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ChippenhamRed

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Hi all, taking a summer break from the forum but popping back in to share this.

My son (age 8 ) plays in goal for a local team and today they played a tournament. They used proper FA qualified referees.

Midway through the game, the keeper (my son) hurts his leg in a collision in the penalty area, as the ball goes out for a corner. He goes down injured. The ref either fails to notice the injury or chooses to ignore it, and allows the opposition to take the corner with the goal unattended. I scream from the sidelines that he is injured and he needs to stop the game - to which he shouts back: “I ONLY STOP THE GAME FOR HEAD INJURIES, THAT’S THE RULES OF THE GAME!”

So, my questions

- Is he right, technically?

- Was I justified in wanting to lamp him?!

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If it was a broken leg, would the player then be penalised for just lying on the ground?

If a defender suffers a serious leg injury near his own goal line and just lay there, would he be ignored, or is he now making all opposition forwards on side?

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2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I thought it was that refs only have to stop the game for head injuries.

However if a player is down hurt and there is a break in play (like a corner being awarded) then that is the ideal time to get treatment as play has already naturally stopped.

Yes or a horrendous obvious injury.  He is right to stop the game and we have been frustrated so many times by this over last few seasons especially playing PNE.

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I thought it was that refs only have to stop the game for head injuries.

However if a player is down hurt and there is a break in play (like a corner being awarded) then that is the ideal time to get treatment as play has already naturally stopped.

But what if the player down is the goalkeeper? Can he still allow play to continue?

Slightly different point - is he actually allowed to allow a set piece to begin with a keeper still down?

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8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Hi all, taking a summer break from the forum but popping back in to share this.

My son (age 8 ) plays in goal for a local team and today they played a tournament. They used proper FA qualified referees.

Midway through the game, the keeper (my son) hurts his leg in a collision in the penalty area, as the ball goes out for a corner. He goes down injured. The ref either fails to notice the injury or chooses to ignore it, and allows the opposition to take the corner with the goal unattended. I scream from the sidelines that he is injured and he needs to stop the game - to which he shouts back: “I ONLY STOP THE GAME FOR HEAD INJURIES, THAT’S THE RULES OF THE GAME!”

So, my questions

- Is he right, technically?

- Was I justified in wanting to lamp him?!

I would suggest technically he is probably right but being as it’s an U9’s game, common sense should surely prevail that the keeper be allowed treatment.

But as with most referees & people in a position of authority (for the larger part), common sense is rarely used!!

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1 minute ago, Tipps69 said:

I would suggest technically he is probably right but being as it’s an U9’s game, common sense should surely prevail that the keeper be allowed treatment.

But as with most referees & people in a position of authority (for the larger part), common sense is rarely used!!

Ain’t that the truth. At U8 level kids go down all the time and play always stops, head injury or not. They’re just kids at the end of the day!

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1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

But what if the player down is the goalkeeper? Can he still allow play to continue?

Slightly different point - is he actually allowed to allow a set piece to begin with a keeper still down?

I don't know if there's any specifics to do with goalkeepers.

But if your son was down injured and it had been made clear, them (IMO) the ref was wrong to let the corner be taken. Whether the official rules/laws back this up is another matter.

Were I the ref and I had seen it I'd have let there be treatment before the corner.

4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Whether to stop play is at the ref's discretion. There is no hard and fast rule that he can only do so for head injuries.

That is correct, but head injuries are the only ones where he has to, or so I believe.

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1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

But what about restarting play from a set piece such as a corner?

Any sensible ref would have allowed the player to have treatment first. Refusing to do so doesn't breach any rules as such but claiming that he was not allowed to stop play was nonsense.

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1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Ain’t that the truth. At U8 level kids go down all the time and play always stops, head injury or not. They’re just kids at the end of the day!

The trouble is, refs tend to play to the book & if it isn’t in the book, then they are stuffed because they don’t know what to do next! Like I said, a severe lack of common sense.

That’s why it’s so refreshing to see one that uses his common sense & a lot of people praise them because it’s unusual to see.

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3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I don't know if there's any specifics to do with goalkeepers.

But if your son was down injured and it had been made clear, them (IMO) the ref was wrong to let the corner be taken. Whether the official rules/laws back this up is another matter.

Were I the ref and I had seen it I'd have let there be treatment before the corner.

That is correct, but head injuries are the only ones where he has to, or so I believe.

I look at it this way - imagine Maenpaa gets clattered making a save. He goes down on the edge of the penalty area. The referee allows the opposition to take the corner with Maenpaa still down and they head the ball into an empty net to score.

We’d be raging surely?!?!

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3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I don't know if there's any specifics to do with goalkeepers.

But if your son was down injured and it had been made clear, them (IMO) the ref was wrong to let the corner be taken. Whether the official rules/laws back this up is another matter.

Were I the ref and I had seen it I'd have let there be treatment before the corner.

That is correct, but head injuries are the only ones where he has to, or so I believe.

Yes, but this ref was claiming the rules didn't allow him to stop play, which is nonsense.

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1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I’m not sure he was. I think he was saying he only had to stop the game for a head injury, which is a slightly different statement.

In which case it was a ridiculous use of his discretion and not one a professional referee would make. Not even Mike Dean!

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Referee is wrong because the ball went dead.

If the ball was still in play, sure thing he's right but the ball left the active field of play and so play should be stopped until the player has left the field or regained his position.

...

And if he does only stop the game for head injuries, don't hit him in the face, break his ankle and tell him play has to continue because it's not a head injury.

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30 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Hi all, taking a summer break from the forum but popping back in to share this.

My son (age 8 ) plays in goal for a local team and today they played a tournament. They used proper FA qualified referees.

Midway through the game, the keeper (my son) hurts his leg in a collision in the penalty area, as the ball goes out for a corner. He goes down injured. The ref either fails to notice the injury or chooses to ignore it, and allows the opposition to take the corner with the goal unattended. I scream from the sidelines that he is injured and he needs to stop the game - to which he shouts back: “I ONLY STOP THE GAME FOR HEAD INJURIES, THAT’S THE RULES OF THE GAME!”

So, my questions

- Is he right, technically?

- Was I justified in wanting to lamp him?!

Was it an U8s ‘festival’ ie non competitive?

 

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My son plays under 8’s and the technical decision is correct to carry on if the ref didn’t see any foul, you’d of thought he would of stopped the game for a minute just to check he was ok and then carry on. He’s 8 and common sense and a bit of logic would of been the right way to go. 

 

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18 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I look at it this way - imagine Maenpaa gets clattered making a save. He goes down on the edge of the penalty area. The referee allows the opposition to take the corner with Maenpaa still down and they head the ball into an empty net to score.

We’d be raging surely?!?!

Absolutely.

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The ref has made a clanger here.

I took my ref exam about 15 years ago and although they made sure we knew the obvious rules and the niche nit picky ones inside out, it was always about common sense too.

The ref’s job is to facilitate the game in the best way possible. He doesn’t have to stop because of a non-head injury, as others have said.

But especially with the ball already out of play and no advantage gained by your son’s team, the referee has given the other team an advantage by allowing the restart with a clearly injured player on the pitch - which is much worse when it’s your goalkeeper!

A bit of common sense would have avoided any bad feeling, got your son back on his feet and allowed the game to continue.

The referee is meant to be the one person who doesn’t get talked about. Causing that situation to develop like it did didn’t help him do that at all.

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34 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Was it an U8s ‘festival’ ie non competitive?

 

Yeah it’s a tournament weekend including all age groups from U7 up to U17 (or thereabouts).

At U8 level and below its only ever non-competitive - no semi finals or final, just a group of games and medals for all. It’s great, actually, everyone has a good time.

All the more reason why the referee should apply a bit of common sense and decency!

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1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Hi all, taking a summer break from the forum but popping back in to share this.

My son (age 8 ) plays in goal for a local team and today they played a tournament. They used proper FA qualified referees.

Midway through the game, the keeper (my son) hurts his leg in a collision in the penalty area, as the ball goes out for a corner. He goes down injured. The ref either fails to notice the injury or chooses to ignore it, and allows the opposition to take the corner with the goal unattended. I scream from the sidelines that he is injured and he needs to stop the game - to which he shouts back: “I ONLY STOP THE GAME FOR HEAD INJURIES, THAT’S THE RULES OF THE GAME!”

So, my questions

- Is he right, technically?

- Was I justified in wanting to lamp him?!

My son is 8 and I ref a lot of games. First of all that ref seems like a utter tosser. The kids are 8 !  

Secondly, the ball has gone out so play stops. He doesn’t decide to stop it for a corner as far as I’m concerned, it has stopped as a fact as the ball has gone out. 

The results don’t even get recorded at 8 so ref needs a talking too

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My thoughts always were that you can't keep stopping the game every time Johnny gets kicked, but you have to make a quick decision as to how bad the knock is. Experience tells you what is bad and what isn't if you are a referee with time served. 

However a goalkeeper down and not stopping is a bit unusual! Did they score?

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8 minutes ago, RedDave said:

My son is 8 and I ref a lot of games. First of all that ref seems like a utter tosser. The kids are 8 !  

Secondly, the ball has gone out so play stops. He doesn’t decide to stop it for a corner as far as I’m concerned, it has stopped as a fact as the ball has gone out. 

The results don’t even get recorded at 8 so ref needs a talking too

Agreed Dave. My feeling was it was a nonsense decision at any level, even more so u8s! He was a “proper” ref parachuted in for the day, seems he was completely out of touch with youth football and how it should be played.

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1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Agreed Dave. My feeling was it was a nonsense decision at any level, even more so u8s! He was a “proper” ref parachuted in for the day, seems he was completely out of touch with youth football and how it should be played.

That must be the reason. I know a few “proper” refs through friends and work. All of them have big egos and love control.

I reffed a few weeks ago and one of the 8 year olds started singing “the referee is rubbish” when I gave a penalty against his team. I didn’t want to but had to ask him to leave the pitch and be subbed.  Felt really bad when he started crying! 

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19 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Yeah it’s a tournament weekend including all age groups from U7 up to U17 (or thereabouts).

At U8 level and below its only ever non-competitive - no semi finals or final, just a group of games and medals for all. It’s great, actually, everyone has a good time.

All the more reason why the referee should apply a bit of common sense and decency!

That’s why I asked. I coach U8s and would fully expect welfare and safety to come before everything. Don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of ‘non competitive’ but once you’ve coached minis or junior sports up to say u11, you completely understand how no overall competition benefits everyone and allows you to focus on what’s important.

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9 minutes ago, 054123 said:

That’s why I asked. I coach U8s and would fully expect welfare and safety to come before everything. Don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of ‘non competitive’ but once you’ve coached minis or junior sports up to say u11, you completely understand how no overall competition benefits everyone and allows you to focus on what’s important.

My kid plays in the same ‘league’ as a team managed by Tom Jordan, Joe’s son. 

Obviously results don’t really matter as not recorded but he has them incredibly well drilled and the first thing he talks to them about when they win (they win every game) is what they could have done better. They’ve just won 6-0 and he starts with that.  

He vets kids who apply to join and only let’s in the best.  He has a clipboard and goes through individual stuff with players 

And I have no idea what I think about it!  The kids should be allowed to have fun but he is turning them into amazing players. No weak links in his teams! 

Quite sad how much he loves himself though. His team booed my sons team and he said nothing as well which wound me up 

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