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SIGNED: Kasey Palmer ( 4 years, Undisclosed fee)


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2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Spot on. And if anything he was usually trying to drive us on to a point or 3 coming on late to salvage something from a losing position. He gave the ball away a lot but thought that was with an effort to drive the team. He does need to learn when to drive and when to make a simpler play and that is what LJ alluded to with the preseason comments imo. He was never lazy.

And with all this talk of 20 goal strikers. I am not so sure it is needed. We need goals from others. All likelihood Fam gets 15 without the farcical suspension which is not bad for someone who’s main purpose is to be a focal point for others. Also missed the most chances in the league. I get that is a negative but there is some positivity in there. Players get cooler in goal scoring situations all the time. Bobby Reid an example here. Raheem Sterling another. Fam is not far from a 20 goal scorer. Hell a full season he probably should have netted 25 as I read he missed 20 clear chances. So I am for slamming him for missing 20 chances but he is there and that can be worked on to some extent. 

Back to my point though. We do lack a few more goals from our striker but does anyone else think we need a talisman? You know someone you can get the ball to and they create a chance from nothing? Grealish, Hernandez, Buendia, Mount, Wilson and Bowen. These are driving forces and I think they carry their teams at times. Do we have that player? For me, imo, only Eliasson could be that. That is where I think the value of a Palmer lies. When we can’t break a team down and need a goal we have someone we can keep getting the ball to to beat his man and get a great cross in, or slot a through ball in or hit a shot from 20 yards into the corner. Imo we need that more than a goal scorer. Get that 10 goals and 10 assist from someone outside your main striker and it transforms your side

Also then your 20 goal scorer becomes the icing on the cake. Tammy, Pukki and Roofe there to finish off what the creators started. Whereas Bowen carried Hull to mid table whereas with a 20 goal scorer they are probably a playoff side. 

Agreed- icing on the cake to finish off- would argue that it was their front 3 who carried them to midtable- Grosicki and Campbell were more than decent too. Plus Adkins of course.

For a mid-table side though, that's a really good front 3- but said front 3 can only do so much. Some other tidy players in varied positions but that front 3-excellent. Doesn't necessarily fit the plan but Campbell is now available on a free- 12 goals, 6 assists, good technically- he'd be 32 in mid September though so that's a hefty downside,

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Because I’ve watched Pato at length.  Very skilful, one of the few players I’ve seen strike a ball as well with either foot.  But off the ball (these are failings, and of course he doesn’t do it all the time, I'm not that black and white):

  • never runs beyond the last line to create options for a flick on or as the third-man / runner.  Too much on the periphery.
  • when playing left side, cannot resist coming inside, crowding the space.  When we lose the ball, there is no sprint to get back into off the ball shape.  It’s either a canter, or he points to someone else to do it, often someone like Fam or Taylor, and he then stays inside.  Both willingly do it!!  I’d be telling him to get his arse in gear and do the hard yards.
  • bottles tackles, either by not committing to the press, so he doesn’t have to make a tackle, or when he does, dangles a leg. As an opponent I would never fear being caught by Pato, and therefore I can take an assured touch and pass around him, negating any team press.

The Pato that replaced Tomlin at the successful end of 16/17, and the Pato that gelled with Reid in a 460 in the middle third of 17/18 was a Pato who is playing with a fear of being replaced.  Last season, he upped his game before Xmas with the fear of the window coming up and us bringing in a replacement.  Of course, maybe Palmer didn’t take his chance, or LJ thought too big a risk to embed KP in the throes of a play-off campaign...hence the “give me a pre-season with me”.  Alas, not to be.

Palmer isn’t perfect either, so I’m not just digging at Pato.  Perhaps Szmodics is the answer.  Will be delighted if so.  £750k.  Let’s hope so.  But probably a squad game, and Pato being pushed by Sammie, Fam being pushed by Antoine and Andi, us what we need.  We are team whose players need to play at full-tilt.  When they dip, another comes in, until they dip, or the other player responds.

I’m starting to see a squad I like the look of.

Maybe Joe Williams or Massimo Luongo or someone if that type in midfield....allow Josh to play advanced occasionally or in the right sided attacking 3, might be another option.

I’m pretty positive.  Good recruitment so far.  Palmer, despite my liking of him, wasn’t key.  Kalas and Dasilva were....we got them for £9m, off the back of Lloyd going for £15m.

good debate though RD.

Watching Sammie at Hallan yesterday, you could see that he's got to be playing in that Pato/Palmer role.

Bearing in mind the opposition, I have to say I was hugely impressed. He bought drive, energy, pace and power; and for me bought a little bit of the Bobby Reid back to the team.

Watching him, I thought; well that's the end of the Palmer interest. Pato played in the third game, and by comparison @Davefevs you are spot on with your analysis. I can't see him starting against Leeds.

I still think we will get another forward or two though. Any offer for Taylor and he will also go.Will also be interesting about Rowe at LB as he doesn't look a natural there.

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1 hour ago, Leveller said:

 

I don’t agree with this. It makes sense that FL wants to run the rule over his squad before deciding who stays. It make sense that the fringe players like KP want to get seen. However, some will probably not make the grade and will be sold or loaned out. It seems likely KP will be one of those.

Johnson says he would want him for a full pre season. I’m assuming that’s still the case and as he can’t have him for that period that it will not happen.

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Somehow in games he bounces off players and looks like hes untouchable and then in the same game gets brushed aside like a paper bag.

See his qualities but would rather spend that money on a proper forward to play alongside Fam or challenge him.

Swear every year we have the same conversation and they dont pull the trigger on the striker that we need to get over the line. The team is the same as last year with a bit more depth. 

Taylor and Weimann are no way consistent enough in front of goal to lead our line and I dont think Palmer brings anything that can see us get into the top six.

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17 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Johnson says he would want him for a full pre season. I’m assuming that’s still the case and as he can’t have him for that period that it will not happen.

But that was just to get him fully fit. I doubt that would be an overriding factor if he was fully fit and available in s few weeks time.

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4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

But that was just to get him fully fit. I doubt that would be an overriding factor if he was fully fit and available in s few weeks time.

I think it was a bit more than just getting him physically fit.

He needs to get to grips with the way LJ wants him to play in the team and every day in pre-season is vital to that imo.

For me, if he aint on that plane, he aint coming here.

 

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6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I think it was a bit more than just getting him physically fit.

He needs to get to grips with the way LJ wants him to play in the team and every day in pre-season is vital to that imo.

For me, if he aint on that plane, he aint coming here.

 

There’s no doubt that if you don’t buy into the LJ ethos or manner of playing you’re not going to get much game time. It’s not so much strict formations but a clear understanding of where you need to be or get to when we concede possession. 

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I still don’t see why so many on here have the opinion that Palmer just strolled around.  For me he ran around with more intensity and put in more tackles than Paterson (who all of a sudden people seem to see as a workhorse).  Desire to get in the box, rather than hang around on the periphery.

I saw no aura akin to JET and Tomlin. I saw a player looking to conclude a good loan spell here, but not given enough minutes.

Yes, he lost balls in poor positions (Wolves - where none of our midfield got on the ball), but what has that got to to with effort?  Lack of options on the pass can contribute too.

I think people of blinkered by his bit of showboating and tarring him with the typical view that showboat = lazy.

By all means, don’t rate the fella, that’s fine, but I don’t get the character assassination for a guy who seems completely balanced, both on and off the pitch.

Thanks Davefevs, especially the "workhorse" comment. 

IMO, he's the nearest we've had at City, to Keith Fear, who was an expert at making a good pass look awful by his positioning behind defenders instead of in front of them.

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5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks Davefevs, especially the "workhorse" comment. 

IMO, he's the nearest we've had at City, to Keith Fear, who was an expert at making a good pass look awful by his positioning behind defenders instead of in front of them.

I'm not sure what you mean by that but just to say that Fear was miles in front of his peers at City in term of technical ability and speed of thought. Like Jantzen Derrick, he was probably at the wrong club and before his time.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Because I’ve watched Pato at length.  Very skilful, one of the few players I’ve seen strike a ball as well with either foot.  But off the ball (these are failings, and of course he doesn’t do it all the time, I'm not that black and white):

  • never runs beyond the last line to create options for a flick on or as the third-man / runner.  Too much on the periphery.
  • when playing left side, cannot resist coming inside, crowding the space.  When we lose the ball, there is no sprint to get back into off the ball shape.  It’s either a canter, or he points to someone else to do it, often someone like Fam or Taylor, and he then stays inside.  Both willingly do it!!  I’d be telling him to get his arse in gear and do the hard yards.
  • bottles tackles, either by not committing to the press, so he doesn’t have to make a tackle, or when he does, dangles a leg. As an opponent I would never fear being caught by Pato, and therefore I can take an assured touch and pass around him, negating any team press.

The Pato that replaced Tomlin at the successful end of 16/17, and the Pato that gelled with Reid in a 460 in the middle third of 17/18 was a Pato who is playing with a fear of being replaced.  Last season, he upped his game before Xmas with the fear of the window coming up and us bringing in a replacement.  Of course, maybe Palmer didn’t take his chance, or LJ thought too big a risk to embed KP in the throes of a play-off campaign...hence the “give me a pre-season with me”.  Alas, not to be.

Palmer isn’t perfect either, so I’m not just digging at Pato.  Perhaps Szmodics is the answer.  Will be delighted if so.  £750k.  Let’s hope so.  But probably a squad game, and Pato being pushed by Sammie, Fam being pushed by Antoine and Andi, us what we need.  We are team whose players need to play at full-tilt.  When they dip, another comes in, until they dip, or the other player responds.

I’m starting to see a squad I like the look of.

Maybe Joe Williams or Massimo Luongo or someone if that type in midfield....allow Josh to play advanced occasionally or in the right sided attacking 3, might be another option.

I’m pretty positive.  Good recruitment so far.  Palmer, despite my liking of him, wasn’t key.  Kalas and Dasilva were....we got them for £9m, off the back of Lloyd going for £15m.

good debate though RD.

Perfect description of Pato. Talented, frustrating, inconsistent. A player who will only get us out of this league in a downward direction.

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10 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that but just to say that Fear was miles in front of his peers at City in term of technical ability and speed of thought. Like Jantzen Derrick, he was probably at the wrong club and before his time.

I meant exactly what I said. He was an enigma of a player. Talented, frustrating and inconsistent. So, same as my preceding post about Pato. 

PS. Reference Jantzen, he was similar but fortunately for him, from a different era when wingers just hugged the touch line waiting for the ball. Thus he rarely got involved in ball winning or other distasteful parts of the game.

A team can only cope with one such player if the other nine outfield players work at 110% to compensate.

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4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I meant exactly what I said. He was an enigma of a player. Talented, frustrating and inconsistent. So, same as my preceding post about Pato. 

Fair enough.

But the guy was far in excess of 90% of City players at that time in terms of technical ability.

He was before his time and be worth millions today with professional coaching which was sadly lacking then imo.

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4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Fair enough.

But the guy was far in excess of 90% of City players at that time in terms of technical ability.

He was before his time and be worth millions today with professional coaching which was sadly lacking then imo.

Agree with your first sentence. Second one, I still think that the most talented have to work hard for the side to achieve trophies and promotions.

He was more talented than Tom Ritchie but who would most of us who watched them, place higher in value to the team?

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I wasn’t there yesterday, but talk of a 4231 - narrow(er) 3 - I can see the logic in that, if we don’t attack one dimensionally, i.e. through the middle.  If it’s about getting Eliasson, Szmodics etc into advanced positions down the sides of the penalty area, like Norwich, Man City, etc, rather than wider (statistically goals don’t come from very wide crosses).  But that won’t happen unless the full-backs provide options too.

As you know Dave, it was me that highlighted the 4-2-3-1 😉

Now - KP and how he fits into that. Yesterday, we played narrow. All about runners, movement etc to get ahead of the play and stretch the play - is that Kaseys game - nah.

But at the same time, is it Nics game? No, but he played and wasn’t that involved because he pulled left.

So, my question is in a 4-2-3-1, are you better off with one of your three who will break - but break wide, or one who will stay in a 3, might unlock things but won’t break.

Horses-Courses....

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Just now, cidered abroad said:

Agree with your first sentence. Second one, I still think that the most talented have to work hard for the side to achieve trophies and promotions.

He worked as hard as any player.

But I'll leave it there.

 

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16 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As you know Dave, it was me that highlighted the 4-2-3-1 😉

Now - KP and how he fits into that. Yesterday, we played narrow. All about runners, movement etc to get ahead of the play and stretch the play - is that Kaseys game - nah.

But at the same time, is it Nics game? No, but he played and wasn’t that involved because he pulled left.

So, my question is in a 4-2-3-1, are you better off with one of your three who will break - but break wide, or one who will stay in a 3, might unlock things but won’t break.

Horses-Courses....

Could our one up top, be the one to break wide?  And then one or more of the 3 “forward midfielders” be tasked with filling the hole?

Still remember Kodjia v Ipswich (2-1 Flint 2, Pitman) giving one of the best performances at running the channels in a 4231 (Tomlin, Freeman and Bryan as the 3 in front of Pack and Smith), dragging Berra and Tonmy Smith all over the pitch, but especially wide (and out of position)....allowing Tomlin and Freeman especially to get into the box.  Also I seem to recall Korey having 3 or 4 shots that day, as we were able to squeeze right up as Kodjia retained possession or earned throw-in in their final third.

Masterclass of unselfish forward movement - not bad for someone with an immature football brain.

Does LJ see Kieffer Moore as his channel runner?  Not sure I see Diedhiou doing it...Weimann maybe.

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44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Could our one up top, be the one to break wide?  And then one or more of the 3 “forward midfielders” be tasked with filling the hole?

Still remember Kodjia v Ipswich (2-1 Flint 2, Pitman) giving one of the best performances at running the channels in a 4231 (Tomlin, Freeman and Bryan as the 3 in front of Pack and Smith), dragging Berra and Tonmy Smith all over the pitch, but especially wide (and out of position)....allowing Tomlin and Freeman especially to get into the box.  Also I seem to recall Korey having 3 or 4 shots that day, as we were able to squeeze right up as Kodjia retained possession or earned throw-in in their final third.

Masterclass of unselfish forward movement - not bad for someone with an immature football brain.

Does LJ see Kieffer Moore as his channel runner?  Not sure I see Diedhiou doing it...Weimann maybe.

I think all I hear about Moore is a very willing runner - so short answer is yes. Interestingly in game 3 Matty Taylor played the “big man” role which plays to your theory...

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1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think all I hear about Moore is a very willing runner - so short answer is yes. Interestingly in game 3 Matty Taylor played the “big man” role which plays to your theory...

Watkins in Game 1....no more willing than him!

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22 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Very shadow squad.

Am sure super Frank these were fringe players he wanted to look at before making a decision about their futures 

Agree with above we've moved on from him now 

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