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Coming out as homosexual in the Championship


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1 hour ago, Pezo said:

All of these are mental barriers that have been created by the individual they are not barriers that have been created by anyone else. If the only barriers that stop people from accessing football are in the head of the individual then I'm not sure what can be done address the situation. 

Now if these fears were to manifest themselves then that says more about individuals treating people differently based on thier sexual preferences than it does about the individual. 

To lighten the mood a little - Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

I disagree. Fear based on reality.

All of those things could and probably would happen. I mean look at the abuse Greame LeSaux got just for reading the Guardian!

Edit: Also it's not in the mind of the individual, it's a whole demographic. 

Don't forget that being openly gay in an office used to be stigmatized. On a building site it arguably still is. Eventually in society, a time comes when people feel brave enough to risk it, then others follow. Hopefully that time is coming.

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

A friend's granddaughter, who was apparently very decent at football, left the local women's football team because of unwanted lesbian attention from older players.

It doesn't just cut one way every time.

No, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Edited by mozo
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1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

I love OTIB and how you can read the first page and see a sensible debate just knowing that soon it'll descend in to arguing. Then you go away and come back to page 7 and see just that. 

I think it's steering to interesting debate now!

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4 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I can understand someone getting mocked for reading the guardian.

 

As evidenced by the 'begging letter' accompanying every article by the end of next month there will be more openly gay footballers than Guardian subscribers...

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1 hour ago, Pezo said:

All of these are mental barriers that have been created by the individual they are not barriers that have been created by anyone else. If the only barriers that stop people from accessing football are in the head of the individual then I'm not sure what can be done address the situation. 

Now if these fears were to manifest themselves then that says more about individuals treating people differently based on thier sexual preferences than it does about the individual. 

To lighten the mood a little - Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

You might not be aware of this, but it's not uncommon for gay people to be attacked. I've had a few mates be attacked, some for being gay, some for going to a gay club. This isn't the kind of thing that happened years ago either. It was only around a year ago that LGBTQ people stopped going to The Hatchet after one of the DJ's cornered a transgender person in the toilets and tried to get them to show him their cock.

It wasn't that long ago that two gay women were attacked on a bus in London because they wouldn't kiss for some teen thugs.

I know that SJW's have caused a lot of damage to minority rights by bitching on Twitter/Tumblr about nonsense issues, but knowing how hard it can be for people in this situation the default response should always be empathy.

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30 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I can understand someone getting mocked for reading the guardian.

 

I think that kind of “banter” will always exist, there is a subconscious distrust of people who are seen as being or attempting to be seen as intelligent. Pat Nevin used to buy two copies of the NME, because he knew his teammates would destroy the one they found.

If you think back to your schooldays, were not the brightest kids often the target of the bullies?

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14 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I think that kind of “banter” will always exist, there is a subconscious distrust of people who are seen as being or attempting to be seen as intelligent. Pat Nevin used to buy two copies of the NME, because he knew his teammates would destroy the one they found.

If you think back to your schooldays, were not the brightest kids often the target of the bullies?

Yeah but then it gets to the point where fans are shouting homophobic abuse at you and even Robbie Fowler is taunting on the field of play. That element is what concerns me.

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2 hours ago, Loco Rojo said:

I love OTIB and how you can read the first page and see a sensible debate just knowing that soon it'll descend in to arguing. Then you go away and come back to page 7 and see just that. 

Discussions about homosexuality, like discussions about racial issues and prejudice are fraught with problems. 

There will always be someone taking the high moral ground and others trying to make valid (if occassionally ham-fisted) points that might not satisfy those with different view points.

Otib often descends into argument when fans have firmly held views on the club's management, transfers, tactics and selection so what chance is there with such a contentious subject? 

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

I disagree. Fear based on reality.

All of those things could and probably would happen. I mean look at the abuse Greame LeSaux got just for reading the Guardian!

Edit: Also it's not in the mind of the individual, it's a whole demographic. 

Don't forget that being openly gay in an office used to be stigmatized. On a building site it arguably still is. Eventually in society, a time comes when people feel brave enough to risk it, then others follow. Hopefully that time is coming.

No, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Absolutely; I'm not builidng an argument upon it but pointing out that majorities of one type can block out particular minorities and there is no inherent reason that the majority be either straight or white.

It is also an anecdote about a particular club at a particular time; I'm not saying they're all like that or even that this club still is as I don't wish any parents to stop their daughter playing football for that reason.

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Interesting chat. I know through having an Uncle (died some time ago) and a brother in law who is gay that things have changed a lot in society in the West for the better regarding tolerance. But for those thinking that the toxic side of alpha male culture has gone away on the terraces or locker room because "no one should care about what people do in their private lives" is veering towards utter naivete.

Just take a look at the attack on the two lesbians on the bus in the last month, let alone the countless other attacks that go unreported (that anecdotally I know of, let alone across society). However for it to change, it does need some martyrs to start the road of normalisation. Whoever it is I wish them the very best of luck and salute their bravery.

For those who aren't in the minorities, it also falls on our bravery to call out ******** behaviour when we see it.

On another note - those gingers, eh?

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14 minutes ago, newboy2 said:

Interesting chat. I know through having an Uncle (died some time ago) and a brother in law who is gay that things have changed a lot in society in the West for the better regarding tolerance. But for those thinking that the toxic side of alpha male culture has gone away on the terraces or locker room because "no one should care about what people do in their private lives" is veering towards utter naivete.

Just take a look at the attack on the two lesbians on the bus in the last month, let alone the countless other attacks that go unreported (that anecdotally I know of, let alone across society). However for it to change, it does need some martyrs to start the road of normalisation. Whoever it is I wish them the very best of luck and salute their bravery.

For those who aren't in the minorities, it also falls on our bravery to call out ******** behaviour when we see it.

On another note - those gingers, eh?

Great post buddy.

Yeah and if you look back at the history of football there were some dark times when being ginger was deemed completely unacceptable on the terraces. Some would sneak in with big hats or colour their hair with soot, but they were treated with brutality when caught. It took one man, the flame-haired diminutive midfielder Alan Ball, to be brave enough to take the lead, and by winning a world cup he normalised ginger hair for all that followed. Just imagine, there would have been no Paul Scholes, and the Scottish football leagues would only have half the teams...

PS: don't worry, some of my best friends are ginger...

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3 hours ago, EnderMB said:

You might not be aware of this, but it's not uncommon for gay people to be attacked. I've had a few mates be attacked, some for being gay, some for going to a gay club. This isn't the kind of thing that happened years ago either. It was only around a year ago that LGBTQ people stopped going to The Hatchet after one of the DJ's cornered a transgender person in the toilets and tried to get them to show him their cock.

It wasn't that long ago that two gay women were attacked on a bus in London because they wouldn't kiss for some teen thugs.

I know that SJW's have caused a lot of damage to minority rights by bitching on Twitter/Tumblr about nonsense issues, but knowing how hard it can be for people in this situation the default response should always be empathy.

And that last point is maybe the difference because my default response for everyone that's having a hard time is empathy but I look at the individual rather than the group.

I wasn't aware of those particular events but I'm also not aware of every football fan that gets attacked for the club they support, everyone that's been attacked in a nightclub or everyone that's attacked on public transport. The people in the wrong are clearly identified and can be dealt with by the law the same as they would be if it happened to a heterosexual person.

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3 hours ago, mozo said:

Yeah but then it gets to the point where fans are shouting homophobic abuse at you and even Robbie Fowler is taunting on the field of play. That element is what concerns me.

Initially I guess it might, but like racial abuse, it will quickly be unacceptable and dealt with by the authorities and the right minded fans that will be in the majority.

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1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

Initially I guess it might, but like racial abuse, it will quickly be unacceptable and dealt with by the authorities and the right minded fans that will be in the majority.

Yeah I think we're all pretty optimistic that it's just part of a process of integration. I mean, some people are so optimistic that they don't even realise there's a problem.

I think there are still a few stages to go through before sexuality is accepted unconditionally in football.

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9 hours ago, mozo said:

Yeah I think we're all pretty optimistic that it's just part of a process of integration. I mean, some people are so optimistic that they don't even realise there's a problem.

I think there are still a few stages to go through before sexuality is accepted unconditionally in football.

This is probably where I am. I just don't see it in my life, I went to college and Uni and although I knew gay people I didn't know them well enough to find out if they felt persecuted. 

I have worked in an office ever since for multiple companies but in all of those companies I haven't known anyone that was gay, I have worked with someone that was trans gender but the subject of them being trans gender didn't come up we just both had a job to do and got on with it (or not in their case because they weren't very good at their job). I just don't see that the LGBTQ+ community is persecuted in any way and I would be very surprised to see it happen. 

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I have read all 8 pages of this. I personally feel sexualities are hear nor there. I genuinely couldn't care who does what with who. But I can see this guy taking some real stick. So possibly he deserves some respect?? I can't see the potential of this being for money or getting in the squad. I say this to the people who can't see past this. Any player that scored 20 plus goals for us would be an idol regardless of owt!

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7 hours ago, Pezo said:

This is probably where I am. I just don't see it in my life, I went to college and Uni and although I knew gay people I didn't know them well enough to find out if they felt persecuted. 

I have worked in an office ever since for multiple companies but in all of those companies I haven't known anyone that was gay, I have worked with someone that was trans gender but the subject of them being trans gender didn't come up we just both had a job to do and got on with it (or not in their case because they weren't very good at their job). I just don't see that the LGBTQ+ community is persecuted in any way and I would be very surprised to see it happen. 

Yeah and uni and offices are two places that you expect less discrimination because they're abundant with political correctness. Obviously that's a different environment from a football team/terrace where it can be a bit more 'old-fashioned'.

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Weirdly, I think David Beckham had a positive impact on acceptance of homosexuality in football.  He was more than happy to be a gay icon and posed for Attitude magazine. It might not be the most sophisticated way to bridge the divide but fair play to him.

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Apologies if this has been said as I read a lot of the thread but not quite all. Unfortunately, we in Bristol especially - I would say - are painting a lot of the country with our city's wonderful progressive and liberal brush. Bristol is one of a handful of cities in the country where there's a pretty strong and open gay community, and one that is generally widely accepted amongst the rest of the city. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case, particularly - I hate to say it - in some of the more working class, northern towns and cities in the country. This is by no means a dig at anybody in particular or any particular town or city, but it cannot be denied that certain cities in the country - Bristol, large districts of London obviously, Manchester, Brighton, etc. are far more progressive and forward-moving than others. Obviously we don't know where this player plies his trade, but as much as many people like to believe homosexuality is now widely accepted, it still isn't always the case.

He probably feels the urge to speak to his chairman/manager/club for a number of reasons. Not least because he would become the first openly gay footballer of our time/ever (IIRC?); but also because there is still a minority (though unfortunately probably less minor than we'd like to think) that are still very against homosexuality and/or anything other than the typical straight white British man. There's still a deeper issue rooted in our country, and with the opportunity for increased freedom of speech through social media etc. more now than there ever has been, the idiots, the racists, the homophobes, they all shout the loudest. Fair play to the bloke for having the balls to come out openly and be proud about it.

For what it's worth, it's Bristol Pride today, and if anyone is looking for somewhere to have a few enjoyable bevs in the sun, there are many worse places you can go than to The Downs to support a charity and a community that, even in today's day and age, deserve to be celebrated.

You reds!

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10 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

Rightly so.

It was slightly tongue in cheek, but I was a bit serious. The vast majority of people theses days seem to - thankfully- have the attitude of 'I don't care about people's sexual preferences' but many of these same people seem to care very strongly about what other people eat.

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17 minutes ago, mozo said:

I noticed this team mentioned a few months ago. Again I am never sure on whether these things are positive or not. A bit like the Asian only leagues that can be found in cricket etc, although it’s good that people can get involved in a safe environment, I am not sure it helps with integration into the mainstream. 

The club should be applauded for their involvement though, women’s football is clearly a potential money spinner as it’s popularity grows, I can’t imagine they are in this for the money though.

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47 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I noticed this team mentioned a few months ago. Again I am never sure on whether these things are positive or not. A bit like the Asian only leagues that can be found in cricket etc, although it’s good that people can get involved in a safe environment, I am not sure it helps with integration into the mainstream. 

The club should be applauded for their involvement though, women’s football is clearly a potential money spinner as it’s popularity grows, I can’t imagine they are in this for the money though.

From a business perspective the club woud be prudent to reach out to as many groups as possible.

KFC don't do a vegan option because of their morality! 

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