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EnderMB

Coming out as homosexual in the Championship

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47 minutes ago, phantom said:

I was surprised how many of our England team are lesbians, is it easier to "come out" in the womens game compared to the mens?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/9251709/england-lionesses-partners-womens-world-cup/

Must admit am surprised there are as many in a same sex relationship, much higher than you would normally expect considering the percentage of people that are said to be gay.

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It matters nothing to me a person's sexual habits (within the law), the colour of skin, political and religious beliefs, gender or any other differences one can think of.

Respect others, acknowledge and comply with the laws of the country, work hard at one's chosen job, bring one's children up in the correct manner and with a sense of humour.

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3 minutes ago, RedDave said:

People are already targets.  I believe there is 20 hate crimes reported per day in the UK and allegedly 80% of hate crimes go unreported on top of that number. 

I can’t see the negatives here really. The first person would be a circus anyway however it was handled.  The person accusing them of doing it for money has baffled me.

Why do you think people will react negatively ?

I'm not saying they will Dave but it's certainly a possibility. Not everyone is as level headed as others. 

BTW, I didn't accuse the player of doing it for money, although that will inevitably follow, I just questioned the motivations of doing this in public.

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I was at my sons primary school summer concert yesterday. All of the classes get up and perform a song.  

A man near me asked his wife if one of the male teachers was gay.  Assuming this man isn’t thinking about asking the teacher out for a drink anytime soon, what reason does he have for asking that question? 

If the place hadn’t have been packed I’d have asked him myself. People might think this is a non story but it goes to show there is a long way to go for homosexuality to be regarded as being as normal as heterosexuality 

2 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm not saying they will Dave but it's certainly a possibility. Not everyone is as level headed as others. 

BTW, I didn't accuse the player of doing it for money, although that will inevitably follow, I just questioned the motivations of doing this in public.

Fair enough.  There has been a lot of talk that this account is fake. I really hope it isn’t. 

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And lets not forget that it is illegal to be gay in 70 countries - roughly a third of the world's nations. It's technically punishable by death in 12 of those. 

 

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Absolute non story.

Right minded people ceased considering individual's sexual orientation decades ago.

What is bothersome is why would the mystery man think his orientation might impact squad selection or pre-season training? Can't wait for the 'dropped not because I'd lost form rather because I was gay' excuse. The 'only two know'  line,  don't delude yourself son.  Or might it be the case The Gay Footballer and his supporters end up showing mock abhorrence when nobody gives a flying when he makes his disclosure?

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I get that for this player, it’s a big step - but as others have said in this thread, I really don’t care and this is being made into a bigger issue than it needs to be. 

I get the “awareness” aspect and if it enables others to be more open & happy then that’s a good thing - but why are people “hoping it means more come out”..? It’s up to them, surely..?! 

Come out (or don’t), do so without fear - be aware that some tossers might give you a bit of stick for it. End of. 

This hyping it up is just ridiculous and totally counter productive, imo. 

 

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8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Absolute non story.

Right minded people ceased considering individual's sexual orientation decades ago.

What is bothersome is why would the mystery man think his orientation might impact squad selection or pre-season training? Can't wait for the 'dropped not because I'd lost form rather because I was gay' excuse. The 'only two know'  line,  don't delude yourself son.  Or might it be the case The Gay Footballer and his supporters end up showing mock abhorrence when nobody gives a flying when he makes his disclosure?

Blimey.  Point missed I think.

You also say nobody cares and then slag him off for something he hasn’t done!

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1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said:

I get that for this player, it’s a big step - but as others have said in this thread, I really don’t care and this is being made into a bigger issue than it needs to be. 

I get the “awareness” aspect and if it enables others to be more open & happy then that’s a good thing - but why are people “hoping it means more come out”..? It’s up to them, surely..?! 

Come out (or don’t), do so without fear - be aware that some tossers might give you a bit of stick for it. End of. 

This hyping it up is just ridiculous and totally counter productive, imo. 

 

But they are fearful.  How do you suggest they become less fearful ?  

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10 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Absolute non story.

Right minded people ceased considering individual's sexual orientation decades ago.

What is bothersome is why would the mystery man think his orientation might impact squad selection or pre-season training? Can't wait for the 'dropped not because I'd lost form rather because I was gay' excuse. The 'only two know'  line,  don't delude yourself son.  Or might it be the case The Gay Footballer and his supporters end up showing mock abhorrence when nobody gives a flying when he makes his disclosure?

Its not the right minded people gay people are fearful of though is it. 

Unfortunately I think a fair amount of the wrong minded people probably sit amongst us in the stands.

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There are clearly people who say they don’t care but secretly do care and wish not to be reminded that some people are gay.

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Just now, RedDave said:

But they are fearful.  How do you suggest they become less fearful ?  

How do you know..? 

Its the same as any “dilemma” in life. “Am I better off telling people or not?” Make your choice that best suits you. Maybe other gay players don’t want to come out. Maybe some already have (admittedly that’s doubtful, or there’d be leaks) 

I’ve said before - I genuinely think there probably aren’t that many. As with other sports, the genetic make up (testoerone levels) call it what you will, to reach the higher levels of professional sport probably mean there is a disproportionate representation of homosexuals in the sporting sector, than in society generally and other industries such as showbusiness, arts and less physical vocations. 

Yes, I’m fully aware that doesn’t come across in the way that I’ve meant it..! To simplify.. are there as many gay Scaffolders, Brick layers and professional sportsmen as there are gay actors, nurses, musicians or clerical works..? Maybe, but personally I’d guess not. 

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25 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Absolute non story.

Right minded people ceased considering individual's sexual orientation decades ago.

What is bothersome is why would the mystery man think his orientation might impact squad selection or pre-season training? Can't wait for the 'dropped not because I'd lost form rather because I was gay' excuse. The 'only two know'  line,  don't delude yourself son.  Or might it be the case The Gay Footballer and his supporters end up showing mock abhorrence when nobody gives a flying when he makes his disclosure?

Because football is often about fitting in. Players do get bombed out of teams for being unpopular. Players undermine others. Squads have cliques. Players left out for whoever will look to undermine that individual. That is normal squad dynamics.  

Players will hide elements of their personality, their background, their culture to fit in because they feel it is their interest to do so, because it often is. 

Squads can be lonely places v not being one of the lads.

And on this goes .. 

Edited by Cowshed
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1 hour ago, RedDave said:

Regarding the OP, city fans will certainly not be any different to other fans. He will get abuse I am sure. Maybe not every game but he will.  

There are racist city fans and there will be homophobic city fans

For those questioning why make a big deal of it and they don’t care what sexual preference footballers have...you are missing the point.  Footballers coming out will continue to normalise homosexuality. Progress needs to keep happening to make everyone see it as normal.  The more celebrities and footballers that come out the better for this end

Homosexuality is perfectly normal

There are, and there are some that post on this forum. I remember a thread 10-15 years ago about chants at Brighton fans and there were some tasteless comments made. Things have changed a lot in that time, and these people won't air their views anymore because they know they will (rightfully) be put in their place. They are doubtless still around though, which is why I made my earlier post.. Bigots NOT welcome at BCFC.


 

Edited by Wanderingred

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You only need to look at the amount of casual sexist 'jokes' that have been passed off on this very forum regarding the Women's World Cup over recent months as an indication there are still plenty of dinosaurs in our support (and every teams support no doubt). There is far less of an appetite in current society to accept anything homophobic so I'd expect few derogatory comments about it. But that shouldn't fool anyone - there will sadly be many people not particularly happy if it is a player at their club.

I wish this player all the luck in the world. Hopefully it is just the start of every player (and person) being accepted for who they are.

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8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

How do you know..? 

Its the same as any “dilemma” in life. “Am I better off telling people or not?” Make your choice that best suits you. Maybe other gay players don’t want to come out. Maybe some already have (admittedly that’s doubtful, or there’d be leaks) 

I’ve said before - I genuinely think there probably aren’t that many. As with other sports, the genetic make up (testoerone levels) call it what you will, to reach the higher levels of professional sport probably mean there is a disproportionate representation of homosexuals in the sporting sector, than in society generally and other industries such as showbusiness, arts and less physical vocations. 

Yes, I’m fully aware that doesn’t come across in the way that I’ve meant it..! To simplify.. are there as many gay Scaffolders, Brick layers and professional sportsmen as there are gay actors, nurses, musicians or clerical works..? Maybe, but personally I’d guess not. 

Pretty obvious it’s driven by fear in a lot of cases. Funny how 100% of gay footballers haven’t come out.  Don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

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It'd be nice if this happened, nobody made a big deal about it either way and life went on as normal.  Whether someone like willies or not isn't really relevant to football.

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5 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Pretty obvious it’s driven by fear in a lot of cases. Funny how 100% of gay footballers haven’t come out.  Don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

Yes, possibly. Maybe it’s driven by privacy as much as fear..? 

I fail to see the need for a big mysterious media campaign. (I do understand the “awareness” aspect) but I don’t think this helps, personally. 

For me, it makes it all appear a bit “them & us” whereas the whole point is surely that it’s just people being who they are..? So just go out holding hands with your significant other. People will soon realise. If people then deem that to be newsworthy, then that’s sad for them. 

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1 hour ago, CotswoldRed said:

I think the issue is as much about team mates. 

Possibly true. Nobody has mentioned that it is a bit different to sharing a desk in an office. They share changing rooms. Phil Neville can’t visit a women’s team’s changing room, so sensitivities still exist in that way. There could still be sensitivities for players changing with gay men, as there might sharing a changing room with women. I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

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19 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Blimey.  Point missed I think.

You also say nobody cares and then slag him off for something he hasn’t done!

Not at all.

If I've a criticism it follows a not unfamiliar pattern of homosexuals focussing on  'what ifs'?

Why should his being homosexual or announcing his being homisexual have to do with his pre season training or whether he's good eniught fir the squad. Unless that is he suspects or perhaps hopes there will be an impact? Why might that be? One might ask why he thinks it's such a big deal in the first place to have to publicise his sexual predilection? 

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

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Was only a few years back that Brighton fans were challenged with 'does your boyfriend know you're here?' as a chant.

No wonder gay footballers are reluctant to want to come out, and any that do, would like the process to be carefully managed.

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I think people often misunderstand what not coming out means. Especially if you are famous. It doesn’t simply mean not making a public announcement that you are gay. It also means:

1. Not being able to talk to your work colleagues or friends about the person you are in a relationship with

2. Not being able to tell anecdotes about your personal life or make references to places you have been and things you have done with your partner.

3.  Not being able to go on holiday or to restaurants with your partner for fear of being spotted and people finding out.

4. Not being able to ask people out without a fear they will tell other people about your sexuality.

5. Constantly avoiding talking about people you fancy or deliberately concealing their gender if you do.

”Not coming out” if you are a footballer is not simply not making a big deal of your sexuality. It is lying about or hiding every aspect of your personal life for fear of discovery. Of course, people should have the choice but I am skeptical about how many gay footballers who conceal their sexuality and avoid being seen out and about with the person they are in a relationship do so because they is how they want to live their lives.

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20 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Because football is often about fitting in. Players do get bombed out of teams for being unpopular.

Which presupposes being homosexual makes it difficult for one to fit in or gain popularity. Really? 

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5 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Possibly true. Nobody has mentioned that it is a bit different to sharing a desk in an office. They share changing rooms. Phil Neville can’t visit a women’s team’s changing room, so sensitivities still exist in that way. There could still be sensitivities for players changing with gay men, as there might sharing a changing room with women. I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Years ago I had this hypothetical conversation with a team mate (only local football), where he stated he wouldn’t want to share a changing room with a gay man because “he might be eyeing me up”.

I did point out that he didn’t fancy every woman he saw, so it was a touch arrogant to suggest that because his teammate liked men he was bound to be his “type”

The likelihood is that whoever this is, his teammates already have a fair idea - but that doesn’t mean they’re without prejudice as the above illustrates.

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8 minutes ago, Leveller said:

There could still be sensitivities for players changing with gay men,

....and just what do you think might happen #Moonlanding

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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

Has anyone ever tried to beat the shit out of you because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Has anyone ever called you unnatural or a freak because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Have you ever feared your family and friends will disown you due to your attraction to the opposite sex?  Do you see people in other countries imprisoned or executed for their attraction to the opposite sex?

Perhaps these are all reasons why it is a very different thing?

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Which presupposes being homosexual makes it difficult for one to fit in or gain popularity. Really? 

The last 2000 years of human history?

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1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

I really don't get the 'big deal' here TBH. I go to football to watch the football, not worry about the sexuality of individuals.

While I wish the 'gay footballer' well, I genuinely couldn't give a monkeys.

I apologise if that's not PC but why the pullava?  He's gay, right, let's get on with the football. 

Yes, but this isn’t about you, is it?  This is about whether a sizeable proportion of society can be at ease in being themselves within the context of football, given that being gay isn’t just about who you go to bed with but actually about who you are.  As someone involved with safeguarding, there is still a strain of homophobia running through football,  and I know because I’ve had to handle more than one case of alleged homophobia at youth level in the past season.

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10 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Which presupposes being homosexual makes it difficult for one to fit in or gain popularity. Really? 

Yes because being different to the group makes it so.

Football and football players are conservative. Great emphasis is put on the group, shared mindset. 

I knew a player who hid being vegetarian from his team mates till he stopped playing. He thought he would be looked upon as weird and soft otherwise. He would have been at least the butt of jokes if he revealed he was not as carnivorous and as normally red blooded as the rest.. 

Squads are not all sweatness and light. Squads have hierarchies an shared behaviours and it is normal not to want to be at the bottom of it. 

Edited by Cowshed

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13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Not at all.

If I've a criticism it follows a not unfamiliar pattern of homosexuals focussing on  'what ifs'?

Why should his being homosexual or announcing his being homisexual have to do with his pre season training or whether he's good eniught fir the squad. Unless that is he suspects or perhaps hopes there will be an impact? Why might that be? One might ask why he thinks it's such a big deal in the first place to have to publicise his sexual predilection? 

Having witnessed at first hand this week's Pride march one really has to ask what the agenda is these days?  I've never felt the need to wear a badge or T-Shirt proclaiming how much I like the opposite sex, or is this trait reserved only for homosexuals?

I think your posts portray someone who doesn’t get it at all and I don’t think a forum is the best place for me or someone else to explain. Not sure if you know any gay people but if you do I would ask them why Pride is still so important and why footballers coming out is important as well. 

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Has anyone ever tried to beat the shit out of you because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Has anyone ever called you unnatural or a freak because of your attraction to the opposite sex? Have you ever feared your family and friends will disown you due to your attraction to the opposite sex?  Do you see people in other countries imprisoned or executed for their attraction to the opposite sex?

Perhaps these are all reasons why it is a very different thing?

The last 2000 years of human history?

Sadly this thread is yet another reminder of how far we still need to go. 

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5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

It is lying about or hiding every aspect of your personal life for fear of discovery.

Fear of discovering what exactly, who you are as opposed to somebody you're pretending to be? To which the simple response on 'discovery' is always : " Yes I am and what of it?" End of.

Contrast the mega high profile entertainment sector that has no such issue, where the percentage of homosexual professionals is far greater than the general populous. Clearly not impacting careers there, so why should it in football? There's an argument to say it's exactly the type of organised 'disclosure' The Gay Footballer seeks that's holding others back from simply living who they are.

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7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yes, but this isn’t about you, is it?  This is about whether a sizeable proportion of society can be at ease in being themselves within the context of football, given that being gay isn’t just about who you go to bed with but actually about who you are.  As someone involved with safeguarding, there is still a strain of homophobia running through football,  and I know because I’ve had to handle more than one case of alleged homophobia at youth level in the past season.

Fair comment TDP, it's most certainy NOT about me but the greater good of the game, I'm just a normal hard working fellow.

Why football though? Other high priority celebrities and sportsmen have 'come out' (I don't like that phrase TBH) so why is there still such an issue in football?

Why this is good, I really don't understand as, yes, it will highlight the issue, but IMHO this could do more damage than good, especially with the individual making such a high profile admission. I can see the gutter press going after anyone else in the game, maybe even higher profile and that cannot be good.

I do agree with your points but feel this isn't the way to go about it in the media eye, that's my point.

Edited by Ska Junkie
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4 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Its not even an issue in 2019. Yawn

Gay abuse in the streets on the daily is an issue 

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

Gay abuse in the streets on the daily is an issue 

Societies issue then, not professional footballs? 

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4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

different to the group

Different to the group - what, humankind?

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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Fear of discovering what exactly, who you are as opposed to somebody you're pretending to be? To which the simple response on 'discovery' is always : " Yes I am and what of it?" End of.

Contrast the mega high profile entertainment sector that has no such issue, where the percentage of homosexual professionals is far greater than the general populous. Clearly not impacting careers there, so why should it in football? There's an argument to say it's exactly the type of organised 'disclosure' The Gay Footballer seeks that's holding others back from simply living who they are.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/jussie-smollett-attack-latest-chicago-police-racist-photos-homophobic-empire-a8755826.html%3famp

It is a problem for gay actors as well just so you know 

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2 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Societies issue then, not professional footballs? 

Of course it’s societies issue. Football is part of society. 

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Just now, RedDave said:

Of course it’s societies issue. Football is part of society. 

It was an entertainment sport the last time I looked and not a political toy WTGR Dave. 

 

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4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I think your posts portray someone who doesn’t get it at all and I don’t think a forum is the best place for me or someone else to explain. Not sure if you know any gay people but if you do I would ask them why Pride is still so important and why footballers coming out is important as well. 

Thanks for telling me what I get and do not. What I know is I have friends and workmates many of whom are homosexual. I do not have 'homosexual friends and workmates' and that's the difference it appears between your and my vision of the world.

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2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

As Smollett is widely alleged to have staged the attack to facilitate a pay rise, not the best example but no doubt it goes on

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Thanks for telling me what I get and do not. What I know is I have friends and workmates many of whom are homosexual. I do not have 'homosexual friends and workmates' and that's the difference it appears between your and my vision of the world.

Ask them then.  Love how you quoted me something I didn’t say! 

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As Smollett is widely alleged to have staged the attack to facilitate a pay rise, not the best example but no doubt it goes on

Unfortunately there are many examples I could show

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/09/southampton-theatre-cancels-lgbt-play-performances-after-actors-attacked

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

Ask them then.  Love how you quoted me something I didn’t say! 

Ask them what exactly?

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13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Different to the group - what, humankind?

You are most likely being obtuse .. And you did not acknowledge the point made about group dynamics.

Groups have shared behaviours. What are the shared group behaviours of football players? Homosexuality is not a norm to these groups. 

Revealing that sexuality, or introducing it to the above could be problematic. The whys posters are revealing in this thread.

 

Edited by Cowshed

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