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Judda

Underwhelming signings or well thought out?

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I know 2 x 30 year-old lads from lower leagues hasn't got everyone buzzing but could it be a clever bit of business....?

Adds experience to a very young squad. 

Utility player to cover several positions if required. Saves buying players as back up...

Coaching experience in goalkeeper. Planning to coach ladies too...

Probably not on silly wages?

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This 100%

We don’t have the funds to just sign first team players, we have to add depth as well.

 

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I’ll be surprised if Gilmartin ever plays a game for us. Certainly not in the league anyway. Rowe will be someone off the bench every now and then/back up to Dasilva. 2 decent signings overall, we need these types of players in the squad. 

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Every signing isn’t going to turn out to be great. That goes for players who cost tens of millions too. 

These 2 add well priced, reasonable quality depth, plus experience, to our young squad. 

I wouldn’t be happy if it were all we had signed, but along side others, it’s shrewd business at relatively low cost.  

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I'm glad Gillamartin is coaching the youth and not Maenpaa and Bentley! I can imagine it would have been a bit strange for them being told how to improve by someone who is 3rd choice.

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Right now, we've not done much to push us over the edge and really make me think we'll be pushing for a playoff spot. Rowe comes in to replace Kelly, Gilmartin to replace Marinovic, Szmodics to replace Palmer, Dasilva is back, Kalas is (likely) back and Bentley replaces Fielding. We're on-par with where we were. Now is when things need to step up... But that might be with some outgoings first.

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50 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

This 100%

We don’t have the funds to just sign first team players, we have to add depth as well.

 

Are you mad. If webster goes for 20mill thats around 100million ill say again ONE HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS in 3 years made. With very little spent on transfers in those three years. P. S we have something like the 20th richest man in the country behind us too

Edited by Redwhitepurple
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I'm not underwhelmed because there's a context to the signings. Even the clubs official page didn't bother to give them individual announcements.

We all know what's up with the signings. One's a squad player who could play some games, and one's a third (4th!) choice goalie and coach. If we were saying "WOW look at these guys" maybe you can be underwhelmed.

 

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As fans we can only call it as we see it.  If on paper it is uninspiring then we have a right to say as much, but in the knowledge that we could stand corrected. 

The Wilbraham argument always comes out, and whilst it is of course a cautionary tale about rash judgement, we also have to remember he was really an anomaly.

Two of our signings this summer don't fit the template set out by the current regime at City, so it's natural to be curious/concerned/baffled. 

I'm guessing that their potential as coaches is a key factor.

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It is interesting to read Donny fans comments about Rowe. A few negatives but a lot of positives about excellent left foot, good scorer from midfield and a threat in the final third. Don't seem to rate him as a left back though! 

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15 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Are you mad. If webster goes for 20mill thats around 100million ill say again ONE HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS in 3 years made. With very little spent on transfers in those three years. P. S we have something like the 20th richest man in the country behind us too

I think you misread JBFC II’s post.  I read it that we should not only be signing players for the first team, but adding depth as well.  Nothing about not having the money to improve the first team.

Edited by The Dolman Pragmatist
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15 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Are you mad. If webster goes for 20mill thats around 100million ill say again ONE HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS in 3 years made. With very little spent on transfers in those three years. P. S we have something like the 20th richest man in the country behind us too

No I’m not mad, just pointing out how I see these signings.

If you could break down where we’ve made 80 million from that would be great, as looking at our transfer business from the summer of 2016 I can’t see it.

With regards to spending, we are in a position with FFP where we have to be wary of how much we spend, we can’t go around splashing the cash without getting money in in the first place. 

The last comment about lansdown is totally pointless really as with FFP the wealth of your owner means nothing

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For the purposes of debate, i will say im not hugely impressed with this. We have a need for left back cover, but we could conceivably end up with gilmartin on in an emergency with oleary keeping goal for exeter or someone.

what we dont need is players taking a wage out of the club, we have lots doing that already. At least smodizs may be able to contribute something, even coming from league 2,,, we could have put that towards turnbull who is potentially a star.

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1 hour ago, Judda said:

I know 2 x 30 year-old lads from lower leagues hasn't got everyone buzzing but could it be a clever bit of business....?

Adds experience to a very young squad. 

Utility player to cover several positions if required. Saves buying players as back up...

Coaching experience in goalkeeper. Planning to coach ladies too...

Probably not on silly wages?

Tommy Rowe - Get it, good player, great left foot and leader on and off the pitch!

Rene - Back up 3rd choice keeper and GK coach and very unlikely to play many games in the first team unless injuries dictate

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55 minutes ago, TBW said:

Right now, we've not done much to push us over the edge and really make me think we'll be pushing for a playoff spot. Rowe comes in to replace Kelly, Gilmartin to replace Marinovic, Szmodics to replace Palmer, Dasilva is back, Kalas is (likely) back and Bentley replaces Fielding. We're on-par with where we were. Now is when things need to step up... But that might be with some outgoings first.

Agree. We NEED a striker badly. But should have a bit of cash to get one if available...

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I think the keeper situation has a lot of different angles to it. Obviously the coaching has been mentioned as well as him competing for a shirt. But imo, most importantly it allows Max to get a season long loan in league football, which is more important than getting a possibly better 3rd choice keeper. Rowe is an interesting one to me, reminds me of the Alex Russell signing. Who imo was a good signing & player in his time with us. Either way, I trust in what we are trying to do. COYR 

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10 minutes ago, simon uk said:

For the purposes of debate, i will say im not hugely impressed with this. We have a need for left back cover, but we could conceivably end up with gilmartin on in an emergency with oleary keeping goal for exeter or someone.

what we dont need is players taking a wage out of the club, we have lots doing that already. At least smodizs may be able to contribute something, even coming from league 2,,, we could have put that towards turnbull who is potentially a star.

If you made that point 6-7 years ago I agree, but I can't think of many high earners currently taking a wage and not performing. (Perhaps other than baker) 

Also, would you rather see O'leary stalling his progression on the bench? Ad that's what''d happen had we not signed another GK

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28 minutes ago, mozo said:

As fans we can only call it as we see it.  If on paper it is uninspiring then we have a right to say as much, but in the knowledge that we could stand corrected. 

The Wilbraham argument always comes out, and whilst it is of course a cautionary tale about rash judgement, we also have to remember he was really an anomaly.

Two of our signings this summer don't fit the template set out by the current regime at City, so it's natural to be curious/concerned/baffled. 

I'm guessing that their potential as coaches is a key factor.

The lack of experience in the squad too... you know a wise man once said "you'll win nothing with kids"

Seriously though. If we have a Johnson Wobble then some experienced heads in the dressing room can help...

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19 minutes ago, simon uk said:

For the purposes of debate, i will say im not hugely impressed with this. We have a need for left back cover, but we could conceivably end up with gilmartin on in an emergency with oleary keeping goal for exeter or someone.

what we dont need is players taking a wage out of the club, we have lots doing that already. At least smodizs may be able to contribute something, even coming from league 2,,, we could have put that towards turnbull who is potentially a star.

I think with Gillmartin it will be that the only time he ever likely plays is if one of our goalies is unavailable, so he makes the bench, and the other goalie is injured during the game and Gillmartin comes on.

If that happens and we are without our 2 main goalies then I see LJ getting a better goalie than Gillamartin in on a temporary basis, which is allowed like we did with Marinovic. They start and Gillmartin on bench. If that is the case then it could be seen as a waste of time and money. But i'd be amazed if Gillmartin is as bad as I have read, that we wouldn't bring in another who is better if we only had Gillmartin left to play.

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13 minutes ago, Just8 said:

If you made that point 6-7 years ago I agree, but I can't think of many high earners currently taking a wage and not performing. (Perhaps other than baker) 

Also, would you rather see O'leary stalling his progression on the bench? Ad that's what''d happen had we not signed another GK

In that case, we bring in gilmartin as number 3, and keep oleary and not sign one of maenpaa or bentley. Bringing a number 3 keeper in to loan out a very promising player of our own to send him to league 1, when hes just played 15 or so games in the championship seems to me to be a waste of a salary.

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6 minutes ago, simon uk said:

In that case, we bring in gilmartin as number 3, and keep oleary and not sign one of maenpaa or bentley. Bringing a number 3 keeper in to loan out a very promising player of our own to send him to league 1, when hes just played 15 or so games in the championship seems to me to be a waste of a salary.

Waste of a salary? Another club will be paying most/all of his wages whilst giving valuable first team experience to one of our promising players?

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Rowe reminds me of Wade Elliott. Style of play bit also seems like might add influence off the pitch.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I'm glad Gillamartin is coaching the youth and not Maenpaa and Bentley! I can imagine it would have been a bit strange for them being told how to improve by someone who is 3rd choice.

You don't have to be great at a sport to be able to coach it!

Wenger.

Taylor

Most professional golfers coaches.. 

A lot of boxers are trained by 'contenders'.

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1 hour ago, Judda said:

I know 2 x 30 year-old lads from lower leagues hasn't got everyone buzzing

Dunno how old you are, Judd, but this 47 year-old is the equivalent of whatever 'buzzing' is for nearly-50-year-olds. Adding a couple of experienced players - arguably this being a missing ingredient in the last two seasons of near misses - is a tonic. Signing lots of young "hungry" players is all very well and good, plus will no doubt earn us a few bob soon enough, but a couple of older, well fed "everyone-calm-down-ok-we've-lost-eight-in-a-row-but-we-could-now-win-eight-in-a-row-(and-let's-bloody-hope-we-do)" are as welcome as any young gun.

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

You don't have to be great at a sport to be able to coach it!

Wenger.

Taylor

Most professional golfers coaches.. 

A lot of boxers are trained by 'contenders'.

Agree completely. If anything the good players are often rubbish coaches. But would just be a bit different I guess being coached by a competing player, that's what I meant.

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27 minutes ago, simon uk said:

In that case, we bring in gilmartin as number 3, and keep oleary and not sign one of maenpaa or bentley. Bringing a number 3 keeper in to loan out a very promising player of our own to send him to league 1, when hes just played 15 or so games in the championship seems to me to be a waste of a salary.

The fact that Max has only played 15 games or so should be enough to think that he needs a 30-40 game season to learn and get some experience.

He aint going to get that here is he with Nikki and Bentley in front of him.

Nikki will have one more season with us in all probability and then Bentley takes over with Max no.2.

Whats not to like ?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Huntstile Red said:

Dunno how old you are, Judd, but this 47 year-old is the equivalent of whatever 'buzzing' is for nearly-50-year-olds. Adding a couple of experienced players - arguably this being a missing ingredient in the last two seasons of near misses - is a tonic. Signing lots of young "hungry" players is all very well and good, plus will no doubt earn us a few bob soon enough, but a couple of older, well fed "everyone-calm-down-ok-we've-lost-eight-in-a-row-but-we-could-now-win-eight-in-a-row-(and-let's-bloody-hope-we-do)" are as welcome as any young gun.

3 years younger than you! Definitely too old to use the term buzzing! 

😜

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14 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

The fact that Max has only played 15 games or so should be enough to think that he needs a 30-40 game season to learn and get some experience.

He aint going to get that here is he with Nikki and Bentley in front of him.

Nikki will have one more season with us in all probability and then Bentley takes over with Max no.2.

Whats not to like ?

 

 

Exactly my thoughts 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I'm glad Gillamartin is coaching the youth and not Maenpaa and Bentley! I can imagine it would have been a bit strange for them being told how to improve by someone who is 3rd choice.

Surely neither of those two will be 3rd choice?

Edit: just realised you may have meant you’re glad the ex Colchester custodian won’t be coaching our two keepers ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...

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Looking good to me.

As long as a replacement for Webster is already in motion and some of the profit is going out.

Semenyo will be like a ne signing. If we had let him go to Chelsea in January then surly they  would be loaning him to a Championship side or maybe a Dutch club?

Szmodics really appeals to me, a real ball playing attacking midfielder,type of player we have needed for years. He might not make it but he sure looks worth the punt

If we could have everything we want then the new striker destroyer in midfield and a top right back then we would look a complete squad at this level.

With plenty of time to go and Johnson seeming to know exactly what he wants coming in for us to progress, yeah.

Looking good to me.

 

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15 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Looking good to me.

As long as a replacement for Webster is already in motion and some of the profit is going out.

Semenyo will be like a ne signing. If we had let him go to Chelsea in January then surly they  would be loaning him to a Championship side or maybe a Dutch club?

Szmodics really appeals to me, a real ball playing attacking midfielder,type of player we have needed for years. He might not make it but he sure looks worth the punt

If we could have everything we want then the new striker destroyer in midfield and a top right back then we would look a complete squad at this level.

With plenty of time to go and Johnson seeming to know exactly what he wants coming in for us to progress, yeah.

Looking good to me.

 

Totally agree. And yes, it does feel like Hunt has at most one season as a starter before an upgrade is needed.

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For those that were calling for LJs head not so long ago please go and stand in the corner facing the wall?

We are still just over four weeks away from the start of the season and already LJ has secured the signature of both Dasilva and now Kalas. Add to that Szmodics, Rowe and Gilmartin and City are looking pretty good and with the likelihood of more incoming...........another two maybe?

Ive said along that I have complete faith in LJ based on his recruitment of last summer.

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Yes. Striker definitely... And midfield general would be great... right back a bonus but we have a couple that can cover there if Hunt is injured...

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

For those that were calling for LJs head not so long ago please go and stand in the corner facing the wall?

We are still just over four weeks away from the start of the season and already LJ has secured the signature of both Dasilva and now Kalas. Add to that Szmodics, Rowe and Gilmartin and City are looking pretty good and with the likelihood of more incoming...........another two maybe?

Ive said along that I have complete faith in LJ based on his recruitment of last summer.

Don't forget Bently ... or Cundy!

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

For those that were calling for LJs head not so long ago please go and stand in the corner facing the wall?

We are still just over four weeks away from the start of the season and already LJ has secured the signature of both Dasilva and now Kalas. Add to that Szmodics, Rowe and Gilmartin and City are looking pretty good and with the likelihood of more incoming...........another two maybe?

Ive said along that I have complete faith in LJ based on his recruitment of last summer.

oh whoppy doo  how long before we can turn around?

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I think with Gillmartin it will be that the only time he ever likely plays is if one of our goalies is unavailable, so he makes the bench, and the other goalie is injured during the game and Gillmartin comes on.

If that happens and we are without our 2 main goalies then I see LJ getting a better goalie than Gillamartin in on a temporary basis, which is allowed like we did with Marinovic. They start and Gillmartin on bench. If that is the case then it could be seen as a waste of time and money. But i'd be amazed if Gillmartin is as bad as I have read, that we wouldn't bring in another who is better if we only had Gillmartin left to play.

Can’t bring in an emergency goalie unless all of your professional (and played more than 5 games) keepers are injured, so Niki, Dan and Rene would all need to be injured to get an emergency loan in.  JoJo and Sesay wouldn’t count.  I think the risk of a 32 year old who’s been back up at Watford having to play and his cost is a good risk when weighed against Max hopefully getting 40-50 games out on loan.

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I think we’re further forward than we were at the end of the season.

Concentrate on the attack now. One more big push required for a mega striker and we should have all the ‘clubs in the bag’.

Be up to LJ and the coaching staff to use the equipment well. If they do, top 6, even top 2 not beyond us. 

Thank you Steve, Maggie and Jon. 

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4 hours ago, simon uk said:

In that case, we bring in gilmartin as number 3, and keep oleary and not sign one of maenpaa or bentley. Bringing a number 3 keeper in to loan out a very promising player of our own to send him to league 1, when hes just played 15 or so games in the championship seems to me to be a waste of a salary.

What a very odd view..!

MOL needs to be playing games, week in, to develop his game. Not sitting on a subs bench. 

Gilmartin’s signing is an investments in Max’s future, as much as anything else. 

It’s a very sensible signing. 

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6 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Certainly how I started off. Not many ever got in my coach, mind.

….that said, you've been talking care of BUSiness ever since, so I believe?

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17 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

What a very odd view..!

MOL needs to be playing games, week in, to develop his game. Not sitting on a subs bench. 

Gilmartin’s signing is an investments in Max’s future, as much as anything else. 

It’s a very sensible signing. 

Exactly my thoughts. Gives him a chance to go and get the game time he needs to potentially become the keeper we hope he could be...

Just need to find the right club for him now....

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23 hours ago, Judda said:

I know 2 x 30 year-old lads from lower leagues hasn't got everyone buzzing but could it be a clever bit of business....?

Adds experience to a very young squad. 

Utility player to cover several positions if required. Saves buying players as back up...

Coaching experience in goalkeeper. Planning to coach ladies too...

Probably not on silly wages?

Gilmartin as others have said, here as third choice back up plus goalkeeper coaching for Academy and City Women.

It turns out that Rowe played at Peterborough for Gary Johnson. So LJ will know the character aspect. It could also be that at 30, Rowe is already looking at coaching as a future career, in addition to being a useful cover in several positions.

The reasons for signing some players is not immediately obvious to most of us. Remember that league football is a very close type of employment.

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I’ll wait and see. 

Overall we have done extremely well with most of our signings over the past few years - with a couple of ‘duds’ too, but mostly good. 

We do still badly need a decent striker - but IMO Weimann could play that part if we played him centrally. 

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18 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

What a very odd view..!

MOL needs to be playing games, week in, to develop his game. Not sitting on a subs bench. 

Gilmartin’s signing is an investments in Max’s future, as much as anything else. 

It’s a very sensible signing. 

It’s amazing how many people fail to understand that with 40 more games under his belt O’Leary stands a far greater chance of being the Championship Keeper we want him to be in 12 months. We can’t guarantee him that because even if we hadn’t signed Bentley he simply isn’t as good as Niki at the moment. That’s not a criticism just fact.

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19 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s amazing how many people fail to understand that with 40 more games under his belt O’Leary stands a far greater chance of being the Championship Keeper we want him to be in 12 months. We can’t guarantee him that because even if we hadn’t signed Bentley he simply isn’t as good as Niki at the moment. That’s not a criticism just fact.

True. Currently a great shot stopper but flaps at crosses occasionally and kicking could improve a bit... a year from now could be great with 40 more games under his belt...

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23 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

Szmodics really appeals to me, a real ball playing attacking midfielder,type of player we have needed for years. He might not make it but he sure looks worth the punt

 

Glad I am not the only one most excited by Szmodics. I was starting to worry.

Kalas and Dasilva are fantastic but we know what they bring and frankly apart from each being a year older and wiser they aren't actually an improvement on last year's squad...because they were in last year's squad. Bentley is also great, but again I am not sure he is objectively better than Maenpaa, although he is probably an improvement on Fielding. Rowe and Gilmartin bring experience but again aren't necessarily taking the club forward.

For some reason I just feel that it's Szmodics that adds something that last year's team lacked. His style of play, from what I have seen in highlights videos, looks to be something different, something actually better than we had last season.

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2 hours ago, Judda said:

True. Currently a great shot stopper but flaps at crosses occasionally and kicking could improve a bit... a year from now could be great with 40 more games under his belt...

Statistically, of all Champ keepers who played 900 mins or more, his passing was one of the worst in the division.  An area to improve...but lots of keepers making their early appearances will be the same.  Has a future here, which is more than some imho, and testament to our academy and his work ethic.

Rotherham might go for him with Rodak returning to Fulham.

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