.

See his qualities but would rather spend that money on a proper forward to play alongside Fam or challenge him.

Swear every year we have the same conversation and they dont pull the trigger on the striker that we need to get over the line. The team is the same as last year with a bit more depth. 

Taylor and Weimann are no way consistent enough in front of goal to lead our line and I dont think Palmer brings anything that can see us get into the top six.

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17 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Johnson says he would want him for a full pre season. I’m assuming that’s still the case and as he can’t have him for that period that it will not happen.

But that was just to get him fully fit. I doubt that would be an overriding factor if he was fully fit and available in s few weeks time.

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4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

But that was just to get him fully fit. I doubt that would be an overriding factor if he was fully fit and available in s few weeks time.

I think it was a bit more than just getting him physically fit.

He needs to get to grips with the way LJ wants him to play in the team and every day in pre-season is vital to that imo.

For me, if he aint on that plane, he aint coming here.

 

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6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I think it was a bit more than just getting him physically fit.

He needs to get to grips with the way LJ wants him to play in the team and every day in pre-season is vital to that imo.

For me, if he aint on that plane, he aint coming here.

 

There’s no doubt that if you don’t buy into the LJ ethos or manner of playing you’re not going to get much game time. It’s not so much strict formations but a clear understanding of where you need to be or get to when we concede possession. 

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I still don’t see why so many on here have the opinion that Palmer just strolled around.  For me he ran around with more intensity and put in more tackles than Paterson (who all of a sudden people seem to see as a workhorse).  Desire to get in the box, rather than hang around on the periphery.

I saw no aura akin to JET and Tomlin. I saw a player looking to conclude a good loan spell here, but not given enough minutes.

Yes, he lost balls in poor positions (Wolves - where none of our midfield got on the ball), but what has that got to to with effort?  Lack of options on the pass can contribute too.

I think people of blinkered by his bit of showboating and tarring him with the typical view that showboat = lazy.

By all means, don’t rate the fella, that’s fine, but I don’t get the character assassination for a guy who seems completely balanced, both on and off the pitch.

Thanks Davefevs, especially the "workhorse" comment. 

IMO, he's the nearest we've had at City, to Keith Fear, who was an expert at making a good pass look awful by his positioning behind defenders instead of in front of them.

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5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks Davefevs, especially the "workhorse" comment. 

IMO, he's the nearest we've had at City, to Keith Fear, who was an expert at making a good pass look awful by his positioning behind defenders instead of in front of them.

I'm not sure what you mean by that but just to say that Fear was miles in front of his peers at City in term of technical ability and speed of thought. Like Jantzen Derrick, he was probably at the wrong club and before his time.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Because I’ve watched Pato at length.  Very skilful, one of the few players I’ve seen strike a ball as well with either foot.  But off the ball (these are failings, and of course he doesn’t do it all the time, I'm not that black and white):

  • never runs beyond the last line to create options for a flick on or as the third-man / runner.  Too much on the periphery.
  • when playing left side, cannot resist coming inside, crowding the space.  When we lose the ball, there is no sprint to get back into off the ball shape.  It’s either a canter, or he points to someone else to do it, often someone like Fam or Taylor, and he then stays inside.  Both willingly do it!!  I’d be telling him to get his arse in gear and do the hard yards.
  • bottles tackles, either by not committing to the press, so he doesn’t have to make a tackle, or when he does, dangles a leg. As an opponent I would never fear being caught by Pato, and therefore I can take an assured touch and pass around him, negating any team press.

The Pato that replaced Tomlin at the successful end of 16/17, and the Pato that gelled with Reid in a 460 in the middle third of 17/18 was a Pato who is playing with a fear of being replaced.  Last season, he upped his game before Xmas with the fear of the window coming up and us bringing in a replacement.  Of course, maybe Palmer didn’t take his chance, or LJ thought too big a risk to embed KP in the throes of a play-off campaign...hence the “give me a pre-season with me”.  Alas, not to be.

Palmer isn’t perfect either, so I’m not just digging at Pato.  Perhaps Szmodics is the answer.  Will be delighted if so.  £750k.  Let’s hope so.  But probably a squad game, and Pato being pushed by Sammie, Fam being pushed by Antoine and Andi, us what we need.  We are team whose players need to play at full-tilt.  When they dip, another comes in, until they dip, or the other player responds.

I’m starting to see a squad I like the look of.

Maybe Joe Williams or Massimo Luongo or someone if that type in midfield....allow Josh to play advanced occasionally or in the right sided attacking 3, might be another option.

I’m pretty positive.  Good recruitment so far.  Palmer, despite my liking of him, wasn’t key.  Kalas and Dasilva were....we got them for £9m, off the back of Lloyd going for £15m.

good debate though RD.

Perfect description of Pato. Talented, frustrating, inconsistent. A player who will only get us out of this league in a downward direction.

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10 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that but just to say that Fear was miles in front of his peers at City in term of technical ability and speed of thought. Like Jantzen Derrick, he was probably at the wrong club and before his time.

I meant exactly what I said. He was an enigma of a player. Talented, frustrating and inconsistent. So, same as my preceding post about Pato. 

PS. Reference Jantzen, he was similar but fortunately for him, from a different era when wingers just hugged the touch line waiting for the ball. Thus he rarely got involved in ball winning or other distasteful parts of the game.

A team can only cope with one such player if the other nine outfield players work at 110% to compensate.

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4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I meant exactly what I said. He was an enigma of a player. Talented, frustrating and inconsistent. So, same as my preceding post about Pato. 

Fair enough.

But the guy was far in excess of 90% of City players at that time in terms of technical ability.

He was before his time and be worth millions today with professional coaching which was sadly lacking then imo.

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